John David and Abbie 5: Pancakes with a Side of Wedding

[HurricaneBells]

1. Frozen Smile did nothing but answer the question/s and nicely at that, so its not like she is the one getting her knickers in a knot.

2. For me personally, i had no issue with the question itself ( i totally understand why insiders would be questioned here) but the rude way it was asked. It had already been spoken of pages before in that thread and we pretty much encouraged her to come back and tell us what she was comfortable sharing and when she did, BOOM, She didn't just pop up randomly on the day to out them. Now, apparently, if she talks about them in a snarky manner, its wrong, Talks about them nicely...  its still wrong. No response she gave seemed to make some of you happy. 

3. She has already said  its for her to own should the Dugs ever find out and yes it is. This affects no one here. Although, i assume its the membership here that would be the issue NOT the little she has respectfully said. 

4. What is it she told us? The date? No. The venue. No. Anything substantial? No. Did she drive past the church and take a shady photo for Pickles (well that i dont know, hopefully not!), no. This is not the same as the deluded stories ruth told and what happened there. If you dont believe her, dont. Its not exactly life altering information and that bitch Pickles is where we got all the info from anyway. 

5. Some of us are genuinely tired of seeing threads hijacked by people harping on about the same things page after page (not standard thread drift but actually harping on their opinion) and this is the second wedding thread in weeks where its happened. I just wanted to see a dress and snark a little on submitting to a man and being traded like a damn mule and see what food they ate. Nevermind!

Yes, i will move along. This is the first chance i have had in days to get on here and write #deadparrotsaremyspeciality

 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

7 hours ago, FrozenSmile said:

I just hope they have as many (or as few) as they want & agree on. But i’m sure that this falls under the submission umbrella, so she’d just have to submit. ?

Or she could hide her contraband birth control in the laundry room.  He will never find it there. Didn’t JD say he can’t move into the house he owns because in TTH he gets his laundry done? 

[Alice in Fundieland]

4 hours ago, MoonFace said:

And by the way, did I miss mention of how AMAZING the first kiss was - or are they skipping that because maybe they did have a first kiss (GASP!)before the wedding?   

 

If I remember correctly (it’s only been a few hours since I watched the video, but I’ve had an emotional day), Abbie said her favorite parts of the wedding were the first song and John’s “tender kiss.” Then she said she also liked everything in between. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, Alice in Fundieland said:

John’s “tender kiss.”

Really?  I'd rather watch the Arndts tenderly bathing a pumpkin*.

*TM  @QuiverFullofBooks

[Sky with diamonds]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

She is the female version of Dwreck. When he first came on the scene we were all hopeful.... 

I disagree. We don't know if she's the female version of Derick. We've barely seen her onscreen. 

If she ends up like Derick...time will tell. I hope she's nowhere close to being like Derick. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, emmeline said:

It varies wildly in my experience. I know women who fed exclusively and on demand and got their period back at 6-8 weeks post partum, and others who got it back at 18 months or 2 years. Most commonly among the women I know ovulation has started between 6 and 12 months as baby starts on solids and spaces feeds out more. Introducing solids seems to be a trigger for a lot of women to get their periods back. There are also variations in whether when ovulation restarts it is 'functional' or not - ie whether the woman can actually get pregnant or not. It's not uncommon for a woman not to actually be able to get pregnant for her first few cycles. Kellymom has a really good article about how it works. 

It's about as effective as using condoms perfectly. For me, I felt pretty relaxed about it before starting my babies on solids, and a little less relaxed after that. 

It has a list of "if" that is a meter long, no way it is comparable to condoms. And luckily I didn't trust "professionals" like you when I was breastfeeding daughter every two hours (yes even at night cos she was a sucker like that, we co-slept or I would have died) and got my period back when she was 3 months old. I had not introduced solids and I didn't want another pregnancy. Luckily I trusted condoms over bogus advice.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

It has a list of "if" that is a meter long, no way it is comparable to condoms. And luckily I didn't trust "professionals" like you when I was breastfeeding daughter every two hours (yes even at night cos she was a sucker like that, we co-slept or I would have died) and got my period back when she was 3 months old. I had not introduced solids and I didn't want another pregnancy. Luckily I trusted condoms over bogus advice.

Ummm....how did she negate anything you said? She said in her experience women get their period back anywhere from six weeks to 2 years, with an average around 6-12 months. She didn’t say that exclusive breastfeeding was 100% effective.  NOTHING is 100% effective. Condoms aren’t. Even sterilization isn’t. 

[Granwych]

13 hours ago, snickers34 said:

Agree, plus the nice thing about being a nurse is that they are in such high demand. She has lots of options even within her career - she could work part-time or pick up weekend shifts if she wanted to. It doesn't need to be 100% family or 100% career - she could do a bit of both.

 LPNs aren't  in demand as much as RNs.  Abbie could work part-time, but day shifts are prized and not always available unless on a per diem basis.  That said, at least she does have a marketable skill and hopefully will be able to keep up with continuing educational units and such.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Ummm....how did she negate anything you said? She said in her experience women get their period back anywhere from six weeks to 2 years, with an average around 6-12 months. She didn’t say that exclusive breastfeeding was 100% effective.  NOTHING is 100% effective. Condoms aren’t. Even sterilization isn’t. 

Ok, let's do some math. She says that while exclusively breastfeeding you can have your period back anywhere between 6 weeks and 2 years. Let's take the worst case scenario, let's say a woman gets her period back at 6 weeks post partum. She highly probably ovulated somewhere in the two previous weeks. Let's say that she has an average cycle and she ovulated at 4 weeks post partum, considering that having intercourses in the first 4 weeks is definitely not recommended, this would put the effectiveness of this sort of "birth control" for this woman to a level much lower than 96% as there would be no safe period for her between the 4 weeks mark and her period. You may rightly say that most women don't get their period back so soon, but the thing is: since the vast vast majority of women have no idea of when they are going to ovulate, if a woman really wants to prevent a pregnancy, she can't bet on when she'll ovulate and get her period back, she can't bet she won't be the unfortunate one who gets her period back at 6 weeks. There are too many variables to state that breastfeeding as bc has a 98% effectiveness. It's like saying that having sex when you're not fertile won't lead to a pregnancy, that's great except that most women can't with 98% accuracy know when they to go back to ovulating post partum.

The comparison with barrier methods is ridiculous because a condom is a condom whenever in your cycle and whenever in your cycle it has a 96% effectiveness, as such it's a way safer bet for a woman who isn't ready for a oops pregnancy.

[PainfullyAware]

Probability is a lot more confusing then you would think  

Condoms have been studied in women who are ovulating regularly, so we know the level of contraceptive efficacy and risk of getting pregnant a woman has when she uses a condom postpartum - if she hasn't started ovulating it's 0% and if she started ovulating it's 96% (4% chance each cycle of getting pregnant). In contrast, if breastfeeding delays ovulation your risk of getting pregnant is 0% but if you do start ovulating your risk of getting pregnant is 25% each cycle. Since condoms are effective in both scenarios (whether your period returns or not, they are therefore significantly more effective than breastfeeding overall. Condoms and breastfeeding would be the most effective at preventing pregnancy postpartum, followed by using condoms but not breastfeeding, followed by breastfeeding alone, followed by not breastfeeding and not using condoms.

It comes down to the degree of risk you are willing to assume. If you really don't want to get pregnant in the months following delivery, the best option is to avoid sex!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 minutes ago, PainfullyAware said:

Probability is a lot more confusing then you would think it seems like you can't compare the contraceptive  efficacy of breastfeeding between women when the return of cycles postpartum is

Condoms have been studied in women who are ovulating regularly, so we know the level of contraceptive efficacy and risk of getting pregnant a woman has when she uses a condom postpartum - if she hasn't started ovulating it's 0% and if she started ovulating it's 96% (4% chance each cycle of getting pregnant). In contrast, if breastfeeding delays ovulation your risk of getting pregnant is 0% but if you do start ovulating your risk of getting pregnant is 25% each cycle. Since condoms are effective in both scenarios they are therefore significantly more effective than breastfeeding overall. Condoms and breastfeeding would be the most effective at preventing pregnancy postpartum, followed by using condoms but not breastfeeding, followed by breastfeeding alone, followed by not breastfeeding and not using condoms.

It comes down to the degree of risk you are willing to assume. If you really don't want to get pregnant in the months following delivery, the best option is to avoid sex!

Exactly. All this to say that stating that exclusively breastfeeding on demand has 98% effectiveness as birth control is simply wrong as it can't be applied to all women (not even most women) for the whole post partum period before the first cycle. Mainly because of that first ovulation that you can't really foresee.

[Rachel333]

That 98% figure actually has research behind it. Here's where it seems to come from. Of note, they're also only claiming that particular number for the first 6 months.

I was looking it up recently after seeing it discussed in a historical context. One person was claiming that at a population level extended exclusive breastfeeding would lead to lower fertility rates and the second person was saying that because it didn't apply to every woman then it couldn't have a big effect on a population. I disagreed with the second argument, as just because there are some women who get pregnant while breastfeeding doesn't mean that the effects wouldn't be noticeable on a population level. 

Anyway, depending on what you're talking about, it's not wrong to say that breastfeeding on demand has 98% effectiveness. That doesn't mean, however, that a particular woman has a 98% chance of not conceiving while breastfeeding on demand.

[Markie]

So, any pics of the bridesmaids dresses yet? Who were the wedding attendants? Where does everyone think John and Abbie will honeymoon? 

[HermioneSparrow]

11 minutes ago, Markie said:

So, any pics of the bridesmaids dresses yet? Who were the wedding attendants? Where does everyone think John and Abbie will honeymoon? 

I think is gonna be in the U.S., JD will fly to the destination... Maybe florida???

[zcccrv]

I wish they'd gone with warmer tones, I think it would have suited both of their complexions better.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

8 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I think the difference is that i this culture a male spouse can lead the whole family off the rails, whereas wives are, theoretically, just following the lead. Abbie might not be god's gift to mankind but she's also unlikely to drag JD around the world on a series of ill-advised "missions"-- even if she wanted to.

And if they did want to, they have actual skills, putting them miles ahead of Jill and Derick, John Schrader, or Timothy Rodrigues in what is apparently the most glamorous profession in the fundie world.

[Firebird]

Of course piloting is the most glamorous profession  in the fundie world. Kirk Cameron played a pilot in the left behind series, and many famous missionaries had their pilot licenses to better reach the unreachable!

[habert]

15 hours ago, freedomfromfrumpers said:

TLC posted their "thank you" video and a much nicer still shot from it ... 

http://www.tlc.com/tlcme/tlcme-videos/hear-from-the-newlyweds-john-david-duggar-marries-abbie-burnett/

I literally can’t believe that’s John of all people. John can’t give him a second take David Duggar. All his videos with Abbie have been cute and not awkward. It’s like he went from the least filmable person in the world to the most out of his entire awkward family. 

[VelociRapture]

@HurricaneBells At the risk of continuing this discussion:

The best method for changing a conversation you’re sick of is to simply do that - write a comment about another topic you’re interested in. If others are interested they’ll chime in to respond and the conversation will shift. If not? Then you can skip over the comments you find annoying or just avoid a specific thread for a while. 

And yes, I get that you haven’t been on in a few days and I get it’s annoying when you aren’t enjoying a conversation. I have zero issues with posters chiming in on already finished discussions if they want to. But the quickest and easiest way to stop a conversation you find annoying is to simply change the topic to something else or avoid that specific conversation for a bit. Complaining about a topic being discussed isn’t going to help and jistruns the risk of reigniting the discussion that was so obnoxious to begin with.

(And yes, I’m sure you know all that. Others may not though and your comment gave a good opportunity for a reminder about that.)

All that said... let’s see how I’m doing on my predictions:

Someone posted information about the wedding? Check.

Criticizing them for their wedding choices? I don’t think this has happened yet beyond the whole “Is Abbie actually into planes/Is she secretly the second coming of Derick Dillard” conversation. This’ll probably get worse once the actual details are released via magazine or TLC mini webisode thing. 

- People chiming in to compliment them? Check.

- People defending them who somehow manage to offend someone else? Not exactly, but that HAS happened - to a mild extent - in the two thread drifts this has sparked so far. 

- A skirmish that turned into a debate? Double check.

- Someone getting their feelings hurt? I don’t think that’s really happened. Give it Time abd it will though. 

- Jokes being made? I’d be very disappointed in all of us if this hadn’t happened yet. 

- Agreeing to never discuss X, Y, or Z on the site again before immediately forgetting when the next wedding occurs? Not yet. 

I’d give this wedding discussion an overall grade of B- so far. It’s passing, but nothing spectacular. 

[VBOY9977]

I really want them to come to Spain on their honeymoon, specifically Madrid since I’m living here this semester. It will be the closest I’ve been to a Duggar! But realistically I think maybe they’ll go to a warmer weather.

I was in Vienna in August and all I could think of was Josiah and Lauren. Man, these people have taken over my life ??

[Jana814]

6 minutes ago, habert said:

I literally can’t believe that’s John of all people. John can’t give him a second take David Duggar. All his videos with Abbie have been cute and not awkward. It’s like he went from the least filmable person in the world to the most out of his entire awkward family. 

Of all the relationships that I have seen the Duggars have done.  John-David and Abbie have been my favorite one to follow. 

[littlemommy]

30 minutes ago, Firebird said:

Of course piloting is the most glamorous profession  in the fundie world. Kirk Cameron played a pilot in the left behind series, and many famous missionaries had their pilot licenses to better reach the unreachable!

I have no opinions on anything in this thread except this. I read that while horrible series and have hate-watched every movie version, and Kirk Cameron was not the pilot. He was the plucky, baby-Christian, surprise-virgin reporter, Buck. Because he always bucked authority, ya know? Except God’s, I guess.

Okay, whew, glad to clear that up! Can’t handle any false “Left Behind” info out there!

[Firebird]

@littlemommy

That's right! I forgot about Bucky. Thanks for clearing that up. I can't believe I forgot my left behind info. I never really got into it too much. I read a few books as they were always in the church lending library and were infinitely better than reading Christian romance. I swear that stuff can be smuttier than those Harlequin Romance novels.  There were actually a few secular romance novels I have enjoyed (Don't tell my husband. Hehehehe)

[JermajestyDuggar]

There is a huge difference between Derrick and Abbie. I can’t believe anyone is even comparing the two. The biggest reason why Abbie won’t turn into Derrick is because he’s a convert. He’s the only one in Duggarville that didn’t grow up fundie. He grew up Christian but not fundie. That’s what makes him different and it’s likely that’s what makes him a complete moron about going on twitter rants and having this loud mouthed zeal for his beliefs. Converts are very often loud and proud when new to their beliefs. He’s like the stereotypical guy new to CrossFit. He constantly talks about it. Derrick also has unresolved issues from his father’s passing that I won’t get into right now. 

Basically I am saying Abbie will not become Derrick. The Burnett family had a blog for years. She knows how to be fundie with gross beliefs and not show her ass constantly. If you want to know how Abbie will act, she will probably be like the other born and bred fundie females that married into the Duggar family. 

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

Just wanted to say my mom got pregnant with me six months after giving birth to my brother. My parents call me a "pleasant surprise," which we all know is code word for accident. Lol.

Story goes that my mom told my dad she was pregnant and his first words were, "How the hell did that happen?"