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  1. I am terminally ill. Not one person has taken a picture of me since diagnosis. Not a single one. No one has even asked. For that, I am extremely grateful. I do not look like myself. I look like I am sick, which I am. I've lost a disturbing amount of weight and my face is sunken. I didn't even have to ask anyone not to take or share pictures of me. They just don't, In fact, no one even mentions me on their social media. The inherently respect me as a human being, not as fodder for their attention. My uncle recently died and he suffered a long time before finally succumbing. Not a single person mentioned his situation anywhere on social media or shared any pictures of him. It was years and everyone respected him for the entire time. When you truly love someone, you respect them as an autonomous human being and do not use them for your own means. And, if I had a relative in a care home and people like the Caldwells came in, I'd be pitching a fit. It's not about them, it's about the residents. If they can't respect ALL the residents, they do not belong there. Period.
    111 points
  2. I've told my story of my child who molested younger children. I've said I clung to the idea the child was innocent for a long time. However, after the evidence convinced me that said child was actually involved, (they didn't say guilty, they said involved) it still took me a while to switch from "innocent" to "let's do what we can to get this child on the straight and narrow". What was in between? For me, grief and mourning. It couldn't last long, because Mr. Four and I had to support the recovery. Anna has a lot further to go on De Nial... and it's a slow moving barge she's on.
    63 points
  3. This is all very important. They knew he was doing it, at least part of the time, they just didn't know what it was that he was doing, or how to talk about it or make him stop. He groomed them, to put it simply. He sits beside you to help you with some schoolwork or read along the bible with you or share your hymn book, and puts his arm around you to get close enough to see. Normal, right? Except his hand just happens to end up on your breast. Surely he doesn't realize it, right? It's just an accident. Same thing, this time you're sitting cross-legged. Your skirt is covering everything. He casually puts an arm around you and his hand just happens to end up between your legs. Over your skirt. He's idly moving his hand. Surely he doesn't realize where his hand ended up, right? Just an accident. How could someone you love and trust do something bad to you? Is it really even bad? It's over your clothes. Maybe he doesn't realize he's even touching you there. And on top of that - it's explainable. It could be accidental. It's just touching, just over clothing. Does that even count as being molested? Was it your fault for not realizing it wasn't an accident? Couldn't you have done something like stepped away or made up an excuse to leave? Why didn't you? Why did you share a book with him the second time, after he touched you once already? (Because you didn't realize it was wrong, and rationalized it away, anyway.) On the plus side, they did tell their parents and SOMETHING was done about it. Not enough, clearly. They weren't protected. But they do seem to have been believed, at least. Lots of victims don't tell anyone. Because they know the response would be "Well, why were you alone with him?" or "Why didn't you tell him to stop?" or "Well if you just hadn't let him share with you..." and things like that. They know they'll get blamed, subtly. They didn't tell soon enough, they didn't stop things, they were the ones who asked him for help with work, they were the ones who wanted to show him a picture in that book... And often? Those touches described above? The victim rationalizes them away, basically forgets about them, and aren't bothered by them. UNTIL something more happens. Something worse. Something that can't be rationalized, that makes it clear in retrospect that those were NOT accidental, that they were actually molested. And then... what? It's been a long time since those first touches. And they didn't stop him after those because they didn't realize what was going on. So now they are even more likely to get the "Well why did you let him..." questions. I'm glad they told. I didn't. Still haven't. I still don't want to hear "well, if you only hadn't..."
    60 points
  4. That’s her disguise: “Hey, isn’t that Anna Duggar?” ”Can’t be; she’s wearing that which pertaineth unto a man.”
    60 points
  5. I think some functions of government should never be privatized. Like the police force. If someone is working as an agent of the state including power and responsibility for use of force, they should be hired for and paid by and be responsible to the state. I feel the same way about prisons. It's the state that incarcerates, and it's the state that should retain full responsibility for the prisoners. I deeply disagree with making profits off of prisoners in any way, shape or form. That's just motive for the state (and private companies) to keep people incarcerated. It's not hard to draw a historical line between the modern for-profit prisons and the plantations.
    58 points
  6. Me too. I can remember as a girl being told not made a fuss about anything. If my hamburger came to the table at a restaurant and it was rare when I wanted well done, you can't say anything to the waiter. And my folks weren't mean about it---they weren't yelling "just eat it!!" It was just that they didn't want to 'cause any trouble.' I also remember having my hair cut/styled and being burned by the styling tools and not saying anything---or "is the water too hot?" "No, it's fine" (even thought it wasn't.) In fact, I just had my hair cut yesterday and the shampoo lady put the bib thingy on too tight around my neck. I am a grown-ass woman and still didn't say anything. WTF? I realize that my examples may sound silly, especially compared to the topics being discussed, but my point is that being taught to react like that set up a pattern of behavior that lead to trouble later--over and over. Being groped on an airplane at 18 by a drunk guy and not doing anything about it. And I won't go on for fear of triggering, but you get the idea. Thinking about it like that makes me realize even more how the Duggar girls must have absorbed their abuse. They were constantly instructed to keep sweet and that females bear the blame if men stray. My instruction was more passive than direct, and I am still fucked up 54 years after.
    56 points
  7. It would be a nightmare to logistically organise (legally) an IVF baby through the prison system (I can only speak for Australia). But I can not see any governing body agreeing to support the ivf adventures of a convicted pedo already with 7 kids. It would be extremely bad optics and way to much hassle and expense. Not gunna happen. Realistically all the IVF talk about it happening before and or after his incarnation is borderline fan fiction.
    56 points
  8. God smite me for answering this because it doesn't matter at this point but perhaps, consider, not that I think it's particularly sad, but instead that I'm asking the question, "Who does this serve?" and "What does this mean about their motivations?" because it does beg the question. Who gets the money from 30 cent emails? Private investors and private profiteers. What does this mean for their motivations? They're likely to want more people in jail, for longer. They may lobby for this. They may lobby for this as sneakily as possible. They may do it boldly. It really depends. They may attempt to convince jails to do more to limit the ability of inmates to us USPS. I did note that the price to send an email is comparable to a letter, but the USPS doesn't have a profit interest in keeping people in prison. (Also, they have a very different labor load.) Does the email system being paid benefit the inmates? No. Does the email system being paid benefit inmates families? No. It is an additional costly burden for people who are, in theory, not being punished. Family members pay to send emails too. The price gouging is cutting both ways. Does the email system being paid benefit victims? No. See "money goes to the pockets of private companies." It's not as if that 30 cents drops into the pocket of community therapy coffers each time somebody sends any email. If it did, this would be a different story. And maybe it should! Maybe that would be a system worth having, or at least worth discussing. Does the email system benefit the public? I would say no, as in, any reasonably competent public department could create this service, which is relatively unsophisticated, and likely cheaper (because they're not looking to make a profit). I mean, it's a freakin' keyword search security system. It doesn't look for ciphers or anything. It couldn't even look for an acrostic message the way a human could. It might even miss a "key security" word if you misspell it badly enough. So, who is this for? It doesn't advance any of the goals even the most pro-prison folks here have, as far as I can tell. It has no benefit to rehabilitation. Why would it be worth defending? It's one thing if a private company has a vested interest, in say, people drinking coffee. Okay. We can run an advertisement about coffee, maybe we lobby for some import tax changes. If a private company has a vested interest in...keeping as many people in prison as possible...for as long as possible....well. Well. Then it's worth taking a real critical eye to.
    54 points
  9. I can speak to my own relationship with dissociation. I use it to cope if I’m overwhelmed, usually by trauma triggers. As a kid I both knew and didn’t know my parents were abusive. I understood I needed to protect my siblings and friends from my parents but at the same point I also thought their behavior was normal and happened because I was bad. The cost of seeing my primary caregivers for the evil, narcissistic abusers they were was too high because there was no way to escape due to me being a child. Even now as an adult it’s taken me years to Wade through the gaslighting, dissociation, cognitive dissonance, shame, and mental illness.
    54 points
  10. In addition to all of the nonsense mentioned above, my first reaction to seeing the photo of the mother was to gasp. They compromised her dignity by releasing that photo for some meaningless internet 'likes', which is appalling.
    48 points
  11. The issue for Anna is that none of the Duggar siblings like Josh. They haven't been close to him since the molestations. Even in the early specials on contrived reality TV, there was some bits of Josh bossing little people, but none of him actually interacting properly with them. Even JD did all his interactions with Jana/Joe never with the boy closest in age. His siblings didn't like him. They liked Anna because she meant Josh was leaving the house. Then the molestations went public and the girls were retraumatised and lost the show for a bit. Then Ashley Madison happened and they were shown that Josh never changed (like he and their parents promised). When he was arrested I don't think any of his siblings questioned his guilt, they didn't like him, they knew he'd molested children before, he was guilty. I think Joy mentioned in court documents (I think related to the lawsuit from her and her sisters) that her children had never been alone with Josh. Even pre arrest when everything was supposedly forgiven, she (appropriately) didn't trust him. Anna meanwhile is still clinging to his innocence. She needs him to be innocent for her own sanity, if he's guilty then everything else is a lie. The siblings can't give her that support as they coming from a completely different place. And for many of them, having someone defending him may be traumatic in its own right, the Duggar kids are all Josh's victims. The girls for what he did to them, but also the boys for the impact it had. The boys saw the impact it had on their sisters. They were viewed as potential predators and stopped from doing things like hide and seek. They lost the money from the show. All of which the kids blamed Josh for. Anna's trauma and the Duggar kids trauma right now are completely incompatible. Its no wonder that they aren't able to support each other.
    46 points
  12. I’ve seen so many photos of people very Sick and dying posted by fundies. But I almost never see that kind of thing from anyone I’m friends with on fb. When my grandma was dying, no one would even think of posting a pic online because we all knew how she cared about her looks. She always make sure her hair was done and had lipstick on. But they made sure to have her nails nicely painted because she loved that. So the only picture of her when dying was someone holding her freshly manicured hand. That’s it. Because that’s what she would have preferred.
    44 points
  13. If it is, I hope the next step is sending the kids to school. Private school, public school, church affiliated school - I really don't care; I just want her to non-verbally tell JB where he can get off. I also think it would be good for the kids to be with peers, good for Anna to have a more manageable load during the day and good for Maryella and Madyson to have more one-on-one time. In a perfect world, she'd send Meredith through to Mackynzie to day camp and drop the three youngest off at any relatives so she can go see a counsellor. She needs to sort through whose responsible for Josh's actions (not her) and process how to single parent seven kids. It will be HARD! I work full time and single parent ONE toddler with health concerns and if I didn't have support from my mom, I couldn't do it. The kids also should be in therapy to help them cope with their dad going to prison. The two youngest are likely unable to verbally participate but may benefit from a referral to an OT to help them regulate. My dad died at the end of March and my daughter (a month younger than Maryella) is showing signs of trauma. We are wait-listed to see an OT as she lost someone she loved deeply and spent every weekend with since birth. Losing a parent they live with full time impacts even preverbal kids and the babies will be even more affected than my little one. What a mess! Well done, Michelle and Jim Bob.
    44 points
  14. He launched a family values political campaign while supporting his son who was on trial for downloading CSA. The man is absolutely delusional.
    44 points
  15. "Doing time" is a colloquial phrase. I have a first degree relative who was a career criminal. He had many accounts of men who could not "do the time", meaning they could not settle down and adjust to the reality of prison life and culture, and become to some degree, institutionalized. These men would either have nervous breakdowns and need to be transferred to a mental health facility, attempt to harm themselves, or be subject to harsh discipline for not being able to get along with other inmates and causing disturbances. "Successful" prisoners develop a plan for how they will do their time, be it by furthering their education, focusing on body building, or some other productive activity. Some prisoners come to rely on the structure of institutional life so much that they cannot function o the outside, ala The Shawshank Redemption librarian character. They are the polar opposite of those who cannot do their time or who struggle. Josh Duggar, convicted pedophile, is in my opinion, a weak man who has been coddled all his life. There's no coddling in prison. He's got substantial time to serve, and likely thought his daddy would get him off or he would have taken a plea deal. It probably has not really sunken in yet that incarceration is his life for the next ten years. When it does, I think it will be very, very difficult for him to adjust. As a black person, I have many thoughts about the school to prison pipeline, the so called criminal justice system, and other aspects of policing, too much to go into here. Humane treatment of incarcerated folks, along with taking care of those who cannot care for themselves, are the hallmarks of a civilized society. But some folks cannot be rehabilitated, and should never be released back into society if they manage to land behind bars. Other people should not be there in the first place, such as those convicted of minor drug crimes under the failed "war on drugs". Particularly since the USA was the biggest drug dealer responsible for the crack epidemic, oh the hypocrisy, and now folks are getting rich off of legal weed. Not surprisingly, the corner boys in jail for selling nickel bags of course are mostly black, and the weed entrepreneurs are mostly white. System inequities are massive. As a CSA victim, I do think that sex crime perpetrators cannot be rehabilitated unless they permit extreme measures to be taken. I have no illusions about the American way of justice, which is rife with injustice. For-profit prisons are definitely not the answer. But the most dangerous among us need to be kept out of society at large. That's enough for today, hope my clarification was adequate.
    43 points
  16. Men with short hair, women with long hair, no pants for women, no alcohol. So they follow a long haired guy in a dress who drinks wine. That Jesus, such a rebel.
    43 points
  17. He might be at OK City transfer center for evaluation before being assigned to his permanent home for the next how many years. If he is placed in Seagoville he will have to do his own laundry and be assigned a job. She will not be able to visit him for about 60 days, first she has to be cleared by BOP to be placed on the visitor list, show up early on his visiting days either Fri and Sat or Sun and Mon, stand in line to get in. Her visit can only be up to 2 hrs once a month until he gets enough points for more visits per month. Another thing the warden can cancel visitation for the entire prison at any time for any reason. You do not know until you show up. He must wear his beige uniform and it must be ironed. After each visit the prisoner is strip and body cavity searched.He might be given access to the BOP email system which he can use whenever if his pod has not had any disciplinary actions. Phone calls are only 15 min per call and he can only call same person once a day, he earns the right to use the phone by a point system and the actions of other prisoners in his pod. All his mail is opened read then copied and the copies are given to the prisoner, because people were lacing the paper with drugs. On the positive side there is career advancement there, if he makes friends with someone that works in the prison industry section and he gets a job there he can go from a low level job to management. Medical Care there is really bad. Plus it also houses major drug dealers so the violence is a problem. All I can says is your actions have consequences now you are living them.
    41 points
  18. A narcissist who believes they completely control the universe around them. "I will not allow that."
    41 points
  19. Source? None of this is borne out in the data and most cities that brought the idea of defunding police and re-allocating funds to other social services after the murder of George Floyd didn't do that. On top of that, there just isn't enough time to collect a meaningful set of statistics on this. COVID showed a small bump in crime but overall, crime has been going down since the 1990s. George Floyd was murdered only two years ago. Police defunding, largely, hasn't happen. If it had, there hasn't been enough time to correlate any of that data because it's going to be buried in the noise. (Graph, crime rates. They're down.) I don't have to imagine it. I already lived it. What is your problem? Edit: Honestly, you get on here and you tell me to imagine "what it would be like to be a sexually abused child." I've already done it. What it might be like to watch my mother be beaten by my father day after day. I've already done it. I worked at the domestic violence shelter my mother ran to for years. Driven in evasive patterns to secret locations to spirit women away to for their safety? I've done it. What's next? What it might be like to be in an abusive relationship myself? Done that one. What it might be like to be drugged with rohypnol in your own house and have no memory of what followed? I've done that one too. Cleaned up my partners wounds after a friend's psychosis made him violent? I've done that one too. What amount of disclosed trauma would be sufficient here for you to not treat me like shit?
    40 points
  20. This is the best recap I can do and the blue color is for my thoughts/opinions. The video seems to be called "Three Truths' and it includes links to Rachel Denhollander's statement. I forget who Rachel Denhollander is, but according to wikipedia: So she's a gymnast, survivor, and Christian. He's starting off strong. He's says he wants to address what happened with his brother-in-law and he's chosing to do so after the sentencing. He mentions there are many victims and that this is painful for a lot of people, even he says 'they rejoice that justice has been done" and are glad we "have a justice system that seeks to protect the vulnerable and hurting." It's hard for people to process that a "Christian", especially a "high-profile Christian' could do this. "The higher the platform, the harder the fall" (Keep that in mind, Jeremy). "The response of many will be challenge the integrity of Jesus himself." (No, I didn't blame Jesus for Josh.) People will think less of Jesus as Saviour, because of Josh's sins and Christian hypocrisy. (Hypocrisy comes in many forms. I see the blatant materialism of many clergy as hypocritical.) Christians will worry Josh makes Jesus look bad, because Josh was representing Jesus. "False teachers" and "False believers" exist. Jimmy Swaggart_(link) was living a double live. (Swaggart was involved with prostitutes.) "The higher the platform, the harder the fall." He quotes his pastor, John MacArthur, with a sermon MacArthur preached in the '90s on the fall of Swaggart. "The far-reaching consquences.... are frightening.... for the credibility of the church." It's interesting to note that MacArthur is evangelical/Calvinist and Swaggart was Assemblies of God(Pentacostal). Still quoting MacArthur's sermon; MacArthur says that after Swaggart fell he knew the next week people in his (MacArthur's) church were questioning his (MacArthur's) legitimacy. I think during COVID MacArthur showed his true colors when he refused to hold socially distanced services. Jeremy: The wolf in sheep's clothing (the sinner pretending to be Christian) is more dangerous than the outright opponent (unbeliever). Josh has proven to be a hypocrite. He paraphrases Judge Brooks as saying to Josh [during sentencing] "who you are in private is who are really are. The integrity of person shows when no one is looking. " Things to be made crystal clear: 1. "God is a God of Justice. Genuine Christians must defend the poor, the weak, the vulnerable, etc. Why? True Christianity defends victims. Jesus sat with the abused and opposed abusers. Read Matthew 23. ... Jesus had no time for abusive leaders who preyed on the vulnerable. God is Justice. It's the essence of who he is. True religion is to care for widow and orphan. To be silent or defend the guilty is anti-God." "I think that in case (Josh) like that everyone must get behind this and everyone can get behind this. This is not a hard case. The evidence is overwhelming." "But here's something more controversial. Justice finds it ultimate resolution in the cross of Jesus Christ. We want justice in this case, but we hide from justice in ourselves. God's judgement is across the boards. Josh will have to face God/Jesus and account for his actions. Jeremy is afraid for Josh. Josh will have to answer to God, but so will every other person." "People love Jesus's social good, feeding the poor, ministering to the lonely, etc. , but people do not want to be reminded of their own sin. The reason Jesus came was to save the sinners. People are afraid of being exposed. Jesus was loved for his social good, but the people killed him because they didn't want to be reminded of their sins." More Jesus dying for our sins. "Jesus takes the place of sinful people. Even the most wicked sinner can be saved. Josh Duggar can be saved. So can you and so can I." 2. "Josh can be forgiven, but that in no way erases the demand for his crimes to be punished. Forgiveness never means that temporal consequences for sin. " Truly repentant people embrace consequences for their sins. (They admit they made a mistake and deserve consequences.) Truly repentant will ask to be punished as it reflects God's righteousness. You can be punished on earth and gain eternal salvation. "If a man like Josh was truly repentant, it would be obvious." He brings up Larry Nassar and Rachel Denhollander. He reads Denhollander's statement to Larry Nassar. Denhollander's statement to Nassar: Trigger Warning Sex Abuse. Here's the part Jeremy read: TRIGGER WARNING He then gets back to Josh. True repentance doesn't include "asking for temporal leniency (less time in prison)... reputation damage control, or trying to get off the hook." "I pray that Josh would experience this repentance, but though I fear it has yet to be seen." He's talking about the book of Jonah, chapter 3 (link). "You must turn from your sin, not run toward it." Josh should accept the court's decision. As should Anna, JB, and Michelle. 3. Jesus's reputation must be protected. Jesus Christ is a "kind man" , "gracious savior" and "ultimate judge of people." We need to talk about Jesus. Jesus didn't make Josh sin and doesn't protect abusive hypocrites. Jesus offers salvation to everyone, even Josh. It is sad to see people equating Christianity with this situation and Josh Duggar doesn't represent Jesus. Jesus is too good to be "lost in this situation." I think it's a strong statement. I don't agree with all of it. I think a lot of atheists and non-Christians are able to acknowledges their mistakes, fu*k-ups, and problems, sometimes better than Christians. What this situation bad is that too many clergy and religious people have problems with containing their own sin. Plenty of people besides Josh have represented Jesus and done bad things. I also remember Jeremy's signing MacArthur's petition about social justice and how those experiencing inequality should basically STFU. I wouldn't say Jeremy or MacArthur particularly stands for the vulnerable. That said I appreciate his strong stand on his brother-in-law. I think he has some good things to say about the case.
    40 points
  21. Ever since I listened to Gil’s IBLP speech where he mentioned that Carlin suffered from serious depression issues from the time she was a young teen and they “cured” her by making her sit through a long revival and basically telling her she needed to always look cheerful, I’ve viewed her over the top behavior a bit differently. They clearly did zero to help their depressed child, she just learned that she needed to put on a mask of extreme happiness to keep her parents from beating her over the head with religious nonsense about how being depressed is just a form of being selfish. Looking at the sort of parents Gil and Kelly have been the most obvious answer as to why they don’t go help their sick child is that they are just terrible parents. Always have been, probably always will be.
    40 points
  22. Except for JRod. As fundie after fundie dons Levi’s she digs herself deeper in to dresses and skirts only. She must having a fit now that Josh Duggar’s wife has become a harlot in pants. I expect a post soon on how she is the only God honoring woman on the planet.
    40 points
  23. As a government employee and a Cherokee, I'd like to thank Derick for choosing to be a public servant in my tribal lands. I'm sure we will see many more posts shitting on Derick for taking such as a low-paying, "low class," "dangerous" job. Snobs gotta snob.
    40 points
  24. Anna's officially wearing pants now.
    40 points
  25. I watched the Kelly interview back and actually while Jill and Jessa do say that it happened when they were asleep, they don't say it only happened when they were asleep. They actually say they didn't know what he was doing, which really isn't the same as saying they didn't know he was doing it. When Megyn Kelly asks 'you have no memory of it?' Jessa replies, 'I didn't know, I didn't understand, "OK, this is what's happened" until my parents told me about it'. The important part here is her stress that she didn't understand and until her parents actually identified that behaviour as wrong, she wasn't able to conceptualise it as such. Because the Duggars had not educated their children around bodily autonomy. Jessa goes on to describe it basically happening perhaps frequently or routinely, definitely opportunistically, saying, 'he was very sly, like, the girls didn't catch on. It was like, OK, if he catches a girl sleeping, you know, like a quick feel or whatever... in the situations it happened when the girls were awake it was like they weren't aware of what was happening. It was very subtle.' He was opportunistic. He was taking advantage of the girls' innocence. Even at this age he was finding ways to mask his behaviour, he charmed them, made them feel safe, joined in games like hide and seek when he might be in a confined space with them, had them sit on his lap for bible study. This is precisely what paedophiles do, and actually given how he was building these skills at the age of fourteen, I seriously doubt that he's never attempted it again since. He had a playground of little kids to practice on and God knows what he's managed to get away with over the years. The girls use the fact that they weren't 'traumatised' by what Josh did (although actually from what we know now it sounds more and more like at least Jinger and Joy were and are) to minimise it - innocent experimenting, consequences implemented, no harm done. What they don't appreciate, what they were discouraged from appreciating, is that whether or not they were affected by it, he still did it. His acts were very wrong, in fact illegal, and he knew this. A crime with an unwitting victim is not less of a crime. If Jill did actually witness something of what he did to Joy first-hand, she might still have believed that it was not so bad because Joy was too young to understand what was actually happening - that this would have been worse with an older girl who understood immediately its import. Whether they were aware or not, the girls should have been protected from this kind of violation and they weren't; in fact they were sent on TV to justify it. What a shitshow.
    39 points
  26. What she needs to lose is about 220 lbs of man pedo.
    39 points
  27. I am confused by this. I live in a "desirable" part of the country and our DA's office and public defender's office both hire baby attorneys. As soon as the ink is dry on the bar card, they are employable. In our county the term for the entry level baby attorneys is "deputy district attorney" or "deputy public defender." Once they get more experience, then they will be "managing deputy district attorney" or "supervising deputy public defender." Only the top elected or appointed attorneys go by "District Attorney" or "Public Defender." Pretty sure that in OK the term "assistant district attorney" is the entry level position. Higher level staff will be "supervising ADA" or "managing ADA." I checked district 27, where Derrick will be, and the DA there serves a 5 county area. It's very rural and lots of tribal land. It seems like a reasonable career fit for him. He will be one of several attorneys in the office and will likely start off with misdemeanors or second chair on any felony cases.
    39 points
  28. I respectfully disagree. I agree that Josh is a weak, coddled man. But he is now trapped in prison the same way he was trapped in his life. When he had free time, like when he was "working" at that sham of a car lot, he got into trouble. In prison, however, he will not have to think at all. He will be told when to get up, go to bed, eat, bathe. He will not have to cook, clean up after, grocery shop, or plan meals. He will be told when it's exercise time, phone time. He'll be given a chance to go to whatever church services are available. He will be told when to gather up his dirty clothes for the laundry, when he can write a letter to someone, when he can take a nap. I don't think any rehabilitative program will help him. He simply doesn't see any thing wrong with what he wants to do, and it seems that what he wants is to watch the stuff that got him into prison. He doesn't seem to be a very introspective person, so we can't count on critical thinking skills, because he doesn't know how to do that. If you think touring an old, closed penitentiary is bad, try visiting your child at a functioning one. Starting with juvie, the sounds of the doors and gates closing before and behind you is penetrating. One door opens. Step into the space. That door closes. Then the door ahead of you opens. Step forward again. and repeat until you reach your goal.. reverse the procedure to leave the place. I hope never to hear those sounds again. You can't take so much as a tissue inside, at the risk of giving something to the inmate. You are suspect as is the inmate. I don't say this to try to garner sympathy, especially for Josh or his family, but I will say that it is very difficult to hear those sounds and walk through those doors and realize that this is your child's life every day.
    38 points
  29. Maybe I'm just strange. After I grew up and moved away from home, my annual trip back home always included lots of pictures of my parents. Fast forward several years, to the point where Dad had bought prostate cancer for many years but the cancer invaded the rest of his body including his brain. I got the call but I needed to come home as quickly as possible because Dad was in hospice. I made it back in the very wee hours of the last day of his life, after spending the day flying. When I went into his room at the hospice and looked at him my first thought was that is not my Dad. This man who was never tall but always muscular and strong look like a scrawny plucked chicken. It was so hard to even look at him I cannot imagine taking a picture of him in this state. I still prefer to think of my dad as the younger stronger man who carried my foot locker up to the fourth floor, the only one on campus, because that's where my residence hall room was.
    38 points
  30. **pops up quietly to whisper** maybe road tripping with her bestie means she was following the transport van....? **slowly sinks back to hidey hole behind the couch**
    38 points
  31. I tend to think she's not too bright, simply based on the fact that she agreed to marry Nathan...
    38 points
  32. Lol, but Marinade does present itself. Marynade, or Merinade or Marinayde, etc.
    38 points
  33. It Derrick is going to be an Assistant District Attorney, he needs to be careful about what information he makes public. If he rises through the ranks and goes from prosecuting petty crimes, which is where he will start, to hardcore crimes like murder or gang activities, he should stop posting information related to where he lives and the layout of his house. Normally, prosecuting attorneys have private social media accounts, if any, and even then, they don’t post much information. Jill should be more discerning about what she puts on the blog. It’s just a safety issue.
    38 points
  34. We lost #3 of the 4 boys last July. He was four years old. He had a cardiac issue that we were unaware of, but even if it had been found during his life it would probably have postponed the outcome but not prevented it. One of the first things I thought of in the aftermath, and that I come back to often, is this bit from the book where Anne's firstborn dies: "Anne found that she could go on living; the day came when she even smiled again over one of Miss Cornelia's speeches. But there was something in the smile that had never been in Anne's smile before and would never be absent from it again." Coming back to the thread topic... I am Abbie's age and had my youngest right around the same time as her twin boys and just about everything she posts is annoying. I can't even.
    37 points
  35. At some point, I expect Anna to notice how little she needs to worry about Josh. For the next decade or so she'll always know where he is and what he isn't getting himself into. She might realize how much energy she wasted as a result of his BS and how much she doesn't miss it. Then, perhaps, she can view the separation in a not all bad way and start considering a future without him. Am I being too hopeful?
    37 points
  36. @Antimony I was given an essay to proofread today by a friend for his 17 tear old son, in India. It's to prove English competency, as he is applying to Uni in the UK, on the topic of "Do prisons work?". I was happy to read it - he concludes they don't, and I was quite impressed with his references. I may have just passed on some little things about conditions in US prisons already. Since he was also making a point about loss of outside family/friend relationships and recidivism, I think I'll have to also pass on the costs of sending an email being 2.5 hrs work. I really cannot believe that anyone tries to justify US prison conditions. They are barbaric, a failure, and not fit for purpose. Reddit is doing my head in with the number of people gloating about what is in store for Josh. I get it, we all hate him, but frankly, I cannot take any pleasure in the suffering of people like him, or worse. There is a large middle ground between letting the likes of Josh, Ted Bundy and Ghislaine Maxwell roam free, and actually torturing people, and it really makes me worry about the psyches of lots of people.
    36 points
  37. Aside from the fact that this is all like, fear mongering, and I also didn't say that letters shouldn't be read, I just said I don't believe they are to any level of meaningful detail.... Edit: Maybe this wasn't clear. When I talk about letters being "scanned" being a for-profit scam, I am not talking about them being read for security risks. They probably aren't, honestly, because who the hell has the time to read all that in any level of detail? Certainly not COs paid nearly nothing to work 12 hour days. I am talking about companies that scan-and-print copies of letters instead of delivering the individual letters, usually at charge to the prison system (your tax dollars, folks!). They do this under the guise of "drugs" that could be, theoretically, I suppose, soaked into paper and snuck in that way. Except, that doesn't happen because prisons already throw out any letters with stains, warping, perfume, or water damage. (I even won't write pen pal letters when my hair is wet because of this!) Is it happening? Maybe a little bit. Certainly not enough to warrant the way we're responding...And, the fact that most drugs come in through COs or other means because....again...if you're being paid $11/hour and a friendly inmate offers you 3x the going rate for some weed than what it costs on the outside....it's a pretty big deal. It is a costly solution to a problem that isn't happening, only to produce profit for private companies at the expense of both tax payers and inmates (as in, parents can't get letters directly from their children, etc). (In fact, if you search for this problem, you'll see a common drug to blame this on is suboxone...used to treat heroin dependence...and then it just started to seem really sad...honestly) This sort of "tough on crime" attitude only works if you believe that everybody in the prison system is a horrible monster. You can only believe that if you refuse to acknowledge that the prison system is largely made to impact and profit from the most poor and discriminated among us. You can only believe that if you think it's good and normal that the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. To be okay with that, you have to be okay with the fact that our incarceration system is based on, rooted in, slavery. This only works if you want to ignore that we imprison children in this country and doom them to a cycle of incarceration. I also think I look at this differently. The way I treat people who are imprisoned doesn't tell me a lot about those people. It tells me about myself. It tells me what level if inhumanity I'm willing to treat a stranger with. There's a Bryan Stevenson quote about this, that I like, and I don't know if you have the same ire towards a civil rights lawyer as me, but; If I am willing to condemn an entire class of strangers to cruelty, especially ones who are falsely convicted, or children who have been in this system at way too young an age, or people profiled based on race, that is something wrong with me. I just can't do it, sorry. I have no interest in eroding human rights because if I do that for people who are criminals, there may come a day --- and maybe soon --- where I am a criminal for aiding and abetting an abortion, or being too fucking queer, or protesting too loudly -- and it won't matter that my crime isn't "as bad as some others" -- they will take those rights away just as easily. A "criminal" isn't a set state, it is determined by the society around it, and criminality does not equate to immorality in all cases. There can come a day when the powers that be come for all of us too. It has happened before. It is starting to happen again. I see no reason to support unnecessary cruelty that doesn't restore justice. I see no reason to have a justice system that doesn't actually restore peace to victims. (I mean, it drives me batty that the fees 50K in Josh pays go to the court, not to any of his victims or an organization that helps these victims...maybe it "goes back to the prosecution" but it all gets lost in bureaucracy. Police don't even have to return stolen items to victims in criminal robbery.) I see no reason to allow a private, for-profit company to have a monetary interest in the incarceration of people. If you can't see how that is a conflict of interest, I can't help you, I guess. As always, when I talk about prison issues, I'm not talking about Josh Duggar. I'm not talking about any given person. I'm not talking about whatever criminal you think is most convenient to your point. I'm talking about structural problems. Also, you seem to take a lot of my statements as some sort of moral opinion. Did I say anybody needed Gmail with the bells and whistles? No. I said it looks like a site from the 1990s because, well, that's what it looks like. It just does. People were curious how jail email works. That's how it works. That's how it looks. But we've been over this, you don't really give a shit about talking about this in good faith. You give a shit about attacking me, and I'm a little bored of it now. But, as always, for those that actually are interest in conversations about this, I'm around. I have book recommendations and I also don't think any of these are easy questions. If you all think I woke up one day and became a prison abolitionist all at once, you're wrong. If you think there aren't inmates in the world that piss me off, you're wrong. If you think I didn't meet activists early on in this process and think they were absolutely out of their mind also, you're wrong. It's a long journey, and I understand that individual stories of justice or injustice are very compelling, but when it comes to prisons, I care about the structure being wrong. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water here, I'm pointing out that the bath water is poison and there might be some babies in it.
    36 points
  38. Gonna break this into parts, and like, as usual, I'm never trying to be an asshole. But maybe I'm internally a bitch. It's possible. I think it's notable to consider that many of the founders of the prison abolition movement are Black Women, one of the groups of people we generally see being the most underserved and vulnerable. I have not been a victim of something Dateline worthy, but crime? Yea. Sexual assault? Yes. I think many people in the prison abolition movement, from my experience, do have experience with being a victim. It's one of the ways you can end up close enough to the justice system to be heavily disillusioned by it. Many people are radicalized by their first experience asking for help. (Notable Prison abolitionists writers -- Angela Davis, Mariambe Kaba, Ruth Wilson Gilmore. You can even see some similar philosophies in the writings of bell hooks.) By and large, this isn't a movement that comes from people who don't crime and trauma and suffering. It comes from people who do, and said the prison system isn't helping at all. I could be crazy but...I think they didn't think they would be arrested or jailed at all. Very few of them made any effort to cover their face, they brought their phones in, took geotagged photographs. And why would they have expected consequences? The sitting President of the United States was telling them to do it. He was using state authority to incite violence. This wasn't state authority preventing violence. It was the opposite. It was the leveraging of the authority of the state to incite a coup. But, because it begs the question... How many more people would seek help for drug use if the knew they were not going to be jailed for their transgressions? How many more people would ask for help with parenting, or mental health issues that they struggled with that led to neglect, etc. if they knew they were not going to be jailed for their transgressions? How many more people would call for help in domestic violence, etc, if they knew that it wouldn't end with both of them being arrested? Questions like these cut both ways. And maybe for some people, that points to decriminalization of things, which honestly -- cool. The answer here is no, but I guess I don't understand the point of the question. I don't think the ubiquity of problems is a reason to not address them, or talk about them. I feel like you don't believe me...but you can just look it up. It's a well known phenomenon. Perhaps even more baffling, they're getting worse. Clearance rates are going down. All the forensics in the world, and we're arresting fewer suspects. For rape, from 1964-2018, we can watch the clearance rate decrease. At the same time, police budgets have increased 400% since 1977, but clearance rates are down by almost half? What is going on? But as to why are our prisons still full, if police aren't doing their jobs? Sentence lengths are probably a big factor. The United States has very long sentences compared to other countries for similar crimes. Our parole system also created a revolving door of inmates. Once you're in, it's hard to get out. So, people are there for a long time, and that contributes to why they're crowded. It can be both and the fact that it is both should be a ringing condemnation of our system.
    35 points
  39. Katie is back in Tennessee to help Carlin move, and this finally inspired me to make this quick & dirty timeline of Katie's travels and visitors since she's been married. Sources are her IG and threads here; I can't be bothered to listen to their YouTube. All dates are approximate (could be very wrong!) and I may have missed a visit or two. Dec 3 -married Dec 4-14 K&T Honeymoon Dec 14-17 K&T in Tennessee w/Katie's family (Christmas, Christmas Eve at Travis' parents) Dec 27-Jan 6 Addie & Ellie visit Jan 8-9 Nathan&Esther visit Jan 13 Jackson visits (dinner only) Jan 20-27 Katie's best friend visits Feb 14-21 K&T in Cabo with Clark family Feb 23-26 K&T in Tenn for I love you day March 10-12 K&T join Clark family recording trip in NC March 12 Kelly & Addie visit Katie in NC Apr 4 Katie alone to Tennessee to meet Zade Apr 11 Josie visits NJ Apr 28 Kelly, Jeb, Judson visit NJ for Travs' grad May 12-16 K&T in Cali for Tiff&Lawson wedding Jun 3-10 K&T NJ shore vacation w/Clark family Jun 11-14 Katie alone to Tenn to help Carlin move aaaaand she mentioned recently that she and Travis have tickets to go back to Tennessee at some point soon. So Katie and Travis haven't spent more than two weeks at home alone as a couple since they got married; the longest stretches without activity are in late March and late May. Assume that when they are at home they're spending every second or third night with some of Travis' family. I find this pretty incredible. They haven't really had much time to establish a normal, everyday routine just the two of them. Is Katie actively trying to avoid that, or is she just really really homesick? I don't think it's a great start for a stable marriage.
    35 points
  40. Mostly I think Anna is tired. Very, very tired. Raising that many young children is physically and emotionally exhausting. Add in drama with a husband sentenced for CSAM who likely was never honest with her and yet is still her closest emotional relationship. She is an unlikeable person because she comes across as infantile. But how does an exhausted, immature mother grow up when the people likely providing her physical and emotional support don't have her back and don't want her to grow up? I have no idea. She is heavily institutionalized. Only in this instance the institution is the Duggar compound and not jail.
    35 points
  41. The Caldwells really piss me off. I worked at a nursing home during the first 14 months of covid. My office mate (business office) died of covid before vaccines were available. Their rights to do whatever they want trump the rights of his mother and every other resident and employee. The nursing home isn’t going to change their policy because they get some annoying phone calls from Caldwell humpers. Their policies are based on the guidance and mandates of the health department and other agencies. Some of the comments are telling the Caldwells to find another home for her, but the problem is, she’s probably receiving good care there and they’ve probably been able to keep her safe from covid based on their pesky rules. And every other decent nursing home probably is following the same rules. Maybe they should care for her at home.
    34 points
  42. Kelly only wants to listen good news. Courting a middle class fundie boy? Oh dear, tell mama about it. Wedding planning? Mama is there. A baby? Another baby? A bachelorette party? A gender reveal party? Snow trip? Beach trip? Yes, yes and yes. Sick kids, surgeries, marriage problems, depression... Mama is too busy to help.
    34 points
  43. I think Kelly and Gil are generally terrible parents. I feel like Carlin likely wasn't expecting much from her mother because she has never had it. Carlin is child #9 of 19, I feel like if Kelly did any real nurturing of her children, it stopped long before Carlin. So I think we can't expect them to act like normal, good parents, because they aren't and likely never have been. I feel bad for Carlin but it seems Evan's family is able to fill some of that void for her.
    34 points
  44. They deleted and turned off comments. They did the same thing when they posted lots of pictures traveling around maskless when the whole country was in lockdown. They can’t handle the pushback. They are very thin skinned.
    32 points
  45. I want to make it clear she was not having a stroke while they were there. She had a stroke previously and that’s why she is in the nursing home. But they refuse to follow rules. This is not the first time as they admit. I’m guessing this has been an ongoing issue with them and the nursing home finally had it with them. I would love to say to them, “great job ruining grandma’s birthday and making it all about you!”
    32 points
  46. I suspect she is telling herself that while the horrible CSAM was indeed downloaded, it was someone else doing the downloading, and NOT Josh. He was either deliberately framed, probably because of his godliness, or someone else downloading that stuff was covering their tracks through various VPNs and/or routers and Josh happened to take the brunt of it. I would bet that the denial is likely running pretty deep.
    32 points
  47. I remember when the convicted felon was in Jesus jail and Anna/kids were at the TTH. There was a video wishing her a happy birthday. Jana said Anna was good to have in the house because she volunteered to do chores no one else wanted to do, like cleaning the bathrooms. I was baffled, what the hell kind of birthday sentiment is that? Yeah, we are stuck with my SIL and her kids, but hey she certainly cleans for her supper, I haven’t scrubbed toilets since my father forced her to move in. 🤦🏽‍♀️ It made me feel sorry for the kids.
    32 points
  48. He’s obviously lying. His mask is down. I imagine that was happening constantly while they were there. I’m sure this has been an ongoing issue with these assholes and the nursing home had enough. The police were called because they refused to leave after breaking many rules. They brought this on themselves.
    31 points


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