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  • Summary provided by: kb2


    The Sanders

    The Sanders are a family of 10 in Alabama who live on an organic farm. They are good friends with the Morton and Smith families, as well as the more-anonymous "R" family.


    Family members, in decreasing order of age, include Tim (dad), Wendi (mom), Noah, Abbi, Rebekah, Grace, Ethan, Emanuel (Eman), Gabriel (Gibbie), and Nehemiah (Nehi). Tim also has a daughter from a previous marriage, Lora Lynn of vitafamiliae.com


    Abbi is the most common photographer and author of the blog, although other family members step in at times. I believe she is responsible for "Southern Rose Photography." southernrosephotography.blogspot.com


    Tim and Wendi celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary in 2012, and Wendi's parents (Grandmother and Granddaddy) celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in 2012.


    Extended family:

    Wendi has three siblings (Uncle Todd, Uncle Booth, and an unnamed aunt are siblings). The Booth family had 11 children as of 2006. Tim has at least two siblings (Aunt Toody and Uncle Jon). Tim's mother is Grammy, and father Grandpa Gene is sadly deceased.


    Their farm, Rora Valley Farms, is named after the location of the book Rora by James Byron Huggins, about Protestants in Italy who withstood the Inquisition. The book is roughly based on history but is not entirely accurate (for instance, the main character's real family was returned to him safely, not burned at the stake as the book depicts). One Goodreads reviewer suggests the book would be made better by fixing typos such as those confusing "your" and "you're." Newt Gingrich gives it six stars on Amazon. Anyway, the Sanders family identified with the book's protagonists because:


    The people of Rora were committed to serving the Lord.

    The people persevered in their faith even during great difficulties and when under great persecution.

    They were known as prosperous farmers and craftsmen.

    They were a fairly self-sufficient community with a strong commitment to helping one another.

    They appreciated the multi-generational legacy they had been given.

    They were great students of the Bible and had their own translation of the New Testament at a time when the Catholic Church forbade any non-Latin Bibles.

    The main garden for our farm is in a valley next to a steep ridge.

    Rora is in the Piedmont region of Italy, and our farm is in the Piedmont Plateau.




    On their farm, they raise chickens as inspired by Joel Salatin, as well as bees, a milk cow, pigs, produce, and two mules.


    They bought the farm (or, in the early days of the blog, "the property") and planned on moving there from their previous location (called "11 Acre Wood," where they had a garden and raised chickens, although on a smaller scale) in order to start an organic family farm. An acquaintance offered to buy 11 Acre Wood just before they were about to put it on the market in 2009. So they sold their house more quickly than expected, moved (squished?) everyone into the barn that was on the Rora property, and started working on a house on the Rora property. One year later, their house was built and everyone moved into that.


    They try to be self-sufficient, building many things on their own, such as their barn (which is supposed to eventually be a store, although so far it has instead housed the entire Sanders family and now Noah's family), a treehouse in the middle of the pond, a dock on the pond, the greenhouses, chicken coops and pens for animals, and their house. They are currently working on building Noah's house. The pond seems to have mostly been built by Tad, the "local pond builder," and his company. Friends such as the Mortons make frequent appearances to help out with big projects such as house-building, and electricians and other experts are also involved with larger projects. Some years they have cut down their own Christmas trees from their property.



    They really like the card game "Euchre." And they also enjoy a bean-bag toss game which they call "corn hole."



    The Sanders family home schools. Noah is currently the only graduate. Grace has a "Grace University" t-shirt that she was given by a cousin attending that school, but no plans for anyone to leave home for more school/work have been announced.


    Noah and Dorothy (nee Morton):

    The courtship story starts here on the blog and continues for a number of posts: roravalley.com/blog/?p=779


    In May 2010, when the family moved into the house at Rora (leaving the shop/barn with an open apartment that could house newlyweds), Tim Sanders told Noah he could look for a wife. After asking his mom and sisters for advice (because they had a closer relationship with Dorothy), he told his dad one week later that he was considering her. Noah's father approved this choice, and so Noah called Michael Morton (her father) to ask about a courtship with Dorothy. Mr. Morton said he'd talk to his wife and Dorothy, and then called Noah back and said Noah and Dorothy could proceed with the next step of courtship: actually having a conversation with each other. So Noah and his three sisters went to the Mortons to visit, and Noah and Dorothy had many conversations with chaperones nearby. On the last (third) day of the visit, Noah proposed (with sister Grace as a chaperone). Then they were given permission to hold hands. They married in July. roravalley.com/blog/?p=1221


    They had their first child Enoch (pronounced e-nick) Timothy in August 2011. roravalley.com/blog/?p=4978 No word yet on #2, but the nosy baby-bump watch continues.


    Noah published a book about farming, Born-Again Dirt, and blogs at redeemingthedirt.com


    Noah and Dorothy are currently building a house on Rora Valley Farms on a site that was picked out in 2008. roravalley.com/blog/?p=373




    Probably best reflected by the conferences they have attended and approved of:

    Calathora Farms Fabric of the Family Conference '12

    The Reformation of Food and the Family '12 (Vision Forum, feat. Joel Salatin) (Noah spoke at the conference)

    Generations with Vision Family Economics Conference '12 (Noah was on the "Young Entrepreneurs Panel," which consisted of only young men)

    NCFIC Gospel-Centered Marriage Conference '11

    Mother/daughter conference hosted by Stacy McDonald '10

    Christians at the Crossroads '09 (Botkins)

    NCFIC Sufficiency of Scripture '09

    Defending your faith family conference (Answers in Genesis and Vision Forum) '08

    3 father/daughter Vision Forum retreats (and once the girls went without Tim to help with flowers beforehand)


    Noah went with the Morton boys to "Challenge," a military-style camp for boys where they run an obstacle course and dress in t-shirts and camo pants, and as far as I can tell don't actually employ anyone who was ever in the military. It is held in the fall. Dad/Tim had to go and take pics to check on the boys because apparently women aren't allowed at the camp at all. Lunch appears to take place in someone's living room.


    Some members of the family were extras in October Baby.

    They made a point to eat Chick-fil-a August 1, 2012.

    They supported Judge Moore for governor, and especially liked his quote, "Separation of church and state does not mean separation of God and state.†http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore


    They have been to the Kentucky Creation Museum three times, first in its 8th week of existence and again in '09 and '12.


    Later, when talking about our experience at the museum, in the car, it was all agreed that it was so interesting to actually go to a museum that based all their displays, shows, literature, etc. from a Biblical worldview. We almost had to force ourselves sometimes (mentally and physically ☺) to read the displays. We’ve gotten so used to not really reading all displays in most museums because of the lies and falsehood that they usually portray. Most of the time we feel sorry for the other people reading and taking in all that stuff. But it was actually encouraging at the Creation Museum to seeing a little boy or girl ask questions about the Garden of Eden or the flood. If not more, the museum at least opens peoples eyes to the truth and maybe starts them questioning what they really believe.




    They attend a very small church (everyone sits in a circle during the service), but I believe it has its own building. Either that, or someone has a very large living room. Occasionally baptisms were held in the Sanders pool when they lived on the 11 acre property.


    Gender roles:

    Men/boys are frequently referred to as being protectors of women and children and being innately different from women.


    It seems that boys come with a natural, God-given, attraction to fire, hammers, and knives. I guess you could call them ‘Dominion-taking Tools’.



    Women are referred to as having servant's hearts and do activities that are seen as traditionally feminine such as sewing. They are also frequently photographed in the kitchen cooking. The Sanders girls wear skirts most of the time, although, refreshingly, they do wear pants when it's practical, for instance when helping with construction projects or participating in 5Ks



    Free Jinger's Sanders Discussions

  • Posts

    • Melissa1977


      13 hours ago, FreeTheScapegoats said:

      First time poster: I was wondering if one of the reasons why Lauren falls so easily into projecting her grief unto her unborn daughter is that, for her, most of the parenting memories are still abstract concepts. She’s never woken up in the middle of the night to feed her own kid, ditto with changing diapers, playing with them or homeschooling. I could be wrong, I’ve never been pregnant, but maybe there’s a bit of that into play. The only difference for her right now between Asa and her daughter (other than pregnancy stages and baby kicks) is that there are things she’ll never do with one kid and things she’ll do with another. Obviously it doesn’t excuse everything she’s done and I’m still worried about all the guilt her daughter will feel once she rationalizes that “Asa died so [she] could be born”.

      While I'm not fundie, being a mother was my greatest dream. My happiness when I knew I was pregnant was absolute. I knew it was only a bunch of cells, but still imagined it was a full formed baby and talked to him. Etc. So in pregnancy terms, I was like a fundie woman (wow!!!). But even in this case, I knew I wasn't a mother yet. There was no baby I could touch and see. And considering how Erin, Whitney, Michelle, Anna... have showed their grief and have talked about their miscarriages, they didn't saw their babies in utero like they see their born kids. Lauren is different and taking things to another level, too much even for a fundie. 

      • Upvote 1
    • Melissa1977


      Kelton looks awful because his ridiculous grin. But if he had a relaxed expression, he would look normal. 

      I see the same "problem" with John Webster. That forced smile. But at least he is not Joker-scaring like Kelton!

      Willow is a very pretty baby. I like all babies but I find her particulary sweet-looking. 

    • raspberrymint


      I was too dumb for Abeka math and Saxon math.  Math took the bulk of the day and was miserable.

      At age 10, my mom gave up, so math became some program where I watched an exercise video and exercised while repeating basic math tables.  

      At ages 11 - somethingteen, math was an instruction video followed by my dad working with me to finish the accompanying book problems for hours at night.  Algebra and geometry.  I hated math.  I felt bad for hating it, too, with all the effort my dad was putting in.  

      In most of my teen years, math was me doing the numbers for my grandparents' business for $0.00.

      I did pass the required college math courses, but barely and by taking only math and no other classes at the same time.

      I never used any of the math that gave me trouble...

    • LacyMay


      I think Lauren sees herself as sort of an authority on pregnancy loss now and she's trying to make her loss and her grief "mean something" by speaking about loss and "being an encouragement" for other women who have experienced loss. Which is often something I would really support, people who have experienced that type of loss and grief first hand are oftentimes uniquely equipt to help others. 

      The problem is that Lauren doesn't seem to have processed her loss enough to use it in a way to help others, her posts often seem disingenuous and almost have an undertone of *see me* *see my loss* as opposed to *I see you, I see your loss* She also seems to lack the critical thinking skills needed to see her loss through the lens of the loss of another person, as has been discussed in her mind she is *just as "qualified"* to provide support as Joy or Michelle who had to deliver the children they lost or Erin Payne who experienced multiple miscarriages. She doesn't seem to differentiate much between her singular very early term loss and a nearly full term loss. She believes that she walked the same path and lived the same experience. 

      I don't think she has a malicious intent I also don't think that she was speaking to Joy in particular. I think she views this as almost a "calling" from God to use her loss as an encouragement. Because she's so desperate to make sense of it. In her mind she did everything right so why else would God do this? 

    • under siege


      1 hour ago, Pleiades_06 said:

      New livestream up. Couldn’t watch the whole thing, but a few things stood out:

      1) A viewer asked how homeschooling is going and Tom said great, to which Judah said no, it’s awful. Tom quickly explained Judah thinks that but actually Judah is doing great and learning a lot.

      3) He is very defensive when talking about the dog and Hannah. The dog had hernia, which is better, but fell down the stairs. Hannah is screaming in the background. At one point he says she’s in bed and the kids tell him no-she’s on the chair. 

      4) He ignores the kids comments during dinner, like Sophia telling him soup has spilled. He’s very, very focused on the camera.

      6) At 31 minutes he talks about not being able to remember all the kids’ ages, to which Solomon says he does. Solomon then recites every correct age. Tom then says he can’t use the “Dad excuse “ anymore, whatever that means 

      7) At 32 minutes he’s talking about how much his kids know and mentions how nobody learns what the “England flag” is in public school, to which Asher replies, yes, they do. Am I sensing schooling rebellion from Judah and Asher?


      Other notes: Eden tries desperately to get his attention, and they are all not matching. 



      Thank you for the recap.

      1) Yesterday I decided to check out Judah's channel and on his community page, he apologized for not being able to do as many videos because school is taking up a lot of time.
      Andrea used to work with the kids having trouble with certain subjects and work out a plan of attack to help them through it. Still used ACE but she tried different approached to how that kid studies. Judah was the main one I remember she did that will so I hope Grandma Kitty can either (a)work out  how to make ACE work best with each kid or (b) convince Tom other curricula should be incorporated (wishful thinking probably)

      3) That is so heartbreaking how little he gives a f*** about the dog. The poor thing is suffering and Tom cannot say that he can not afford vet care or humane end of life for Knuckles.

      4) His 'youtube people' continue to stroke the ego and bringing the coins so they are very valuable commodities. Who else tells him he's doing an amazing job and he's such a great father instead of him leaving the camera alone for a while and actually being one.

      6) Dad excuse = Tom has to be present in his kids lives now. Not just breed and show up for events. He now has to actually do Dad stuff and get to know his kids.

      Those kids are going to be even ore bible bashed now by the sounds of things.



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