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John David and Abbie 5: Pancakes with a Side of Wedding


HerNameIsBuffy

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1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

Well we do know that neither Jessa nor Jinger were bridesmaids.

With Abbie coming from another state and living some distance from the Duggars I don't think that they were 'best of friends', thus being close enough to be part of the wedding party.   Many brides choose their wedding attendants from among sisters, cousins and close friends of long standing. 

The fact that JD was so hurt by Josh's messes probably put him out of the running for best man.   I could see Josh as part of the wedding party IF! this weren't a highly publicized wedding that would be shown on TV.   I can see that the family is probably still keeping him back far enough so there aren't any clear pictures of him so that he doesn't further tarnish the brand.  However, I can see his boys as part of the ring bearer grouping.   

I'm waiting for the day there is a Duggar wedding without half the freakin' family in the wedding party.   I'll fall over if any one of them has just a Best Man and Maid/Matron of Honor and calls it good. 

And by the way, did I miss mention of how AMAZING the first kiss was - or are they skipping that because maybe they did have a first kiss (GASP!)before the wedding?   

 

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28 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Genuine insiders can get verified by FJ.  The real ones have no problem in doing that. 

Or they need to be okay with people not taking their posts as fact.

Personally I definitely wouldn't call myself an insider but I have talked about my past experiences with the Duggars. I've never verified myself with FJ and have no plans to do so. I don't want to verify my real life identity with anyone, and while I do believe that the FJ admins/mods would keep it confidential, I've been surprised by how readily people on various sites will send identifying details to moderators. There's nothing actually special about being a moderator! It's not like going to a doctor where there's a legal responsibility to keep things confidential. Moderators are just like anyone else on the internet in that you need to exercise your judgement on what you share with them.

So I very much disagree that real insiders would have no problem verifying their identity with FJ, but like I said, if you're not going to do that you also need to be okay with people not believing you.

Edit: To be fair, it would also depend on the claims and what kind of identity verification we're talking about. If someone is claiming to be a particular person, like an actual person who is discussed here, it would be weird if they would claim the identity publicly but not be willing to verify that claim.

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32 minutes ago, Ilovebrownies said:

:output_eeMbjt:

Cracks me up every time I see that. I just realised Michelle has her mouth open. 

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20 minutes ago, FrozenSmile said:

Time to take you to Vegas! ?

Wooo $$   Do I double down with Jana being the only potential Duggar woman in the wedding party?  Hmmmm 

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8 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

The thing is, we don't know what Abbie is into. She could very well be into planes. It's not like she has named 100 interests and hobbies like "ooh I like flowers and owls and painting and fitness" and none of them were planes. She simply hasn't mentioned any, so we can't assume that she is not into planes. 

I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt. Planes are cool, and maybe she is into them. 

Also, sometimes you only know what you for sure DON'T want.

My husband initially wanted to do the traditional Korean wedding, makeup, bowing, people carrying me around in handcarts, the whole nine yards.  I was like...no.  If he'd suggested something else, an airport hangar, I probably would have been, yeah, okay, I'll give you that.  Flowers, breakfast foods, meh, don't give a crap.

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4 minutes ago, freedomfromfrumpers said:

Wooo $$   Do I double down with Jana being the only potential Duggar woman in the wedding party?  Hmmmm 

Double down. 

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4 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I didn't find the video, but I found where we talked about it:

It happened. :puke-front:

I so wish I was wrong! Ermagherd. Gross. 

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7 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

She may have said that but who wouldn't when trying to look all shiny and hide the reality, as they do. Case in point: the Pearl book recommendation that is now gone.

What I wrote is how I remember it. I'm pretty sure the kitchen calendar was shown and the chances of all babies self weening or her getting pregnant on cue while nursing seems a stretch. But, I'm not @Palimpsest or @VelociRapture, those two know their shit. Correct me if wrong!

If you look at huge families in the past, pre-birth control, pre-formula, I think it’s a safe assumption that some women just get pregnant relatively soon after delivery- exclusively breast feeding or not.  I know Quite a  number of families where the children are 12 - 16 months apart who solely breast fed . ( including me. Including my mom ) They don’t have a dozen kids with that spacing, because they usually take the snip/tie route after.  Or at bare minimum triple down on some form of family planning, I’m not saying she wouldn’t lie, because obviously they do, but if you have a naturally occurring baby spacing range of 1-3 years - some women are going to fall closer to the one year mark.  Same with fertility span. Yes, most women’s fertility decreases over their thirties / early forties- but there are still some women who become pregnant ( without assistance ) into their late 40’s- early 50’s. That’s what statistics are. If 99 people out of 100 fit in category x, that means there is still 1 in category y. Someone has to be y. 

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@Mama Mia  Totally not disagreeing on what you just said but, I remember Michelle talking about the calendar tracking and giving us viewers a run down on the buddy system that included how long baby stays in her room, gets weened and then handed off to a sister to stay in the girls room. I remember it being 3-6 months. Like, started weening at 3 for the goal of hand off at 6 months.  Something like that. I'm only talking about Michelle, not baby making and nursing in general. 

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I think Kelly Bates beats Michelle with being hyper-fertile. 19 kids and no twins and I can't remember how many miscarriages. Kelly breastfed but also used some very harsh baby training, and from what I've read that limiting breastfeeding can impact how effective it is when preventing your period from starting back. I could be wrong though. 

I don't know if Kelly had a calendar to tract it like Michelle did, but her kids were fasting and praying in hopes it would help her get pregnant, so I really don't think they were leaving it up to God. They were actively trying to have another baby. 

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4 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

If you look at huge families in the past, pre-birth control, pre-formula, I think it’s a safe assumption that some women just get pregnant relatively soon after delivery- exclusively breast feeding or not.

Yep.  My mom told me of a woman she knew back in the 50s - back when big Catholic families were a thing...this woman had 6 kids and said no more, limited fellowshipping with her husband to the only "totally safe days" while she was on her period.

It was my mom's illustrative way of explaining NFP isn't fool proof as #7 was born less than a year later.

In my own experience I lost a baby at 20 weeks and was pregnant again less than two weeks later...we didn't use anything as I didn't think I could get pregnant so soon. 

I'm glad it happened as my youngest is the result but to this day he feels like a 15 month pregnancy.

 

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7 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

For some reason, I read this as "Jesus could have changed into comfy shoes for the reception"  as in WWJD.  I am going to stick with that image because it amuses me.

Doesn't Jesus wear Chacos all the time? : )

Seriously, when I was a kid we sometimes called sandals like that "Jesus Sandals" or "Jerusalem Cruisers."

PS 20+ years later my mother still talks about tacky she thinks it was that my cousin had her wedding reception in an airplane hanger.  But, honestly mom, reception venues in Pushmataha County OK are kinda limited. Give it a rest.

For our foreign readers, Pushmataha County, Oklahoma, is former Choctaw tribal land, and named after an eminent Choctaw chief. Pontotoc County, where JD and Abbie got married, is former Chickasaw tribal land. Pontotoc means "land of hanging grapes."

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27 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

She may have said that but who wouldn't when trying to look all shiny and hide the reality, as they do. Case in point: the Pearl book recommendation that is now gone.

What I wrote is how I remember it. I'm pretty sure the kitchen calendar was shown and the chances of all babies self weening or her getting pregnant on cue while nursing seems a stretch. But, I'm not @Palimpsest or @VelociRapture, those two know their shit. Correct me if wrong!

Now I’m blushing. Lol!

To be honest, I never really watched the show*. Most of what I know comes from carefully reading here and doing some research of my own. I remember reading about a calendar and that the eldest daughter’s tracked her cycles, but I unfortunately don’t know anything more specific than that. 

*This is also why I tend to be less attached to (and, at times, more harsh on) the site favorites than other posters may be - I didn’t watch them grow up in the same way other people have. 

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I have a cousin who got married at 35 or so and started trying to have children immediately because she wanted some before it was too late. She not only had 3 children in about 5 years, a few years after her third she found herself pregnant again with an unplanned fourth child.

Of course that's just her, and it's not particularly unusual to still be very fertile at that age, but in her case she worried about being too old but actually ended up with more children than she planned!

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2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

fasting and praying in hopes it would help her get pregnant

Was that why?  Or was that the excuse because fasting kids are easier for parents who can't afford to feed them properly.

Hey - Kelly and Gil - No matter how successful you are with UP, we remember when it was up to your teenage son to feed his siblings because you couldn't.  And your bio, Gil, bragging how you raised all those kids without income dependent on "the world" or whatever without a mention that you were dependent on your own minor son.

We remember that you tried for more when the ones you had were hungry.  We remember the poor horses.  And we remember Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Those kids should have been fasting and praying for better parents.

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4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I think Kelly Bates beats Michelle with being hyper-fertile. 19 kids and no twins and I can't remember how many miscarriages. Kelly breastfed but also used some very harsh baby training, and from what I've read that limiting breastfeeding can impact how effective it is when preventing your period from starting back. I could be wrong though. 

I don't know if Kelly had a calendar to tract it like Michelle did, but her kids were fasting and praying in hopes it would help her get pregnant, so I really don't think they were leaving it up to God. They were actively trying to have another baby. 

Kelly has four losses, all given names from their favorite hymns. I believe they were Jewels, Sunny, Jubilee, and one more I can’t remember. I believe Jubilee was the only loss that occurred close to the 20 week mark, two were very early losses, and one was at or before the 12 week mark. 

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44 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

If someone is claiming to be a particular person, like an actual person who is discussed here, it would be weird if they would claim the identity publicly but not be willing to verify that claim.

That would be the only time we'd either insist they verify or stop claiming to be X.  You can't sign up and speak as if you are The Sarah Maxwell, or Carlin Bates or whatever to stir shit.

But in total agreement with everything you wrote.  Totally understandable not to verify if one doesn't want but then can't get one's nose out of joint if everyone doesn't take what you say as fact because you say it.

It's the internet - grains of salt are always necessary.

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20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's the internet - grains of salt are always necessary.

Yep, and even if someone is verified they can still make stuff up!

It seems like the fakers have the more dramatic stories anyway, while people telling the truth often aren't going to have much to say that we don't already know/guess!

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44 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Doesn't Jesus wear Chacos all the time? : )

Seriously, when I was a kid we sometimes called sandals like that "Jesus Sandals" or "Jerusalem Cruisers."

PS 20+ years later my mother still talks about tacky she thinks it was that my cousin had her wedding reception in an airplane hanger.  But, honestly mom, reception venues in Pushmataha County OK are kinda limited. Give it a rest.

For our foreign readers, Pushmataha County, Oklahoma, is former Choctaw tribal land, and named after an eminent Choctaw chief. Pontotoc County, where JD and Abbie got married, is former Chickasaw tribal land. Pontotoc means "land of hanging grapes."

I'm impressed there was even a hangar to use out there ... that's some RURAL area for sure.

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1 minute ago, freedomfromfrumpers said:

I'm impressed there was even a hangar to use out there ... that's some RURAL area for sure.

Hangars are pretty common in rural areas - my hometown muni has several, and the town is pretty (actually, VERY) small.

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I've not followed the Bates as much I knew that Lawson had to help feed them for a time, but I had no idea that they made the kids fast as a way to help her get pregnant. The fact that you can't afford to feed or house your family and then actively try to add to that family morally bankrupt IMO.  I do not understand these people, this isn't leaving it up to God when you go out of your way to have more kids or purposely ignore signs to stop doing what you are doing (like Michelle & Josie almost dying and her getting pregnant again anyway), or seeing how many miscarriage Kelly had.  It is hard to realize just how selfish these women are to do this to their kids. 

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1 hour ago, Sky with diamonds said:

Cracks me up every time I see that. I just realised Michelle has her mouth open. 

NOW, it's funny. In real time, I think I yaked a bit when I originally saw it.

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16 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've not followed the Bates as much I knew that Lawson had to help feed them for a time, but I had no idea that they made the kids fast as a way to help her get pregnant. The fact that you can't afford to feed or house your family and then actively try to add to that family morally bankrupt IMO.  I do not understand these people, this isn't leaving it up to God when you go out of your way to have more kids or purposely ignore signs to stop doing what you are doing (like Michelle & Josie almost dying and her getting pregnant again anyway), or seeing how many miscarriage Kelly had.  It is hard to realize just how selfish these women are to do this to their kids. 

I don't recall it being presented as Gil and Kelly "making" them do it, rather it was presented as the kids voluntarily fasting to get God to make Kelly pregnant again. ? It might have genuinely been voluntary on the part of at least some of the kids, or it may have been imposed by Gil and Kelly. But we don't really know.

All I know is that it clearly shows the weirdness inherent in the way that kids in these fundie families can have a baby obsession inculcated in them through growing up with parents who themselves are obsessed with having as many children "as God gives them" (ie that they can manage to have one way or another).

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