John David and Abbie 5: Pancakes with a Side of Wedding

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, metheglyn said:

rather it was presented as the kids voluntarily fasting to get God to make Kelly pregnant again.

Based on nothing my first thought is if kids are praying for that then there must be something a lot more pleasant about Mommy when she's knocked up as opposed to when she's trying.

[Destiny]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Based on nothing my first thought is if kids are praying for that then there must be something a lot more pleasant about Mommy when she's knocked up as opposed to when she's trying.

The kids are brainwashed into the more kids is better and it's more arrows for the lord and we are going to outbreed the people who don't believe like we do. They may actually genuinely look forward to more. Brainwashing can be powerful. 

Or, ... what you said. Both are possible. 

[Sky with diamonds]

18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

NOW, it's funny. In real time, I think I yaked a bit when I originally saw it.

I yaked when I saw what JB and Michelle did on  the episode...and in front of Jessa and Ben no less. 

Modesty my ass. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

The kids are brainwashed into the more kids is better and it's more arrows for the lord and we are going to outbreed the people who don't believe like we do. They may actually genuinely look forward to more. Brainwashing can be powerful. 

Or, ... what you said. Both are possible. 

agreed.  I wasn't that deep as a kid, my prayers usually had some ulterior motive benefiting me.

[unholypoledancer]

22 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

NOW, it's funny. In real time, I think I yaked a bit when I originally saw it.

I actually went and Googled that episode-where JB and Michelle play mini golf-and UGH. The CRINGE. Him scooping her up after he wins and teasing Jessa and Ben that "neeer neener neer neer, we can kiss and you can't" was awful. Not that I like Jessa and Ben, but it speaks volumes about JB and Michelle's immaturity. Even more so since Jessa/Ben couldn't hold hands during that episode either. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

5 minutes ago, Sky with diamonds said:

Modesty my ass. 

Modesty only applies to unmarried/horny teen fundies... lol

[Cheetah]

All that talk about Jessa's cardigan and no one else thought maybe it was there to cover up a baby bump?  Just a thought.  

 

 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That would be the only time we'd either insist they verify or stop claiming to be X.  You can't sign up and speak as if you are The Sarah Maxwell, or Carlin Bates or whatever to stir shit.

But in total agreement with everything you wrote.  Totally understandable not to verify if one doesn't want but then can't get one's nose out of joint if everyone doesn't take what you say as fact because you say it.

It's the internet - grains of salt are always necessary.

Or the dearest friend of name that Bates or Duggar or Maxwell invited to their weddings and willing to spill the shit on FJ. 

No, of course people don't have to get verified.  But it helps their credibility if they do, or they have to accept that some don't believe them.

Fakers usually mess up before too long but some are very, very, clever.  I always feel sorry for the people who are taken in by them.  Until those people start squealing that FJ should vet and verify all its posters.

Fakers can do a whole lot of damage.  See Razing Ruth.  Many people who questioned her stories were run off FJ.

Bushels, not grains, of salt should be used.  And please don't ever attack the messengers who question stories and expose scams.  Be grateful to them.

::Steps off soap box::

 

 

[singsingsing]

Jessa has mentioned struggling with some pretty bad body image issues in the past. I know she laughs it off on social media, but that stuff can go deep. 

[KeshetParparNesicha]

@VelociRapture I think the Bates' fourth miscarriage was named Zion.

I used to pray for my mother to get pregnant, too - it wasn't because I was brainwashed or thought we were going to outbreed anyone. It was because babies are cute and I liked having them around.

Fasting, though? Seems a little overkill.

 

Edit: 100th post! 

[formergothardite]

17 minutes ago, metheglyn said:

I don't recall it being presented as Gil and Kelly "making" them do it, rather it was presented as the kids voluntarily fasting to get God to make Kelly pregnant again. ? It might have genuinely been voluntary on the part of at least some of the kids, or it may have been imposed by Gil and Kelly. But we don't really know.

Yes, it was presented as a voluntary thing. Just like they were constantly "voluntarily" telling Kelly and Gil to take vacations while they watched all the young kids at home.  

And then there is the creepy time they "surprised" Gil and Kelly by decorating their bed and putting a basket of lotion and stuff on it. 

Yes, these kids were indoctrinated from a young age to be obsessed with their parents fertility. 

[Destiny]

I thank all the gods that fasting wasn't a part of our religious practices. I mean, I knew it was a thing some people did, but it wasn't a thing for us. I'm ... not a nice person unfed. 

[formergothardite]

I could never, ever make it in Gwen's cult because I would just be evil all the time with that food deprivation! I'm a hobbit! I like my second breakfast! 

I was miserable in the training center when they made us fast on Sundays. Apparently I spent the days writing long letters whining about it to my mom. I don't actually remember it but she still has the letters. 

[Destiny]

Just now, formergothardite said:

I could never, ever make it in Gwen's cult because I would just be evil all the time with that food deprivation! I'm a hobbit! I like my second breakfast! 

I was miserable in the training center when they made us fast on Sundays. Apparently I spent the days writing long letters whining about it to my mom. I don't actually remember it but she still has the letters. 

I would be literally incapable of functioning in that environment. I don't tolerate not eating well. First come headaches, then come shakes, then comes the floor. Did the centre at least have some sort of option for people who literally could not?

[formergothardite]

8 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Did the centre at least have some sort of option for people who literally could not?

You could have a medical exemption. One of the people on my team had a medical issue where she had to eat to take medication and she had some sort of dietary restrictions so she got to go buy food to keep in her room. The rest of us couldn't have any food in our room. I was always bummed she wasn't my roommate because I would have begged food off her. 

My roommate tried to get food to eat while she had her period since she was so miserable but they wouldn't allow it because she didn't have a doctor's note. We were supposed to be reading our Bible and crap like that, but both of us just sat around complaining and the forging the weekly Bible study time sheets. 

Back when I was in college this friend tried to convince me to go on a retreat where you fasted for a week. I am not paying money to starve for one week! 

 

[SassyPants]

50 minutes ago, unholypoledancer said:

I actually went and Googled that episode-where JB and Michelle play mini golf-and UGH. The CRINGE. Him scooping her up after he wins and teasing Jessa and Ben that "neeer neener neer neer, we can kiss and you can't" was awful. Not that I like Jessa and Ben, but it speaks volumes about JB and Michelle's immaturity. Even more so since Jessa/Ben couldn't hold hands during that episode either. 

I wonder what Ben's parents thought about that stunt? 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

49 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

All that talk about Jessa's cardigan and no one else thought maybe it was there to cover up a baby bump?  Just a thought.  

 

 

Nah. She doesn’t look fuller in the face or bust at all. If anything, she looks thinner. Her dress might be more of a summer dress, and the cardigan makes it a fall outfit.

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, Firebird said:

Abbie seems like a breath of fresh air because she has more potential than the last few female duggar in-laws. She is older and at least has enough schooling to work as an LPN (that's what she is right?) If she is employed then she has more world experience than the 18 year olds that the Duggar boys have been marrying. She has more opportunity to impress us or disappoint us. She at least has a chance to be something else beyond a SAHM. 

She is the female version of Dwreck. When he first came on the scene we were all hopeful.... 

[emmeline]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I think Kelly Bates beats Michelle with being hyper-fertile. 19 kids and no twins and I can't remember how many miscarriages. Kelly breastfed but also used some very harsh baby training, and from what I've read that limiting breastfeeding can impact how effective it is when preventing your period from starting back. I could be wrong though. 

I don't know if Kelly had a calendar to tract it like Michelle did, but her kids were fasting and praying in hopes it would help her get pregnant, so I really don't think they were leaving it up to God. They were actively trying to have another baby. 

Yep. Breastfeeding is about 98% successful as a contraceptive provided that a woman is feeding her baby on demand (no stretching out feeds or limiting the length of feeds), only breastfeeding (no formula or solids), and her period hasn't returned yet. Baby training/strict routines can definitely mean that breastfeeding is not effective as a contraceptive. 

(Source: I work in breastfeeding support.) 

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, emmeline said:

Yep. Breastfeeding is about 98% successful as a contraceptive provided that a woman is feeding her baby on demand (no stretching out feeds or limiting the length of feeds), only breastfeeding (no formula or solids), and her period hasn't returned yet.

Doesn't that last part kind of negate everything else, though? Like, isn't it basically saying, "You can't get pregnant if you're not ovulating"? It's like saying that breastfeeding is 98% effective as long as it's effective. But how many women experience suppressed ovulation via exclusive breastfeeding after 6, 10, 12 months? And isn't it kind of taking a big risk since you ovulate on average about two weeks before you get your period (i.e. a woman could think she's safe because her period hasn't shown up yet but already be ovulating unbeknownst to her)?

[artdecades]

34 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

She is the female version of Dwreck. When he first came on the scene we were all hopeful.... 

thats the meanest thing anyone could say about her

[emmeline]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Doesn't that last part kind of negate everything else, though? Like, isn't it basically saying, "You can't get pregnant if you're not ovulating"? It's like saying that breastfeeding is 98% effective as long as it's effective. But how many women experience suppressed ovulation via exclusive breastfeeding after 6, 10, 12 months? And isn't it kind of taking a big risk since you ovulate on average about two weeks before you get your period (i.e. a woman could think she's safe because her period hasn't shown up yet but already be ovulating unbeknownst to her)?

It varies wildly in my experience. I know women who fed exclusively and on demand and got their period back at 6-8 weeks post partum, and others who got it back at 18 months or 2 years. Most commonly among the women I know ovulation has started between 6 and 12 months as baby starts on solids and spaces feeds out more. Introducing solids seems to be a trigger for a lot of women to get their periods back. There are also variations in whether when ovulation restarts it is 'functional' or not - ie whether the woman can actually get pregnant or not. It's not uncommon for a woman not to actually be able to get pregnant for her first few cycles. Kellymom has a really good article about how it works. 

It's about as effective as using condoms perfectly. For me, I felt pretty relaxed about it before starting my babies on solids, and a little less relaxed after that. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Bushels, not grains, of salt should be used.  And please don't ever attack the messengers who question stories and expose scams.  Be grateful to them.

::Steps off soap box::

Beautifully put.  Just don't put that particular soapbox in storage...I have a feeling we need to keep it somewhere we can access it on the regular.

[Mama Mia]

16 minutes ago, emmeline said:

It varies wildly in my experience. I know women who fed exclusively and on demand and got their period back at 6-8 weeks post partum, and others who got it back at 18 months or 2 years. Most commonly among the women I know ovulation has started between 6 and 12 months as baby starts on solids and spaces feeds out more. Introducing solids seems to be a trigger for a lot of women to get their periods back. There are also variations in whether when ovulation restarts it is 'functional' or not - ie whether the woman can actually get pregnant or not. It's not uncommon for a woman not to actually be able to get pregnant for her first few cycles. Kellymom has a really good article about how it works. 

It's about as effective as using condoms perfectly. For me, I felt pretty relaxed about it before starting my babies on solids, and a little less relaxed after that. 

I was one of those statistically screwed women who ALWAYS got my period back very soon - so soon that there was virtually no break between postpartum bleeding and periods returning, despite breastfeeding on demand. My sister and at least one of my daughters is the same way. Also had the extra “special” knack of getting pregnant combining  with various barrier methods ( used correctly ) . And having too many side effects with the pill and IUD, which I tried many times. If I’d lived a few generations ago I have no doubt I’d have at least 15. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

She is the female version of Dwreck. When he first came on the scene we were all hopeful.... 

I think the difference is that i this culture a male spouse can lead the whole family off the rails, whereas wives are, theoretically, just following the lead. Abbie might not be god's gift to mankind but she's also unlikely to drag JD around the world on a series of ill-advised "missions"-- even if she wanted to.