Lori Alexander 20: Evil and Hateful as Ever

[feministxtian]

What couples do Kenori know that treat each other like shit? Most of our friends are married (umm...couples as friends)...and NONE of them treat their spouse like shit! 

[Red Jumper]

I think they saw them in their mirror.

[lilah]

Wtf is church dicipline? I'm getting some scary Handmaid's tale Vibes here

[mango_fandango]

My friend has been battling BPD and PTSD for a few years now. A few months after she revealed her mental health issues, she also came out. No doubt LoriKen would say she had those issues because of not being straight. (On the plus side, my friend was able to complete her degree through the Open University).

These people make me sick. 

[BlackSheep]

Dr. Lori's prescription for what ails you:

Titus 2 QAM, QHS, PAN

(a dose of Titus 2 each morning and at bedtime, and as needed for anxiety)

DAW1: Substitution Not Permitted - KJV Only

Refills: Infinite

Contraindications: Yoga pants, Thongs

[Pammy]

1 hour ago, lilah said:

Wtf is church dicipline? I'm getting some scary Handmaid's tale Vibes here

It's basically how you can eventually get kicked out of a church if you can't/won't stop doing something "sinful".

Step 1: supposed to be private: person A has a personal conversation with person B about something wrong -- either an offense against them personally, or an awareness of sin in their life. The person is supposed to take that to heart, apologize, make amends, stop doing it in the future, etc.

If not, step 2 is the same conversation, but with someone else (usually impartial, sometimes a church leader or respected person) to act as a witness -- or possibly a mediator, if the situation turns out to have two sides. The person is supposed to take it to heart, etc.

If not, step 3 is to involve leaders if they haven't been involved already. There might be more 'chances' given, plans made, etc.

If this isn't effective in helping/requiring the person to stop whatever it is, they are deemed "unrepentant" and are no longer considered church members. They may be asked not to attend church events or services, or they may be fine to come, but they are just not considered members. This may be announced to the congregation (with or without details).

In formal churches this final stage is called excommunication.

In fundie circles and cults, it often involves shunning and/or public shaming.

Many churches don't do it at all.

[louisa05]

I think it is important to note that while some "church discipline" is structured as @Pammy writes and based on the structure for confronting a person in a conflict in Matthew 18, not all fundie churches who engage in it do things privately or in that way. 

When I was growing up in a small town, there was a small fundie church there that had public trials of members who were found to have committed "serious sins". A teen couple were tried at Sunday service over an unplanned pregnancy, for example, complete with "testimony" of other church members about how their sin affected everyone else. And, yes, they called that "church discipline". 

[feministxtian]

As part of the membership covenant at our church, you agree to church discipline. According to our pastor (who planted the church almost 40 years ago), in all that time, there was ONE case that went in front of the church body...he didn't go into details but it involved adultery. 

[lilwriter85]

8 hours ago, dairyfreelife said:

. Also, Lori and Ken are really ones to talk about buying stuff for their children considering all the stuff her parents gave them and they have clearly done to help their own children. Their two kids near them have deeds of trust with Lori and Ken. Son Ryan works in Ken's business. They admitted to helping Cassi and her husband financially. I guarantee they helped Steven get his dentist partnership and Alyssa's husband once worked for Ken's business as well. So, give us a huge break already or put your money where your mouth is Lori. They gave more to their children financially than most parents ever have or could. Maybe they didn't have a lot of "toys", but they had plenty of money help in other ways. (I'm not sure I believe that her children had very few toys anyway). 

I mentioned this in another thread, but Lori has done blog posts where she talks about her sons hate people who live off the government and get handouts. I think it can be argued that her sons have received handouts via Ken. Yes, there is a difference between off getting government assistance vs. receiving help from parents. My siblings and I as adults have received help from out parents with college expenses and they bought all of us our first cars because they wanted us a jump start and didn't want us out driving unreliable beater cars. We all worked hard in college and in our careers. I went through job loss years back and my parents helped me out. I don't think there is anything wrong with people helping their children out as long it isn't frequently and/or if there is is good reason.

Lori tries to make it seem as if her sons are completely self-made men. They aren't.  I have noticed other people who describe their kids as being very independent, but their kids have received help either from them or from someone else. My friend has a MIL who keeps claiming that all of her kids are self-sufficient and don't take help at all. But, she says that the MIL bullshits about various things. My friend has a brother-in-law who had addiction issues and a shaky work history. Just recently, the brother-in-law got arrested for burglary and is awaiting trial. The MIL has been keeping quiet on that. My friend's younger sister-in-law works but has financial issues because of health issues(mostly diabetes) . The sister-in-law has received government assistance in the past and she lives with the father-in-law due to those financial issues. My friend has said that she doesn't think there is anything wrong with her SIL living with her FIL. But, what pisses  her off is that the MIL and SIL have lied to relatives about the SIL' s financial status. She also said that her SIL has said some nasty things about other people on government assistance.  My friend's husband went to college on scholarships, financial aid and grants.  He said that he will never cut anyone down for taking help if they are trying to improve their lives.

[Petronella]

Quote

Most women would rather have careers, make a name for themselves, shop, eat out, waste money, go to Bible Studies, and do everything but be keepers at home

Wow. What a weird entry on that list of "bad things to do." Go to Bible studies! The hussies!

It really highlights her obsession with micromanaging other people's Christianity. She isn't trying to teach people about God/Jesus; she's seeking out people who already share her faith but are, in her opinion, "doing it wrong."

What a truly odd mission in life.

[OldFadedStar]

5 hours ago, Petronella said:

Wow. What a weird entry on that list of "bad things to do." Go to Bible studies! The hussies!

 

She thinks pretty much 99% of the women's bible study writers are false teachers because they end up speaking in front of men. Therefore, if they can't follow that biblical truth then nothing else they say can be trusted. Plus, they should be studying the bible and not anything else. Plus, all they do is gossip and tear their husbands down.

[louisa05]

I wonder if at some point Lori was called out on her nonsense at a Bible study, leaving her bitter.

[BlackSheep]

From "Most Marriage Books Hurt Marriages":

Quote

It’s not my place to teach women how their husbands should act since it becomes a stumbling block to a better marriage for most women, plus I am not instructed to teach men in the Word.

Lori tells us to stay at home and let our husband be the sole earner and the head decision-maker. That's telling us how we should expect our husbands should act.

[crawfishgirl]

I had never heard of church discipline until I read about it here a couple of years back, and was shocked.  Granted, I've never been a regular churchgoer, but it was probably because I never attended a conservative church.  I'm not sure if the more liberal churches do it, or at least I've never heard of them doing so.  The website www.9marks.org has some snarkable articles about discipline.  Someone once linked to this article about people trying to leave the church, and it needs repeating here:  https://www.9marks.org/article/pastors-dont-let-your-people-resign-into-thin-air/  Basically, it states that churches have to approve your leaving the church.  I wonder if they realize that this bs is why so many people don't attend formal services any more????

Regarding escrow:  my escrow portion of my mortgage payment now exceeds the principal and interest portion.  I live in a large city about 1.5 hours from the gulf coast, so our homeowners insurance is over $3000 a year.  My state doesn't have state income taxes, so property taxes are astronomical, and that is also paid through escrow.  Houses values have been supposedly increasing, so our taxes are skyrocketing.  We put a lot down when we bought it many years ago, and have since refinanced so that our prin/interest payment is reasonable, but now our escrow has exceeded it.  It makes me ill to my stomach, since we'll still have such a large expenditure on the house even after we've paid off the mortgage itself.

[EowynW]

Re: church discipline. I am very leery about it and church covenants after seeing it abused so many times. The Wartburg Watch has some great resources about those issues. 

[EowynW]

Lori said that her raw egg and vinegar dressing would keep in the refrigerator for a month 

[Koala]

Reader:

Quote

We have the best marriage book available, our Bible, but for some reason most people prefer to seek help from human inspired authors. I've never quite understood that. 

Lori:

Quote

Amen! If all believers would obey God's Word and walk in the Spirit, Christian marriages would be strong and examples to a lost world. If we are called to be living sacrifices, generous, kind, longsuffering, peacemakers, loving, and joyful, we need to make sure that we are all of these towards our spouse!

Excellent!  
Sounds like Lori could save herself a lot  of writing/typing if she actually believed that.  No need for a blog, no need for a book (or a second book), no need for a chat room or Instagram, or any of the other social media outlets she spends the majority of her day on.  

She could just tend her home, cook for Ken,  clean her house, and read the Bible.

*Side note* I wonder how Lori's fellow church members respond to her?  You know some of them have Googled Lori, and probably ended up here, Spiritual Sounding Board, Patheos, or one of the other sites that discuss Lori's "teachings".

If they've read her blog, they know she's written the pastor's wife a letter about her choices in swimwear.  They know how she feels about women with jobs, yoga pants, women's Bible studies (which the church probably offers).  

How many things do you think they "forget" to invite her to?  It's got to be incredibly awkward. 
 

9 minutes ago, EowynW said:

Lori said that her raw egg and vinegar dressing would keep in the refrigerator for a month 

*gag*  You put that over some slimy, 4 day old lettuce, and you've got dinner!  
Seriously though, it's a real time saver when you have to devote the "majority" of your day to "monitoring" other adults.

[BlackSheep]

59 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

I had never heard of church discipline until I read about it here a couple of years back, and was shocked.  Granted, I've never been a regular churchgoer, but it was probably because I never attended a conservative church.  I'm not sure if the more liberal churches do it, or at least I've never heard of them doing so.

[snip]

My church is very liberal and modern compared to how I was raised. I wear jeans and sandals to church, the praise band rocks, and the worship leader has earrings and a tattoo. Sermons: Read scripture... Learn what it means via language, context, maps and history... and Learn how to apply it to your life. Biblical topics are sometimes put into perspective by referencing current events, local major league sports teams, movies, etc.

Church discipline is a term that I've never heard spoken at our church. I'm sure that there's a protocol. Every organization - religious or secular - needs a procedure for handling situations. But a trial before the congregation? Even my childhood church didn't do that, and it was very conservative.

@Koala, your post made me think of this:

[EowynW]

She wrote a pastor's wife about her swimwear? She has a lot of nerve 

[BlackSheep]

8 minutes ago, EowynW said:

She wrote a pastor's wife about her swimwear? She has a lot of nerve 

Only Lori is righteous enough for Lori.

[Hane]

2 hours ago, crawfishgirl said:

The website www.9marks.org has some snarkable articles about discipline.  Someone once linked to this article about people trying to leave the church, and it needs repeating here:  https://www.9marks.org/article/pastors-dont-let-your-people-resign-into-thin-air/  Basically, it states that churches have to approve your leaving the church.  I wonder if they realize that this bs is why so many people don't attend formal services any more????

The extent to which I would tell such church leaders to go jump in a lake cannot be understated. According to the Catholic Church, I'm still a Catholic. According to me, I'm a UU.

[EowynW]

2 hours ago, BlackSheep said:

From "Most Marriage Books Hurt Marriages":

Lori tells us to stay at home and let our husband be the sole earner and the head decision-maker. That's telling us how we should expect our husbands should act.

Yea and she, ken and all their cronies ganged up and called my husband weak, unwilling to lead, and a feminist because he didn't want me to vote like him! 

[feministxtian]

I agree that most marriage books hurt marriages...mostly because they're utterly useless and give really shitty advice. However, Lori's advice is not just shitty, it's downright dangerous. The BEST marriage advice I ever heard from a pastor was this: "if you've never lived by yourself, you have no business living with a spouse". Something about learning the responsibility of living alone and taking care of your own shit. That advice went for both the man and the woman. I can see Lori's head exploding on that advice. 

 

[polecat]

re: church discipline

I have had the questionable joy of sitting on the sidelines during two separate church discipline events. They were both held similarly to trials, where the "guilty" member had all his dirty laundry aired publicly, witnesses were called against him,  but I don't remember anyone being called in his defense? And then the entire church basically sat in condemnation on him, and he was kicked out of church.

My memory of the first one is fairly hazy because it was 25 or so years ago, but I am not sure the guy even showed up. The second one, though, the guy definitely didn't show up. So if memory serves me, both of these guys were basically tried in absentia because neither of them even cared enough to attend their own discipline. So why did the church even bother? Why not just say, "His membership is revoked" and leave it as that? 

Well, because in fundamentalism, it's no fun unless you can look down on everyone who isn't as holy as you are. Geez! 

Spoiler

In case anyone cares, the first guy was kicked out because he was demon possessed. I swear to GOD. How freaking asinine. I was still a teenager and could barely control my inner Statler and Waldorf through the whole idiotic charade.

The second one was much sadder and involved adultery and abuse. The guy definitely deserved his ass handed to him, but I don't think church discipline was the way to go.

In a third case, a man raped a mentally disabled woman and went to jail for it, but he *wasn't* church disciplined because he wuz sooooorrrrrry for it. FTN.

Am I bitter? 

Maybe I am. 

 

[Pammy]

I think most organizations would have some sort of process (formal or informal) for handling grievances and/or some prerequisites before asking someone to get lost.

I think most "church discipline" issues tend to go away somewhere before the end of the process -- either because the person agrees and repents (in word and action), or leaves. People don't usually want to stay members of a group that keeps calling them into meetings about changing something they don't want to change. People are more likely to walk away in the middle than to stick around until they are actually asked to leave.

I've observed one process where a high-profile man cheated on his wife and left her to live with the 'other woman'. (He also stopped coming to church -- without any prompting or anything.) She kept attending. An announcement was made generally to the effect that, 'Sadly, so-n-so has made some choices that are not compatible with Christian values. We hope he changes his mind about that. In the meantime the wife has our full support in this difficult time.' This managed to squash most rumours and prevented the situation from being ambiguous enough to be seen as potentially equally the wife's fault.

In another "church discipline" situation an engaged couple (who were youth group leaders) together 'confessed' to premarital sex (resulting in pregnancy) and apologized for being a poor example. I think they stepped down as leaders. Things with them went on as usual: the planned wedding, the baby shower, etc.