Lori Alexander 20: Evil and Hateful as Ever

[Coy Koi]

2 minutes ago, onemama said:

No I'm not. 

I still don't think her husband is your business, and if you think it is, then PM her your concerns. The way you aired them here it sounds like you're anything but concerned about her. It's part of a post where you're calling for her not to be accepted here. 

That is a tough one. I don't know what to say because I think this is the price of freedom of expression. I really wish people weren't so loud with their opinions about issues that are so personal.  As I said above, there are opinions I hold that I'd rather discuss in an atmosphere of trust because I think I may have to reconsider them and because I care about how other's feel. I don't consider an online debate the place to do that.  Still, I don't think censorship helps, either.  

Her husband isn't my business unless she chooses to make him my business, which she did. I actually wasn't trying to call her out about that in a hurtful way, but I can understand where it seemed that way since I did it at the same time I WAS trying to call her out about other things. My mistake.

Again, no one is advocating censorship. I want her to express her beliefs as freely as can be. I also want her to freely decide to hold less harmful beliefs.

[SuperNova]

@Coy Koi I have a daughter that also falls in the LGBTQ spectrum. It is hard to read a blog like Lori's or FreeJanaDuggar and try not to take it personally. I don't believe censorship of opposing views is necessary, though. @Free Jana Duggar is here on FJ, reading and contributing and I believe that by keeping lines of communication open, there is a chance for everyone to learn something and maybe change their point of view.

[purjolok84]

On 2 June 2017 at 6:20 AM, AuntKrazy said:

This tragedy was a major catalyst in my own movement away from fundamentalism, but I will never call what happened "good" or a "blessing in disguise" or any of the other many ways people tried to dress it up.  This teaching that neuro-bioligical processes of the brain must be controlled only by God is as dangerous as telling an insulin dependent diabetic that if one trusts God enough, one will no longer need insulin.  

It's just nonsensical - and since it's common thinking even outside religious circles to put off treating mental health properly and take it seriously, it's harder to address when there's a spiritual aspect to it.

As a child I lived with several undiagnosed mental/neuro conditions and physical conditions. The asthma was treated, the migraines were treated (sparingly, as my mother didn't believe in providing a great deal of pain meds for kids) but everything else was ignored, and what couldn't be ignored was screamed at or made to feel guilty. So I didn't get help until I was an adult.

No one would even consider taking away my Ventolin inhaler, or the ongoing meds I take now to control the number of migraines I have. But the concern, judgement and 'So many pills!' line I get because of my ADs/ADHD meds ... if they even considered throwing the devil in the mix I think I would be done with them. If I were a Christian I'd view it as: God has given me a sound mind ... but at the moment I'm unwell. I do what I can to help myself along (prayers, meds and psych) and hope to be restored and well soon. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

[KDA]

1 hour ago, purjolok84 said:

It's just nonsensical - and since it's common thinking even outside religious circles to put off treating mental health properly and take it seriously, it's harder to address when there's a spiritual aspect to it.

As a child I lived with several undiagnosed mental/neuro conditions and physical conditions. The asthma was treated, the migraines were treated (sparingly, as my mother didn't believe in providing a great deal of pain meds for kids) but everything else was ignored, and what couldn't be ignored was screamed at or made to feel guilty. So I didn't get help until I was an adult.

No one would even consider taking away my Ventolin inhaler, or the ongoing meds I take now to control the number of migraines I have. But the concern, judgement and 'So many pills!' line I get because of my ADs/ADHD meds ... if they even considered throwing the devil in the mix I think I would be done with them. If I were a Christian I'd view it as: God has given me a sound mind ... but at the moment I'm unwell. I do what I can to help myself along (prayers, meds and psych) and hope to be restored and well soon. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

I have a neurological disorder. It is a very visible one. More than once, people have offered to perform an exorcism to get rid of the "evil spirits" within me. I guess they believe this will 'cure' me. There is no 'cure' for what I have, and it's not caused by evil spirits. 

I'm a Christian, and I believe God made me exactly as I am, neurological disorder and all. Why He chose to give me this disorder, I will never know. But I don't believe that having this disorder somehow makes me less of a Christian (as some have suggested over the years) and I will continue to treat this disorder using both natural and pharmaceutical methods, and not get all upset because I can't "pray it away". It won't magically disappear if I read my Bible either but I wish it was that easy!

[childerowland]

11 hours ago, littlemommy said:

I hate Lori. And Ken. But I do think it's a little cringeworthy that we are appealing to the man of the relationship to "control" his wife (in a way) and make her stop spewing her hate. I mean, I want her to. Badly. But trying to appeal to Ken to "put his foot down", so to speak? It's squicking me out.

I agree.

I also feel uncomfortable with the 'poor Ken', 'free Ken' sentiment that seems to comes up regularly. It's sexist to blame a woman for a man's misogyny. Ken is an adult, he should be held responsible for his own (reprehensible) views. His ridiculously long-winded, pontificating screeds on Lori's blog and here indicate not only that he holds misogynistic views but that he actively enjoys and relishes sharing them. Remember - this is the man who believes in 'physical discipline' for wives, that most women are 'out of control', and who describes working women as 'whores of Babylon'. He is absolutely no better than Lori, and could be considered worse, since he appears to have more intelligence AND fully believes he is a Superior Human Being (as a man).

As for the Tales From My Heart blog, apart from the posts objecting to Lori Alexander, the rhetoric it employs bears a striking resemblance to Lori's. 'Elitist feminazis' anyone? 

[jerkit]

Yeah, Free Jana Duggar, you are in NO place to "take her down." Lori would read the rest of your blog and jump for joy.

[Curious]

Just reminding people that we allow differing opinions here and we have several members that I can think of off the top of my head that are pretty conservative (both regarding religion and politics).  They are valuable members of the community and some of them have been here for many years.

Unless someone is talking about their, to the majority of us, inappropriate views HERE we try not to berate them for their thinking.  It doesn't do anything to help a person understand or change views if they are constantly being berated.

I realize that FJD posted a link to her blog here, but it was clearly about the Lori post.  I understand that once the link is posted, people are free to read her other posts, but since she is not bringing those views into discussions here (to my knowledge), lets please not all jump on her.

In this particular case, her blog may be a better tool to reach people that are likely to view Lori's blog, so it's a better source than we likely are.   I haven't read her blog.  I don't intend to read it, either.   My concerns run to what she is talking about here and as far as I can tell, she is posting appropriately and not harping on how her views are better because xyz.

 We don't know why she is here.  Maybe it's because of Lori.  Maybe she is rethinking some of her views.  Maybe she just digs our snark.  Whatever the reason, ganging up on her is not going to change any of her views.

Please just keep this all in mind when interacting with her.

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, onemama said:

What makes a belief unacceptable?

You really have to ask this question? You can't think of something that would make a belief unacceptable? I can think of a very long list. 

Can we send the Trump fan to the politics section? Pretty please? I want one of his fans to come and explain to me how they justify his terrible, terrible behavior.

Ken will do nothing about Lori unless it starts impacting his money. And even then Ken admitted Lori doesn't obey him. For all her talk, Lori is hardly a submissive wife and she would make Ken's life hell if he tried to tell her what to do, so I really doubt he will say one word to her. @Ken feel free to clear that up. 

[RosyDaisy]

FJD posted her blog for all to see. Therefore, she becomes fodder for snark like other fundie bloggers. Her FJ membership shouldn't give her a free pass.

[Curious]

1 minute ago, RosyDaisy said:

FJD posted her blog for all to see. Therefore, she becomes fodder for snark like other fundie bloggers. Her FJ membership shouldn't give her a free pass.

If she talks about her views her that is one thing.  She is not free game simply because she holds views that are not the same as the majority here.  She is posting HERE in line with our guidelines.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Curious said:

In this particular case, her blog may be a better tool to reach people that are likely to view Lori's blog, so it's a better source than we likely are.   I haven't read her blog.  I don't intend to read it, either.

Her blog is bad. Like in some areas Lori level of hate bad. . She is a vile fundie who uses her blog to teach and spread hate. If I stumbled upon her blog I would have immediately started a thread to talk about how awful she is. 

But dang, I went there thinking people were probably overreacting and this was going to be an love, honor and vacuum sort of blog, but nope, this is a downplay sexual assault on women, think police assault on a teen is okay, trying to get creation taught in public schools, oppress anyone who isn't straight, tell women that if they don't have enough sex with their husband their husband might cheat on them sort of blog. 

ETA: I don't think she should be banned or followed around being harassed, but I'm not sure that her blog should be off limits just because she happens to be a member here. She wouldn't be the first or only FJ fundie member we also snark on. 

[Curious]

On mobile so can't quote (yes I am too dumb to figure it out) so just going to @formergothardite

If her blog was found organically and she was a member here it would be different. She posted it here, but her intent was obviously to show us the Lori post.  

As far as I am aware, she is not here to espouse her views that run contrary to the majority.  Unless she starts doing that, I don't want to see people following her around berating her. (Not suggesting you would do that, FG).

She appears to be reading things we are saying about Lori and isn't defending her even though they have similar viewpoints.

We have members here with different views, which is good 

I have the hives for no apparent reason and had to take benedryl.  Please don't burn the place down while I am in a benedryl induced coma.  Also, further discussion on this should go to community discussion at this point 

Thanks!

[onemama]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

You really have to ask this question? You can't think of something that would make a belief unacceptable? I can think of a very long list. 

So can I. It was a question for Coy Koi. 

I know that merely disagreeing with a belief doesn't make it unacceptable. Neither does not understanding it.  But wanting to silence someone because they don't support your beliefs or they say something that goes against them (though they accept them as valid for you ) is not right. In my opinion, that's what's happening here. 

38 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Her blog is bad. Like in some areas Lori level of hate bad. . She is a vile fundie who uses her blog to teach and spread hate.

Has she called herself a teacher?  Has she said that everyone should see things the way she does?  Is she censoring comments on her blog?  As far as I know, she hasn't set herself up as an authority in anything. She uses her blog to air her thoughts and views, some of which I disagree with and would not recommend she talk about the way she does.  But she hasn't set up business as Mentor Supreme, holding one-page "bible" online studies for women. She isn't hosting hateful abusive tirades of angry men.  

I think there's a difference. But you are entitled to your views, of course. 

[polecat]

6 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

She's not just blogging. She's voting.

I have not commented on her blog or her views. I read a bit of the blog yesterday and wasn't entirely sure it was hers or not. I didn't agree with a lot of what I'd read but also didn't feel like I needed to comment, either. *shrug* I'm sure lots of FJers hold views with which I disagree.

But this comment and its whiff of disenfranchisement? Whew. Just because people hold diametrically opposed views to us doesn't mean we should resent or deprive them of their right to vote.

[crawfishgirl]

This comment was on her fb under her doodle about parents buying kids cars, iphones, etc.

Quote

Lindy Johnson Work is a good thing. It was created BEFORE the fall! 

My kids are 6 and under, but half of all money they make goes into a savings account.

We expect them to never go into debt, even for a home, so they must start early. 

If they want toys, they will need to buy it with the half they did not have to save. 
Birthdays are usually experience or educational gifts.

I find it a bit strange.  

So kids 6 and under have to buy their own toys?  Did they not have rattles and other basic toddler toys, unless they bought them themselves??  Are they old enough to understand the concept of saving money?  How are they able to make their own money??  Hopefully she's just referring to gifts of money, such as from grandparents, but she is saying that they make money.  Do toddlers get an allowance?  Maybe preschoolers can get paid for sweeping the front porch and other small tasks.   This is just strange and hard to believe.

 

[EowynW]

No debt even for a home. Bullshit. My husband and I literally were just having a decompressing moment last night, talking about how such fundie views really hindered us growing up and how ill prepared it made us for getting out on our own in the real world. 

[crawfishgirl]

@EowynW just in case you aren't familiar with the ridiculous Maxwells (which is a huge rabbit hole), here is their book on buying a home - http://www.titus2.com/buying-a-house-debt-free.html

I've never read it, but others have mentioned how silly and unbelievable it is. 

 

[polecat]

10 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

This comment was on her fb under her doodle about parents buying kids cars, iphones, etc.

I find it a bit strange.  

So kids 6 and under have to buy their own toys?  Did they not have rattles and other basic toddler toys, unless they bought them themselves??  Are they old enough to understand the concept of saving money?  How are they able to make their own money??  Hopefully she's just referring to gifts of money, such as from grandparents, but she is saying that they make money.  Do toddlers get an allowance?  Maybe preschoolers can get paid for sweeping the front porch and other small tasks.   This is just strange and hard to believe.

 

3

It sounds like the kids get educational gifts (so maybe educational toys?), and the kids are on their own for other stuff. I tend to do this for Christmas gifts -- something they want, something they need, something to wear, something to read. (I also usually get something for them to do, like a craft or kit). I don't just buy a bunch of toys or splurge gifts. 

But I won't swear that this is what she's saying here. 

[smittykins]

I'm all for teaching kids to save early, but expecting them to buy their own toys at six(unless they're parent-sanctioned educational ones)does seem a bit extreme.  YMMV.

[lilwriter85]

In certain circumstances it is possible for someone to buy a home without debt. There many areas in the US where it just isn't possible to buy a house in cash. It's good that Lindy is teaching her kids to save, but she is extreme with them buying their own toys at a very young age. You can have save up a lot, but then shit happens. Lindy also doesn't consider that many things involved with cost of living will be different once her kids reach adulthood.  I don't get why having a mortgage is seen as a such as such a bad thing by fundies. As long you have mortgage payment within your means and are responsible about other finances and bills the mortgage shouldn't be seen as a horrible thing.

[formergothardite]

8 minutes ago, lilwriter85 said:

I don't get why having a mortgage is seen as a such as such a bad thing by fundies.

According to the expert on the subject, Steve, it puts you in bondage and you can't have true peace with Christ

[dairyfreelife]

I always heard the concept of a sound mind differently- 2 Tim 1:7 says "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." I never understood or heard anyone say it means mental illness doesn't exist. It was understood to mean that we need not be fearful because we have god. He could keep a sense of peace, of ease, aka a sound mind or peace of mind. Where Lori reads that and takes that to mean mental health issues aren't real things is a massive leap. 

I'm also quite confused by her post on teenagers. I only knew maybe a handful of teenagers who actually had cars of their own and this was the early 2000s. Small TVs weren't that expensive, but not everyone had them or phones, let alone the latest phones. Only the wealthy teens had parents buy them new phones even then. Then again I didn't grow up in a wealthy suburb in California like Lori's kids or attend private schools so most kids I knew ranged from middle class to poverty with only a small handful that would be considered wealthy. Typical middle class suburbs in my area were your standard split-levels and small box colonials with 2 floors (3-4 bedrooms and 2 baths up and kitchen/living or family room/dining area and maybe a half bath and laundry downstairs was typical-no extra rooms, those with an extra room like a living room and a family room and not in a basement were considered upper middle class to wealthy). However, most people didn't even live in those, often in smaller dwellings with 2-3 bedrooms and one level or apartments/townhomes or trailers (mobile homes). I grew up in an economically depressed area that was once very industrial, a chemical valley as it was once called, which dropped out. Also coal mining, which is hard to come by and layoffs are frequent. The entire state has never recovered and rural areas of suffered the most with pull outs of a massive company the residents relied on-no company means no jobs and no real way to find another since it was the only real employer in the area. 

You cannot convince me for a moment that Lori's own children didn't have far more than some of the people I grew up with. I grew up with children who were sometimes homeless or on the verge of homelessness. Children who lived where because it was winter they didn't get baths. I would love to take Lori to my home state and show her people living in shacks and trailers that look like a strong wind would break them in two, no electricity relying on wood-burning stoves for heat and cooking, poorly educated and unable to get a job in their location and unable to move because they lack the education for a real job and can't go back to school because they don't have internet or a computer and the closest location is too far to walk and they don't have a car. They likely had to drop out of school to help support their parents who were always extremely poor. They can't get a job because there are none and rely on food stamps and school breakfast and lunch programs and summer food programs to feed their children and rely on donations for simple things like coats and shoes and her children rely on the donated backpacks with school supplies to help in their education-stuff like pencils, notebooks and paper, not fancy gadgets. Such children don't have TVs or iphones, they don't even have proper fitting shoes or a warm winter coat. If Lori wants to think these people don't exist, she really is living in a complete fantasy world because they do. I have seen it, I grew up with them. 

I won't lie, I never went without. We got plenty of gifts each Christmas and birthday. I never had to worry about going hungry or not having a roof over my head. We always had transportation. We went camping and to the beach every summer for vacations. We had plenty of clothes to wear. We never had an allowance. My mom would pack my siblings lunch and wake them up for school-I was independent so preferred to do it all myself, and my parents would drive us to and from our practices, lessons and games, helped us pay for many things and we were not required to do household chores. Yet we all ended up helping around the house as needed and grew up to be decent caring people able to grow up and get an education and jobs and function just fine in the real world. We also saw those around us without anything we had and managed to develop a compassionate nature. Two out of three stayed with Christianity though my younger brother may not stay with it honestly. He seems to be questioning a lot-he's a very intelligent person and yes, I will totally brag here ; ) . Our public school educations didn't stop us from being Christians. Our ability to question and think and being literate did that for me and probably my brother too (he's still young so will see). 

15 minutes ago, lilwriter85 said:

In certain circumstances it is possible for someone to buy a home without debt. There many areas in the US where it just isn't possible to buy a house in cash. It's good that Lindy is teaching her kids to save, but she is extreme with them buying their own toys at a very young age. You can have save up a lot, but then shit happens. Lindy also doesn't consider that many things involved with cost of living will be different once her kids reach adulthood.  I don't get why having a mortgage is seen as a such as such a bad thing by fundies. As long you have mortgage payment within your means and are responsible about other finances and bills the mortgage shouldn't be seen as a horrible thing.

I guarantee you Aunt Lori had a mortgage and still might, so not sure why she'd prattle on about that, but it's Lori we are talking about-The Queen of do as I say, not as I do or have done happily

[Destiny]

I am certain Aunt Lori has or had a mortgage. The area she lives in would have been in the 260k+ range when they moved in.

It's probably in the 800s now.

[Coconut Flan]

It's about a million or a bit more for that house now.  It was I think $450K or so when they bought it. 

[Destiny]

It's about a million or a bit more for that house now.  It was I think $450K or so when they bought it. 

Yikes!

I guess my memory of housing prices in the area from 30 years ago was flawed, and the market has rebounded more than I noticed. I haven't paid all that much attention since the crash.