Where in the World is Doug Phillips? Part 13

[hoipolloi]

22 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm at a loss how a young earth creationist could be awarded a PhD in any way  related to geology from any reputable university. 

I have to believe that these people hid a lot of their wackjob beliefs, particularly in academia. Like the rest of the ICR board, the Morrises have legitimate academic credentials. Henry got his PhD from U Minnesota & the son got his PhD from U Oklahoma.

All of the board members appear to have worked in various real world jobs -- academia, military, business -- before joining the nutwad brigade at ICR. It would be interesting to know just how well they functioned in a non-fundie setting and especially if any of their colleagues noticed their bizarre beliefs.

 

[Howl]

18 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

I have to believe that these people hid a lot of their wackjob beliefs, particularly in academia. Like the rest of the ICR board, the Morrises have legitimate academic credentials. Henry got his PhD from U Minnesota & the son got his PhD from U Oklahoma.

I'm gobsmacked.  Yes, they must have hidden it well. 

Also, the older Morris could be more closeted because he was into YEC pre social media.  

[Columbia]

You can find “Raising the Allosaur” here. They talk a little about ICR and the other orgs/people involved in “finding” the allosaurus skeleton. There is, of course, a big push for paleontology to be done by individuals and families and move away from universities and large corporations. 

[hoipolloi]

16 minutes ago, Columbia said:

You can find “Raising the Allosaur” here. They talk a little about ICR and the other orgs/people involved in “finding” the allosaurus skeleton. There is, of course, a big push for paleontology to be done by individuals and families and move away from universities and large corporations. 

Thank you! DPIART scrubbed this "documentary" from the web and VF long ago, after it came to light that he & the DeRosas had fraudulently claimed to have discovered the allosaur.

There are many twists and turns to this bizarre fundie story, involving the Creation Museum (where the allosaurus has ended up) and none other than Mark "J6" Meadows. 

Man, that video is classic VF -- young, unbearded Dougie strutting about & pontificating, fawning fundies hanging on his every word, the dramatic music, and of course over all, the endless LIES.

[Columbia]

6 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Man, that video is classic VF -- young, unbearded Dougie strutting about & pontificating, fawning fundies hanging on his every word, the dramatic music, and of course over all, the endless LIES.

I never realized before, he only talks out of one side of his mouth. Did he previously have a stroke?

[bea]

Do you think anyone from those families will ever SAY anything about growing up in that deeply bizarre and damaging subculture?

I try to imagine what it would have been like, for the Phillips kids, where they were part of this patriarchal fundamentalism where the girls did womanly things and the boys did manly things and girls stayed at home until marriage and Mom and Dad were the model of a happy marriage.  Lourdes was their childcare provider, IIRC.  Did they know about the abuse?  Did they see what Doug was doing? 

And then everything fell apart and they went from Princes and Princesses of Vision Forum to just some kids somewhere with a dad who was out of the picture and a mom who was working full time living in (I'm trying to remember) a run down house somewhere.  It's been so long!  Did she keep homeschooling, or did they go off to school?
I look at the Phillips girls like Jubilee and Doug/Beall would have NEVER allowed that kind of look, or level of independence, back in the VF days.  Do you think the kids have ever thought about the fact that their dad upended everything about their lives, ditched them and their mom (from all appearances), and went off to live as a bohemian filmmaker shooting pictures of burlesque dancers?

It's always so amazing, the way that the fundies just.....move on.  Something falls apart, there's a scandal, there's a theft, abuse, whatever, it's just left behind and never mentioned again.  No WONDER there's sites like this one, because God knows the fundies are never going to track the various ways they've changed their stories over the years.

[neuroticcat]

I wonder if it might hit when most of them are in their 30s or 40s. I don’t think they will all write books about it, but for all we know they are speaking/talking about it in their communities or other ways. 

[Columbia]

2 hours ago, bea said:

I look at the Phillips girls like Jubilee and Doug/Beall would have NEVER allowed that kind of look, or level of independence, back in the VF days. 

I’ve wondered the exact same thing about the girls. College, jobs, clothing that would never have made it to a VF father-daughter retreat. It’s amazed me that the girls in particular have transitioned so easily to post-VF life. I thoroughly expected at least one to deconstruct and start a Twitter. It does make me wonder if there might be money involved somewhere, and no one has spoken up out of fear of being cut off.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s easier to pretend like harmful things never happened. It’s easier to pretend like they’ve always lived this way. It’s easier to tell yourself that you used to dress differently because it was “just a phase.” I imagine there’s a lot of denial in the Phillips family. 

[Howl]

19 hours ago, bea said:

It's always so amazing, the way that the fundies just.....move on. 

My pet peeve.  Erika Shupe was a "fuggidaboudit" superstar.  She was adamantly skirts only, Quiverfull, homeschool OR ELSE, yada yada.  Then one day she outed herself on SM thinking she'd invented reading a book to pass the time while waiting to pick up the kids after public school.  Now she wears shorts!  

ETA: Just checked  her FB.  She's tanned and healthy, looks like a daughter got married in October, there are lots of lovely dovey pics with hubby, and SHE WEARS SKINNY JEANS WITH TORN KNEES and in her fb cameo pic with Bob (I think that's the husband) she's wearing shorts. 

Edited February 25 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

17 hours ago, Columbia said:

It’s amazed me that the girls in particular have transitioned so easily to post-VF life.

I have wondered sometimes if the Phillips family didn't actually live the way they told others to live. Doug is such a con artist and it seems that Be-all went right along with it, so I could see them having private lives that did not comport with what they preached. Then again, I'm glad that their kids, especially the daughters, seem to have many more choices now. That said, has Be-all ever encouraged them to pursue higher education of some kind, the way she did -- she graduated from William & Mary where she met DPIAT?

 

19 hours ago, bea said:

It's always so amazing, the way that the fundies just.....move on.  Something falls apart, there's a scandal, there's a theft, abuse, whatever, it's just left behind and never mentioned again.  No WONDER there's sites like this one, because God knows the fundies are never going to track the various ways they've changed their stories over the years.

Yep. They are so dishonest, especially the ones like the Phillips and their erstwhile bffs, the Chanceys and the McDonalds, who all profited off the drivel they pushed on others, derailing or even destroying peopleʻs lives. Given their current life choices, they have NEVER once apologized or even acknowledged the harm they perpetrated. They have just...moved on. 

[neuroticcat]

I wonder, too, if there's some shame for the younger ones. For some people, telling their story might be empowering, for others, it just might be traumatizing or embarrassing. You see it even with the loyalest Bates women looking back on their frumper days. All the more if you are embarrassed of the beliefs themselves. 

Also, being truthful would mean (for the older ones) reckoning with the complicity. For sure, the parents who used their influence to push that mindset on others. But I imagine there were perks to being fundie royalty. I imagine that's super complicated to reckon with, especially if you don't have therapy.

[MamaJunebug]

One of the Junior Junebugs is really into vintage dressing and grooming, and so when I came upon an Instagram of a young woman, putting her long hair into pin curls, I watched  only to be - what is the word? Horrified? Traumatized? Not really surprised? - shocked? to realize that it was one of the Phillips girls, whoever goes by the name sewingtreble. Golly Moses, talk about mixed reactions. Her tutorial was instructive, but she is one of the Phillips princesses reduced to plasma-selling at one point!  I hope all the kids do way better than anyone expects them to. 

[Howl]

I suspect that at least the two kids that went to School O'Sproul are still fundy and possibly quiverfull.  The daughter who went to School O'Sproul  had a kid pretty quickly after she married. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they are quiverful until they can’t take it anymore. 

[CyborgKin]

On 2/7/2023 at 6:53 AM, Howl said:

That pic looks like a Village  People reunion. 

From Doug's eulogy of John Morris: 

"Dr. Henry’s [John Morris' father] scientific specialty had been hydraulic engineering, while Dr. John earned his PhD in geological engineering. The former was especially well-suited for evaluating flood models and the latter for the geological and fossil record. Both disciplines provided a helpful academic foundation for deeper inquiries within the creation/evolution debate."

I'm at a loss how a young earth creationist could be awarded a PhD in any way  related to geology from any reputable university. 

Also, hydraulic engineering is not a scientific specialty, it's an engineering specialty. 

Some convert late in life, e.g. https://creation.com/dr-ron-neller

Oh and there's the ones who write books like this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5079924-slaughter-of-the-dissidents

[Cults-r-us]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:35 PM, bea said:

Do you think anyone from those families will ever SAY anything about growing up in that deeply bizarre and damaging subculture?

It's always so amazing, the way that the fundies just.....move on.  Something falls apart, there's a scandal, there's a theft, abuse, whatever, it's just left behind and never mentioned again.  No WONDER there's sites like this one, because God knows the fundies are never going to track the various ways they've changed their stories over the years.

There's sites like this one because the VF schtick was so preposterous and snarkable from the start (looking at you, Dougie, Queen Beall, Scotty Brown, Bradrick!). And the fallout! @Bea, you are correct. We will never get an explanation - and we would concede it's none of our business if they hadn't made it our business by telling everybody how to live. 

[thoughtful]

Dougie wrote:

Quote

There was the charming bulldog, Dr. Dwayne Gish, whose indefatigable efforts in debate, speech, and writing had opened the minds of many to biblical creationism and inspired a new generation to enter scientific disciplines.

Duane Gish was such a dishonest interlocutor that the habit of rushing through a bunch of different crap, without letting the other person get a word in, is called a Gish Gallop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

The first time I heard the expression, I had hopes that it had something to do with Dorothy or Lillian on a horse, but, alas, no.

[Howl]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:35 PM, bea said:

...and a mom who was working full time living in (I'm trying to remember) a run down house somewhere.  It's been so long!  Did she keep homeschooling, or did they go off to school?

...out of nowhere they moved to Durango, CO for a year or two or three after the Boene Christian Assembly implosion, with an interlude of attending a mainstream Baptist Church in Austin. 

Durango was Doug's celebration-of-the-human-body bohemian phase. I think (not 100% sure) they attended this Four-Square (Aimee Simple McPherson) denomination church:  The River Church.   The "What we Believe" section of the website is pretty basic: grace alone, etc.  

I'm intrigued by this though.  They don't say the Bible is without error, the phrasing is slightly different: "

"The Holy Scriptures: We believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God: true, immutable, steadfast, and unchangeable (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)."

  They ended up in San Antonio, TX.  Beall continued to homeschool, AFAIK.   The youngest daughter should be done or pretty close to done by now.  But would we know if the  youngest kids did a stint in the evil, demon riddled public school system?  No we wouldn't. 

That said, I'm fairly certain that Beall maintained a structured homeschool environment,  and that the kids received a good educational foundation, at least through high school.  There would be tons of home school co-ops and a way for the two youngest to make friends.  

I do truly wish the two youngest would continue on in the excellent San Antonio College system or other community college options.  There are options for health care degrees at various levels in San Antonio.  Even School O'Sproul would be good.  

Is anybody current on the older son who worked on a fishing boat in Alaska, had a broken engagement to an MLM princess and was also a bartender?  He blogs, but can't remember his name.  

 

[thoughtful]

47 minutes ago, Howl said:

Is anybody current on the older son who worked on a fishing boat in Alaska, had a broken engagement to an MLM princess and was also a bartender?  He blogs, but can't remember his name.  

 

Justice - I couldn't find anything new.

ETA - here's the blog:

https://www.thejusticephillips.com/blog

Edited March 9 by thoughtful

[Howl]

Thanks for that, @thoughtful.  I find him to be one of the more interesting Phillips' kids.  

Curious about how his life will unfold as the years go by.   Usually at some point, there's a need to get a full-time steady job with benefits -- sometimes triggered by marriage and kids or other events. 

Edited March 9 by Howl

[Rattytattycatty]

Hey, everyone. I just joined. I recently found out a guy I met at my old job two years ago is Doug Phillips. I only knew his first name and that he was primarily a director and cinematographer. He was super friendly and we’ve kinda stayed in touch (as friends. He never made any kind of advances). Needless to say, I was really shocked when I figured out his full name. I literally just spoke to him a few days ago. His instagram is mostly just about his projects. He has never once mentioned a family to me but he doesn’t talk about much other than his work. I always thought it was odd but we aren’t close so it wasn’t my business. Anywho, thanks for letting me join. 

[Mrs Ms]

7 minutes ago, Rattytattycatty said:

Hey, everyone. I just joined. I recently found out a guy I met at my old job two years ago is Doug Phillips. I only knew his first name and that he was primarily a director and cinematographer. He was super friendly and we’ve kinda stayed in touch (as friends. He never made any kind of advances). Needless to say, I was really shocked when I figured out his full name. I literally just spoke to him a few days ago. His instagram is mostly just about his projects. He has never once mentioned a family to me but he doesn’t talk about much other than his work. I always thought it was odd but we aren’t close so it wasn’t my business. Anywho, thanks for letting me join. 

WOW, that would be a big surprise! Finding out someone has niche interests or (previously) worked some very random job is one thing. Finding out they were running a church that bordered on being a cult is probably something else…! 

[Rattytattycatty]

1 minute ago, Mrs Ms said:

WOW, that would be a big surprise! Finding out someone has niche interests or (previously) worked some very random job is one thing. Finding out they were running a church that bordered on being a cult is probably something else…! 

Tell me about it!! I’m still in shock. He almost filmed my wedding. He offered to do it as a wedding gift but I got married right before Christmas so he couldn’t make it. 😬

[Petronella]

4 hours ago, Rattytattycatty said:

Hey, everyone. I just joined. I recently found out a guy I met at my old job two years ago is Doug Phillips. I only knew his first name and that he was primarily a director and cinematographer. He was super friendly and we’ve kinda stayed in touch (as friends. He never made any kind of advances). Needless to say, I was really shocked when I figured out his full name. I literally just spoke to him a few days ago. His instagram is mostly just about his projects. He has never once mentioned a family to me but he doesn’t talk about much other than his work. I always thought it was odd but we aren’t close so it wasn’t my business. Anywho, thanks for letting me join. 

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. Do you mind if I ask what kind of company and what kind of job he had in it?