Bro Gary Hawkins 21: Let's PRIASE the Lord

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, Xan said:

Gary found a billboard that cheered him up.

Kevin's comment on that post:

Spoiler

Wouldn't it be great if his surviving relatives took this as what he really wanted on his tombstone, including the lecture (and misspelling) on the base?

One of his kids' names is making me want to watch a double feature of Citizen Kane and this episode of The Dick van Dyke Show:

 

Gary's latest post (I figure that's supposed to say "to ever hear"):

Spoiler

He's referring to Matthew 7:23, and the possibility that Jesus will say that to you:

Quote

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Xan]

Another comment below Gary's coffin post.

You have to love Robert's imagination here:

I wasn't aware that we got to choose our means of transportation.  Maybe I'll come back on an elephant.  I've always been partial to elephants.

Gary liked Robert's comment so I guess white horses are Jesus-appropriate.  I guess he wouldn't approve of my elephant.  

[thoughtful]

39 minutes ago, Xan said:

Another comment below Gary's coffin post.

You have to love Robert's imagination here:

I wasn't aware that we got to choose our means of transportation.  Maybe I'll come back on an elephant.  I've always been partial to elephants.

Gary liked Robert's comment so I guess white horses are Jesus-appropriate.  I guess he wouldn't approve of my elephant.  

I noticed that, and can't figure out why Gary liked it.

I didn't think coming back at all was an option - I thought the saved just go to heaven and the rest of us burn, in their theology. And the billboard in Gary's post says we won't be coming back.

Are they switching over to reincarnation now? Is Robert just referring to the dead rising from their graves before going up heaven (and is he planning to be buried with a white horse so he can do this)?

I'm so confused.

[Xan]

It occurred to me that maybe Robert was envisioning himself as one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  That's not a role I'd choose but then I'm not a fundie.  Maybe he's be okay being War or Conquest as long as he could off a bunch of heathens.

[Expectopatronus]

36 minutes ago, Xan said:

It occurred to me that maybe Robert was envisioning himself as one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  That's not a role I'd choose but then I'm not a fundie.  Maybe he's be okay being War or Conquest as long as he could off a bunch of heathens.

I kinda consider them to be pestilence so…

 

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 hours ago, Xan said:

It occurred to me that maybe Robert was envisioning himself as one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  That's not a role I'd choose but then I'm not a fundie.  Maybe he's be okay being War or Conquest as long as he could off a bunch of heathens.

He's definitely the first horseman, whom I think of as Pestilence. After looking it up he could be War or Conquest, although War is usually the second horse man who rides a red horse. Third horseman is Pestilence who rides a black horse and fourth horseman is Death who rides a pale horse. 

Then again I think Thomas Jefferson was right when he said the Book of Revelations is "ravings of a maniac"

[Ozlsn]

On 2/27/2023 at 3:17 AM, AmazonGrace said:

But, but, I thought the official story is that the dead will rise again.

Eventually, and too late for changes. To be honest I think living your life in the fear that you haven't been saved or saved the "right" way or accidentally undid your saving or didn't cause enough people to be saved by talking at them is worse than just living the way Christ suggested by actually helping and not judging people. Certainly less stressful.

[AmazonGrace]

And you know Gary would prefer that the people he doesn't like go to hell anyway.

[Xan]

OK, folks.  Gary wants us to know that he's still out there and he's still saved.

Of course, he got comments.

The discussion on "fruit" got interesting to me when it became "beat fruit".  I keep waiting for Gary to weigh in about there being no need for fruit but he might have been put off by that "useless branch thrown into the fire" part.

[thoughtful]

23 minutes ago, Xan said:

The discussion on "fruit" got interesting to me when it became "beat fruit".

Spoiler

 

[Xan]

Okay, folks.  We're back to one of Gary's old favorites:  "You're just not beating your kids enough."

Spoiler

 

[thoughtful]

Comments - besides child abuse, we get women and children ruling men being a sign of the end times, the evils of public school "indoctrination," and Gary getting defensive for no reason:

Spoiler

I looked up a bit of the quote, based on that last comment, and sure enough, it was from that show full of fornicatin', starring that liberal guy.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by thoughtful
I hadn't refreshed the page, and didn't realize xan had posted the original post and some comments already.

[Xan]

Great minds think alike!

I'm still stuck on that guy who thinks that women and children will rule over him and that's a sign of the Rapture.  I'm beginning to think that misogyny is a prerequisite if a man wants to be a fundie.  Also, I wouldn't want to be his child.

[thoughtful]

Wait - Solomon had a smartphone?

I guess it would have helped him delegate some of his work, and not have to be on the throne all the time.

Spoiler

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by thoughtful

[thoughtful]

More comments on the Andy Griffith quote post. All of the likes are from Gary.

He's liked almost every comment except the one from the guy who mentioned Andy. I don't know if Gary just didn't understand the comment, or if he realized after the fact that he'd posted a quote from an evil TV show (maybe someone else explained the comment to him), and doesn't want to delete everything because he's getting his ego fed.

Gary, you're a hypocrite.

 

[Alisamer]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:57 PM, Xan said:

OK, folks.  Gary wants us to know that he's still out there and he's still saved.

Of course, he got comments.

The discussion on "fruit" got interesting to me when it became "beat fruit".  I keep waiting for Gary to weigh in about there being no need for fruit but he might have been put off by that "useless branch thrown into the fire" part.

If they seemed to have more than 10 brain cells between them it might be fun to see them banter biblical contradictions back and forth. "You don't need fruit, but you gotta show fruit to get your rewards, but you don't have to have fruit to go to heaven, except if you don't have fruit you're worthless and will be thrown in the fire."

I kind of think fundies are what happens when people who are either black and white thinkers with no ability to understand nuance, or who are completely lacking in any empathy end up finding religion. You get either the clueless like Gary who are glad to have a rulebook to follow (that conveniently is confusing enough that they can choose to believe what benefits them most), or psychopaths like Lori Alexander who don't have normal human emotions who enjoy that religion gives them a weapon to cause suffering to others. 

Occasionally some intelligent people get sucked in, but they rarely go full fundie, it seems like. The ones who are the loudest and most strident bible beaters tend to be the unquestioningly ignorant who think they are geniuses, or the walking personality disorders.

[thoughtful]

53 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Occasionally some intelligent people get sucked in, but they rarely go full fundie, it seems like.

I think the other large contingent of people who get pulled into fundiedom or other cults are those who looking for sure answers, especially if they are in pain or in need, and/or if they think they need  an external structure to tell them how to be a good person.

And, while it varies from cult to cult, some groups have a long, slow descent from a love-bombing beginning to a more and more restrictive hold on believers, not telling them the most horrific and weirdest stuff until they are in deep.

That combination can pull in the brightest of people.

[Alisamer]

21 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I think the other large contingent of people who get pulled into fundiedom or other cults are those who looking for sure answers, especially if they are in pain or in need, and/or if they think they need  an external structure to tell them how to be a good person.

And, while it varies from cult to cult, some groups have a long, slow descent from a love-bombing beginning to a more and more restrictive hold on believers, not telling them the most horrific and weirdest stuff until they are in deep.

That combination can pull in the brightest of people.

That's very true - the more hurting or lost or confused (or desperate) you are, the more appealing it is to have a sure answer. I don't think Gary is doing more than preaching to the choir, but mega-churches and other evangelical type groups definitely are appealing to people looking for easy answers, and then they can get more and more sucked into it.

I think the love bombing part seems to apply more to some cults or religions than others, though. Like, Scientology, you don't get the crazy alien stuff until you are in so deep you are either broke financially or in a place where it would be a huge ego hit to admit you got suckered. I think Gary and his ilk aren't love bombing anyone. Bombing them with fear of hell, maybe, but there seems to be little if any love in their messages. 

I think, though, that the Gary-style fundies are less likely to draw in intelligent people capable of critical thinking, and the ones they do manage to snag are less likely to feel like they fit in or to stay permanently. They're more likely to drift to another denomination or another variation of the same one. 

You have to be pretty terrified, stuck, desperate, or conflicted I'd think, to be someone highly intelligent and educated and to have barely literate chuckleheads like Gary be your "teacher" in religion.  A successful, intelligent seeming mega-church preacher? Much more up your alley, I think. Even if the beliefs are the same. 

But you are right, anyone can get sucked into a cult, no matter how intelligent or well educated they are. 

[thoughtful]

Gary is boring and repetitive (and Becky probably fixed the spelling, but left in the RanDoM cApitaLization):

Spoiler

Comments:

Spoiler

Bobby, we get it - you don't like Catholics. Also, molecular frequencies singing? Really? What hymns do they sing? If they sing, let's say, Gershwin or Mozart, are they sinning? What if the molecule resonates with the beat and the bop and the bam?

Edited March 2, 2023 by thoughtful
punctuation

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

. I think Gary and his ilk aren't love bombing anyone. Bombing them with fear of hell, maybe, but there seems to be little if any love in their messages. 

I agree that Gary's type of fundie seems less likely to pull in educated adults, and I was thinking of things like Scientology when I mentioned the love-bombing that might work on them. You're right - it's probably pretty rare.

But I do think it's possible (not if Gary is the preacher, that's for sure!), for someone who is prone to thinking that fundamentalism is, well, fundamental, that it has some sort of basic truth to it. Or perhaps someone who has soured on what they perceive as too free-and-easy, or too intellectual, and is desperate for a simple, single answer, some sort of down-home, sentimental return to . . . something.

People never cease to be amazing, sometimes in wonderful ways, sometimes not so much.
 

Edited March 2, 2023 by thoughtful
removing repetitive redundancy that repeated itself again. :-)

[Xan]

I think the same people who are attracted to rightwing causes are attracted to some form of fundamentalism.  It's people who are looking for simple answers to complicated questions.  It difficult to explain the economics of wage increases and inflation.  It's much easier to blame immigrants or ivy league intellectuals.  It's complicated trying to understand why a loving God allows disease, death, famine, and war.  It's much simpler to claim that not enough people have faith and that the devil is waging a battle for souls. 

There's seems to be a sizable chunk of citizens who'd rather not think about things and just trust someone else to do their thinking for them.  That makes them easy marks.  And these same people don't want to read through the entire Bible to figure out a roadmap to eternal life.  It's better to let people like Gary (or Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland) decipher it for them and then just claim to be saved and move on with their lives.

[EyesOpen]

@xan knocking it out of the park. 

[FiveAcres]

5 hours ago, Xan said:

I think the same people who are attracted to rightwing causes are attracted to some form of fundamentalism.  It's people who are looking for simple answers to complicated questions.  It difficult to explain the economics of wage increases and inflation.  It's much easier to blame immigrants or ivy league intellectuals.  It's complicated trying to understand why a loving God allows disease, death, famine, and war.  It's much simpler to claim that not enough people have faith and that the devil is waging a battle for souls. 

There's seems to be a sizable chunk of citizens who'd rather not think about things and just trust someone else to do their thinking for them.  That makes them easy marks.  And these same people don't want to read through the entire Bible to figure out a roadmap to eternal life.  It's better to let people like Gary (or Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland) decipher it for them and then just claim to be saved and move on with their lives.

In atheistic and agnostic forums, a lot of people report deconverting after reading the Bible on their own. I was 13, and it took me until midway through the book of Exodus. I don't know how I got past the story of Lot and his abuse of his daughters, but I may not have quite understood what was going on.

[Xan]

1 hour ago, FiveAcres said:

In atheistic and agnostic forums, a lot of people report deconverting after reading the Bible on their own. I was 13, and it took me until midway through the book of Exodus. I don't know how I got past the story of Lot and his abuse of his daughters, but I may not have quite understood what was going on.

For me, it was Noah's ark.  Even a kid could see the injustice of it.  If God did flood the earth except for one family, what about all the babies and little children?  What about the animals?  And who was going to carry on humanity if you just leave one family?  Like I said earlier, I had a real fear of drowning early on and the thought of all those innocents sinking in the water just put me over the edge.  Whatever belief I had, I never could get back.

[thoughtful]

9 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think Gary and his ilk aren't love bombing anyone. Bombing them with fear of hell, maybe, but there seems to be little if any love in their messages. 

Quoting this again, because I forgot to say, in the previous post, that there is a form of love-bombing in Baptist fundie preaching - the "Jesus can save anyone, no matter how bad they've been" stuff. I would imagine that the people who are pulled in by that would probably already need to have a sense that there is such a thing as sin, and that they have committed some. But IFB fundies are not completely without a carrot to counteract the stick.

Another way to look at is that fundie indoctrination from birth could be seen as the worst kind of love-bombing, in a way. I know - we were talking about adults getting pulled in, but my mind went off on this drift; I'm not comparing the two things.

The adults are the source of all of the care their kids get from birth. They preach that Jesus loves them and can save anybody, and that heaven exists, so they do have a positive-sounding message, as well as the hellfire. And, while we know it's hateful, their "we're better than everyone else" implication is pretty rewarding to those that accept it.

There's a lot of approval and reward for kids who toe the line, it starts before they ever even get a chance to hear other opinions, and it's tied to the love of their family.

So many deconstruction stories I've heard are from bright people who kept their natural childhood bent for questioning, who never gave up the basic version of the scientific method that makes toddlers keep dropping something over and over to make sure it always falls downward. They wanted to believe what was true, and had a hunger for learning.

And part of those deconstruction stories, for many of them, is dealing with all of the emotions involved in their relationships with family. The people who they loved and needed from day one, and who claimed to love them (and, in most cases, probably did - not every fundie is like Jill or Gary) were the ones who raised them with all of this.

Some of them were raised with the idea that beatings from parents and the threat of hell from Jesus were necessary expressions of love. The supernatural stuff, to someone who is looking for what is real, feels like a pack of lies that their elders told them.  Lots of them realized how badly educated they were, which had to feel like yet another betrayal from parents.

It can be really heartbreaking, and even an adult who has rejected it all still needs to deal with their family and everyone's emotions. Lots of the deconstruction stories I've heard, including those of people who went from fundamentalist to atheist, are from people who still love their parents and are still loved by them.

Sad to say, kids without that spark of curiosity and desire for logic, or rebellion, or personal strength, or something out of the ordinary, can be stuck. I imagine that, for some, knowing that the people who love them taught them all of this is one of the things that keeps them thinking there must be some good in it. And even choosing a slightly different church, rather than becoming an atheist or converting to another religion, would bring up lots of emotional upheaval in themselves and from their families.

I guess the stories really struck me because I had it so easy. There was no trauma, no feelings of betrayal (on either side), in my accepting my own non-belief and mentioning it to others. Some people have to reconstruct their entire lives, and risk losing so much.