Bontragers/Bowers/Helferichs 13: In the Middle of Jesus’ First Relationship

[dawn9476]

Carver did karaoke to Taylor Swift's Love Story. at a place in their hotel in the Bahamas.'

ETA: Hayley made it into a main post on her IG for anyone who may see this after Carver's story expires.

 

Edited April 26 by dawn9476

[JermajestyDuggar]

Starting them young with chores. This is a family trait. Amish start young when it comes to child labor. I’m not shaming her for teaching her children. I’m not even against chores. However I know where this is headed. Allison will end up with a ton of kids and these two oldest will be doing so much work by the time they are 9 and 10. I feel bad for their future.

[postscript]

On the plus side, that’s an extremely cute picture of her daughter. 

But - “I work alongside them from the time they are tiny?” Allison, they’re still tiny. They haven’t even hit kindergarten age. I also have nothing against chores or teaching kids skills. But that’s a lot of work for a couple of kids whose combined ages don’t equal 6. Let them be kids occasionally. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, postscript said:

On the plus side, that’s an extremely cute picture of her daughter. 

But - “I work alongside them from the time they are tiny?” Allison, they’re still tiny. They haven’t even hit kindergarten age. I also have nothing against chores or teaching kids skills. But that’s a lot of work for a couple of kids whose combined ages don’t equal 6. Let them be kids occasionally. 

Yes, they are 1 and 2! They are still babies in my head. 

[Smash!]

Her daughter is only one and Allison is training her to do chores?! Like adding ingredients without spilling. Have children at this age even the motor skills to do that? At this age children should be doing child stuff and not work.

@JermajestyDuggar I bet it won’t be the golden penis who will have to run the household and taking care of the younger children. This duty will solely rely on Gemma and her future sisters.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Smash! said:

Her daughter is only one and Allison is training her to do chores?! Like adding ingredients without spilling. Have children at this age even the motor skills to do that? At this age children should be doing child stuff and not work.

@JermajestyDuggar I bet it won’t be the golden penis who will have to run the household and taking care of the younger children. This duty will solely rely on Gemma and her future sisters.

Definitely. But I do think the oldest boy is tasked with all the manly work. Like yard work and all that.

[Ozlsn]

15 hours ago, Smash! said:

Have children at this age even the motor skills to do that?

Seriously that was my thought too. It's one thing if kids that age (1) are helping (or rather "helping") but between motor skills and language development they should only be helping, not doing it all themselves. The way she's phrased it is she's teaching her how to run a house, at an age where most are learning to dress themselves. I really hope it is poor phrasing. Out of curiosity I looked up the Montessori chore list (in spoiler)

Spoiler

I'm amused at the kitchen list - at 18 months my child still couldn't sit up from lying down, so my idea of appropriate chores (and development!) for that age is way off.

[Smash!]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:30 AM, Ozlsn said:

The way she's phrased it is she's teaching her how to run a house, at an age where most are learning to dress themselves. I really hope it is poor phrasing.

Lots of children want to help mommy and daddy around the house and kids learn by imitating other people.

The way Allison is phrasing it (especially the „adding ingredients without spilling“) seems more like introducing chores at a very young age because otherwise those big families don’t work when kids are homeschooled. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

What a weird thing to post publicly. 

[NoseyNellie]

Allison might be a nutjob in many areas but the tasks she posted about are absolutely great for littles!  

Squishing the bread is an amazing skill to build up fine motor skills, hand strength and gives great sensory input.  Why not bread dough?  Sure better smelling than the alternative which is play-doh.  

It is never too early to teach a kid to throw items into the trash can or put near the sink.  

allowing them to sort and put the NOT SHARP silverware away is a great sorting and matching skill.  

Allowing them to put plastic cups and dishes into the dishwasher is a great trouble shooting skill as they learn to align it on the spokes or between them.  

Letting them help with cooking and mixing foods is fun and not work.  scooping, mixing, pouring are all valuable skills.  

Shoot they are short- LET THEM reach into the dryer and pull out the items and put into the basket.  This is a gross motor skill using cross body action and lots of muscles.  This uses balance and coordination and strength skills.

Have them fold the washcloths and hand towels.  Sort socks into color piles and match the sizes.  

People write me checks every month to have my teachers do lots of these things with their kids it is called PRESCHOOL!~  They will never learn these skills if we do not start teaching them.  Decades ago, preschool was not a thing.. kids did all these things along side their parents.  Kids don't KNOW these skills authentically, they are learned skills and ability is improved over time through repetition.  

[dawn9476]

Is this the Paul's home from 9 years ago when it was up for sale? I found it googling the Grand Oaks Plantation. It's outside Tallahassee. And do they own that Cow Haus Coffee company I see on Hayley's mom IG?

https://www.today.com/home/see-expansive-florida-plantation-thats-market-t13831

 

Edited April 29 by dawn9476

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, dawn9476 said:

Is this the Paul's home from 9 years ago when it was up for sale? I found it googling the Grand Oaks Plantation. It's outside Tallahassee. And do they own that Cow Haus Coffee company I see on Hayley's mom IG?

https://www.today.com/home/see-expansive-florida-plantation-thats-market-t13831

 

This is their cottage on the property they rent out on AirBnB.

 

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/25351900?source_impression_id=p3_1714429229_DIZF2dVdc6LupfHd

[GreenBeans]

8 hours ago, NoseyNellie said:

Allison might be a nutjob in many areas but the tasks she posted about are absolutely great for littles!  

Squishing the bread is an amazing skill to build up fine motor skills, hand strength and gives great sensory input.  Why not bread dough?  Sure better smelling than the alternative which is play-doh.  

It is never too early to teach a kid to throw items into the trash can or put near the sink.  

allowing them to sort and put the NOT SHARP silverware away is a great sorting and matching skill.  

Allowing them to put plastic cups and dishes into the dishwasher is a great trouble shooting skill as they learn to align it on the spokes or between them.  

Letting them help with cooking and mixing foods is fun and not work.  scooping, mixing, pouring are all valuable skills.  

Shoot they are short- LET THEM reach into the dryer and pull out the items and put into the basket.  This is a gross motor skill using cross body action and lots of muscles.  This uses balance and coordination and strength skills.

Have them fold the washcloths and hand towels.  Sort socks into color piles and match the sizes.  

People write me checks every month to have my teachers do lots of these things with their kids it is called PRESCHOOL!~  They will never learn these skills if we do not start teaching them.  Decades ago, preschool was not a thing.. kids did all these things along side their parents.  Kids don't KNOW these skills authentically, they are learned skills and ability is improved over time through repetition.  

I think all these things are great when they are done FOR the child - introduced at an age appropriate time, frequency and taking into account young children’s attention span. This means, as @Ozlsn has aptly put it, that children are “helping” rather than helping, everything takes a lot longer and some tasks may not be accomplished at all. Which is fine when it is viewed as enrichment for the child, not with the main goal of getting everything done smoothly.

But the way she phrased it, it sounded like she is introducing actual chores at 1-2 years old, and no, this is not for the benefit of the child, it is to lighten her work load.

We do include our son in everyday household tasks. He loves helping, but when he feels like wandering off to play with his toy train or look at a book in the middle of a task, that’s fine as well. He is 3 years old, he doesn’t need to do “chores”.

I actually grew up with hardly any chores. I didn’t have to cook for the family or do my own laundry, ever, while still living at home. Heck, my mom even prepared the box with my breakfast to take to school until I graduated.

Did it leave me unable to take care of my own stuff when I moved out? Contrary to public opinion, no, it didn’t. It’s not such a big deal really. Moving out for me meant moving into a dorm for studying abroad. It meant from one day to the next, I not only had to navigate everyday chores (cooking, cleaning, laundry), but also keeping up with my workload at uni and getting along in a foreign country in another language. Honestly, turning on a washing machine or making some dinner was the easiest part!

I do not mean to look down on the effort of running a family. But you can turn out completely fine and self-sufficient as a (young) adult without having done all the chores from a young age. It isn’t all that hard. Especially when you move out on your own, it’s not like you have to run a 10 people household. It’s only yourself, you figure it out and learn and grow.

[Melissa1977]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:12 PM, Smash! said:

Have children at this age even the motor skills to do that? At this age children should be doing child stuff and not work

One of my kids could empty the dishwasher at 1.5 years old  Nothing was broken! I was amazed. At some point it wasn't fun anymore, stopped doing that and that mama lost her helper!. That same kid could make a bed since a very tender age and other quite difficult *chores* like cutting fruit in regular pieces. I suppose it's because good motor skills, in fact that kid is very good with mini legos, drawing, etc.

Little kids can do a lot of work, if they are trained (AKA beaten when got bored of it and don't want to do it anymore). That's why my kid isn't a maid, while Gemma will be a full time maid soon.

[Nothing if not critical]

Apparently Carver Bowers and his wife Haley returned a week early from their honeymoon "to surprise her family". Sounds to me as if she was homesick. I guess that's what happens if you rush into marriage as a sheltered 19-year-old 🥹
Or maybe they just got bored at their fancy resort in the Bahamas ...

Spoiler

 

Edited Friday at 12:35 PM by Nothing if not critical

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m betting Haley’s parents paid for the honeymoon. Imagine getting married as a teenager and going on a honeymoon like that. 

[Caroline]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:19 AM, GreenBeans said:

I do not mean to look down on the effort of running a family. But you can turn out completely fine and self-sufficient as a (young) adult without having done all the chores from a young age. It isn’t all that hard. Especially when you move out on your own, it’s not like you have to run a 10 people household. It’s only yourself, you figure it out and learn and grow

I totally agree with you. If your chid enjoys 'helping', fine. I was the kind of kid who always liked things neat and tidy and took on picking up stuff around the house because I wanted to, not because someone made me. And I didn't need to be taught. It's really not that hard, for me anyway. I'm still a very tidy adult and our house is ready for company at any moment. It's just how I like it and once you get into the habit of putting things away and cleaning on a schedule it doesn't take hours. My friends absolutely don't believe that though. 

When we were raising our daughter we both worked full time and time together was at a premium. The only chores we expected of our daughter from around the age of 5 were: make your bed (we made it easy to do with a fitted sheet and a comforter only on the bed), put your clothes in the hamper not on the floor, and help put the dishes in the sink. She figured out how to use the washer/dryer at around 12 because she wanted to do her own laundry. She's naturally organized and tidy like me so we never had huge arguments about her room being a pig sty because it never was. She learned some cooking skills from her dad and now as an adult experiments with different recipes. For me cooking is a challenge/ for her it's not because she has natural curiosity about different foods and I don't. Her roommate is amazed at how easily she keeps their apartment in good shape because her roommate is not naturally tidy and didn't grow up with parents who were. 

It's not rocket science, and I saw it as kind of a waste of time to have my three year old fold towels, etc. unless she really wanted to help.  My three year old was much happier drawing, playing with clay, finger painting, looking at books, learning to swim, and riding her tricycle around the driveway. And thank god my daughter will never be managing a home with a dozen kids. 

[HereticHick]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m betting Haley’s parents paid for the honeymoon. Imagine getting married as a teenager and going on a honeymoon like that. 

Traditionally (in the US at least) doesn't the groom or the groom's family pay for the honeymoon? Frankly I'd get bored at one of those giant Bahamian resorts too. Still, this doesn't bode well for their future that Haley got homesick after 8-9 days away--especially since they are supposed to spend a couple of months on a missioncation next.

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Traditionally (in the US at least) doesn't the groom or the groom's family pay for the honeymoon? Frankly I'd get bored at one of those giant Bahamian resorts too. Still, this doesn't bode well for their future that Haley got homesick after 8-9 days away--especially since they are supposed to spend a couple of months on a missioncation next.

I don’t know if that’s a tradition set in stone. Most couples pay for their own honeymoons nowadays. That’s why you are so many people asking people gift to the honeymoon fund instead of bringing a gift to the wedding. But she’s a teen and her parents are living in a million dollar plantation. So I’m guessing they paid for it. 

[Giraffe]

Why would you leave your honeymoon an entire week early? That's so strange to me! I could see getting an earlier flight on the day you're already scheduled to leave but personally that's a really odd thing to do. 

Edited Friday at 07:47 PM by Giraffe
Posted too soon

[browngrl]

I hope that the reason that Carver and his bride ended their honeymoon early is because they got bored or homesick at the resort but I worry there were shades of a Debi Pearl honeymoon sort of experience. I'm probably overthinking things but if someone is leaving their honeymoon early how can this not bode poorly for the marriage? 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

A lot of these girls are sheltered and have never been away from home for extended periods of time, at least not without their family.  I was very homesick when I went to college for the first few months and I was definitely not from an enmeshed household.  It wouldn't surprise me if she considered her upbringing a happy one that she would miss them.  Katie Bates was horribly homesick for months, for example.

[Giraffe]

3 minutes ago, browngrl said:

I hope that the reason that Carver and his bride ended their honeymoon early is because they got bored or homesick at the resort but I worry there were shades of a Debi Pearl honeymoon sort of experience. I'm probably overthinking things but if someone is leaving their honeymoon early how can this not bode poorly for the marriage? 

That's exactly what I was thinking. It's weird! I can't imagine how enmeshed they are with their families - and how little bond they have with their own spouse!! - to leave a honeymoon a week early!

Edited Friday at 07:51 PM by Giraffe

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

A lot of these girls are sheltered and have never been away from home for extended periods of time, at least not without their family.  I was very homesick when I went to college for the first few months and I was definitely not from an enmeshed household.  It wouldn't surprise me if she considered her upbringing a happy one that she would miss them.  Katie Bates was horribly homesick for months, for example.

This is my guess. Haley likely has the maturity of a child, more sheltered than 99% of teens, and enmeshed with her family. She can’t handle being away for that long. 

[postscript]

13 minutes ago, browngrl said:

I hope that the reason that Carver and his bride ended their honeymoon early is because they got bored or homesick at the resort but I worry there were shades of a Debi Pearl honeymoon sort of experience. I'm probably overthinking things but if someone is leaving their honeymoon early how can this not bode poorly for the marriage? 

I had a similar thought - maybe the honeymoon wasn’t Pearl-level awful, but suddenly being alone with a member of the opposite sex and/or the physical side of marriage was shocking to one or both. For all these couples claim being married is the bestest thing ever, it’s got to be a difficult adjustment for many of them.