Bontragers/Bowers/Helferichs 13: In the Middle of Jesus’ First Relationship

[no fun funddie]

On 3/3/2024 at 4:40 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Susannah and Taylor will probably have a baby in 2024. And Allison. Those are the two Bonts I think have the best chance. 

At this concert they did just a few weeks ago Marlin mentioned 'I think 3 more on the way'... firstly I'm pretty sure he knows how many of his kids or in laws (or in-loves ... ick) are expecting, and secondly, they explained in the concert that Ike (the non Bowers travelling with them) is a friend from Marion Avenue church. It might be nice if Liz is able to do a Mitchel and escape marrying a Bower or Helferich for someone at their church, but I doubt such things would be allowed by Marlin...

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The best thing about Bontrager daughters getting married is that they stop calling their brothers their dates. 

[Smash!]

On 3/4/2024 at 7:38 PM, Mrs Ms said:

I got a diagnosis in the last 2 years for a menstrual disorder. Almost aged 40. For something I have suffered for since my teens. In retrospect the knowledge that I couldn’t just suck it up or pop an over the counter pain relief is nice, but it was 25+ years of monthly misery aside from my pregnancies. Something I mentioned more than once in that time.

I developed debilitating chronic pain from said disorder. It took me a year to finally find a specialist who connected the dots. I’d love to punch every doctor who‘s saying women should just toughen up in the face. Because so much female pain just gets normalized, it‘s insane.

[Mrs Ms]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:50 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

The best thing about Bontrager daughters getting married is that they stop calling their brothers their dates. 

IF I used the term “breakfast date” for breakfast with my brother and posted an emoji, it would be FOOD related and not bloody heart hands 🤢 Plus I have pretty private social media and know every single person on my friends list. No ambiguity about who I am eating with and definitely not for the open web. Still don't think I’d use that terminology.

[Mrs Ms]

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

I developed debilitating chronic pain from said disorder. It took me a year to finally find a specialist who connected the dots. I’d love to punch every doctor who‘s saying women should just toughen up in the face. Because so much female pain just gets normalized, it‘s insane.

This!
 

Personal experience rant hopefully in the spoiler.
 

Spoiler

I gave birth completely unmediated three times. Not because I am some kind of martyr or masochist or anti meds, but because I had had that level of pain sometimes during periods and was used to having to tough it out. It just didn’t occur to me that I could ask for something to help with the pain of contractions. And by the time other pains kicked in it was only a few minutes before the kid arrived.
That shouldn’t be a thing!

 

[Smash!]

15 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

This!
 

Personal experience rant hopefully in the spoiler.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

I gave birth completely unmediated three times. Not because I am some kind of martyr or masochist or anti meds, but because I had had that level of pain sometimes during periods and was used to having to tough it out. It just didn’t occur to me that I could ask for something to help with the pain of contractions. And by the time other pains kicked in it was only a few minutes before the kid arrived.
That shouldn’t be a thing!

 

Re your spoiler: I’m sorry you were in so much pain and diagnosed this late. It shouldn’t be this way. And it shouldn’t be that female health conditions aren’t understood because there’s not enough interest to do research. We still live in patriarchy and women are in no way equal to men.

 

 

[AverageGiraffe]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:50 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

The best thing about Bontrager daughters getting married is that they stop calling their brothers their dates. 

If it was a one off thing, or a much younger brother, I wouldn't think twice. But she is somehow going HARDER on the "date your brothers" thing than either of her sisters did, which I didn't think was possible, and it's so absolutely weird. Even if she wanted to be a weirdo about how you should be best friends with your siblings, does she *have* to give it a pseudo stand in romantic relationship vibe? I hate it more every day.

And what's going to happen to poor Rebs? What if all her brothers and sisters are married by the time she's an adult and old enough to date her brothers? WHO WILL SHE GO ON BREAKFAST DATES WITH? Stay tuned to find out, I guess. 

[0 kids n not countin]

1 hour ago, AverageGiraffe said:

If it was a one off thing, or a much younger brother, I wouldn't think twice. But she is somehow going HARDER on the "date your brothers" thing than either of her sisters did, which I didn't think was possible, and it's so absolutely weird. Even if she wanted to be a weirdo about how you should be best friends with your siblings, does she *have* to give it a pseudo stand in romantic relationship vibe? I hate it more every day.

And what's going to happen to poor Rebs? What if all her brothers and sisters are married by the time she's an adult and old enough to date her brothers? WHO WILL SHE GO ON BREAKFAST DATES WITH? Stay tuned to find out, I guess. 

Maybe with daddy??🤔

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, AverageGiraffe said:

If it was a one off thing, or a much younger brother, I wouldn't think twice. But she is somehow going HARDER on the "date your brothers" thing than either of her sisters did, which I didn't think was possible, and it's so absolutely weird. Even if she wanted to be a weirdo about how you should be best friends with your siblings, does she *have* to give it a pseudo stand in romantic relationship vibe? I hate it more every day.

And what's going to happen to poor Rebs? What if all her brothers and sisters are married by the time she's an adult and old enough to date her brothers? WHO WILL SHE GO ON BREAKFAST DATES WITH? Stay tuned to find out, I guess. 

I feel bad for Rebs. But I bet she will visit all her married siblings as much as she can. To stave off the loneliness. 

[AverageGiraffe]

On 3/12/2024 at 2:49 PM, 0 kids n not countin said:

Maybe with daddy??🤔

I'm not entirely sure Marlin remembers his children exist, outside of when he needs them to do work for him or wants someone to preach at. I can't be certain, but I'm struggling to remember a time one of the blogging girls mentioned a one-on-one dinner or coffee "date" with daddy dearest.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, AverageGiraffe said:

I'm not entirely sure Marlin remembers his children exist, outside of when he needs them to do work for him or wants someone to preach at. I can't be certain, but I'm struggling to remember a time one of the blogging girls mentioned a one-on-one dinner or coffee "date" with daddy dearest.  

They have. I don’t think he does it a lot. But it’s happened. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Allison got pushback because she posted shitty beliefs. Instead of actually contemplating those beliefs or trying to understand where women are coming from, she doubles down like a true Bontrager. 

And don’t worry Allison, we all know you try to bring in money all the time with your shitty mlm. Everyone knows. You post about it constantly. And no one cares. It was nice when you took a break from posting tradwife MLM garbage. Maybe go back to doing that again.

[HereticHick]

On 3/12/2024 at 8:37 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I feel bad for Rebs. But I bet she will visit all her married siblings as much as she can. To stave off the loneliness. 

She can be shipped off to a sibling to help out whenever a new baby is on the way. 

I keep wondering when the Bontrager Family Singers bus tours will grind to a halt. They have to use unrelated musicians now as it is. I wonder if any of the Bontager married kids are training their kids to play and would like to revive the "family band" in the future.  The Bowers also had a family band & tour bus, but that seems to have fallen completely by the wayside, by the time they marriedoff their 2 oldest girls.

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

She can be shipped off to a sibling to help out whenever a new baby is on the way. 

I keep wondering when the Bontrager Family Singers bus tours will grind to a halt. They have to use unrelated musicians now as it is. I wonder if any of the Bontager married kids are training their kids to play and would like to revive the "family band" in the future.  The Bowers also had a family band & tour bus, but that seems to have fallen completely by the wayside, by the time they marriedoff their 2 oldest girls.

I bet none of them want to tour. Marlin is the one who pushed it even if none of his kids wanted to. It’s so obvious because some of the sons stopped touring before they were even married. And then almost every single one stopped touring right after marriage and never seemed to show interest in joining any church singing. Even if it was close by. It was so obvious Allison hated touring and wanted to stay home to run the Inn. But she had to do what her daddy said. Even though she was in her 20s. 

[HereticHick]

From Liz's latest insta reel-- a "I Identify as a Patriot" sticker on her laptop. Oh, you fundies think you are so clever. Guess what Liz, I'm a patriot too-but unlike your family, many of my relatives have served in the US military, and none of us have tried to overthrow  the government. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

54 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

From Liz's latest insta reel-- a "I Identify as a Patriot" sticker on her laptop. Oh, you fundies think you are so clever. Guess what Liz, I'm a patriot too-but unlike your family, many of my relatives have served in the US military, and none of us have tried to overthrow  the government. 

Same here. Multiple family members in the military and my grandpa was a Korean war veteran. And none of my family was at the insurrection. Liz can’t say the same for her dad and brothers. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

On 3/15/2024 at 3:02 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Same here. Multiple family members in the military and my grandpa was a Korean war veteran. And none of my family was at the insurrection. Liz can’t say the same for her dad and brothers. 

Or her extended family. I would be shocked if any of the Mennonite borg had ever served in the military -though apparently it is possible, because Mennonites were still required to serve in WW1 and about 7,000 did.

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 minutes ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Or her extended family. I would be shocked if any of the Mennonite borg had ever served in the military -though apparently it is possible, because Mennonites were still required to serve in WW1 and about 7,000 did.

The thing is about Marlin and Becky is that they both have ridiculously large families. So they probably do have a cousin somewhere in the military. Marlin and Becky aren’t the only ones who left the mennonite life. So a non mennonite cousin may have joined up. But no one in the Marlin Bontrager family ever has.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Liz has never posted anything like this about her mom. And actually, the Bontragers hardly ever even talk about Becky. They will either say, “our parents” or mention Marlin specifically. I get the feeling Becky is very cold and strict. I have a father who is more warm and demonstrative with his love. While my mom is very reserved and not a touchy lovey type of person. But I knew my mom loved me and I was always close with her growing up. She showed her love through actions and caring for me. My dad always told me he loved me and gave hugs. I knew both parents loved me but they showed it differently. So I think something is off with Becky. Because even though I also have a mom who is reserved and not affectionate, I always love and appreciate her and have no problem saying it. But the Bontrager kids don’t seem to. It’s so weird. 

[Smash!]

@JermajestyDuggar: I disagree with your take. Becky doesn’t get a post like this because in their world, women are helpmeets to their husbands and don’t need/aren’t worth the recognition the mighty men deserve.

[JermajestyDuggar]

41 minutes ago, Smash! said:

@JermajestyDuggar: I disagree with your take. Becky doesn’t get a post like this because in their world, women are helpmeets to their husbands and don’t need/aren’t worth the recognition the mighty men deserve.

I could see that being the reason too. How sad. 

[0 kids n not countin]

I seem to remember them, or I suppose Chelsey (is she the one who wrote most of the posts on the blog?)  always calling their mom "Mother" on the blog.  I felt it was telling about the sort of relationship the kids had and have with her.  Or it could just be me analyzing it too much.  To me referring to one's mother as "mother" in conversation sounds so cold and impersonal.  When I talk about my mom  to others or in writing I call her mum (mummy when I was a kid).  I wonder if they all call her "Mother" when addressing her.

[HereticHick]

Never forget what kind of mother Becky is:

https://bontragerfamilysingers.com/shy-children-part-4-in-motherhood-series

Written by Becky--

"“My child is shy”.

I have heard this quote too many times to count as a young child puts his head on his mother’s shoulder, hangs on to her leg, or stands quietly beside his mother with a “shy smile” on his sweet little face.

So what is shyness?  Merriam-Webster defines it as “feeling nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people; showing that you are nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people;  tending to avoid something because of nervousness, fear, dislike, etc.”

I am forever grateful that, soon after I became a mother, someone was kind enough to explain to me that shyness was just a cover-up for rudeness.  That 2 year old who won’t say “thank-you” to his hostess for a delicious meal is, in fact, being rather self-centered.  He is thinking of his own feelings rather than the feelings of someone who may have spent hours or all day preparing for her guests so that they could enjoy a meal together.  A little child who won’t introduce himself is being rude to an adult or young friend who is taking an interest in him."

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Never forget what kind of mother Becky is:

https://bontragerfamilysingers.com/shy-children-part-4-in-motherhood-series

Written by Becky--

"“My child is shy”.

I have heard this quote too many times to count as a young child puts his head on his mother’s shoulder, hangs on to her leg, or stands quietly beside his mother with a “shy smile” on his sweet little face.

So what is shyness?  Merriam-Webster defines it as “feeling nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people; showing that you are nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people;  tending to avoid something because of nervousness, fear, dislike, etc.”

I am forever grateful that, soon after I became a mother, someone was kind enough to explain to me that shyness was just a cover-up for rudeness.  That 2 year old who won’t say “thank-you” to his hostess for a delicious meal is, in fact, being rather self-centered.  He is thinking of his own feelings rather than the feelings of someone who may have spent hours or all day preparing for her guests so that they could enjoy a meal together.  A little child who won’t introduce himself is being rude to an adult or young friend who is taking an interest in him."

I have no idea how the utterly disgusting belief that shyness equals rudness got started in certain fundy circles (Voddie Bauchum also subscribes to that BS) but they can f right off with it. Where do they get off teaching that being shy is somehow sinning? Didn't their god make each human unique? Shouldn't that unique be celebrated and supported? Instead anything outside their hyper-strict (and horrifyingly inappropriate) box is sin. I'm not shy but I would probably be labeled as such and shamed to no end for it simply because I'm reserved and am rarely one to introduce myself outside of a work environment. 
 

I live with two other women. When we get people at our door invariably the one of us who was forced to be "welcoming" when she was a child will be the one to answer the door and talk to the people at length. And y'know what? She's fully aware the only reason she does it is because it was so drilled into her as a child. She hates answering the door as much as her wife and I do! But she was taught certain social "niceties" that even well into her forties it's something she can pinpoint as a response to "I'd get beat if I didn't do this." Fuck you, Becky. Eta: in other words, she's friendly with people out in public (or her own front door) out of a trauma response, not because she's somehow less sinful than her wife or me!

Edited March 18 by Giraffe

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Never forget what kind of mother Becky is:

https://bontragerfamilysingers.com/shy-children-part-4-in-motherhood-series

Written by Becky--

"“My child is shy”.

I have heard this quote too many times to count as a young child puts his head on his mother’s shoulder, hangs on to her leg, or stands quietly beside his mother with a “shy smile” on his sweet little face.

So what is shyness?  Merriam-Webster defines it as “feeling nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people; showing that you are nervous and uncomfortable about meeting and talking to people;  tending to avoid something because of nervousness, fear, dislike, etc.”

I am forever grateful that, soon after I became a mother, someone was kind enough to explain to me that shyness was just a cover-up for rudeness.  That 2 year old who won’t say “thank-you” to his hostess for a delicious meal is, in fact, being rather self-centered.  He is thinking of his own feelings rather than the feelings of someone who may have spent hours or all day preparing for her guests so that they could enjoy a meal together.  A little child who won’t introduce himself is being rude to an adult or young friend who is taking an interest in him."

That post is why I started thinking the Bonts prefer their dad to their mom. She seems cold, strict, and just plain mean. She was their teacher and disciplinarian. I figured she was a Mrs Trunchbull type of teacher.