Josh and Anna 54: He's Listed in the BoP Database

[backyard sylph]

50 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Given that men and women pretty much wore the same thing then, what does this passage mean?

My take on this is that it was more specifically, "men, don't dress like women," much more than "women, don't dress like men." All I know is that women's outer garments were usually longer, and they wore more jewelry. I think their underwear was mostly the same sort of thing, and not meant to be seen. If you think about it, and this is true in many eras, though not all of them, a man dressed in feminine accessories stands out more as trying to be "Something He is Not." Which is icky and bad. 

Paul is the one who dragged women into thinking they shouldn't try to look fancy, in one of his letters to Timothy. And I blame him for sooo much, but all he really meant was don't be a rich show-off, it isn't humble before God. These people combined it with Deuteronomy and this resulted in the ethos: "wear long denim skirts and don't cut your hair."

[Cam]

 

Bingo

Edited June 8, 2022 by Cam

[backyard sylph]

2 minutes ago, Cam said:

 

Bingo

Lol, but Marinade does present itself. Marynade, or Merinade or Marinayde, etc. 

[Cam]

2 hours ago, imokit said:

I don't think they will.  Anna cares what people think of her and if she got pregnant while he was in jail people would judge badly and she'd care about that.

I agree. She would really be taking on massive amounts of public scrutiny and criticism for many reasons. Unless she’s a publicity addict who gets off on the controversy, I do not see why she’d want to go to extemes to get pregnant now.

One thing she’d be accused of is cheating on Josh and having another man’s baby. The speculation would be fierce about whose it was. As the saying goes, “Mama’s baby, Daddy’s maybe.”

Why take all that on? Life’s already gonna be challenging enough. She and Josh both said they’d accept the number of babies God blessed them with. Accept that your natural form of birth control at this stage of the game is prison bars, Anna.

Anna hasn’t not had a newborn/toddler for how many years? Twelve? She currently has one, but in three or four years she’ll be in a new phase of life where she isn’t just getting pregnant and delivering. It may be much to much to hope that she could see the benefits of being content with the eight kids she has and that life is full of wonderful things other than pregnancy and newborns. But it’s out there to discover. 

16 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Lol, but Marinade does present itself. Marynade, or Merinade or Marinayde, etc. 

Marrinadye. Oh yes, fun with spelling.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Cam

[Queeen Victoria]

It's my understanding that the items pertaining to a man were the religious items he wears when he prays.  These are the prayer shawl and phylacteries.  Prayers were/are said at specific times and because of the nature of a woman's duties she could not always stop taking care of a child (for example) and pray. 

I understand some people believe this admonition refers to swords and battle shields also.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

22 minutes ago, Queeen Victoria said:

It's my understanding that the items pertaining to a man were the religious items he wears when he prays.  These are the prayer shawl and phylacteries.  Prayers were/are said at specific times and because of the nature of a woman's duties she could not always stop taking care of a child (for example) and pray. 

I understand some people believe this admonition refers to swords and battle shields also.

Military garments have always made the most sense to me. But as an atheist who sees the Bible a primary as a collection of the political writings of men from a very different time and place, I'll never get why Bible believers can't 1) Acknowledge there are differing interpretations of pretty much everything and 2) Grasp why so many of us think their rules are bullshit which we have no interest in hearing about, never mind following.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

18 hours ago, SassyPants said:

She does not look healthy to me. If she is not taking care of her mental and physical health how can she possibly parent 7 kids in a healthy way? 

JB and M’s ways effed over 19 kids and now they are infecting and affecting another entire family. It’s beyond terrible and should be considered criminal. There is zero reason for this. They have the time and resources to improve this situation and they choose to ignore it.

why do you think Anna doesn’t look healthy?
 

9 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

The married daughters wore pants on Counting On, particularly Jinger.

I'm linking to this video. It's of an old talk JB and Michelle gave. Around an hour and forty minutes in, they talk about women wearing pants and it's clear that Michelle is the one who cares, not JB.

I clicked on the video, it’s over 3 hours long! Who would listen to these people for 3 hours?! 
 

2 hours ago, gustava said:

What would be an M name for a turkey baster baby? 

In addition to Marinate they could go for Masticate, Maize, Mayflower, or Meat. To include Josh the middle name would be Commissary. 

[SassyPants]

@Father Son Holy GoatIm just comparing her hair, skin and posture of her photos in the last year vs in the year prior (baby announcement for #7, holiday and wedding photos). Now admittedly, these more candid photos might have lacked full make up, hair etc… She does have plenty of reason to look worn out, and frankly probably has much less time to focus on herself.

[justmy2cents]

4 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

There’d be no need for IVF. Anna would just use IUI which is artificial insemination. It’s a lot cheaper and less invasive.

But I don’t think they would or could do either.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting she would do IVF now. I think IVF was mentioned as something they might turn to when Josh gets home from prison if they have trouble conceiving because Anna will be about 44 or 45 then.

Personally I don’t think they’ll go to the trouble.

[Cam]

Wouldn’t doctors have ethics about helping a woman get pregnant with the sperm of her husband convicted of csam possession and a history of committing child molestation? 
 

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

But as an atheist who sees the Bible a primary as a collection of the political writings of men from a very different time and place, I'll never get why Bible believers can't 1) Acknowledge there are differing interpretations of pretty much everything and 2) Grasp why so many of us think their rules are bullshit which we have no interest in hearing about, never mind following.

I consider myself agnostic, but other than that pretty much think along the same lines as you about this.

[Satan'sFortress]

What if I were cold and my husband gave me his coat to wear? Is that an abomination to the Lord? 

[Three Legs Good]

I have a theory about why the bible forbids crossdressing.  The Old Testament talks a lot about being "unclean", and women were "unclean" much of the time.  Men mostly got tainted by contact with women or with items a woman had contaminated.  Obviously, a man donning a woman's clothes is immediately "unclean", and the mere thought that a woman might have tried on his clothes when he wasn't around would probably be horrifying.  While used clothing was sold, most garments were made for a specific person - a woman wouldn't be wearing clothing intended men in general, but a specific man's clothing.  There must have been at least one woman who made her abusive husband's clothing "unclean", in the hope that the vengeful OT god would kill him when the husband went to the temple in an impure state.

[Giraffe]

35 minutes ago, Cam said:

Wouldn’t doctors have ethics about helping a woman get pregnant with the sperm of her husband convicted of csam possession and a history of committing child molestation? 

They wouldn’t know unless they know who Josh is. I doubt they google every patient or run a background check on every patient. 

[Jackie3]

43 minutes ago, Cam said:

Wouldn’t doctors have ethics about helping a woman get pregnant with the sperm of her husband convicted of csam possession and a history of committing child molestation? 
 

 

I don't think many doctors follow these boards and know the details of Josh Duggars life as well as we do.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Jackie3

[noseybutt]

I am not familiar with medical ethics around fertility.

However, I have provided treatment to women whose partners were charged with or convicted of CSAM. 

In those scenarios, I did not judge their decision to stay or to leave. They are adults, capable of making adult decisions. My job was to help them work through their own histories of trauma and dysfunction, and to help them cope with current symptoms of anxiety and depression. Healthy people make healthy choices.

I have not had a case where a female was living with her partner and underage children both. That scenario would potentially be a mandated reporting situation, although not as automatic as people might think. Some CSAM offenders are at very low risk of hands-on offending and removing children from the home is not automatic. With probation or parole oversight, I have seen it happen with forensic cases.

The article about the Israeli cases indicated that the infertility doctor thought that helping the wives get pregnant was the right thing to do because of the lengths of the sentences. There are layers of politics to that situation. 

I cannot imagine a US doctor justifying artificial insemination on political grounds, but I expect many fertility doctors do not ask detailed questions if the woman presents alone as their patient. At that point, the woman is their patient and not her partner. Their ethical obligation is to their patient.

[Cam]

I’m curious what anyone’s thoughts are on how many kids you think the rest of the married Duggars will have. I think Jill might go for four and then I hope that’s it. Jessa: I can’t really say but she may slow down after having a fourth one. What about Joy? Will she go for four and then stop? I wonder if John and Abbey will stop at two and same with the Vuolos. Joe and Kendra, tho, will no doubt keep going and may hit at least nine or ten. I don’t see Siah and Lauren having too many. Justin and Jeremiah, no clue.
 

Regarding a fertility doctor, yeah, I have no clue how any of that works. 

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

There’d be no need for IVF. Anna would just use IUI which is artificial insemination. It’s a lot cheaper and less invasive.

But I don’t think they would or could do either.

I agree.   And all this talk about Josh’s sperm is making me nauseous.

[BensAllergies]

It’s been two weeks so I looked up Joshua Duggar, convicted pedophile, in the BOP inmate search and there’s been no change.

Then I looked up a former college acquaintance and it says he is at an RRM (residential re-entry management field office). For those with BOP experience, does that mean he’s been released and is at a halfway house or under supervised release?

This dude has been my BEC since we were both 18 and we are now 33/34, but I’ll probably mention his location to my husband because it’s only 30 minutes away. My husband was better friends with him and feels like mental health contributed, and I know he would want to take a chance to help him. I know for a fact that mental health does not cause someone to walk into multiple banks across different states and commit financial fraud but ok.

[fundiefan]

I can't watch five minutes of those people much less three hours. 

I do wonder though, do they maybe wish Pecan & Priscilla were their kids instead of Josh & Anna? I mean, they play by all the rules perfectly. They are the most godly of goldy couples. He is a pastor, dontchaknow and she is the most submissive wife ever (even better than Michelle, but shhhhh, let's not talk about that). Pecan & Priscilla are the perfect poster children of IBLP - all that Josh & Anna were supposed to be but failed at achieving. 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Given that men and women pretty much wore the same thing then, what does this passage mean?

There were differences. Depending on the time period the cut and drape and sometimes the colors used would differ for men and women.  Belting would be different. Women’s head coverings would be longer/fuller.  Jewelry and other adornments were worn differently.  Young men or men who did a lot of manual labor (slaves) would wear short tunics.  Women never did.

The point of the passage was against transvestism. 

2 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

What if I were cold and my husband gave me his coat to wear? Is that an abomination to the Lord? 

😄 No, because you wouldn’t be “dressed as a man,” and that is the real issue. 

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, Queeen Victoria said:

It's my understanding that the items pertaining to a man were the religious items he wears when he prays.  These are the prayer shawl and phylacteries.  Prayers were/are said at specific times and because of the nature of a woman's duties she could not always stop taking care of a child (for example) and pray. 

I understand some people believe this admonition refers to swords and battle shields also.

I think it goes beyond that because the prohibition extends to men not dressing as women.  I think this is a prohibition against transvestism and that while the prayer shawl and phylacteries may have been at issue (women would be profaning masculine relationship with God), there was also the concern that some pagan religions allowed a certain gender fluidity in their customs and even worship rituals.  (Not just transvestism, but transgender /homosexual behavior.) 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

41 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think it goes beyond that because the prohibition extends to men not dressing as women.  I think this is a prohibition against transvestism and that while the prayer shawl and phylacteries may have been at issue (women would be profaning masculine relationship with God), there was also the concern that some pagan religions allowed a certain gender fluidity in their customs and even worship rituals.  (Not just transvestism, but transgender /homosexual behavior.) 

Could be. But thinking of the story of the man on the Titanic who supposedly threw on a shawl to get on a lifeboat, and keeping with the possibility of a military theme, it could relate to men attempting to avoid military service.

Either way, Jesus, if he existed, did not wear blue jeans or even Dockers, so what pertaineth to a man seems itself to be pretty fluid. 

[nokidsmom]

Honestly, I think that since Anna thought that Joshley would be found innocent, she never gave any thought of future kids because Joshley would be right back home.   Now that he's going to jail, I think one of the losses she's grieving is that there won't be any more babies anytime soon.   And this is assuming that she's got the time and energy to even think about it because she's got enough on her plate.  

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Also, only a linguist or true wordsmith can claim to love a word study. Everyone else is lying.

Mistake.

that could be the name for any baby after meridith....

 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Honestly, I think that since Anna thought that Joshley would be found innocent, she never gave any thought of future kids because Joshley would be right back home.   Now that he's going to jail, I think one of the losses she's grieving is that there won't be any more babies anytime soon.   And this is assuming that she's got the time and energy to even think about it because she's got enough on her plate.  

Man how much in denial would you need to be to think your husband would be let off  after being found guilty, and sitting in prison for 6 months? Josh hasn’t been free or living at home for 14 months, could Anna still be thinking he’s innocent or coming home soon? Does she not realize that innocent, privileged, white, heterosexual Christian men rarely sit for months in jail in the US?