Josh and Anna 54: He's Listed in the BoP Database

[Cam]

One great disservice JB did to his kids was thwart their education. Now not every child will develop phenomenal skills, but when I think of Venus and Serena Williams’ dad Richard, how he was there for his daughters and helped them reach superstar potential, a man with nothing who made something of his two black daughters, I get angry thinking about how JB failed his kids. One of the best things you can do for your children is help them tap into and reach their potential. This doesn’t mean they have to attain doctor and astronaut careers. But holding your daughters back to only be baby mamas and helpmeats, and dumbing your boys down so the have little marketable skills so they’re financially dependent on you is disgusting. Total and complete lack of creativity and imagination. All JB wanted to  do was raise obedient little soldiers who fell in line behind him.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Cam

[patsymae]

The more I look at Anna the more she reminds me of my own mother, who, among other things, was a narcissist with a martyr complex. It's just so close.

I don't think Anna gives a rat's ass about her kids, either their present state or their futures. They are props for her, just as children are for her idol, Meech. 

I can totally see her moving, by herself, to be close to JOSH-U-A wherever his sorry ass winds up, and actually enjoying being a prison wife. She leaves the kids with her in-laws. JBoob maintains total control, Meech can surround herself with a bunch of young blessings (which may be getting in shorter supply as some of her adult children back off).

Win/win/win for the three nonincarcerated sickos in this shitshow.

[Howl]

9 hours ago, Cam said:

One great disservice JB did to his kids was thwart their education.

The Duggars are 100% IBLP.   My impression is that every child indoctrinated through IBLP Wisdom Booklets has a thwarted education.  The entire purpose of IBLP was to turn out IBLP children with  zero critical thinking skills, not to create an adult with a well rounded education.  

 

 

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

30 minutes ago, patsymae said:

The more I look at Anna the more she reminds me of my own mother, who, among other things, was a narcissist with a martyr complex. It's just so close.

I don't think Anna gives a rat's ass about her kids, either their present state or their futures. They are props for her, just as children are for her idol, Meech. 

I can totally see her moving, by herself, to be close to JOSH-U-A wherever his sorry ass winds up, and actually enjoying being a prison wife. She leaves the kids with her in-laws. JBoob maintains total control, Meech can surround herself with a bunch of young blessings (which may be getting in shorter supply as some of her adult children back off).

Win/win/win for the three nonincarcerated sickos in this shitshow.

I’m not sure I see Anna as a narcissist. Do you have other examples?

[Jackie3]

38 minutes ago, patsymae said:

The more I look at Anna the more she reminds me of my own mother, who, among other things, was a narcissist with a martyr complex. It's just so close.

I don't think Anna gives a rat's ass about her kids, either their present state or their futures. They are props for her, just as children are for her idol, Meech. 

I can totally see her moving, by herself, to be close to JOSH-U-A wherever his sorry ass winds up, and actually enjoying being a prison wife. She leaves the kids with her in-laws. JBoob maintains total control, Meech can surround herself with a bunch of young blessings (which may be getting in shorter supply as some of her adult children back off).

Win/win/win for the three nonincarcerated sickos in this shitshow.

Wow. I don't see this at all. I see Anna as being severely in denial, clinging to the belief system she was raised in (and still resides in). But I don't see any signs she'd abandon her children. That is a pretty vile thing to do. Is Anna evil? Not sure where you are getting that. 

She supports her husband because she cannot bear that she made a terrible mistake. In that way, she reminds me of my own mother. They are both victims, trapped with an evil man, unwilling to face the truth. But evil? I don't think so.

[EmCatlyn]

34 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Wow. I don't see this at all. I see Anna as being severely in denial, clinging to the belief system she was raised in (and still resides in). But I don't see any signs she'd abandon her children. That is a pretty vile thing to do. Is Anna evil? Not sure where you are getting that. 

She supports her husband because she cannot bear that she made a terrible mistake. In that way, she reminds me of my own mother. They are both victims, trapped with an evil man, unwilling to face the truth. But evil? I don't think so.

The main reason I don’t see Anna as a narcissist is that she put up with Josh. —Seriously, Josh is very much a narcissist, and there usually isn’t room for two in a marriage.  I would guess that Anna was selected for Josh because she was yielding and willing to be subservient.   These are not narcissistic traits.

As for her having a “martyr complex,” I can see that, but I don’t see it as part of narcissism.  She may be a bit monomaniacal about her relationship with Josh, which makes her selfish, but not all selfish people are narcissists.

She is very narrow-minded and clearly making choices that may impact others without  considering their preferences.  But I wouldn’t call her a narcissist.

[patsymae]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

The main reason I don’t see Anna as a narcissist is that she put up with Josh. —Seriously, Josh is very much a narcissist, and there usually isn’t room for two in a marriage.  I would guess that Anna was selected for Josh because she was yielding and willing to be subservient.   These are not narcissistic traits.

As for her having a “martyr complex,” I can see that, but I don’t see it as part of narcissism.  She may be a bit monomaniacal about her relationship with Josh, which makes her selfish, but not all selfish people are narcissists.

She is very narrow-minded and clearly making choices that may impact others without  considering their preferences.  But I wouldn’t call her a narcissist.

Hey I wasn't diagnosing, but yes, in my personal experience it's very possible for two narcissists to co-exist in a marriage. But, okay

Still won't be at all suprised to see her in Teaxs and kiddos at the TTH

 

 

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

Wow. I don't see this at all. I see Anna as being severely in denial, clinging to the belief system she was raised in (and still resides in). But I don't see any signs she'd abandon her children. That is a pretty vile thing to do. Is Anna evil? Not sure where you are getting that. 

She supports her husband because she cannot bear that she made a terrible mistake. In that way, she reminds me of my own mother. They are both victims, trapped with an evil man, unwilling to face the truth. But evil? I don't think so.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said Anna is "evil." Oh, wait...

Edited June 13, 2022 by patsymae
added

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, patsymae said:

Hey I wasn't diagnosing, but yes, in my personal experience it's very possible for two narcissists to co-exist in a marriage. But, okay

Still won't be at all suprised to see her in Teaxs and kiddos at the TTH

I think a problem with the term “narcissist” is that it is greatly overused.  There are different ways to define a narcissist, and not all narcissists present themselves the same way.  I think also that there are people who have what we may call “narcissistic traits” without being full-blown narcissists.

I do believe that while there may be couples with complementary narcissistic traits who get along just fine, two full-blown narcissist don’t usually.  But, I am no expert.  (I have read a bit about it though, because my first husband was diagnosed as a benevolent narcissist.) 

As for Anna, she may or may not move to Texas (with or without the Ms), but I don’t think she will do it out of narcissism (as I define narcissism).  She enjoys her martyr role, to be sure, but I think her relationship with Josh may be based on her need to believe that she is a good person.

[formergothardite]

There are lots of women who stand by and rabidly support horrible men no matter the costs to themselves or their children. Anna, sadly, isn’t that unique  in her clinging to her terrible man and ignoring all the evidence that he is a monster. It is my opinion that she is one of those sorts of people who don’t want to accept their partner is a bad human. At least at this moment. She has a long time to grow into being a different person. And maybe she will. 
 

Edited June 13, 2022 by formergothardite

[Cam]

I think Anna feels abandoned by the Duggar siblings. I don’t think any responded to her “there’s more to the story” post, not even to like it. To me, that was a big pull-away-from Anna and Josh moment. No letter of support to the judge from any sibling(s) was presented. Then she was at the court sentencing alone. Not even with JB; he went by himself. During the trial, she had a little more of a posse around her.
 

So I think it was a bit of a reality check for her. Not about Josh, but about the siblings. She was probably thinking she was “one of them”. When they didn’t go all the way down the rabbit hole with her, she was probably surprised and wondered what happen to all the brotherly and sisterly love they used to show towards her. Maybe she’s seeing that they’re protecting themselves and their families, putting themselves first, and not sacrificing their well being to defend a piece of shit brother whose caused so much destruction.
 

Regarding the lack of support letters, even if Anna and/or JB had pressured some siblings to write one,  I think the Duggar kids had enough. They saw the cracks and chaos created by their father’s control. Even the ones who’d usually bow down to JB’s demands may have been empowered by the resistance of other siblings (like Jill and Joy) towards him enough to say no. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Cam

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 hours ago, Cam said:

I think Anna feels abandoned by the Duggar siblings. I don’t think any responded to her “there’s more to the story” post, not even to like it. To me, that was a big pull-away-from Anna and Josh moment. No letter of support to the judge from any sibling(s) was presented. Then she was at the court sentencing alone. Not even with JB; he went by himself. During the trial, she had a little more of a posse around her.

The lack of letters from his siblings and the total lack of support from anyone for Anna at the sentencing was all pretty glaring.

When she was seen at SDC wearing jeans, she was with another woman and her kids. The only Duggars spotted with her were her older kids; no mention of even a Jordyn or Josie, although it's been said Jordyn is Mackynzie's best friend. And the only "man" in sight was her 11 year old son. It's hard to see her sticking around the shed once Josh lands in Texas, especially with Pris and her brood nearby. Wouldn't surprise me if this has been her plan since conviction, and one reason why Josh's attorneys suggested the Texas prisons to the judge. 

[patsymae]

11 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I’m not sure I see Anna as a narcissist. Do you have other examples?

Examples of why Anna reminds me of my own mother? Because that's what I said.

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

It's hard to see her sticking around the shed once Josh lands in Texas, especially with Pris and her brood nearby. Wouldn't surprise me if this has been her plan since conviction, and one reason why Josh's attorneys suggested the Texas prisons to the judge. 

Makes sense. I am curious to see what happens. Just because her sister is there, will she feel that is enough support for her and her kids? Some say she’ll leave her kids at TTH. But how would she feel being surrounded by Pris’s brood when her own would be in Arkansas? I have a hard time thinking she’d go alone. 
 

 

13 hours ago, patsymae said:

The more I look at Anna the more she reminds me of my own mother, who, among other things, was a narcissist with a martyr complex. It's just so close.

I don't think Anna gives a rat's ass about her kids, either their present state or their futures. They are props for her, just as children are for her idol, Meech. 

I can totally see her moving, by herself, to be close to JOSH-U-A wherever his sorry ass winds up, and actually enjoying being a prison wife. She leaves the kids with her in-laws. JBoob maintains total control, Meech can surround herself with a bunch of young blessings (which may be getting in shorter supply as some of her adult children back off).

Win/win/win for the three nonincarcerated sickos in this shitshow.

I read up about the narcissist with martyr complex. A couple of my sisters exhibit some characteristics. I learned that the martyr complex is a passive aggressive thing (I didn’t know) and that’s how I see my sisters. (One especially wears the Martyr crown and tries to guilt me about any excess good in my life, always talking about how she did this and that for others.) They twist the narrative to fit the judgmental way they see me. They have a hard time accepting anything nice I do for them because they don’t want to see me as a good person, they prefer seeing me as wrong because I do things my way and not their way.
 

I’ve worked on boundaries the past couple years and the difficult process of distancing myself makes both of their issues much, much clearer and so worth the distancing.
 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Cam

[Giraffe]

Why do people think Anna might abandon her kids to the senior Duggars? To me that seems like quite a leap, even though she’s clearly still on team Josh.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

12 minutes ago, Cam said:

Makes sense. I am curious to see what happens. Just because her sister is there, will she feel that is enough support for her and her kids? Some say she’ll leave her kids at TTH. But how would she feel being surrounded by Pris’s brood when her own would be in Arkansas? I have a hard time thinking she’d go alone. 
 

She has another sister who married very well. If I were that sister, I'd help Anna out with seed money. And she's likely to get more emotional support from Pris than she will ever see at the Tinker Toy House. 

I don't see her ever leaving her kids ever.

[SPHASH]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Why do people think Anna might abandon her kids to the senior Duggars? To me that seems like quite a leap, even though she’s clearly still on team Josh.

Probably because she spent most nights at the Rebers while Josh was staying there.

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

Probably because she spent most nights at the Rebers while Josh was staying there.

Was that actually confirmed? I thought it was only ever  speculated about. 

[Sullie06]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Why do people think Anna might abandon her kids to the senior Duggars? To me that seems like quite a leap, even though she’s clearly still on team Josh.

I wondered the same thing. While I feel it's a very good possibility she will move closer to wherever he lands, I don't get the feeling she would leave her children behind. All Anna has been her entire adult life is a wife and a mother. Now she is no longer a wife in terms of wifely duties. I see her clinging to her children instead of abandoning them. 

[Dandruff]

If Josh is sent to Texas I envision regular visits via Duggar Aviation.  Sometime down the road, I would expect a more permanent move with the claim of it making the situation more convenient for all.  Also, I doubt Anna would choose to leave her kids (for more than brief visits) under any circumstances.

[Alisamer]

3 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The lack of letters from his siblings and the total lack of support from anyone for Anna at the sentencing was all pretty glaring.

Even at the trial itself, it seemed like she got more "support" from Derrick Dillard than the rest of the Duggars. He seemed to have made a point to speak kindly to her.  I think if, at any point, Anna decides she wants free of the Duggar circus and of her pedo husband, she could get plenty of help. The Dillards would likely offer emotional support and encourage her to get some therapy. She has a brother who offered to help her ages ago. One of her sisters is very wealthy, and was kind enough to let the entire Rod fam use her vacation home for a week, so while I'm sure she wouldn't be willing to take on Anna and her brood permanently she'd probably be willing to help Anna make the initial transition in some way.

On top of all the people she actually knows, she's got a social media presence and an interesting enough story to get help in other ways. I imagine she could find plenty of opportunities for magazine stories and TV appearances if she decided to leave Josh. She wouldn't even have to spill too much tea, just the "my Godly husband turned out to be a monster" angle would be enough to get her some press. And I'm positive there are plenty of people out there who would be willing to help her, In little ways, maybe, but they add up. 

I 100% think there is no chance whatsoever Anna will abandon her kids in any way. 

I strongly doubt that Anna will ever leave Josh, either.

But she could, if she wanted. She could find a way. And there's no way to know what the heck she is thinking, anyway. 

I mean if I was in her position (I wouldn't be because I'd have dumped his ass ages ago, but let's imagine anyway...) I think I'd be right now just trying to figure out what normal is. She's got an infant and young kids and her husband that she promised "until death do us part" in front of God turned out to be horrible and is now incarcerated. She's got to be reeling a bit still.

That's why I think things aren't likely to change much for Anna right now, but long term anything could happen. There's a big difference between having 7 kids, most of them in single digits still, and having 7 kids, a couple of whom might be out on their own or married already, the rest teenagers, and the youngest being a pre-teen.

Her life, regardless of Josh, is going to change a ton in the next 5 years. Who knows how she'll feel or what she'll do once there are no more diapers to change, everyone can feed and dress themselves, and with the oldest being nearly adults she suddenly finds herself with time to actually think and breathe. And then a few years later, Mack at least is likely married, the others are mostly old enough to drive, Madison is almost 12... and suddenly she realizes Josh is going to be back home soon. And not allowed to be unsupervised around most of the kids still at home. And she's going to be the one stuck with him. Maybe she'll be happy to have a deadbeat "man baby" to care for since all her actual babies are grown. But she very well might nope out at that point.

And also who knows how the kids will react - surely most of them will have figured out what he did. Will THEY want him back home? Will Madison be cool with this guy she barely knows coming in and expecting her to obey him and call him dad? Will Mackenzie want him to be around HER kids? 

All the Duggars who have any memory of him not being in prison will be old enough to have figured out what he did. I doubt he's going to be popular among his nieces and nephews. 

[nokidsmom]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The lack of letters from his siblings and the total lack of support from anyone for Anna at the sentencing was all pretty glaring

I was surprised to learn that there were no letters from the siblings.  Of course, I expected certain siblings would not be writing letters but I expected there to be at least a couple, especially those still living at the TTH, who might write under family pressure.   So I found it very interesting that there were none.  I am inclined to think that JB/J'chelle didn't push the issue because if they really wanted it, they could have gotten a least one sibling to do it.   

With Anna obviously very angry and being by herself at the sentencing, separate from JB and no other supporters suggests to me that there's widespread acceptance of Joshley's guilt by people around Anna and she's mighty pissed about it.   She may very well be standing alone in her belief in Joshley's innocence and I would not be at all surprised that if Joshley is incarcerated in Texas, that she might move to be nearer to him and also receive support from her sister there.   Maybe it will be better for her to actually move, the questions of how she would manage that notwithstanding, but distance from the TTH might a good thing.  

 

[Giraffe]

Imo at this point the only way Anna might reconsider her current life is if she moves to be closer to the convicted child predator (as long as she doesn’t move in with or close to Priscilla and Pecan). If she stays with the Senior Duggars or even moves near her parents (which I highly doubt will happen) I don’t see anything changing.

[Cam]

I’d have been more surprised if any of the siblings had written a support letter. I see all the marrieds circling the wagons around their own little families. Any unmarrieds are too young to have much clout writing support for Josh as he was married and raising his own kids and they barely got to know him growing up.
 

I think all of them have to be pissed at how Josh messed up over and over again, ruining things for everyone. I think they’re also pissed at the money JB dropped on his defense since that was money earned by the show in which all Duggars were a part. I think they’re pissed and frustrated that for the rest of their public lives, Josh’s scandals will always be a part of their story. They are tired of that notoriety. They want to be seen separate and apart from Josh. Why write a letter and have to live that down for eternity, too? 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Cam

[Inky]

I suspect Anna will want to move closer to Josh in prison but I don't see her leaving her children with Michelle at all. Michelle would not want them, for one thing, and I doubt Jana and whoever is doing "school" with the littles, would want the extra responsibility either. Don't forget, Michelle's claim to fame "and i gave birth to every one of them", and the fact that she very quickly passed them off to a sister mom as soon as they were weaned/or around 8 months. She isn't interested in raising anyone's children, much less her own. 

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

I mean, I figured out something she could do...
I'm sure people would pay 99 cents, even if it's poorly edited/written.
You can have the cover, Anna. Get paid and get out!