Josh and Anna 54: He's Listed in the BoP Database

[Antimony]

18 hours ago, Freejin said:

what happens when someone writes a tell all book? If they mention names can those people sue them?

Depends. Usual comment of, "You can sue anybody, but the real question is if you have a snowball's chance..."

Depp v. Heard actually laid this out pretty well for the public, as far as what is and isn't defamation. Most of the Duggars could be arguably, public figures and it'll depend on the state. The short version is usually;

(1) Non-disclosure agreements are not valid if they're being used to cover up crimes
(2) You can say anything you want about anybody as long as it's true.
(3) You can usually say anything you want about anybody as long as you have good reason to believe it's true.
(4) Defamation must be both false and damaging.*
(5) Public figures usually have to prove "actual malice" which means they have to prove that the person who said it knew it was false. 

*If the state has defamation per se, you don't need to prove damages, apparently?? (Virginia has defamation per se.)

So, if Josh writes his prison tell-all memoir or if Amy finally spills it all, if Jim Bob wants to win a case as a public figure, he has to prove that anything they write is false, that it is damaging to him, and that it hypothetical-Josh-or-Amy knew it was false at the time of writing it. That's a tall legal order. 

Jim Bob might have a case if he got them to sign NDAs but if they disclose a crime Jim Bob did, it's a no-go for him. NDA's are not usually valid in perpetuity and some have expiration dates. It's also possible (likely) that Jim Bob is not very good at crafting NDAs that are worth a damn and that their most valuable aspect is their scare value. 

[SassyPants]

How would JB respond if Dereck or Jeremy had been convicted of CSA? Would he be encouraging his daughters to stick with it and support the perv? Would he have shown up to court in support of the perp? 

Edited June 10, 2022 by SassyPants

[Gobsmacked]

1 hour ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I wonder how Anna will feel when her older boys reach the age Josh was when he began molesting his sisters. When Michael is 14, the little girls will be about 9, 6, and 4--not too far off the ages Josh's sisters were.

 

ETA:  clarifying that I in no way think her boys will follow in their father's path---just commenting to explore how Anna will feel.

Possibly realising this may shock Anna out of her bubble. Although sadly probably not. 

[Howl]

Also have to wonder how long Anna can keep the various kids from discovering the reality of why their father is in prison, and the reality will diverge sharply from whatever story they've been fed. 

 I'm sure Covenant Eyes is on every laptop or computer in the Josh & Anna household, but if any of the boys decide to go into some aspect of the computer business (repair, tech, coping, net work specialist, cyber security, software, whatever) as a way to support themselves and their potentially  large brood, they will at some point understand why their dad is in the gray bar hotel, with three hots and a flop courtesy of the Federal government.  It may feel like a huge betrayal. 

[Not that josh's mom]

I can see JB telling Anna that if she wants to move to TX to be nearer Joshua when he is imprisoned there, that he won't support her and the children. Because he wants to maintain control of course. I can also see her telling him that she'd leave the kids and go live with the Wallers. Anybody else?

[imokit]

6 hours ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

A practical implication - if a woman is unclean, and anything she touches is unclean, and anyone who touches things she's touched is unclean, she's not going to be doing housework, cooking, etc., while on her period.  A woman on her period being unclean means that she gets to rest and not have physical demands made of her.  We're not even that far in our modern culture.  

Not always.  In places like India and Nepal women menstruating are banished to horrific conditions.

Women die in period isolation.

https://thehimalayantimes.com/nepal/15-girls-women-died-in-chhausheds-in-13-yrs/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/17/787808530/menstrual-huts-are-illegal-in-nepal-so-why-are-women-still-dying-in-them?t=1654903716800

In other places where women are dirty on their periods but not made to live in tents, they still suffer economic and educational hardship from the practice.  Teen girls on their period aren't allowed in school.  3-5 days off school every month add up.  Not being able to go work adds up.

Places where women menstruating are viewed as unclean are normally part of a very patriarchal culture.  Those women aren't being looked after, they're being shunted aside and resented while the too young and too old (pre pubertal and post menopausal) girls/women step up to do the wimmen work. 

[Howl]

"The NHRC’s report prepared on the basis of public hearings in Dailekh and Achham has recommended to the central government to implement the law strictly to prevent deaths in chhau sheds and provide sanitary pads in the rural parts of the country free of cost. In the same way, it has also recommended to reduce customs duty on sanitary pads."

This is why women MUST be included in national and local governments.  

Edited June 11, 2022 by Howl

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

All this talk about Jill & Anna's fertility completely ignores that men have fertility issues too. For some reason I was downvoted when I mentioned Shrek's obesity but here is a link of lifestyle causes of male infertility: smoking cigarettes, alcohol intake, use of illicit drugs, obesity, psychological stress, advanced paternal age, dietary practices, and coffee consumption.

 

i think it's safe to say Josh will be affected by at least 3 of these when he is released from prison. 
 

Male lifestyle infertility  

So it won't be just Anna's advancing age that is against them if/when they try to conceive.  
 

i've just listened to the very disturbing podcast Hunting Warhead it makes me realise that Josh is even more dangerous than I thought. It is terrifying how many paedophiles there are in the world. I'm holding my teeny tiny 3 month old baby in my arms looking at her and trying to imagine anyone hurting her. I just can't. Tears were streaming down my eyes listening to that podcast. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

All this talk about Jill & Anna's fertility completely ignores that men have fertility issues too. For some reason I was downvoted when I mentioned Shrek's obesity but here is a link of lifestyle causes of male infertility: smoking cigarettes, alcohol intake, use of illicit drugs, obesity, psychological stress, advanced paternal age, dietary practices, and coffee consumption.

 

Absolutely! Men have fertility issues just as frequently as women. But it gets very little press. Josh is certainly likely to cause an end to their babymaking in 12 years.

[Cam]

So I was watching a youtube video that gave a chronological account of Josh’s scandals. It shows a clip of him at a small rally when he was “executive director” of Family Research Council in Washington DC; small crowd standing behind him holding signs. He’s in a suit, some attractive young woman beside him, I think she was strategically there for the optics. It just irritates the heck out of me. First, it sounds like a sham made-up organization, just make up a name and to make it look official, appoint someone to head it up. So they pick 27 year old Josh. Ugh.
 

What were the ass kissing strings that JB pulled to get Josh that kind of job. Josh had like zero experience in pretty much anything. Here’s this conservative white entitled male who had enough time on his hands to have a job with this high ranking position, be a husband and father of a growing family, and still hit up Ahsley Madison. I’m certain any work required at FRC was done by office staff and Josh did zilch.

Then you have his lawyers at trial trying to make Josh out to be some dummy who was practically computer illiterate because he was home schooled. But it was good enough to get him the FRC executive director position. 
 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Cam

[SPHASH]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

So I was watching a youtube video that gave a chronological account of Josh’s scandals. It shows a clip of him at a small rally when he was “executive director” of Family Research Council in Washington DC; small crowd standing behind him holding signs. He’s in a suit, some attractive young woman beside him, I think she was strategically there for the optics. It just irritates the heck out of me. First, it sounds like a sham made-up organization, just make up a name and to make it look official, appoint someone to head it up. So they pick 27 year old Josh. Ugh.
 

What were the ass kissing strings that JB pulled to get Josh that kind of job. Josh had like zero experience in pretty much anything. Here’s this conservative white entitled male who had enough time on his hands to have a job with this high ranking position, be a husband and father of a growing family, and still hit up Ahsley Madison. I’m certain any work required at FRC was done by office staff and Josh did zilch.

Then you have his lawyers at trial trying to make Josh out to be some dummy who was practically computer illiterate because he was home schooled. But it was good enough to get him the FRC executive director position. 
 

 

Got a link to that video

[Howl]

23 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I can see JB telling Anna that if she wants to move to TX to be nearer Joshua when he is imprisoned there,

Has it been confirmed that Josh is going to a Federal prison in TX?  If so, which prison?  

 

 

[Cam]

57 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

Got a link to that video

 

The last part of the video is the audio recording of when the Feds came to the car shack and are interviewing Josh. The narrator of the video makes an observation that I appreciate which is that during the interview, the Federal investigator keeps interrupting Josh and talking overtop of him, rather than let Josh keep talking and more or less hang himself with his own words. The interview could have been done better by the investigators and I agree. At least Josh is doing time now.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Cam

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Cam said:

What were the ass kissing strings that JB pulled to get Josh that kind of job. Josh had like zero experience in pretty much anything. Here’s this conservative white entitled male who had enough time on his hands to have a job with this high ranking position, be a husband and father of a growing family, and still hit up Ahsley Madison. I’m certain any work required at FRC was done by office staff and Josh did zilch.

Can you imagine what a nightmare he would have been to work for? Completely unqualified, uneducated (not even a degree from Liberty or Patrick Henry), and no experience working in a professional organization (i.e., no Duggar Time).

 And you know he was completely drunk with power and lorded it over everyone else. 

[Bastet]

Josh was hired by the FRC at the height of Duggar fame, so I think the goal was to get the organization more visibility. I suspect that he had little real power in the organization and that he had an aide who was actually a minder—someone who got him invited places, wrote his speeches, took him shopping for an appropriate wardrobe, gave him head pats when he acquitted himself well and “suggestions” when he did not. Their expectations were probably modest. 

I have a vague memory of JB being less than enthused about the DC job. Can anyone confirm that?

[Jana814]

I have always said that Josh got the job in DC because his last name is Duggar. He was completely unqualified for it. 

[Magenta]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:54 AM, SassyPants said:

How would JB respond if Dereck or Jeremy had been convicted of CSA? Would he be encouraging his daughters to stick with it and support the perv? Would he have shown up to court in support of the perp? 

Considering he made them live with their abuser...

Edited June 11, 2022 by Magenta

[Cam]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Can you imagine what a nightmare he would have been to work for? Completely unqualified, uneducated (not even a degree from Liberty or Patrick Henry), and no experience working in a professional organization (i.e., no Duggar Time).

 And you know he was completely drunk with power and lorded it over everyone else. 

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! 

 

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Josh was hired by the FRC at the height of Duggar fame, so I think the goal was to get the organization more visibility. I suspect that he had little real power in the organization and that he had an aide who was actually a minder—someone who got him invited places, wrote his speeches, took him shopping for an appropriate wardrobe, gave him head pats when he acquitted himself well and “suggestions” when he did not. Their expectations were probably modest. 

Most definitely.

I’m sure despite no qualifications, he had the biggest paycheck with the women with marketable skills running the office making far less. 
 

He may have started out with little power, but it’s my belief these conservative religious organizations put young men in these positions early to learn and refine how to double speak, dominate, control and then seize more power higher up the political chain. (I see it happening where I live on a county wide and state representative level). That’s the route Josh was on before he self-destructed.

 

On 6/10/2022 at 1:54 PM, SassyPants said:

How would JB respond if Dereck or Jeremy had been convicted of CSA? Would he be encouraging his daughters to stick with it and support the perv? Would he have shown up to court in support of the perp? 

And would he have written a letter of support to the judge saying what a great father, husband, son-in-law and all around good guy he was, the way Pa Keller did for Josh?

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Cam

[neuroticcat]

He totally fit the FRC playbook. It was formed for fundamentalist political power…so having Josh’s “fame” and public persona would’ve been worth whatever incompetence. He was hired for his fundie celebrity. 

[Ms. Brightside]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:27 AM, Antimony said:

Jim Bob might have a case if he got them to sign NDAs but if they disclose a crime Jim Bob did, it's a no-go for him. 

Thank you for this! That was a very helpful breakdown of all the factors... I'm wondering, though, if a crime was committed that the hypothetical tell-all-writer knew about (let's say financial fraud, for example);

a) Would the hypothetical tell-all-writer get in any trouble for admitting that they knew a crime took place but didn't report it? My understanding is that unless you're a mandated reporter, the answer would be no, but then where would the line be drawn to call someone an accomplice to x crime if they knew about it and let it continue? Could there be a chance that kind of blowback would scare someone out of saying something, too?

b) Would knowledge of the crime nullify the entire NDA (ex. could the tell-all-writer then also discuss family rules and drama, which have nothing to do with the hypothetical financial fraud we're saying they knew about?), or does it only mean they can speak about the criminal activity without retribution and anything else is still off-limits?

[Antimony]

5 minutes ago, Ms. Brightside said:

Thank you for this! That was a very helpful breakdown of all the factors... I'm wondering, though, if a crime was committed that the hypothetical tell-all-writer knew about (let's say financial fraud, for example);

a) Would the hypothetical tell-all-writer get in any trouble for admitting that they knew a crime took place but didn't report it? My understanding is that unless you're a mandated reporter, the answer would be no, but then where would the line be drawn to call someone an accomplice to x crime if they knew about it and let it continue? Could there be a chance that kind of blowback would scare someone out of saying something, too?

b) Would knowledge of the crime nullify the entire NDA (ex. could the tell-all-writer then also discuss family rules and drama, which have nothing to do with the hypothetical financial fraud we're saying they knew about?), or does it only mean they can speak about the criminal activity without retribution and anything else is still off-limits?

a) I think you're right here re: mandated reporter.

b) Not sure. I think it would only be waived for things that pertain to the crime, but it might be moot here because I don't trust Jim Bob's NDAs to be legally strong. I suspect they're primarily fear-based. Perhaps Derrick has a better sense of this. On another point, if the NDA is signed through pressuring somebody, or threat, you can usually get out of it that way. 

INAL, and all. I do get the sense that NDAs for interpersonal issues have a lot less strength than those about trade secrets or employer information. 

[onekidanddone]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:54 PM, SassyPants said:

How would JB respond if Dereck or Jeremy had been convicted of CSA? Would he be encouraging his daughters to stick with it and support the perv? Would he have shown up to court in support of the perp? 

He’d probably still put some of the blame on his daughters. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I have always said that Josh got the job in DC because his last name is Duggar. He was completely unqualified for it. 

Now Marjorie Jackson works for them. At least she has a college degree. 

[imokit]

16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Now Marjorie Jackson works for them. At least she has a college degree. 

The best thing that ever happened to Marjorie was the timing of Pest scandal no 1 coming to light.  It ended her thing with Josiah and is why she has a career and lives independently instead of a marriage and children.

I know she's got (very) scary values, but she's earning decent money and is an independent woman which is a big thing in their cult.

[JermajestyDuggar]

34 minutes ago, imokit said:

The best thing that ever happened to Marjorie was the timing of Pest scandal no 1 coming to light.  It ended her thing with Josiah and is why she has a career and lives independently instead of a marriage and children.

I know she's got (very) scary values, but she's earning decent money and is an independent woman which is a big thing in their cult.

The Jacksons seem too different from the Duggars. Marj’s sister also went to college, is married to a man in Med school, and seems to be working a job she likes. No babies. I’m guessing they will prevent until he’s out of medical school. The Jacksons value education while the Duggars don’t. It never would have worked. Marj would have been miserable as a Duggar. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar