Dillards 88: 'Cause We're Living in a World of Fools

[clueliss]

Can we not internet diagnose based on the limited stuff we see on social media and previously saw on TV?  We don't see all their lives and WebMd is not a professional therapist/psychiatrist.

[SassyPants]

The most telling thing about that video was Dereck mentioning that he always wants to be a “ lifelong learner.” Can you imagine having that approach and you end up marrying a Duggar? I think if Dereck had had 2 healthy parents, his path would not have likely crossed with Jill or her crazy parents. I am glad that the Dillards received (perhaps are receiving) therapy. So many unhealthy aspects: fundamentalism, unhealthy control, illness, child exploitation, withholding of education, isolation, molestation, suppression of emotions.

[viii]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

The most telling thing about that video was Dereck mentioning that he always wants to be a “ lifelong learner.” Can you imagine having that approach and you end up marrying a Duggar? I think if Dereck had had 2 healthy parents, his path would not have likely crossed with Jill or her crazy parents. I am glad that the Dillards received (perhaps are receiving) therapy. So many unhealthy aspects: fundamentalism, unhealthy control, illness, child exploitation, withholding of education, isolation, molestation, suppression of emotions.

I think Jim Bob got involved with Derick when he was at a very vulnerable time in his life. He was young, likely still grieving his father, and Jim Bob appeared as this father-figure to him. I think if Rick Dillard had never passed away, Derick and Jill would have never gotten together. 

[HereticHick]

19 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Gotta love the typo! Wondering how a progressive sinner works.

Unitarian over here, waving at you

[front hugs > duggs]

For the Disney World fans, I've heard of a progressive date night around the "monorail" hotels. Go to one...get an app/drink...monorail over to the next for dinner...then ditto for dessert. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I think Jim Bob got involved with Derick when he was at a very vulnerable time in his life. He was young, likely still grieving his father, and Jim Bob appeared as this father-figure to him. I think if Rick Dillard had never passed away, Derick and Jill would have never gotten together. 

This was also when Cathy was ill and they weren’t sure she was going to survive.

Boob absolutely took advantage of a vulnerable Derick, and honestly I think Boob expected Cathy to pass, giving him even more control over Derick as time went on. 

I can’t stand Derick because I still think he’s more upset at how much he was treated vs. Jill’s *years* of abuse, but I can definitely understand why he’s so angry at Boob.

 

 

[Grace]

Jill posted a haircut of Derek today and made a comment about wishing it didn't take so long to grow back the man bun. It made me wonder if even THAT would be a biggish step for a fundie...to admit that they think a man bun in a guy is hot ? I would assume such womanly hair would be heavily frowned upon. Like, have her sisters asked her "Ewe gross! What is WRONG with you?!"

[Idlewild]

If he’s planning to grow the man bun again I assume he’s got a job with an understanding law firm- I’m a lot older but things were very conservative appearance wise when I was looking for a place in my final year.

[nolongerIFBx]

17 hours ago, Grace said:

Jill posted a haircut of Derek today and made a comment about wishing it didn't take so long to grow back the man bun. It made me wonder if even THAT would be a biggish step for a fundie...to admit that they think a man bun in a guy is hot ? I would assume such womanly hair would be heavily frowned upon. Like, have her sisters asked her "Ewe gross! What is WRONG with you?!"

It is- we're taught that long hair on men is effiminate and a sin:  “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?” 1 Corinthians 11:14

[luv2laugh]

On 2/8/2021 at 10:11 AM, SassyPants said:

The most telling thing about that video was Dereck mentioning that he always wants to be a “ lifelong learner.” Can you imagine having that approach and you end up marrying a Duggar? I think if Dereck had had 2 healthy parents, his path would not have likely crossed with Jill or her crazy parents. I am glad that the Dillards received (perhaps are receiving) therapy. So many unhealthy aspects: fundamentalism, unhealthy control, illness, child exploitation, withholding of education, isolation, molestation, suppression of emotions.

I think they're both in therapy because Jill & Derick mentioned that they go to a certain restaurant to talk "after counselling" to discuss the counselling appointment. Who knows if it's church marital counselling or not, though. I also think Jill does individual therapy.

On 2/8/2021 at 8:36 AM, clueliss said:

Can we not internet diagnose based on the limited stuff we see on social media and previously saw on TV?  We don't see all their lives and WebMd is not a professional therapist/psychiatrist.

I've seen people call Jill codependent. I didn't have malicious intent with my post. Simply, I'm concerned that Jill may emotionally depend on Derick and it's my hope that she will develop more emotional independence from him.

Edited February 9, 2021 by luv2laugh

[Johannah]

1 hour ago, nolongerIFBx said:

It is- we're taught that long hair on men is effiminate and a sin:  “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?” 1 Corinthians 11:14

Didn’t Jesus have long hair?

[fluffernutter]

7 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Didn’t Jesus have long hair?

According to the painting hanging in my mother in law's, yes. Long, lush, golden light brown locks. ? It looks like he's staring at you wherever you go. Creepy. Funny story about that painting- My one brother in law has always had long, wavy hair.  Many years ago, our oldest daughter says to my mil during a visit "That's a nice picture of Uncle Joe, Grandma!" ? My mil did not find it amusing and told me I needed to start taking our daughter's religious upbringing seriously. (We didn't).

Edited February 9, 2021 by fluffernutter
Added content

[PennySycamore]

@Johannah, in most of the iconography of Jesus, he is depicted as having long hair.  On the other hand, judging from Greek and Roman art from that period, men wore their hair fairly short,  That may have no bearing on how the men in Galilee wore their hair though.  

[SorenaJ]

Maybe they mean waist-long hair is not acceptable for men, but shoulder length and man-bun length hair is okay?

[finnlassie]

Long haired Jesus was created by Westerners, especially renaissance art, when he was depicted as a beautiful white man with long brown/light brown hair. And sadly, that image has been burnt into our minds instead of what it actually is.

[HeartsAFundie]

2 hours ago, finnlassie said:

Long haired Jesus was created by Westerners, especially renaissance art, when he was depicted as a beautiful white man with long brown/light brown hair. And sadly, that image has been burnt into our minds instead of what it actually is.

In 1974, the TV show "Good Times" tackled this subject with an episode entitled "Black Jesus".  Although played for laughs,  the episode was intended to be thought-provoking, as Norman Lear's shows usually were.  TV One breaks the episode down nicely.

https://tvone.tv/38322/the-breakdown-black-jesus-on-good-times/   

[louisa05]

8 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Maybe they mean waist-long hair is not acceptable for men, but shoulder length and man-bun length hair is okay?

At evangelical/charismatic  Christian school, boys were sent home if their hair touched their collar. Shoulder length hair was definitely not okay. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by louisa05

[nokidsmom]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:55 PM, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Boob absolutely took advantage of a vulnerable Derick, and honestly I think Boob expected Cathy to pass, giving him even more control over Derick as time went on. 

I can’t stand Derick because I still think he’s more upset at how much he was treated vs. Jill’s *years* of abuse, but I can definitely understand why he’s so angry at Boob.

Once I heard how Derick got in touch with JB, that it was following his father's death plus the possibility of his mother also passing away, it made a lot of sense to me how he got sucked in.     I figured one of two things would happen:  either he would go completely down the rabbit hole and stay there, meaning he would be completely subsumed by the Duggar borg or he would wake up and get himself and Jill away from them.

I haven't always liked Derick but honestly I am glad he got himself and Jill away from JB and Co.  I know it's sad when families fracture but sometimes it's the best thing that can happen when it comes to unhealthy, hyper controlling families.   For that reason, I don't personally feel too badly about Jill's separation knowing how seriously screwed up her family is.   I am glad she is getting therapy for it as she navigates something she never thought in a million years she would have to do, dealing with a rift with her family for simply wanting to live her own life.   

Her choices are hardly radical by the usual standards: she's married with 2 kids, husband going to law school with plans to actually support his family, they are still conservative Christians, they are law abiding citizens, yet these are considered terrible choices by her family.  All because she won't let them (or rather her father) have control.   That right there tells you how screwed up her family is.  

I mean look at where her older brother is.  He and his family are completely supported and controlled  by her father.   Sure, her brother blew up his career and reputation in a spectacular way, but he's got nothing really going for himself even years later.  He and his wife and kids live in a glorified warehouse with no real prospects at this point.    It doesn't seem like much of a life in comparision to Jill and Derick's, yet he remains in the family fold because Daddy has control.   That's a terrible tradeoff IMHO. 

I agree Derick seems more upset over how he's been treated along with the TLC income issue but I think that knowing what his wife went through at the hands of her family is still part of his anger.  Possible that he makes a point of not talking about his wife's family/abuse because it's her story to tell, but I think he's very, very angry on her behalf.    He saw behind the wholesome, Christian family facade and it was a big shock.  I don't think even he was prepared to deal with a family so screwed up. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by nokidsmom
Clarification

[Smee]

We used to do progressive dinners at youth group. And occasionally regressive dinners - where you start with dessert, then main, then entree/appetisers and then say grace. They were fun.

In Australia, voting is compulsory. There’s no way the government could get away with 12 hour voting lines or not making provisions for disabled folks or people who will be travelling on Election Day. I can only imagine the outrage if they were like “well, you have to vote and we’ll fine you if you don’t, but we’re also going to make it hard”. We are as a nation willing to give up an hour or so on a Saturday morning once every couple of years, but no more than that, and there’d better be sausages and/or cake. Despite our 92% voter turnout, we still ended up with a conservative right-wing government whose approach to refugees sickens me. Murdoch.

I agree that Dwreck was captured at a vulnerable time and the plan had been for him to be sufficiently brainwashed and stay in the cult. If his father hadn’t died, he and Jill would never have married - but then Jill would probably be on her fourth kid with someone else and those 4 kids would be poorly homeschooled and indoctrinated into the cult, so ultimately I think it’s a good thing that Jill and Derrick’s paths led here.

[BullyJBG]

On 2/8/2021 at 10:11 AM, SassyPants said:

The most telling thing about that video was Dereck mentioning that he always wants to be a “ lifelong learner.” Can you imagine having that approach and you end up marrying a Duggar? I think if Dereck had had 2 healthy parents, his path would not have likely crossed with Jill or her crazy parents. I am glad that the Dillards received (perhaps are receiving) therapy. So many unhealthy aspects: fundamentalism, unhealthy control, illness, child exploitation, withholding of education, isolation, molestation, suppression of emotions.

In the Duggars' second book, they talk about how the older daughters looked for someone with a "learning spirit" and Jimbob applauded it. Maybe he hoped that learning would be learning things THEIR way, instead of thinking for themselves and reading the Bible in that way; including asking a lot of questions. Poor Jimbob has to eat his words and don't they taste bitter......

[nolongerIFBx]

On 2/9/2021 at 12:24 PM, Johannah said:

Didn’t Jesus have long hair?

Seems like everyone has answered this as well as I could. I doubt He had a high and tight but it's also not possible that He looked like all the iconography of Him either. We had to cut out or black out any hair that was long on Him in picture books, LOL.

[socalrules]

I am in the minority because I don’t think Derrick was in any way sucked into the Duggar lifestyle by Jim Bob and I don’t think his father’s death had anything to do with it. I think Derrick went in with eyes wide open. He wanted to be part of the famous family, gain his own fame, maybe make some money, get the famous virgin wife and not have to work a real job. He could have refused early on to quit his Walmart job but instead quit for filming. I have always believed that the man who could not stop reminding people he was Pistol Pete wanted more fame and attention. Derrick seemed to be happy with it all until he realized he would just be another trained Duggar monkey and he wasn’t able to control the narrative. Plus, he never got the ongoing big money he expected to receive. I think he was trying to use the Duggars as much as they were trying to use him and Jill was just stuck in the middle because she believed in the fairy tale she was raised on. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

4 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I think he was trying to use the Duggars as much as they were trying to use him and Jill was just stuck in the middle because she believed in the fairy tale she was raised on. 

I definitely agree Dillwank approached Boob with an agenda and was looking for an easy button. However, I think his family situation did leave him vulnerable to being manipulated. Had Rick been alive and/or Cathy been healthy, I think he would have seen Boob for what he was and noped out before he got involved with Jill, or at a minimum, kept his Wal-mart job to maintain his independence. 

[DalmatianCat]

Minority opinion...I think Derrick still would have fallen in love and married Jill even if both parents had been living and healthy at the time of meeting. The main difference I can see happening is some of the choices they made in the first several years being different (not quitting his job at Walmart as quickly, or if he did, having a better support system in place before going to CA, not getting the mouth surgery, being encouraged into couples counseling after the Josh allegations came out, etc.).

I think Derrick and Jill were/are a good match and would have still stood out to each other in spite of their lifestyle differences. When they met, Derrick had a college degree and Jill was still studying midwifery...so he was probably impressed with her ambition and figured that she enjoyed learning (both of which I still think are true) and liked that she was pursuing some type of continued education even if it looked different than the path he took. She probably liked that he had a college degree (rather rare in her world) and didn’t seem intimidated by her drive and desire to continue learning...she probably had a hard time finding guys in her circle who weren’t a little intimidated by the fact that she liked learning (I’m guessing that Jill was actually smarter than most guys she was meeting and looked at as a little nerdy). Unlike the other three oldest girls, Jill never seemed super into hair and makeup. I noticed she started “girl-ing up” around the time the older girls book came out and she continued the cute clothes and makeup while she and Derrick dated, but her natural style has always seemed to trend towards casually, hippy, boho chic, low maintenance. He lived in Nepal for awhile and probably appreciated a girl who didn’t seem overly concerned with hair and makeup (remember Jinger stressing about if the part in her hair was right before going to see Jeremy?). When he mentioned roughing it on the mission field she was probably enthusiastic to the idea. It obviously didn’t turn out as easy as she thought, but Derrick had probably met several girls who wouldn’t have even gone on a second date if he asked if they were interested in moving to Nepal.

So, all that to say, I think they would have fallen in love and gotten married regardless of what was going on with Derrick’s parents. I think they might have just skipped that rough patch they went through for a few years, or just had better help navigating it, or at least had someone else giving them advice instead of just the Duggars.

[Grace]

I have always thought about him quitting the Walmart job in reference to doing show stuff but it just occurred to me...there are certain departments at Walmart Home Office that have reputations for burning people out. The people who work for their tech area get paid a lot but they work them HARD and they have a ridiculous turnover rate and I think legal is the same.  I wonder if A) the accounting department is also burn-out city or Derrick got his first accounting job and realized 'Holy crap this is BORING and I hate it" and the show and missions were just a way out.  It seems like a personality that enjoys jaunting around over the globe doing mission work might not be one to enjoy a job crunching numbers all day.

They wanted their independence and he has pretty employable credentials (if not the job history) but he chose to go back to school for a totally different field instead of getting his CPA license. I know a lot of it was probably pressure from Jill having a hard time being alone for the first time and clinging hard and they obviously needed to do some therapy to work on things which probably contributed to his choice but it's entirely possible he hated that Walmart job on its own without adding in awful family dynamics. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Grace