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SassyPants

I don’t think Derick would be anti Jill holding a job outside of the home. It sounds like his mother has worked for a good, long time. Dan’s wife works too. At this point, since Sam is still at home FT,  Jill likely does not have the skill sets that would make working outside the home profitable. I do think DD would be supportive of Jill pursuing higher education in preparation for a future career. I definitely think the Dillards are on their way to successfully integrating into the real world. These folks are not living a Gothard Fundie lifestyle. They are very religious, but they are no longer living in a fantasyland where you have a new baby every year and no one works outside of the home; a life of grifting off of others and living in isolation. This left of center citizen is cheering them on from afar. 

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Clearly some people here have never been raised in a cult.  It is very rare to wake up one day and turn your back on everything that you know. It takes time. It starts with small steps and vague

Sometimes people write here like conservative bigots are a small minority in the US, but Trump had the second most votes in history. He got over 74 million votes. Some of them from people that doesn’t

My hope is not so much for Jill herself as it is for Sam and Izzy. Even at five years old Israel has probably been exposed to a wider variety of people and ideas than his cousin Mackynzie who is twice

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Stop_Counting
4 hours ago, haroldtheyrefundies said:

She did. 

"As for our views on the LGBT+ community, we do hold to our faith that that lifestyle is not condoned, and we believe that is a sinful thing."  If one of her kids came out as gay, Jill said "we would of course love our kids just the same but couldn't condone their lifestyle." and then the author of the article corrects Jill's use of the word lifestyle and says there is scientific research that has been around for decades that says that your sexuality, like your eye color or blood type, is determined long before birth. after that Jill continues on to say "But if they are an adult and not under our roof, then they could make their own decisions." 

basically, if any of Jill's kids turns out to be LGBT, they will have to wait and come out until they are 18 and out of the house. Which is really sad to think about. 

Thank you!

I cringe when people cheer because Jill is wearing chucks, while admitting she probably voted for Trump. Idon't know what's crazier this or everyone cheering when they basically said "hate the sin love the sinnner" about the lgbt community.  The bar is so low for us. 

That People magazine interview is interesting. She doesn't use hormonal birth control because it might cause abortion!. Also they want more kids. But not 19. But you knows what God wants!!!!

So to recap Jill and Derick are still conservative and most likely voted for Trump,  disapprove of the lgbt community, still promote modesty, pants included and plan on having more kids. BUT she wore chucks and said what every homophobe says about lgbt acceptance.  

I know speaking out against Jim Bob and MIchelle is great, but after reading that People magazine article and going down the rabbit hole on various sites ,I'm a little skeptical about everything. 

 

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Scrappinmac

What's the big deal about her wearing a pair of sneakers? The shoes have been around for decades. I had a pair of purple ones when I was a kid in the 1970's. My dd has a cute pair or two now at 26 yrs. old. They're cute, but not a rebellious fashion statement.

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SassyPants
35 minutes ago, Stop_Counting said:

Thank you!

I cringe when people cheer because Jill is wearing chucks, while admitting she probably voted for Trump. Idon't know what's crazier this or everyone cheering when they basically said "hate the sin love the sinnner" about the lgbt community.  The bar is so low for us. 

That People magazine interview is interesting. She doesn't use hormonal birth control because it might cause abortion!. Also they want more kids. But not 19. But you knows what God wants!!!!

So to recap Jill and Derick are still conservative and most likely voted for Trump,  disapprove of the lgbt community, still promote modesty, pants included and plan on having more kids. BUT she wore chucks and said what every homophobe says about lgbt acceptance.  

I know speaking out against Jim Bob and MIchelle is great, but after reading that People magazine article and going down the rabbit hole on various sites ,I'm a little skeptical about everything. 

 

It all starts with questioning the bath water that you have been bathed in. Jill was bathed in water that is incongruent with life in 2021. The Dillards are not isolating their kids from others, denying education, producing children that they can not properly care for or meet basic needs. They attend a real church, take classes, have friends, have an alcoholic beverage, if they want, and wear the clothes they want to wear. I think they have made tremendous strides in the past 6 years and their children will benefit greatly. Give them time in our diverse world and maybe some of their other less than stellar views will change too.

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luv2laugh
11 minutes ago, Scrappinmac said:

What's the big deal about her wearing a pair of sneakers? The shoes have been around for decades. I had a pair of purple ones when I was a kid in the 1970's. My dd has a cute pair or two now at 26 yrs. old. They're cute, but not a rebellious fashion statement.

There was a social media trend of honoring Kamala by wearing chucks. Many people posted pics of them doing it on Inauguration Day and Jill was one of them.

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Scrappinmac
1 minute ago, luv2laugh said:

There was a social media trend of honoring Kamala by wearing chucks. Many people posted pics of them doing it on Inauguration Day and Jill was one of them.

Ah- got it! That makes sense!

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Stop_Counting
1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

It all starts with questioning the bath water that you have been bathed in. Jill was bathed in water that is incongruent with life in 2021. The Dillards are not isolating their kids from others, denying education, producing children that they can not properly care for or meet basic needs. They attend a real church, take classes, have friends, have an alcoholic beverage, if they want, and wear the clothes they want to wear. I think they have made tremendous strides in the past 6 years and their children will benefit greatly. Give them time in our diverse world and maybe some of their other less than stellar views will change too.

Most of the stuff who've said descibes many fundies, including Gotharides. Most don't have babies every  year, go to real churches, and a few attend real schools. The list goes on. My point is Jill and Derick have made some very vague statements, but they have been very clear about certain issues.  In my opinion they have done and said very little to make me think their views will change. They seem to be doing some things differently, but you could say that about many second generation fundies, including members  of her family. If they were in any other family we wouldn't overlook certain things they've said.

 

 

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SassyPants
3 minutes ago, Stop_Counting said:

Most of the stuff who've said descibes many fundies, including Gotharides. Most don't have babies every  year, go to real churches, and a few attend real schools. The list goes on. My point is Jill and Derick have made some very vague statements, but they have been very clear about certain issues.  In my opinion they have done and said very little to make me think their views will change. They seem to be doing some things differently, but you could say that about many second generation fundies, including members  of her family. If they were in any other family we wouldn't overlook certain things they've said.

 

 

I will agree some others have made incremental changes for themselves, live wearing pants. However, none have to the degree that the Dillards have. Any others sending kids to public school? Admit to using BC or drinking alcohol? Yes, the changes made are to their benefit and not necessarily to society’s at large, but again, those changes may come as time goes on. 

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Stop_Counting
15 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I will agree some others have made incremental changes for themselves, live wearing pants. However, none have to the degree that the Dillards have. Any others sending kids to public school? Admit to using BC or drinking alcohol? Yes, the changes made are to their benefit and not necessarily to society’s at large, but again, those changes may come as time goes on. 

Those changes are all good, but she is stil a BIGOT and when  taking about those changes she sounds fundie. She might end up being another Susanna Keller. I'm sure there are other examples of people who left Gothard, but are still horrible.  I'm not applauding bigots because they drink alcohol now, like most bigots and conservatives in this country. Give me a reason I should be hopeful about them changing.  I mean real change. They both still seems very very conservative and his attention seeking makes me side eye anything they say or do.

I can't argue anymore. I don't think we're going to change each others mind.  If I'm wrong I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I think we should look I them with some skepticism.

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Idlewild

I don’t think they’ve entirely left the grifting lifestyle either - yes Derick is training to get a professional qualification- but he already had one and wasn’t that keen to hold down a job. They solicited funds directly to fund their ‘missionary’ work (which included several flights home) , they admit they’d like to do TV on their own terms and then there’s the book.

Jill is expanding her horizons by reading material other than the bible but I don’t recall her saying she’d like to qualify to do anything outside the home. 

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CarrotCake
15 hours ago, haroldtheyrefundies said:

basically, if any of Jill's kids turns out to be LGBT, they will have to wait and come out until they are 18 and out of the house. Which is really sad to think about. 

The boys are still young. It they are trans, they could already be in a position where they cannot be themselves but if they turn out to be gay there are some years left before they probably will realize.

So who knows which steps will be taken before that? I still have hope...

 

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seraaa
10 hours ago, Stop_Counting said:

Most of the stuff who've said descibes many fundies, including Gotharides. Most don't have babies every  year, go to real churches, and a few attend real schools. The list goes on. My point is Jill and Derick have made some very vague statements, but they have been very clear about certain issues.  In my opinion they have done and said very little to make me think their views will change. They seem to be doing some things differently, but you could say that about many second generation fundies, including members  of her family. If they were in any other family we wouldn't overlook certain things they've said.

 

 

But she isn't in another family, and the changes they have made away from her childhood are signficant in that context.

Will they make other changes? Who knows, it's up to them, but I think we can acknowledge they way she has broken from her upbringing while still keeping everything in perspective.

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Kelsey

I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't support lbgt rights but still voted for Biden. I know several people who regularly say shit like "god made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" and still voted for Biden.

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FrumperedCat

The sad thing is that if any of Jill and DD's children were LGBT then their parents views might seem comparatively mild compared to their cousins. That is if they actually have interaction with Duggar cousins at that point. Also Jill doesn't talk about whether her take on it would lead to shunning of their child. I'd like to think that given her experiences she and DD wouldn't take things to that extent.

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Maggie Mae
39 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

Sometimes people write here like conservative bigots are a small minority in the US, but Trump had the second most votes in history. He got over 74 million votes.

This is true, but we also have more voters than ever before, and voting is easier than ever. The chances of people "not knowing" about election day are getting further and further behind, as we are all so connected through social media, the internet, ads, and TV. Gone are the days when people could just not know. There will be even more voters in four years, and that record will be smashed, thank whatever deity. 

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louisa05

I have a friend who grew up homeschooled, full blown patriarchy, skirts only, one taste of alcohol makes you an alcoholic, etc... In the early 00s, I scandalized her and her husband by suggesting that legalization of gay marriage would have no negative impact on straight marriages at all. 
Today, she’s so far left that I honestly can barely stand her. She’s so determined not to live the patriarchal lifestyle she grew uP in that she won’t get her own food. Husband has to do it for her. And she’s so determined not to be biased against lgbtq that she once lamented to me that her daughters were straight and cis. 
When I first met her in 1996, she was just experimenting with wearing pants. It took her nearly 20 years to get to where she is. When they first left their fundy church, she sounded a lot like Jill does now. 
This may be as far out as they get. It may not be. But waking away from it all doesn’t happen overnight. 

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Pleiades_06

What I worry about is Jill getting airtime in major publications like People. I know she’s made progress and I don’t stand in her shoes, so I don’t know what kind of struggle she’s going through. But she expressed anti-LBGTQ views and there are people who will read that and feel justified in expressing their own bigoted views. Thank goodness People actually countered what she said in the interview.

And of course we should never forget what a pos Derick was during the whole Jazz debacle. 

 

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OrchidBlossom
3 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

Sometimes people write here like conservative bigots are a small minority in the US, but Trump had the second most votes in history. He got over 74 million votes. Some of them from people that doesn’t even like him just because he was the antiabortion choice.

It doesn’t seem very weird to be the Jill kind of conservative in Arkansas. I think we’re expecting too much of her if we pretty much demand she becomes a pro-choice democratic feminist instantly. She might get there, weirder things have happened but every little step she takes away from her parents believes is worth something. Especially for her children.

This part is the key to me. Even if Jill stops right where she is at, she's given her children a chance to be molded by real social discourse and by peers who come from different walks of life. Maybe she lives and dies anti-LGTBQ but her kids are supportive of gay marriage. Or grow up and go to college and have trans friends. Marry women who work outside the home. Use birth control. 

I don't expect Jill and Derick to start attending pride and voting for Bernie. I expect them to keep their bigoted views. If I am pleasantly surprised, great. Who knows, maybe her Chucks really did mean she voted Biden/Harris. But my hope is for their kids who now have a shot at a more well rounded, informed worldview. And maybe that'll even have a ripple effect on a few of the cousins, who knows.

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Smee
On 1/24/2021 at 2:24 PM, Stop_Counting said:

Those changes are all good, but she is stil a BIGOT and when  taking about those changes she sounds fundie. She might end up being another Susanna Keller. I'm sure there are other examples of people who left Gothard, but are still horrible.  I'm not applauding bigots because they drink alcohol now, like most bigots and conservatives in this country. Give me a reason I should be hopeful about them changing.  I mean real change. They both still seems very very conservative and his attention seeking makes me side eye anything they say or do.

I can't argue anymore. I don't think we're going to change each others mind.  If I'm wrong I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I think we should look I them with some skepticism.

My hope is not so much for Jill herself as it is for Sam and Izzy. Even at five years old Israel has probably been exposed to a wider variety of people and ideas than his cousin Mackynzie who is twice his age. He's been encouraged to tell an adult if he sees/hears/experiences sexual stuff and not to worry about "tattling". He'll grow up knowing that his Mom attended therapy and it's absolutely ok to reach out for help alongside praying about stuff. Odds are one day he'll have at least one classmate who is gay or raised by gay parents, and he'll have to reconcile his parents' views with an actual human who he meets for longer than a 20 minute conversion attempt. 

Jill and Derrick may always be run-of-the-mill conservative religious Arkansas bigots, but they are no JB and Michelle and they are not raising their sons to be the next Josh. It's a low bar, for sure, but it's something.

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Topaz

Jill might be pleased to see a female VP and support her as a woman without supporting her politically. 
 

My country has had 2 female Prime Ministers and I’m happy that we have even though I wouldn’t dream of voting for the party they led. I’m no fan of Thatcher or May’s politics, but the fact that they were PM helps to normalise women at the top level of politics. Jill could feel the same way about Kamala Harris.

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louisa05
11 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

This part is the key to me. Even if Jill stops right where she is at, she's given her children a chance to be molded by real social discourse and by peers who come from different walks of life. Maybe she lives and dies anti-LGTBQ but her kids are supportive of gay marriage. Or grow up and go to college and have trans friends. Marry women who work outside the home. Use birth control. 

I don't expect Jill and Derick to start attending pride and voting for Bernie. I expect them to keep their bigoted views. If I am pleasantly surprised, great. Who knows, maybe her Chucks really did mean she voted Biden/Harris. But my hope is for their kids who now have a shot at a more well rounded, informed worldview. And maybe that'll even have a ripple effect on a few of the cousins, who knows.

My friend helped organize Pride in her city in 2019. And was a Bernie or bust voter in 2016. 
It could happen. 

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SassyPants
12 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

This part is the key to me. Even if Jill stops right where she is at, she's given her children a chance to be molded by real social discourse and by peers who come from different walks of life. Maybe she lives and dies anti-LGTBQ but her kids are supportive of gay marriage. Or grow up and go to college and have trans friends. Marry women who work outside the home. Use birth control. 

I don't expect Jill and Derick to start attending pride and voting for Bernie. I expect them to keep their bigoted views. If I am pleasantly surprised, great. Who knows, maybe her Chucks really did mean she voted Biden/Harris. But my hope is for their kids who now have a shot at a more well rounded, informed worldview. And maybe that'll even have a ripple effect on a few of the cousins, who knows.

This is key to me because they are raising their boys to be more respectful and contributing members of society. JB did not do that. He isolated and withheld education from his kids. His adult kids are barely functional in the real world, and they are not respectful of others’ beliefs. Another thing we FJers have to remember is that fundies are allowed to have their own beliefs as long as they do not hurt others. Obviously, I do not respect the Dillards current stand on LGBTQ issues, but they are certainly allowed to have those beliefs. Unless you want them proscribing what you believe, you can not do the same to them. All we can do is vote and support education.

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Idlewild

I think Jill and Derick have been clever here. When Jinger took on paid endorsements there was a lot of fuss about giving contracts to bigots, especially those who are anti LGBT. Jinger even lost some of the sponsors.

Jill and Derick and Josh and Anna  are the only second generation Duggars who have been openly anti LGBT ( Josh with his FRC bleating and Anna with her now deleted retweet about gay parents hurting their children when they were in DC). Derick has never wound back on his comments about Jazz or Nate and Jeremiah, Jill has repeated she believes marriage is only between a man and a woman and there’s the comments in her People interview about ‘lifestyle’.
Jill post her Chucks photo- lots of warm praise , people speculating she is a Democrat or progressive and has moved on from her parents bigoted stance.

Having garnered all this interest and discussion her next 2 posts are new paid partnerships - and absolutely no push back. Jeremy may think he’s clever but Jill and Derick have out manoeuvred them! 

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CarrotCake

I also think part of it is the brands Jill advertises compared to Jinger.

For instance, the modest sportwear brand makes complete sense in the whole image of Jill, where a mainstream donutbrand does not fit with Jinger. 

I feel like Jill only picks the brands that she really likes herself where Jinger just picks the brands that she would like to be associated with. And then we have Anna who seems to take every random brand that wants to advertise with her. 

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