Maxwell 41: Taking a Short Vest Rest

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

@Bethy, I’m always reminded of the old saying, “If you can control the way people dress, you can control the way they think.”

I don't think it is true anymore. Look at Bates daughters (except Erin and Michaela). Those modern outfits and still the same old hateful beliefs. Chelsy Maxwell is as extreme as Anna Marie, no matter her jeans... 

[Giraffe]

I have a random question about the Maxwells and others like them. 

My day to day life revolves around a loved one with dementia. Sometimes those with dementia make some seriously bizarre decisions and prior to realizing what’s going on, life can be chaotic, confusing and maddening (in a different way than it can be after the official diagnosis).

How would these sons drenched in a Maxwellian hyper authoritarian environment where the patriarch’s decisions are the be-all end-all handle it if one day Steve began exhibiting behavior changes? They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

When Teri won’t even order food without Steve’s ok,  how much farther down the path of cognitive impairment would these controlling, micromanaging fathers need to be for their sons to step in and take over? 
 

* I know the older Max kids seemed to have some normal experiences until Steve locked them all down. Many of them, including the reversals, have experienced this since birth. 

[Hane]

That “what some would call a vacation” sounds like drudgery.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I have a random question about the Maxwells and others like them. 

My day to day life revolves around a loved one with dementia. Sometimes those with dementia make some seriously bizarre decisions and prior to realizing what’s going on, life can be chaotic, confusing and maddening (in a different way than it can be after the official diagnosis).

How would these sons drenched in a Maxwellian hyper authoritarian environment where the patriarch’s decisions are the be-all end-all handle it if one day Steve began exhibiting behavior changes? They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

When Teri won’t even order food without Steve’s ok,  how much farther down the path of cognitive impairment would these controlling, micromanaging fathers need to be for their sons to step in and take over? 
 

* I know the older Max kids seemed to have some normal experiences until Steve locked them all down. Many of them, including the reversals, have experienced this since birth. 

This is an excellent question.  
 

how old were the eldest 3 when the reversals started coming?

[kpmom]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

I have a random question about the Maxwells and others like them. 

My day to day life revolves around a loved one with dementia. Sometimes those with dementia make some seriously bizarre decisions and prior to realizing what’s going on, life can be chaotic, confusing and maddening (in a different way than it can be after the official diagnosis).

How would these sons drenched in a Maxwellian hyper authoritarian environment where the patriarch’s decisions are the be-all end-all handle it if one day Steve began exhibiting behavior changes? They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

When Teri won’t even order food without Steve’s ok,  how much farther down the path of cognitive impairment would these controlling, micromanaging fathers need to be for their sons to step in and take over? 
 

* I know the older Max kids seemed to have some normal experiences until Steve locked them all down. Many of them, including the reversals, have experienced this since birth. 

Honestly, I think the sons are much more in charge of their lives than a lot of us here on FJ believe. 

Joseph has his own I.T. business, and while two of his brothers are employed by him, Steve isn't even listed as an employee anymore.  Not that I think he did much as "Chief Synergist".  I always assumed that was just a bone they threw him.

I really wonder how Steve fills his days lately, tbh. Those Suddenly Steve posts couldn't take much time.

[lilith]

4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I have a random question about the Maxwells and others like them. 

My day to day life revolves around a loved one with dementia. Sometimes those with dementia make some seriously bizarre decisions and prior to realizing what’s going on, life can be chaotic, confusing and maddening (in a different way than it can be after the official diagnosis).

How would these sons drenched in a Maxwellian hyper authoritarian environment where the patriarch’s decisions are the be-all end-all handle it if one day Steve began exhibiting behavior changes? They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

When Teri won’t even order food without Steve’s ok,  how much farther down the path of cognitive impairment would these controlling, micromanaging fathers need to be for their sons to step in and take over? 
 

* I know the older Max kids seemed to have some normal experiences until Steve locked them all down. Many of them, including the reversals, have experienced this since birth. 

The adult Maxwell children and Teri’s parents have stood back and watched as Steve made decisions that damaged the lives of his children and hurt his mentally ill wife, so I’m guessing they’ll humour any delusions and try to control him with rigid scheduling if dementia comes knocking. I know they believe The Elderly should be cared for by their family in their homes (if you send them to assisted living facilities who knows what sort of religious lunatics will have access to them).

[calliopecassandra]

On 8/25/2020 at 5:07 PM, Giraffe said:

@Don'tlikekoolaid, 

*How did I not know this?! 

I wouldn't have known either!

On 8/25/2020 at 10:19 PM, Cults-r-us said:

Oh, how gross. Recently

I related a lady I work with knew them years ago before the cult, and "they seemed so normal".

Maybe it's cuz I'm tired but ... Ohhhh you related, as in you told us or someone else? 

[fundiefan]

16 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Maybe the kids shouldn't let those two loose in the mountains by themselves again.  Two wrong turns on one hiking trip in the mountains isn't good.

Two wrong turns in one trip in a place they've been to how many times before? 

Steve makes an idol of Colorado & 14ers. I think it's time to hang it up old man. 

9 hours ago, lilith said:

The adult Maxwell children and Teri’s parents have stood back and watched as Steve made decisions that damaged the lives of his children and hurt his mentally ill wife, so I’m guessing they’ll humour any delusions and try to control him with rigid scheduling if dementia comes knocking. I know they believe The Elderly should be cared for by their family in their homes (if you send them to assisted living facilities who knows what sort of religious lunatics will have access to them).

Steve's mother was in a care facility. 

[PennySycamore]

20 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Scary. I’ve never heard that before but it makes sense. 

I've always felt that conformity -and not just on a surface level- was one of the reasons for school dress codes.  Can't have the kids learning to think for themselves or to express themselves freely, can we? 

[SPHASH]

4 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Steve's mother was in a care facility. 

Steve's mother had Alzheimer's.  She was mentioned on the blog a few times.  They never even mentioned her passing, I discovered it by accident:

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by SPHASH
ETA

[PennySycamore]

@Giraffe,  I thought you were the FJite that had the plumbing problem.  I do too.  I think the main toilet is leaking-not on the floor, but under the house.  The plumber is coming tomorrow afternoon.  I may need to run to Target and get some air fresheners.  Not only is one toilet unusable ATM, the cat has learned to let herself out into the backyard.  I have to get the door from the kitchen into the Florida room locked until the door knob is replaced.  You don't even need to turn the knob to pull the door open.  

 

 

[Giraffe]

@PennySycamore, I will absolutely take my plumbing problems over yours! That’s terrifying about your cat, too (assuming yours is an indoor only cat)! I hope they fix it for you quickly at a low rate!

[Howl]

23 hours ago, Giraffe said:

They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

This brought to mind a young woman whose fiance suffered brain damage in a car wreck, leaving him with major cognitive impairment and serious impulse control issues.

Every one insisted he was still the patriarch material because penis, they got married and then went on to have a baby.  This was a few years ago and she was followed for awhile on fj.  

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, Howl said:

This brought to mind a young woman whose fiance suffered brain damage in a car wreck, leaving him with major cognitive impairment and serious impulse control issues.

Every one insisted he was still the patriarch material because penis, they got married and then went on to have a baby.  This was a few years ago and she was followed for awhile on fj.  

 

I remember that.  I don't recall the name but I noped out of that thread quickly as it was too heartbreaking.

[Howl]

19 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I remember that.  I don't recall the name but I noped out of that thread quickly as it was too heartbreaking.

Yes, it was astoundingly painful to read about on so many levels.  I think the thread ran out of steam (possibly the people being discussed made all social media private) around the time they had a baby. There was some discussion of the ethics of having sex, if he did not have sufficient agency to consent. 

[Black Aliss]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

This brought to mind a young woman whose fiance suffered brain damage in a car wreck, leaving him with major cognitive impairment and serious impulse control issues.

Every one insisted he was still the patriarch material because penis, they got married and then went on to have a baby.  This was a few years ago and she was followed for awhile on fj.  

 

That was Ian and Larissa. They were engaged at the time of Ian's injury. IIRC, Ian's father basically insisted that they marry after the accident. My memory is that Larissa spoke for Ian and it was never clear that he was capable of the level of thinking and expression that she attributed to him. It looks like they had a child about 3 1/2 years ago.

We also followed two other couples, Ben and Katie and Kathleen and Cale. Both couples were already married at the time of their accidents. Similar traumatic brain injuries, but one of them (I think Cale) had severe rage episodes as well as other behavioral issues as a result of his TBI. Kathleen and Cale had two children who must be school-age by now. Her mother lives with them so there is help with the kids and caregiving.

Ben and Katie have at least one child. She hasn't blogged in at least 4 years. Ben seemed to be the least cognitively impaired of the three men and even able to participate in some aspects of parenting.

Of course, all of this is from some years ago and with years of therapy, people with TBIs can recover to some extent. I hope all is going well for all three couples.

[Bethy]

9 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

That was Ian and Larissa. They were engaged at the time of Ian's injury. IIRC, Ian's father basically insisted that they marry after the accident. My memory is that Larissa spoke for Ian and it was never clear that he was capable of the level of thinking and expression that she attributed to him. It looks like they had a child about 3 1/2 years ago.

They weren't engaged, though. When I first read about them (I think through Carolyn McCulley, an author/blogger and C.J. Mahaney disciple) Larissa was describing herself as his "pre-fiancee" because they had talked about marriage and he was working two jobs to save for a ring when the accident happened. This was at a time when much was being made of "intentionality" in dating relationships, and dating for any length of time (by which I really mean, going on any dates at all) without planning for marriage was Very Bad. I poked around on here and found the other threads about them and it was the most depressing thing I've read all week. Larissa sounds clinically depressed and trapped. What escaped my notice the first time around was that she was only 20 when this happened, and Ian's dad made her commit to being Ian's lifelong "nurse with benefits" as one of the posters on the other thread said, as if she could possibly have had a clue what that entailed.

I guess the crucial difference between them and the other couples discussed, as well as any long-time couple where the husband loses his mental faculties, is that they actually HADN'T made a lifelong commitment, but Larissa basically got strong-armed into it.

[SassyPants]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:47 PM, lilith said:

The adult Maxwell children and Teri’s parents have stood back and watched as Steve made decisions that damaged the lives of his children and hurt his mentally ill wife, so I’m guessing they’ll humour any delusions and try to control him with rigid scheduling if dementia comes knocking. I know they believe The Elderly should be cared for by their family in their homes (if you send them to assisted living facilities who knows what sort of religious lunatics will have access to them).

Like the weirdo who might come in every Sunday, with his own family in tow, to preach his brand of religion?

Yes, facilities should do a better job of weeding out the weirdos who they let through the doors to indoctrinate the elderly in their care.

[Joe Pukepail]

On 8/26/2020 at 2:57 PM, Giraffe said:

I have a random question about the Maxwells and others like them. 

My day to day life revolves around a loved one with dementia. Sometimes those with dementia make some seriously bizarre decisions and prior to realizing what’s going on, life can be chaotic, confusing and maddening (in a different way than it can be after the official diagnosis).

How would these sons drenched in a Maxwellian hyper authoritarian environment where the patriarch’s decisions are the be-all end-all handle it if one day Steve began exhibiting behavior changes? They’re taught unquestioning obedience from birth*. Would the sons take charge or would they continue submitting out of “respect” for their elder?

When Teri won’t even order food without Steve’s ok,  how much farther down the path of cognitive impairment would these controlling, micromanaging fathers need to be for their sons to step in and take over? 
 

* I know the older Max kids seemed to have some normal experiences until Steve locked them all down. Many of them, including the reversals, have experienced this since birth. 

Considering the condescending way they speak about The Elderly, I'm pretty sure adult sons would have no problem wresting control from a father who acquired a cognitive impairment, whether from dementia or some other mechanism. However, in the case of Steve Maxwell and some of the other fundamentalist "Dads" who seem to have bought into the paternalistic lifestyle wholesale, I think the dementia would have to be advanced to the point that they were almost completely unaware of their surroundings for them to give up control without a fight. Even normal older people with Alzheimer disease or other types of dementia struggle when the disease is advanced enough to affect their daily activities but not enough to make them unaware of their decline. I have a young family member who was diagnosed with a devastating form of childhood dementia. He/she is nonverbal now, but the last sentence he/she was able to vocalize regularly was, "Help me, Mommy. I'm scared." I think a lot of patients with neurodegenerative disorders probably experience that early feeling that something very bad and scary is happening, but don't necessarily know what it is.

I wonder if dementia and age related cognitive decline is part of what happened with the Westboro gang. What's his nuts doesn't seem the type to willingly relinquish control.

[Giraffe]

@PennySycamore, did your plumbing get squared away?

[PennySycamore]

4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

@PennySycamore, did your plumbing get squared away?

The plumber was supposed to come this afternoon, but Corley had a bunch of plumbing emergencies and so our problem is re-scheduled for Monday afternoon.  

[CyborgKin]

Well since Sarah's doing awkward and shameless advertising of her books, I don't feel too bad linking this again:

 

[lilith]

8 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

Well since Sarah's doing awkward and shameless advertising of her books, I don't feel too bad linking this again:

 

Is this your writing? I really really enjoyed the first chapters, lost interest a little after the escape, but I’m enjoying the other sister’s views on the theocracy. I’ll go and check for new chapters now.

Edit - yay, heaps more has been added, that’s my evening reading sorted! 

Edited August 29, 2020 by lilith

[freejugar]

They've posted an Anna update.

Why would she need dental work?

Can't she just take a pill for vitamin C? why would she need to go to a clinic?

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, freejugar said:

They've posted an Anna update.

Why would she need dental work?

Can't she just take a pill for vitamin C? why would she need to go to a clinic?

Well that’s what her “naturopathic oncologist” suggests. I can’t help but side eye every naturopath. Even if they’ve had many years of education. There are so many naturopaths that seem to push woo that I can’t help but side eye all of them. But here’s the thing... Anna Marie goes to a regular oncologist too. So I guess if she wants to consult this naturopath too, then meh. As long as she’s getting treatment from an actual oncologist. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by JermajestyDuggar