Dillards 84: Craving Attention

[AussieKrissy]

10 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

I think both outfits are horrendously ugly but good on her for finding her own style. 

I actually don’t mind the black one on her. I have to admit, the hippy earth mother suits Jill. If she wasn’t in the duggar cult, I could totally see her as a full dread lock vegan hippy. You go Jilll. More power to you. Ps stop spreading bible hate shit. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by AussieKrissy

[LurkerOverThePond]

12 hours ago, frugalitymom said:

Something has changed in her mind and that’s great especially if she getting proper help for the situation she was raised in and even finds out who she is on a personal level without hubby’s opinion. 

This so much. I think she is still lightyears away from this, but you have to start somewhere. That air freshener ("no longer a slave to fear") speaks volumes.

Edited May 24, 2020 by LurkerOverThePond

[WiseGirl]

1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

That air freshener ("no longer a slave to fear") speaks volumes.

I totally agree with this. Regarding the clothes Boho is Jill's style and it suits her. She finding herself, which is something most of us had the opportunity to do at a younger age, and good for her.  While  I'm no fan of DD and the hate he spouts I do find it a positive that he is encouraging Jill to work through her upbringing and cult.   Better to be the spouse of someone encouraging growth (Derek) than one that wants the minister/Stepford wife look (Jeremy) imo. This couple seems to be growing and the farther they grow away from the cult of JB the better.

[Johannah]

4 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I suppose he could have thought extreme fundamentalism offered a way of life so reached out to millionaire reality TV star Jim Bob for inspiration. The cynic in me says he fancied a ride on the gravy train. He seemed quite happy to go along with the charade for long enough though.

if he endorses Trump again I’d be inclined to think the bohemian image extends to clothing and soft furnishings only.

His missioncations to Nepal and SCA, and his willingness to go along with a chaperoned courtship, make me think he genuinely went full fundie. But law school and recent child spacing and public school for Israel make me think he may be starting to find his way back. Inviting his evolution-teaching, environmental-activist former teacher to his wedding makes me think maybe he was never completely lost. 

[SassyPants]

10 hours ago, Johannah said:

I know one of Derick’s former teachers (not super well, but they are a friend of a family member). This teacher and their spouse were invited to Derick’s wedding. I would describe them both as hippie liberal activist types, and they definitely deliberately taught overtly non-fundie approved content in class.

When I asked about their invitation/attendance at the time of the wedding, this person had nothing but positive things to say about DD and his family. I know they invited trillions of people to their wedding, but I was still surprised this particular person would have had a relationship close and lasting enough with DD to warrant a wedding invitation.

At the time I just dismissed it as being due to a small community and a gigantic wedding, but their recent educational and life choices have made me rethink it. Maybe Derick is not quite so steeped in the kool-aid, or maybe he went through a phase, but is finding his way back.  

The highlighted is my exact thought. He feel down the rabbit hole after the death of his dad, and likely hit rock bottom when his mom was critically ill and fighting for her life. Marriage, a new baby, mission trip, wandering for a few years...I think he has since course corrected and has brought Jill right along with him (good on him for this). I wonder how much a healthy Cathy has been his inspiration and guiding leader? I realllllllllly wonder what she thinks of the Duggar Dog and Pony BS, and how Jill was raised? 

[Idlewild]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

The highlighted is my exact thought. He feel down the rabbit hole after the death of his dad, and likely hit rock bottom when his mom was critically ill and fighting for her life. Marriage, a new baby, mission trip, wandering for a few years...I think he has since course corrected and has brought Jill right along with him (good on him for this). I wonder how much a healthy Cathy has been his inspiration and guiding leader? I realllllllllly wonder what she thinks of the Duggar Dog and Pony BS, and how Jill was raised? 

Maybe. Maybe not. It could just be carving a new image to help with those lucrative endorsements. I’ve said before - if the Dillards want to believe against abortion and same sex marriage- that’s fine. If they support legislation to criminalise either, then they haven’t moved that far away. 

People criticised Jinger and Jeremy for being the same hateful beliefs wrapped in a prettier package. The death of a parent and the ill health of the other parent are traumas that cause us to do all sorts of things- I know this from personal experience. If they actually come out and subscribe to a ‘hippy’ sense of personal liberty for all, then yes, they’re evolving. If not, theyre playing dress up for Instagram likes. I know many of you love Jill and will disagree but these people  (Duggars and their ilk) are so dangerous in their desire to impose their dogma on everyone, I’m going to remain cautious. 

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It could just be carving a new image to help with those lucrative endorsements. I’ve said before - if the Dillards want to believe against abortion and same sex marriage- that’s fine. If they support legislation to criminalise either, then they haven’t moved that far away. 

People criticised Jinger and Jeremy for being the same hateful beliefs wrapped in a prettier package. The death of a parent and the ill health of the other parent are traumas that cause us to do all sorts of things- I know this from personal experience. If they actually come out and subscribe to a ‘hippy’ sense of personal liberty for all, then yes, they’re evolving. If not, theyre playing dress up for Instagram likes. I know many of you love Jill and will disagree but these people  (Duggars and their ilk) are so dangerous in their desire to impose their dogma on everyone, I’m going to remain cautious. 

I think that with the evolution we are talking about here, first you have to put down a new foundation by slowly moving away from one set of beliefs while simultaneously developing and enhancing new ones. Yes, most of their beliefs are horrid by my standards, but you know what, they would likely find my beliefs horrid too. Yep, they’ll attempt to vote their horrid beliefs into legislation and I‘ll do the same ( horrid by their Standards). Maybe our votes cancel out the other’s? I never particularly cared for Jill or DD, but they do seem to be turning away from crazy Gothardism: they believe in education for all people, they do not have rigid activity or clothing standards, they have been married 6 years and have 2 kids, they aren’t selling their kids to support the family, they attend a brick and mortar church, they have friends outside the family...ALL good things, I think.

[DarkAnts]

On 5/23/2020 at 4:35 PM, Idlewild said:

It’s interesting that although it’s flagged as #ad, Jill says she reached out to them as she liked their products. For all Jinger & Jeremy’s posing and feigning sophistication they can’t hang on to a paying gig for longer than 5 minutes, yet here is Jill soliciting her own endorsements. Maybe she could do Jinger’s PR??!

Jill has been wearing the headbands for a while. She has also worn one of the shirts before. I think she also has a pillow from them. I was not surprised when she did the add. 

[CarrotCake]

You can also not expect that someone goes a full 180 in only a few years. If something has been taught to you all your childhood, you will not just throw it away immediately (with some exceptions of course).

The fact that Jill is now finding herself, both in style as in free thinking (the air freshener) and has a partner that looks encouraging might bring her way further than she is now. She is making a few steps and I agree she is still far from leaving fundie(light)dom but I also feel like she will make more steps. And good for her that she is taking the time to think and make these steps one at a time.

[treehugger]

@Idlewild, there’s a pretty huge leap between supporting same-sex marriage and abortion rights and being a Duggar-style fundamentalist.  Especially in certain states.  And the truth is, that might be something they won’t feel comfortable coming out as supporting publicly for decades, even if they would privately.  
 

I grew up conservative Christian (of the John Piper variety), questioned all my beliefs in my early twenties and am now so politically liberal  I find Canada’s Liberal party to be too right wing.  I vote with my convictions every time, and yet, my own family doesn’t know I am pro-choice or supportive of same-sex marriage because I just can’t deal with the emotional trauma telling them that would entail.  Maybe I’m a wuss, or weak, or chicken.  Or maybe it’s taken me a decade to come to a place of some sort of emotional and spiritual healing and perhaps taking care of my own mental health is more important right now.  
 

I don’t think D&J are anywhere near this stage, and they might never be.  Conservative Christians number in the millions in the US, and most of them do not support abortion services or LGTBQ rights (look at the backlash Beth Moore got for being even slightly supportive).  The SBC is huge.  And yet, I don’t know that I’d call every single Conservative Christian in the USA a fundamentalist.  That’s painting a pretty broad stroke.  

[Idlewild]

@treehugger fair enough - I don’t live in the USA. I know people who are against abortion & same sex marriage- but they don’t base their voting entirely on those issues. In 2016 DD supported Trump solely for the issue of abortion- nothing else mattered  he said. That is one of the reasons I have yet to be convinced about the ‘loveable hippies’ image . I suspect this year he’ll probably keep quieter ( if he can) about his voting. I hope all the Dillard fans are right- they are evolving into nice, caring people but it will take more than displaying a freebie air freshener you’re being paid to promote! 

[treehugger]

Aww, it’s cute you think I support the Dillards.  I think he is a jerk in general and I have no doubt he will probably vote Trump again this year.  Politics is religion in the USA, and many, many people base their voting on one issue. 
I never said they were were turning into nice, caring people.  I was merely pointing out the huge gulf between fundamentalist Christianity and being pro-choice/LGBTQ.  The religious/political culture in the USA is an interesting rabbit trail.
 

I find the Dillard’s interesting to watch because they do struggle.  And difficulties are one of the few ways change does happen.  Unlike Jeremy and Jinger who worship at the church of McArthur (and I promise you, as long as Jeremy keeps that kind of company they will never leave  fundamentalist patriarchy), the Dillards are floundering and no longer have as close of ties to an authoritative religious leader.  But no, I am not a fan of theirs.  I just find them most interesting of the couples at the moment.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

I don't like Derrick. That isn't what this is about for me. I am seeing Jill's "wings" grow back, and I see none of that with Jinger. That is exciting to see. 

[treehugger]

I think too, there is a difference between actively courting fundamentalist preachers who publicly verbally abuse woman (ie, the Vuolos with McArthur and Piper and their ilk), and going to a Conservative church but also seeking out therapy and publicly supporting higher education and careers for women (ie Dillards).  I don’t think I will ever like Derrick but I do see change for Jill happening.  

[SassyPants]

33 minutes ago, treehugger said:

I think too, there is a difference between actively courting fundamentalist preachers who publicly verbally abuse woman (ie, the Vuolos with McArthur and Piper and their ilk), and going to a Conservative church but also seeking out therapy and publicly supporting higher education and careers for women (ie Dillards).  I don’t think I will ever like Derrick but I do see change for Jill happening.  

Another thing that is really important to me is that the chain gets broken. The Dillards are doing things differently with their own kids. Now some might say it’s because DD was canned by TLC, but even if so, they’ve made some critical changes. DD is advancing his education, they’ve enrolled ID in public school, they attend a real, although conservative church, they aren’t isolationists and they still only have 2 kids. It’s definitely a start, and when you string these behavior changes together you start to see a different life for their kids. I know many are only concerned (or mainly concerned) about how fundamentalists  affect other people, but I am also concerned with how their decisions affect their own kids. If you can’t put your own kids’ needs before your own whacky thoughts/desires, I have a hard time thinking how you could respect others’  rights.

[Pecansforeveryone]

This is also about how Sammy and Izzy will have more tools to challenge Derrick and Jill's beliefs. Educating your children and not isolating them are big parts of them growing up to be their own person with their own beliefs. It is preciseley why Jim Bob and Michelle undereducated and isolated their own children. 

[Idlewild]

@treehugger I didn’t mean offence by using the term Dillard fan & it certainly wasn’t aimed at you alone. I’m just cautious about how much they’ve really changed. If they start to become more private I think ironically it will show they’re serious about protecting and nurturing their children in a way Jill never was. 

[treehugger]

@Idlewild, that I agree with completely.  Protecting children’s privacy is SO important!  
 

And usually, big changes involve retrospection, which usually necessitates a stepping back from public life.  

Edited May 25, 2020 by treehugger

[Nutella Ace]

I noticed a while back in one of Jill's stories that she had a poster of the poem "As I Grow" up in one of the boys' spaces (bedroom? playroom? I can't remember!) which I think it is a really good sign for her parenting approach and also made me sad reading through the list and realizing how many of these points (trust, attention, exploration of unique potential) Jill didn't get from her parents growing up!

[imokit]

The As I grow up poem is a big deal and quite non-fundy.

Tell me when you make mistakes - ie a parent admitted they aren't always right is very non fundie.  Lots of the authoritarian parenting groups - Pearls, Dobson etc teach that parents are always right, and even if a parent realises they made a mistake (eg falsely accuse a child of doing something) they should never admit it.  Children are to believe that parents are perfect and to be obeyed at all times without hesitation (you can't be expected to obey something that is occasionally wrong)

[Skeptic55]

On the one hand, these changes are encouraging.

On the other hand, it hasn’t even been two years since Derrick once again criticized Jazz Jennings quite forcefully. I won’t hold my breath for their collective enlightenment but will be cautiously hopeful.

[habert]

“No longer a slave to fear” is also a line in the song No Longer Slaves by Bethel Music

[Sullie06]

I do like the black outfit on Jill. I think she's defiantly finding her own style for the first time in her life. She raised being told how to dress, how to style her hair, how to do her make up. Matching her sisters in the frumper days. Likely being told what colors or patterns to wear over the years. Being taught she had to cover her body to protect the virtue of others. Changing her appearance might have no impact on her beliefs but I think in this case it does. Having some autonomy gives her a chance to explore beliefs outside of what she has been taught to believe her whole life. I also think her seeing a licensed therapist is HUGE.

Do I think they ditched all their horrid beliefs? No, not fully. However, they have been less vocal about it recently and maybe, just maybe they are open to change. Truth is, there are people with horrid beliefs everywhere. My brother in law is not a fundy, not even a conservative christian but he is a vapid Trump supporter and very very "right wing" so he very vocally supports anything Trump/Republican support (anti-civil rights, anti-abortion, anti-unions, etc) and he can't even give a reason beyond some regurgitated Fox News shit. But he's also family (he treats my sister-in-law great, he is a wonderful uncle to my kids, etc) so I just refuse to talk to him about those topics and make sure I do my part at the polls when it comes time to vote. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I also have to remind myself that leaving religion altogether might not make them good people. I follow a lot of atheist you tubers, and there was a minute where all the alt-right atheists came out of the woodwork.  So i have to focus on them just learning to be better people. 

[DarkAnts]

8 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

I do like the black outfit on Jill. I think she's defiantly finding her own style for the first time in her life. She raised being told how to dress, how to style her hair, how to do her make up. Matching her sisters in the frumper days. Likely being told what colors or patterns to wear over the years. Being taught she had to cover her body to protect the virtue of others. Changing her appearance might have no impact on her beliefs but I think in this case it does. Having some autonomy gives her a chance to explore beliefs outside of what she has been taught to believe her whole life. I also think her seeing a licensed therapist is HUGE.

Do I think they ditched all their horrid beliefs? No, not fully. However, they have been less vocal about it recently and maybe, just maybe they are open to change. Truth is, there are people with horrid beliefs everywhere. My brother in law is not a fundy, not even a conservative christian but he is a vapid Trump supporter and very very "right wing" so he very vocally supports anything Trump/Republican support (anti-civil rights, anti-abortion, anti-unions, etc) and he can't even give a reason beyond some regurgitated Fox News shit. But he's also family (he treats my sister-in-law great, he is a wonderful uncle to my kids, etc) so I just refuse to talk to him about those topics and make sure I do my part at the polls when it comes time to vote. 

Don't forget that they had long hair and permed it because Daddy liked it that way. They were always thinking about what other people liked. They never considered what they might like. I hope Jill has fun finding her styling.