Dillards 84: Craving Attention

[Pecansforeveryone]

It's pretty standard in conservative Christianity to preach abstinence until marriage. So yes, i think Jill and Derrick will preach that. However, PG displays of affection, including kissing I think will be a go. I think only more extreme fundies do supervised courtships. I had been in Evangelical churches for a decade and never heard of it.

[LacyMay]

I can see them going middle of the road by Conservative Christian standards but fairly conservative by mainstream standards. 

I can see some stricter guidelines about time together (not being behind closed doors, maybe not having friends of the opposite sex in the bedrooms or members of the opposite sex at the house without parents home) and probably some stuff about curfews etc. I think they will put a focus on avoiding temptation but some things will be fine (if not kissing defintely holding hands, hugging etc) I don't think they will be nearly as monitored. 

[finnlassie]

4 hours ago, LacyMay said:

I can see them going middle of the road by Conservative Christian standards but fairly conservative by mainstream standards. 

I can see some stricter guidelines about time together (not being behind closed doors, maybe not having friends of the opposite sex in the bedrooms or members of the opposite sex at the house without parents home) and probably some stuff about curfews etc. I think they will put a focus on avoiding temptation but some things will be fine (if not kissing defintely holding hands, hugging etc) I don't think they will be nearly as monitored. 

Huh. My mum is basically very liberal, but I had many of those rules growing up. Not that I really had boys visit my home or any friends at all, really. Then again, she also didn't ever really give me any kind of talk about safe sex or if she expected me to wait til marriage, which was VERY confusing, I was kinda supposed to know what to do at 15?? I ended up taking the morning after pill a few times because I didn't really know any better. Ok yeah that was just really bad parenting. (edit: to clarify, I did sneak in a couple of my boyfriends because my mum worked long days and was away for weekends sometimes, great job leaving your 16-year-old at home alone)

Edited May 12, 2020 by finnlassie

[LacyMay]

Reading back in the light of day my examples kind of sucked. I was frequently left to my own devices so my barometer for this stuff is skewed. 

My general opinion stays the same though. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by LacyMay

[kmachete14]

I think not opposite sex (or same sex lol depending on the child!) in the bedroom, having a curfew, encouraging teenage abstinence, starting with group dates, limiting time with just one person, are all "normal" parts of parenting teenagers, not even necessarily conservative. It really depends on WHAT they are teaching in conjunction with these things i.e:

Abstinence is the only 100% way to avoid STDs and pregnancy, you should feel completely comfortable, ready, and trusting of your own judgement vs. You will rot in hell and we will disown you if you make a mistake, and if you get assaulted, you probably were almost sinning!! 

Group dates allow you to get to know someone better at first and allow you to pull back from a  situation if you are uncomfortable vs. group dates keep you from SINNING because of all the other eyes on you! 

[FluffySnowball]

I found it a little noticeable that Jill didn’t post a mother’s day tribute to Michelle. In a family that releases videos, writes blog posts, publishes photos, (and as of late even makes YouTube videos) dedicated to Michelle and Jim Bob not saying something about her “sweet mamma with her servant’s heart” might actually be quite a strong message. 

[frugalitymom]

Did she post anything about Cathy on Mother’s Day?  If she did and not her mom that would be really saying something 

[FluffySnowball]

22 minutes ago, frugalitymom said:

Did she post anything about Cathy on Mother’s Day?  If she did and not her mom that would be really saying something 

No, she hasn't acknowledged the day at all as far as I know. But you’re right, congratulating Cathy but not Michelle would be more obvious. Like this, we don’t know if there’s a “message” in Jill’s silence. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by FluffySnowball

[Skeptic55]

Jana, Jesse, and Jinger posted tributes but Joy and Jill did not.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

18 hours ago, Skeptic55 said:

Jana, Jesse, and Jinger posted tributes but Joy and Jill did not.

I'm not surprised by either of them, Jill was Joy's mother not Michelle & I think Jill is finally starting to resent her parents for her shitty childhood spent raising her siblings. 

[JordynDarby5]

17 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm not surprised by either of them, Jill was Joy's mother not Michelle & I think Jill is finally starting to resent her parents for her shitty childhood spent raising her siblings. 

I hope so.

[Nikedagain?]

15 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I hope so.

If anyone had told us 5-10 years ago that we would be cheering Jill on and finding Jinger absolutely insufferable...

[finnlassie]

11 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

If anyone had told us 5-10 years ago that we would be cheering Jill on and finding Jinger absolutely insufferable...

I think Jinger's status as Jeremy's wife has to do with her becoming more insufferable. I said this in their own thread, but Jinger is REALLY starting to rock that republican trophy wife look. Jeremy's family is clearly from a higher status that Duggars could ever be, and she's enjoying luxuries she wouldn't have had as a Duggarette. No matter how much wealth the Duggars might have, they're still just a fundie frumper family from Arkansas. And Jinger is just sucking all of that in.

Jill, on the other hand, married a commoner. Derick wasn't a star, he grew up in a what I'd say is a pretty "normal" American family. I like to believe that his childhood was rather stable and grounded, and now that he's a parent, his own childhood is being reflected not just to their children, but also Jill. Jill needs to understand that in order to raise kids to be level headed citizens, she needs to stay away from pretty much everything she grew up with.

[SassyPants]

The Duggars were such awful, manipulative parents it’s hard to know the exact tipping point for Jill, but I think DD and likely a physically healthy who was able to finally be engaged helped the process along. JB and M made their living and supported their absurd reproductive proclivities off the backs of their children. They hosed their children to suit their own desires. They made their children provide for and care for their younger kids, and all the adult kids with the exception of Jill are doing the same to their own kids. It’s a horrible house of cards/ponzi scheme.

What I want to know is where the Dillards got the money for the house? Was it hush money? Do they have a mortgage? Who is financing law school?

9 minutes ago, finnlassie said:

I think Jinger's status as Jeremy's wife has to do with her becoming more insufferable. I said this in their own thread, but Jinger is REALLY starting to rock that republican trophy wife look. Jeremy's family is clearly from a higher status that Duggars could ever be, and she's enjoying luxuries she wouldn't have had as a Duggarette. No matter how much wealth the Duggars might have, they're still just a fundie frumper family from Arkansas. And Jinger is just sucking all of that in.

Jill, on the other hand, married a commoner. Derick wasn't a star, he grew up in a what I'd say is a pretty "normal" American family. I like to believe that his childhood was rather stable and grounded, and now that he's a parent, his own childhood is being reflected not just to their children, but also Jill. Jill needs to understand that in order to raise kids to be level headed citizens, she needs to stay away from pretty much everything she grew up with.

I agree with most of this, except the wealth of JV’s family. The Duggars were poor before the show because they had too many kids with little every day, reliable income. Sure property is great and can be lucrative, if you’re a hustler and managing it properly. JB really didn’t have the time during those years. He was too busy helping Michelle and driving the crew to the grocery store. If the V’s had had 16 more kids they would have fewer tangibles too.

[finnlassie]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I agree with most of this, except the wealth of JV’s family.

What I meant was status, not wealth in itself. Just because you have wealth, doesn't mean you have the status. If that makes sense?

[SunnySide]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:21 AM, kmachete14 said:

I think not opposite sex (or same sex lol depending on the child!) in the bedroom, having a curfew, encouraging teenage abstinence, starting with group dates, limiting time with just one person, are all "normal" parts of parenting teenagers, not even necessarily conservative. It really depends on WHAT they are teaching in conjunction with these things i.e:

Abstinence is the only 100% way to avoid STDs and pregnancy, you should feel completely comfortable, ready, and trusting of your own judgement vs. You will rot in hell and we will disown you if you make a mistake, and if you get assaulted, you probably were almost sinning!! 

Group dates allow you to get to know someone better at first and allow you to pull back from a  situation if you are uncomfortable vs. group dates keep you from SINNING because of all the other eyes on you! 

I grew up in a not too strict, not too liberal catholic family. And yes the second every single one of us started dating these rules were enforced (no dates in your bedroom, no closed doors, curfew). But never anything as strict as supervised courtship. My parents strongly discouraged how do I say this politely...more intimate contact not only for safety reasons and to avoid pregnancy, but it was a very frank conversation about “hey some emotional stuff comes along with this. If that goes south are you at 16-17 really prepared to deal with that?” It’s not impossible but it’s  lot to deal with.

[mpheels]

I don’t think the difference between the Voulos and Dillard’s is one of hierarchical socioeconomic class. It’s more a difference in regional cultures. Derrick grew up in the same region as the Duggars, in similarly small town/rural setting. Religion aside, they would have had similar cultural experiences that are perceived by outsiders as “redneck” or low-class.  Jeremy grew up in the Northeastern suburbs, where the cultural touchstones are widely perceived as being “classier.” I grew up in the rural south and now live in Boston. Due to my career, I spend a lot of time adjacent to the very wealthy (I’m an academic and have to schmooze with donors - think professional sports team owners and major property developers). I assure you there are very wealthy/upper class folks in the south who engage in the same “redneck” activities as the Duggars, and the Vuolos absolutely would not fit in with the very rich people of the Northeast.

Ultimately this means  Jill can gradually shift her religious and political views while more or less staying true to the secular culture she’s grew up with while JinJer is changing her secular self to meet Jeremy’s expectations, but the general nature of her religion and politics is unchanged. It also possibly made it easier for Jim Bob to miss (or overlook) signs that Derrick might not toe the line, but Jeremy had to prove himself as a true believer.

[finnlassie]

As I stated before, I'm not speaking about status as a thing of how much wealth and money you have, but purely the social part of it. The Duggars have the stigma of being creepy fundie frumpers, but the Vuolos don't have that background and never will. Sure, a young lady from the frumps married Jeremy, but it seems like Jinger is full on enjoying being a Vuolo rather than a DUggar.

[SassyPants]

50 minutes ago, finnlassie said:

As I stated before, I'm not speaking about status as a thing of how much wealth and money you have, but purely the social part of it. The Duggars have the stigma of being creepy fundie frumpers, but the Vuolos don't have that background and never will. Sure, a young lady from the frumps married Jeremy, but it seems like Jinger is full on enjoying being a Vuolo rather than a DUggar.

I agree that beyond the easy money generated from working on the Duggar Family show, Jinger has basically turned her back on her parents’ lifestyle. Sure she’s still churchy and speaks the Jesus speak, but all that buy used, no debt, eat slop, flip flops while hiking, new baby every 13 months, that’s all gone. The professed, unique values and choices of JB and M  are gone. The last time Jeremy was even in Arkansas visiting the Duggars was for GMM’s services, beyond that have the Vuolos spent any time in Duggarville? Ever spend a major holiday with her family? IMO, Jeremy might detest the Duggars just as much as DD, but he has found the best antidote, distance.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, finnlassie said:

As I stated before, I'm not speaking about status as a thing of how much wealth and money you have, but purely the social part of it. The Duggars have the stigma of being creepy fundie frumpers, but the Vuolos don't have that background and never will. Sure, a young lady from the frumps married Jeremy, but it seems like Jinger is full on enjoying being a Vuolo rather than a DUggar.

I think you are talking about class, the Vuolo's have class, the Duggar's do not.

[finnlassie]

I think there's a bit of a language barrier here, in Finnish when you say status it can mean either, really, wealth or class. We don't have a word for "class" in this context/meaning. And if we do, God, please, some other Finn, tell me...

[Glasgowghirl]

I used to find Derick so insufferable and didn't mind Jeremy that much but more and more I'm starting to find Jeremy the worst. I don't agree with many of the things Derick has said about stuff and still not his biggest fan but him and Jill have taken in the past couple of year's have meant their sons at least have a better chance of having a somewhat normal upbringing, especially with them going to school. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I think Derrick isn't as threatened by his wife having an education or a job as Jeremy would be. A lack of education is truly hobbling and to my mind a form of subtle abuse in itself. It's like cutting a birds wings so it doesn't fly away. If Jill's "wings" grow back with Derrick's help that is very real progress indeed. 

[SassyPants]

27 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I think Derrick isn't as threatened by his wife having an education or a job as Jeremy would be. A lack of education is truly hobbling and to my mind a form of subtle abuse in itself. It's like cutting a birds wings so it doesn't fly away. If Jill's "wings" grow back with Derrick's help that is very real progress indeed. 

I can not love this comment enough. That is exactly what JB and M did to each of their kids. They chopped off their wings and held them hostage; denied them any opportunity for individual growth, and relegated them to a life of aimless, goalless servitude to them. 

[Glasgowghirl]

7 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I think Derrick isn't as threatened by his wife having an education or a job as Jeremy would be. A lack of education is truly hobbling and to my mind a form of subtle abuse in itself. It's like cutting a birds wings so it doesn't fly away. If Jill's "wings" grow back with Derrick's help that is very real progress indeed. 

Jeremy seems to see Jinger as a trophy wife, where as I think Derick would be open to Jill going to college if she chose to.