M is for Mama 17

[Giraffe]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:23 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

From what we've seen of Shaun, I don't think he's done any of the parenting expect showing up in the family photos. Which isn't parenting at all. He's never there because of work travel and when he is (rarely) he's holed up in his office.  I'm convinced he never wanted 10 children, but now he has them he simply ignores parenting because he didn't/ doesn't want to parent 10 children.

Yup. When I was at my most fundy I attended a church where a lot of the fathers with large families did a lot of traveling for work. Looking back I wonder.  I'm sure some of them had jobs where they traveled that much and seemed like they were probably as quiverfull as their wife. But there were definitely a few who, looking back, I could see living a double life. Yes, maybe they traveled some for work but were also able to work remotely so they had someone/s on the side. ISB I could see some of the men (or Shaun for that matter)  who have entire other families but with only one or two children who they have a genuine connection with because they're not inundated with ten at once. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Yup. When I was at my most fundy I attended a church where a lot of the fathers with large families did a lot of traveling for work. Looking back I wonder.  I'm sure some of them had jobs where they traveled that much and seemed like they were probably as quiverfull as their wife. But there were definitely a few who, looking back, I could see living a double life. Yes, maybe they traveled some for work but were also able to work remotely so they had someone/s on the side. ISB I could see some of the men (or Shaun for that matter)  who have entire other families but with only one or two children who they have a genuine connection with because they're not inundated with ten at once. 

Even my very helpful husband and father of only 2 kids admitted that he sometimes took the long way home from work when the kids were little. 

[0 kids n not countin]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That’s right. Braggie’s bday is like 9 days after that in October I think. She always gets to take a trip for her birthday. The 4 twins get a fucking donut with a candle. 

Yup, WTF...😑

[FundianaJones]

Living with Braggie just in and of itself has to be EXHAUSTING. All the constant manipulation, martyr attitude, attention-seeking, need for validation, raging or barely-restrained verbal attacks when she doesn't get her own way, endless buying and selling... I'm not surprised Shaun spends as much time as he can away from her and from 10 kids he doesn't see as his responsibility.

And I think Ezra has actually caught on, and that's why he's now apprenticing with Shaun. Once Braggie put a stop to brick-and-mortar college (even a local college would have him out of the house for several hours a day), Ezra has looked for the next best option: follow Shaun's example in order to get out from under Braggie's constant drama and the endless child-raising that has become his lot, second son's (can't remember his name) and Della's. He's taken or taking a programming course, so the next thing will be to spend huge chunks of time with Shaun in Shaun's "office" learning stuff, and of course accompanying him in all his travelling. I'll bet he's looking forward to that.

I also think second son is aware of all this, and also aware that he's got a much worse chance of escaping from being Braggie's servant. After all, how many apprentices can Shaun's business sustain? This one's on his own, and, based on stuff Braggie has said on occasion about his attitude, and based on how absolutely over it he looks in every Sunday picture (when he appears; he's missed quite a few), I think he's well aware of how much more difficult he'll have it.

 

 

 

 

 

[theotherelise]

I see Ezra's actions quite differently. I think he is 100% dutiful child and following along with exactly what his parents want. I see zero evidence of him rebelling or even noticing that he is limited. I doubt he even looked at going to college. Until he truly wants something that his parents won't allow or gets more time out of his bubble, he looks ready to follow exactly what Abbie plans for him.

For Simon, we see him less with the little kids than Ezra. Abbie sometimes talks about his cooking, but it's been ages since they did a dance video and she doesn't feature Simon very often. He's only 15, right? so he still has a little bit to go before we will find out what's next for him. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

4 hours ago, FundianaJones said:

Once Braggie put a stop to brick-and-mortar college (even a local college would have him out of the house for several hours a day),

Did she actually post she forbid Ezra to go to college?  I don't recall seeing this.

My hope is that Ezra will go on his own (run Ezra run), because he realizes he needs a degree to be taken seriously as an IT professional.

My concern for him is that if it's merely apprenticeship/ working with Shaun that Ezra goes from BroDad to Breadwinner#2. Still stuck at home, still carrying the parenting load, but now it's supporting the family.

There is absolutely no way Braggie would let him keep any of the money he earns. Not when there's Anthro on sale.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think Braggie refuses to pay for college, does not encourage college which in turn lets the children know exactly what’s expected of them. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

My hope is that Ezra will go on his own (run Ezra run), because he realizes he needs a degree to be taken seriously as an IT professional.

Yes, the days of a well-paying, lifetime career in IT without a college degree or at least some post-secondary schooling are pretty much gone. Really hope that Ezra, and the other kids as they reach 18, can follow their dreams.

This will never happen in TX but boy would I love to see a state law (like IL's) passed that regulated parent influencers. If they did, then Braggie's kids might have a leaving-home fund for college or whatever.

[FundianaJones]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Did she actually post she forbid Ezra to go to college?  I don't recall seeing this.

She has answered readers' questions about this before with variations of "If any of the children want to go to college, there will be hoops to jump through before we will even consider paying for it". And now there are a couple or three more kids, so it's even less likely that they will consider it for any of them. Even community college has associated costs. I think the children are well aware that college is simply not on the horizon for them.

 

1 hour ago, theotherelise said:

I think he is 100% dutiful child and following along with exactly what his parents want. I see zero evidence of him rebelling or even noticing that he is limited. I doubt he even looked at going to college. Until he truly wants something that his parents won't allow or gets more time out of his bubble, he looks ready to follow exactly what Abbie plans for him.

Thanks for this perspective. I don't see him as rebelling either, really. I just think his apprenticeship with Shaun is his way of slowly inching towards some freedom (from his mother, but especially from having to parent five younger brothers) while keeping Braggie appeased. As to looking at going to college, I'm sure he has seen friends from his co-op starting down this road. They have had that opportunity. I can't believe he wouldn't at some point, however fleetingly, think "And why not me?"

[TrueRebel1]

I think Abbie's kids are less likely to rebel than children raised in more extreme fundy-ism. Kids like Ezra have had a fairly privileged and posh upbringing: adequate food, a nice home, lavish vacations, presumably adequate education, and social exposure through co-op groups. Yes, he's had to play brother-dad, but he probably knows his mom receives hundreds of compliments about him, and having that fundie "royalty" status of sorts has to stoke the ego. His parents aren't SO overboard weird that he couldn't veer away from some of their beliefs and still be accepted (unlike the Rods, for example, where being with a pants-wearing girlfriend gets you rebuked or shunned). He might end up going to college, but from his perspective, why should he? He has an internship handed to him, and likely job offers galore with his mom's connections. This is why, long-term, I think Abbie's version of raising a fundie family is more dangerous than the Rods or Collins. Rod and Collins kids *have* to majorly rebel to have any kind of normal adult life. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, TrueRebel1 said:

I think Abbie's kids are less likely to rebel than children raised in more extreme fundy-ism. Kids like Ezra have had a fairly privileged and posh upbringing: adequate food, a nice home, lavish vacations, presumably adequate education, and social exposure through co-op groups. Yes, he's had to play brother-dad, but he probably knows his mom receives hundreds of compliments about him, and having that fundie "royalty" status of sorts has to stoke the ego. His parents aren't SO overboard weird that he couldn't veer away from some of their beliefs and still be accepted (unlike the Rods, for example, where being with a pants-wearing girlfriend gets you rebuked or shunned). He might end up going to college, but from his perspective, why should he? He has an internship handed to him, and likely job offers galore with his mom's connections. This is why, long-term, I think Abbie's version of raising a fundie family is more dangerous than the Rods or Collins. Rod and Collins kids *have* to majorly rebel to have any kind of normal adult life. 

But I could see them being bitter if they felt they didn’t have a chance to go to college. Because Braggie used to idolize Jenny Flanders. She’s a homeschooling mom whose kids all go to college. And some have very high levels of education. If Ezra is around those types of kids, I could understand him becoming a bit jealous that they get to go to college and he doesn’t. 

[Coconut Flan]

Carry on here: