Joe and Kendra 14: Who's Addison? They're all Becoming a Giant Blur to Me.

[kmachete14]

My grandmother (who was one of 11) had 4 kids in 5 years and my grandma had 5 kids in 9 years. Both were married at age 22 in the 1960s & super Catholic. Both after their last kid were told about this great procedure they could do right after delivery that would make sure they wouldn’t have another kid! Both opted for it and lived out the rest of hypocritical Catholic lives without 18 kids (which the fertility genes in my family would easily have allowed). 
 

My mom had 4 kids in 7 years, no birth control. My dad was in the process of planning his vasectomy due to her health issues (sexist doctor wouldn’t do the vasectomy in case they got divorced and he wanted more kids later wtf) when she got pregnant with the 5th. That final high risk pregnancy convinced his doctor to do the damn vasectomy. 

[PurpleCats]

21 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I still hope (naively maybe) that some of the 2nd generation quiverfull families start with having a couple of kids close together but realize after four or five at the most that they need to slow down in order to have a healthy family life, a healthy mother, time to raise the kids they are and enough money to put food on the table. 

I hope they get it after three.  Once the kids outnumber the parents, they’re going to need to slow down or they’re going to be forced to make drastic lifestyle changes.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

31 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

If anyone really tried in my family, we could probably give Michelle Duggar and Kelly Bates a run for their money. 

That's true for me I think.  I got pregnant within a month every time I was unprotected.  

Even when I lost a baby at almost 20 weeks I was pregnant again within weeks (as I didn't think I could get pg so fast) and so my youngest is like my 15th month baby as it felt continuous.

32 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

BTW, I recently learned that there is a bit of a family secret of my grandmother having her own kind of laundry room meltdown after five or so. It's why they hired a housekeeper despite not having a ton of extra money. 

My grams had 7 kids all super close together and she was honest about how stressful that was during the great depression without much money.  She said she had to find ways of dealing with the stress without yelling at the kids,  so when she was on the edge she would refuse to answer to any variation of mom and the kids had to call her "Pete."

She told the story of how shocked one of the neighbor ladies was when she came over and my mom answered the door.  When she was asked to get grams my mom, all of her tiny 4 year old self, yelled "Hey, Pete!  Someone's here!"

While they were talking my mom's older brother came in  and asked, "What's for lunch, Pete?"

There was much pearl clutching apparently over the scandalous lack  of manners but the truth is they were well mannered....my Grams just needed a way to defuse the stress and she said it always made her laugh.  

As a kid I didn't get why not calling her mom would matter because she still had to take care of everyone, but as an adult I think it's one of the healthiest approaches to the stress of child rearing I've ever heard.  

[DalmatianCat]

It will be interesting to see if Kendra can overtake Jessa in the next year and a half and how long it will be before she overtakes Anna. Anna always seemed really proud of having the only Duggar grandchildren for several years, then having the only girls, and currently having the most kiddos.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@nausicaa my Granny was 19 and my Granda was 22 when they married and they lived in a 2 up and 2 down in a really poor area, the Shankill Road, Belfast. Everyone around them had the same large families, so it was the norm. In fact that house is the one Mother and me stayed in back in 1983 when Mother left father, we were there a couple of months. It had a toilet across the yard, the bathroom was a tin bath in front of the coal fire, and the damp was running down the walls. Anyhoo just to say she raised 11 kids in that house and never a bad word crossed her lips

[BernRul]

16 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

In the 2nd generation, I only see Jill and Derick so far who seem to have slowed down the pace. I suspect that in their case, the wake-up call came with Jill's c-sections and Sam's time in the NICU. Probably that is made them realize that it was not a good idea for Jill's health and the future babies' health to push the quiver too far. Also I suspect that Derick wasn't that steeped down in the Quiverfull kool-aid, considering he comes from a family of two. So even if J and D eventually decide to try for more kids in the future, I don't see them having a very large quiver in the end. Jill seems to have realized that it is healthy and good to enjoy time with her little guys.

THAT BEING SAID, I doubt Jill has enough influence on her siblings' family planning, especially not on Joe and Kendra. Probably someone closer to Kendra like her Mom would indeed be a better person to help her realize the... benefits of NFP. ?

 

I could see Jill having one or two more, then stopping. I wouldn't even be surprised if they stopped now, but I feel like they might want to try for a girl.

I don't think the Vuolos will have a big family. Jinger doesn't seem thrilled with the thought of a big family, and Jeremy's 1 of 3. I could see them stopping after 3-5, well spaced. I'm also convinced they were using some way of preventing their first year of marriage. I know some people think we can't make that assumption, but I don't believe it for a second.

Jessa and Ben I don't know. Jessa gets attention from having kids, which she loves, but she's also in a small house and is totally dependent on her family's brand for money.  I can see them going either way, but I think they'll slow down if they start getting overwhelmed. 

Joy and Austin could have a big family, but if Joy has more difficulties, especially if this next one is another C-section, they might have to slow down.

 

[JesSky03]

21 hours ago, llg1234 said:

Please don't use the term gyp/gypped.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/12/30/242429836/why-being-gypped-hurts-the-roma-more-than-it-hurts-you

Thanks for the info. I apologize if I offended anyone- I actually have some gypsy blood in my family line so just honest ignorance of the connotations. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by JesSky03
better wording.

[Sullie06]

23 hours ago, Triplet3 said:

Yes, entirely natural. My parents were told that the chance of that happening was one in 10,000! There was no history of multiple births on either side of the family, either, other than I think my granddad had a sibling with a stillborn/miscarried twin. I read about the Derricos a month or so ago and while it seems pretty gobsmacking that they can have SO many multiples, it's not impossible that they could all be natural. Maybe the mother has the condition where it's common to release more than one egg during ovulation? By the way do you know whether any of the Derrico multiples are identical (I can't remember)? My sisters are identical and I'm fraternal, though by coincidence I still look so much like them I sometimes have people stop me on the street in my hometown thinking I'm one of them.

One of my good friends was pregnant with natural triplets earlier this year and the doctor told her while extremely rare, especially for her first pregnancy, it's becoming a more common occurance. He said some women are just extremely fertile, some release multiple eggs, some ovulate on both sides each month. There are a number of factors that can contribute. She did end up only carrying one (TW: one was a blighted ovum and one passed early first trimester) but she did carry a healthy baby girl to term. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Anna always seemed really proud of having the only Duggar grandchildren for several years, then having the only girls, and currently having the most kiddos.

Oh, I'd bet money Anna is not happy about the fertility of this new challenger for the title of Michelle 2.0.

[LancetteShing99]

23 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder if any of them cloth diaper? If you’re having a baby a year, that would be the WTG. Diapers and formula alone would take a huge bite out of their budget.

Wasn't there an episode of 19kac about Anna using cloth diapers?

[princessmahina]

18 minutes ago, LancetteShing99 said:

Wasn't there an episode of 19kac about Anna using cloth diapers?

I remember Anna bragging that she used cloth diapers and that it was totally okay that she drove a Hummer because the cloth diapers cancelled it out. Um...

also Jill used them in CA. Recently rewatched some early episodes of CO on Hulu and was impressed that she said she was using a disposable because the cloth weren’t dry yet. Poor planning, perhaps, but she gets props for trying. 

[Zebedee]

7 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

Poor planning, perhaps, but she gets props for trying. 

I feel this sentence sums up Jill.

Poor Jill Of all the fundies here, if I were to have a "pet" it would be her, she just seems to be trying so hard, and usually misses the target. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

40 minutes ago, LancetteShing99 said:

Wasn't there an episode of 19kac about Anna using cloth diapers?

Cloth and paper do about the same environmental harm. The washing detergent, etc. I cannot fault ANYONE for using disposables. Same with sanitary napkins. Yes, you can buy washables, but WHY? Babies do gross stuff! Toss it and move on. Don't become bitter doing the nasty wash. I'm 58 my Mom got up and washed diapers. She cheered for other moms when Pampers came out. LOL

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Thanks for the info. I apologize if I offended anyone- I actually have some gypsy blood in my family line so just honest ignorance of the connotations. 

I never knew that either. 

[Audrey2]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Oh, I'd bet money Anna is not happy about the fertility of this new challenger for the title of Michelle 2.0.

Not only does Anna seem a little less fertile (usually around two years), but babies also involve Josh's input. 

(And to reduce the brain bleach, I remember Josh seeming happier to be a Dad with the first two than with many children.)

[Nikedagain?]

19 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Anyone who’s academically inclined could skip the trade school part and study accounting or business, then handle all the siblings business taxes and such. They could really keep it all in the family and have a big, productive family org, but like most things, they half ass it. 

WHO is this gonna be??

[Angelface]

Josiah, I think, once said that he’d be interested in studying accountancy. Maybe it’s something he might like to pursue in the future. Of course, Derrick is already a qualified accountant but I don’t see JB allowing Derrick access to the Duggar finances!

[baldricks_turnip]

7 hours ago, PurpleCats said:

I hope they get it after three.  Once the kids outnumber the parents, they’re going to need to slow down or they’re going to be forced to make drastic lifestyle changes.

I agree, which is why I am pleased by seeing some of the parenting choices the second gen is making that will be less/not sustainable with many which I am hoping will give them pause for thought before continuing down the Quiverfull path:

*healthy eating/cooking from scratch (Jessa)
*one-on-one attention/ 'dates' (Joy)
*Individual therapies/interventions (Jessa)

I am even pleased by how they like doing things like coffee runs because the more they like to indulge in treats for themselves the more they will see the value of having a bit of disposable cash rather than squeezing every penny to squeeze out yet another human.

 

All things considered, I actually have a lot of hope for Jessa despite her seeming to be the mouthpiece of the second gen and therefore in deep with all things Duggar/Quiverfull. She seems to live a very intentional life (setting goals for toy rotations, hosting friends at least one a month, improving eating habits, minimalism, etc) and I think that sets her apart from JB & M who lived only for their idea of what pleased god.

We haven't seen much of Kendra and Joe's lifestyle, but I have less hope for them.

 

[lizzybee]

Garrett was two in June. He’s almost the exact same age as my son who was also born in June ‘18. If he’s willing he’s potty trainable at this age. Many of the moms in my J’18 fb group have gotten theirs out of diapers. I’m not in any rush and haven’t tried with mine yet, but it’s doable. She’s got time if she wants to try to get him out of diapers before she adds tie breaker. 
 

Adding that it gives me a little pleasure that I’m in my 30’s and my fertility is keeping up with hers. I had a MC after my son born in June or I would have had another baby in September before Kendra had Addison. I was pregnant again by September when the baby would’ve been born and I had my daughter in April. So my aging uterus has done me fine. She’ll undoubtedly outstrip me now in a trice but after years of infertility due to undiagnosed hypothyroidism, it feels good that my baby maker could keep pace with Kendra in her early twenties. 

[Idlewild]

I wonder if they think about the future of all these children. I imagine Joken will homeschool - probably joining  forces with the Duggars or Caldwells. Do they just think the Lord will provide an income? Are all the boys destined for car lot/property maintenance/pastor and the girls housewives with a sideline of Instagram shilling? Unless they improve upon the education they got they’re going to have a houseful of unemployable young people with no TV show to supplement them. 

[SeekingAdventure]

my cousin had fraternal twins in 2018, and then got pg again with twins, identical this time, born in early 2020. They were natural, she said that twins run in her family (on her fathers side) and she was quite excited the first time around. The second time though, she was just freaked out. I highly doubt there will be a third pregnancy, or at least not any time soon. I didn't specifically ask her for that, since I figured it is none of my business

They were both born early (C-Section in March 2018 due to one being significantly smaller and not getting enough nutrition or however you would call it) and April 2020 (on the hight of Corona here, yay! she had to be brought to the Hospital, and they tried to still delay the birth. 

When I visited them, it was around June (I checked, double and triple checked if it was ok for her, i had been staying at home for weeks on time, thanks god for a big garden), and she said that her neighbor had a baby the day before, and her neighbors son was bigger than either of her girls were at that point (2 months old). They are adorable and all 4 of them are healthy though, so that is the most important, for sure!

She has a lot of help though, her Mum comes by a lot to take the older twins to the playground and give her some space and time, and she also said that she's very lucky that they are all rather uncomplicated so far. My cousin is a month older than me, I couldn't imagine having 4 kids under three right now...

 

I'm glad that she is doing fine with the lot of them, and I know that she loves and cherishes them to pieces, and definitely is not thinking: Could I add another one?

 

The Baby-Doll comment though, I thought it was quite funny. My cousin mentionned, that her bigger twins think, that they each got their own baby now, and they love to 'take care of them'. It is more them telling her that the babies are sleeping or just woke up, or watching her changing the diaper and chatting during that.

[SassyPants]

6 hours ago, SeekingAdventure said:

my cousin had fraternal twins in 2018, and then got pg again with twins, identical this time, born in early 2020. They were natural, she said that twins run in her family (on her fathers side) and she was quite excited the first time around. The second time though, she was just freaked out. I highly doubt there will be a third pregnancy, or at least not any time soon. I didn't specifically ask her for that, since I figured it is none of my business

They were both born early (C-Section in March 2018 due to one being significantly smaller and not getting enough nutrition or however you would call it) and April 2020 (on the hight of Corona here, yay! she had to be brought to the Hospital, and they tried to still delay the birth. 

When I visited them, it was around June (I checked, double and triple checked if it was ok for her, i had been staying at home for weeks on time, thanks god for a big garden), and she said that her neighbor had a baby the day before, and her neighbors son was bigger than either of her girls were at that point (2 months old). They are adorable and all 4 of them are healthy though, so that is the most important, for sure!

She has a lot of help though, her Mum comes by a lot to take the older twins to the playground and give her some space and time, and she also said that she's very lucky that they are all rather uncomplicated so far. My cousin is a month older than me, I couldn't imagine having 4 kids under three right now...

 

I'm glad that she is doing fine with the lot of them, and I know that she loves and cherishes them to pieces, and definitely is not thinking: Could I add another one?

 

The Baby-Doll comment though, I thought it was quite funny. My cousin mentionned, that her bigger twins think, that they each got their own baby now, and they love to 'take care of them'. It is more them telling her that the babies are sleeping or just woke up, or watching her changing the diaper and chatting during that.

I had a co-worker/friend who had 2 sets of spontaneous twins. The first set were fraternal and the second identical. There is no family history of multiples. The twins are 6 years apart. She stated that she just wanted to have that “1 baby” experience. She also said that the first 3 years with twins are really, really hard. All her kids, she has boys and girls, are all grown and working professionals. I think the oldest ones even have kids of their own. My friend also worked, the entire time, because “it’s easier to be here.”

Edited August 21, 2020 by SassyPants

[Grace]

17 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Cloth and paper do about the same environmental harm. The washing detergent, etc. I cannot fault ANYONE for using disposables. Same with sanitary napkins. Yes, you can buy washables, but WHY? Babies do gross stuff! Toss it and move on. Don't become bitter doing the nasty wash. I'm 58 my Mom got up and washed diapers. She cheered for other moms when Pampers came out. LOL

The manufacturing process may have about the same energy and waste levels but you're forgetting that disposable diapers take up massive levels of space in landfills (and human waste should not be in landfills anyway) and take a very very long time to break down and cloth does neither.

Cloth now is WAY easier than it was 58 or even 20-30 years ago. I have and do use both but I much prefer cloth for a lot of reasons.

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, Grace said:

The manufacturing process may have about the same energy and waste levels but you're forgetting that disposable diapers take up massive levels of space in landfills (and human waste should not be in landfills anyway) and take a very very long time to break down and cloth does neither.

Cloth now is WAY easier than it was 58 or even 20-30 years ago. I have and do use both but I much prefer cloth for a lot of reasons.

Not to mention more cost effective if you’re leaving family size up to God refusing to use BC, and having a baby a year. 

[Grace]

42 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Not to mention more cost effective if you’re leaving family size up to God refusing to use BC, and having a baby a year. 

Hell, it's more cost effective if you use prefolds and covers with ONE kid. Plus they wash up really easy and dry fast. Flats are even cheaper and dry even faster but I never did get those. When I think about the THOUSANDS of dollars the Duggars would have saved with cloth while spouting their frugality ????