Joe and Kendra 14: Who's Addison? They're all Becoming a Giant Blur to Me.

[ifosterkittens]

2 hours ago, princessmahina said:

If they were smart, some of the boys would have gone to trade school. You can support a family just fine as a plumber, electrician, etc. I personally wouldn’t patronize Duggar plumbing/electricity/automotive, but I’m sure a lot of people would. 

I wonder this all the time about several fundie families. I wish the Rodrigues boys could learn a trade! A couple of the Duggar boys could do plumbing, a couple could do electricity, and they could have a family business where they offer both services. If they did reputable work that might be a nice combo. If they just did one i.e. plumbing think of the territory they could cover with all those boys, and possibly son in laws. They own car lots so having the mechanics/automotive side sounds like a win win. Jim Bob could help with the upfront costs once the boys completed the program to buy the necessary trucks, equipment, etc and worked out a payment plan to repay Jim Bob for the costs of school and start up costs. 

[libgirl2]

48 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

What does Joe do again? Fools around with the used car stuff? Geeze.

C'mon Ms. Pastor Caldwell - HAVE THAT TALK

Also, I think after Joy has her baby, we will hear from Jessa and Anna.

Just a feeling.  

 

Anna for sure. I also get a feeling Lauren is going to try to get in there! 

[artdecades]

I think Lauren and Jessa are next for sure. And a mama Caldwell announcement for good measure. She's still young.

[nausicaa]

I looked at the People photo and just cannot get over how tiny Addison is. 

As for NFP, they could also just pull out if they have to have sex during her fertile periods. Obviously it's not foolproof and we don't recommend it to teenagers for a reason, but it does cut down on the probability of conceiving. Better than nothing at this point.

As for NFP and Fundies, what is their exact view on this? For conservative Catholics it's that sex must "complete" inside the woman, so pulling out is not acceptable but NFP is. But since the Fundie push is for actively having as many kids as possible, it seems NFP would be as sinful as the pull out method. 

[FaithAndReason]

Because I'm a dork, back in January, I wrote out my own little list of Duggers and Bates that I thought would be preggo in 2020. Thanks Kendra and Joe for following my prediction. I'll have to check them off!

Also, I think these two will have the largest quiver of all the Duggarlings. She started young and they clearly have drunk the baby making koolaid, along with, what appears to be, amazing fertility.

[Johannah]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Yes, but if she is due in February, which 1 source states, Kendra conceived in May, at which time Addison was a mere 6 months old. No shaming here, but a I don’t think Kendra breast feeds very long, if at all. 

Do you think fundies realize that exclusive on-demand breastfeeding acts as natural birth control for awhile? Or know the difference between exclusive/on-demand vs formula supplementation, etc? Every time I see one of them giving a baby a bottle, I think they must not know. There is very little they can control in their lives, but prolonged nursing is one way to reduce the quiver size at least a little bit. I just can’t imagine they wouldn’t utilize it if they knew it might make a difference. 

[Vivi_music]

6 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I still hope (naively maybe) that some of the 2nd generation quiverfull families start with having a couple of kids close together but realize after four or five at the most that they need to slow down in order to have a healthy family life, a healthy mother, time to raise the kids they are and enough money to put food on the table. 

In the 2nd generation, I only see Jill and Derick so far who seem to have slowed down the pace. I suspect that in their case, the wake-up call came with Jill's c-sections and Sam's time in the NICU. Probably that is made them realize that it was not a good idea for Jill's health and the future babies' health to push the quiver too far. Also I suspect that Derick wasn't that steeped down in the Quiverfull kool-aid, considering he comes from a family of two. So even if J and D eventually decide to try for more kids in the future, I don't see them having a very large quiver in the end. Jill seems to have realized that it is healthy and good to enjoy time with her little guys.

THAT BEING SAID, I doubt Jill has enough influence on her siblings' family planning, especially not on Joe and Kendra. Probably someone closer to Kendra like her Mom would indeed be a better person to help her realize the... benefits of NFP. ?

 

[dolcez]

4 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm almost 20 years older and still can't imagine it.

I remember watching JoKen's proposal and subsequent wedding when I was her age (so like, last week) and the idea of getting married terrified me! I know myself, I know I'm not ready for marriage. And children? Terrifying, utterly terrifying. 

I know they're raised for this, Pastor Caldwell said so himself, but do they feel ready for it? Does that even matter?

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, ifosterkittens said:

I wonder this all the time about several fundie families. I wish the Rodrigues boys could learn a trade! A couple of the Duggar boys could do plumbing, a couple could do electricity, and they could have a family business where they offer both services. If they did reputable work that might be a nice combo. If they just did one i.e. plumbing think of the territory they could cover with all those boys, and possibly son in laws. They own car lots so having the mechanics/automotive side sounds like a win win. Jim Bob could help with the upfront costs once the boys completed the program to buy the necessary trucks, equipment, etc and worked out a payment plan to repay Jim Bob for the costs of school and start up costs. 

I mean with so many sons and son-in-laws, they could have an entire trades team.  If I add up the sons and son-in-laws that don't seem to have a steady job alternative, that's 11 that could be part of this (I'm including Austin just because it seems to also be his current area of work).  Mechanics, plumbers, electricians, welders, carpenters, etc.  Even with just those trades listen, you could have 2 people specializing in each one and still have both Justin and Jackson to pick other trades.  They could offer bundling discounts if people used multiple of the services which would help them support each other.  Plus it seems the type of education that could be fundy approved.  You learn not as much by classes but from learning from others in the field.

[Giraffe]

26 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

 

THAT BEING SAID, I doubt Jill has enough influence on her siblings' family planning, especially not on Joe and Kendra. Probably someone closer to Kendra like her Mom would indeed be a better person to help her realize the... benefits of NFP. ?

 

Jill's influence may not be seen immediately but I can see them rethinking having kids every year or two once they have 4+. 

[nausicaa]

48 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Do you think fundies realize that exclusive on-demand breastfeeding acts as natural birth control for awhile? Or know the difference between exclusive/on-demand vs formula supplementation, etc?

No. I know several women, including my cousin in her late thirties, who had surprise babies this way, not understanding that partial breastfeeding is not reliable birth control. None of them were Fundie and most were college-educated. I think we downplay how lacking reproductive knowledge is in the general population, even among secular people, let alone among homeschooled conservative Christians. 

[neuroticcat]

I wonder too if  they simply don’t want to space them. I mean, the ideology says more babies is better and it’s possible they’re happy with their lives and not considering alternatives. 

[princessmahina]

2 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

I mean with so many sons and son-in-laws, they could have an entire trades team.  If I add up the sons and son-in-laws that don't seem to have a steady job alternative, that's 11 that could be part of this (I'm including Austin just because it seems to also be his current area of work).  Mechanics, plumbers, electricians, welders, carpenters, etc.  Even with just those trades listen, you could have 2 people specializing in each one and still have both Justin and Jackson to pick other trades.  They could offer bundling discounts if people used multiple of the services which would help them support each other.  Plus it seems the type of education that could be fundy approved.  You learn not as much by classes but from learning from others in the field.

Anyone who’s academically inclined could skip the trade school part and study accounting or business, then handle all the siblings business taxes and such. They could really keep it all in the family and have a big, productive family org, but like most things, they half ass it. 

[indianabones]

2 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

I mean with so many sons and son-in-laws, they could have an entire trades team.  If I add up the sons and son-in-laws that don't seem to have a steady job alternative, that's 11 that could be part of this (I'm including Austin just because it seems to also be his current area of work).  Mechanics, plumbers, electricians, welders, carpenters, etc.  Even with just those trades listen, you could have 2 people specializing in each one and still have both Justin and Jackson to pick other trades.  They could offer bundling discounts if people used multiple of the services which would help them support each other.  Plus it seems the type of education that could be fundy approved.  You learn not as much by classes but from learning from others in the field.

That seems to be what the Bates are doing. Chad Paine owns a construction company and some of the Bates' sons work with him. Kelton and Bobby have their own plumbing business. Evan is in his fourth year of an electrician trade school program. I'm not sure how often they all work on projects together but I bet they've done so at least once.

[baldricks_turnip]

In some ways I fear for Kendra more than I do for someone like Jessa, even though Kendra has had complication-free deliveries and Jessa has not.
I think Jessa is a little more open and honest about the challenges and stresses of parenting small children in a way I can't see Kendra being. I believe Kendra has a very sunny disposition and isn't just all for show but many little ones has to be taxing on anyone and I wonder what will happen when she reaches the point of exhaustion and has no idea how to express those feelings.

[Audrey2]

I look at the Rodrigues boys. They have the Ohio State University agricultural technical institute in their new town. if each of the four were to go there they could major in things like greenhouse engineering technology, greenhouse, nursery specialization, landscape design and associate if applied science in business. That is a whole landscaping company from greenhouse to nursery landscape design team and workers. I know fundies are not known for their work ethic but if they put some effort into this they could have jobs that could sustain themselves and their family and all work together. I know funny to think of... Fundies and effort.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Audrey2

[AmericanRose]

Somewhere, my ancestors are laughing in disbelief at the idea of someone purposely trying to have as many kids as physically possible.

[just_ordinary]

14 hours ago, Meggo said:

I feel like it depends on the spacing. I'm the third (and final) - but my sisters are 5 and 7 years older than I am. So by the time I came along - they were pretty independent (I mean - not like they had jobs or whatever - but didn't have diapers, didn't need bottles or spoon feeding, could mostly entertain themselves and each other, were in school for part of the days etc). 

I think if you have three in short order (and just keep packin' 'em in like it's a race or something) - yikes.

 

Yeah, but honestly, while the physical side of parenting gets smaller you need to put a whole lot more mental parenting work in. School, friends drama, teenager drama, romantic drama, talks about sex/drugs, preparing them to be self sufficient and hoping your parenting helps them to make responsible choices, supporting and helping when they realise they made a mistake....

I don’t think there is an easier spacing or phase. It depends highly on the individuals and dispositionsfähige involved.

9 hours ago, calliopecassandra said:

Do we know if she is still nursing? Addison is 6 months so guessing not exclusively. This is sad. I hope it's just one baby, not multiples. I agree, Christina needs to have the NFP talk with her if she hasn't already. 

Even if. Exclusively breastfeeding on demand is not a good idea of contraception. Especially if you are young and as it seems very fertile. That’s like using a condom with a tiny hole. There is a reason people use additional contraception.

9 hours ago, Triplet3 said:

Yes, entirely natural. My parents were told that the chance of that happening was one in 10,000! There was no history of multiple births on either side of the family, either, other than I think my granddad had a sibling with a stillborn/miscarried twin. I read about the Derricos a month or so ago and while it seems pretty gobsmacking that they can have SO many multiples, it's not impossible that they could all be natural. Maybe the mother has the condition where it's common to release more than one egg during ovulation? By the way do you know whether any of the Derrico multiples are identical (I can't remember)? My sisters are identical and I'm fraternal, though by coincidence I still look so much like them I sometimes have people stop me on the street in my hometown thinking I'm one of them.

Wow. You parents really hit the lottery twice. Having two eggs released with no genetically disposition is a lucky shot but also having identical twins, which is always coincidental, that’s amazing.

 

I don’t worry too much about Kendra‘s physical state at this point. She is young and seems to have smooth pregnancies and hard but uneventful births. There is a reason why fertility in her age range is statistically higher. I often wish we would have started sooner on having children. I am convinced the physical side of it (pregnancy, birth, sleep deprivation) would have been easier. But then, we are so much more relaxed and settled in our relationship and ourselves now- it’s really as they say: there is no ideal time for children.

But if you want to have more than three, I would definitely recommend starting before 30.

Still, think Fundies are crazy to pursue as many children as possible. That’s harming on almost every level you could think of.

[medimus]

Like a previous poster said, the lack of education about fertility in the general population is high. I work in this field and I regularly get questions or things said that astound me from all sorts of people.

NFP or FAM (fertility awareness-based methods) can work well (up to 99 % effective) if used properly and consistently and you do need the buy in from your partner. It also depends what kind you use. Calendar and rhythm methods (not generally recommended) have the highest failure rate; symptothermal has the lowest. And what you do during the fertile times: abstaining gives you lower risk than using condoms or withdrawal.

LAM (lactation amenorrhoea method) is 98% effective if the child is under 6 months, exclusively breastfeeding around the clock (no formula, no water, no solids etc) and the woman's periods have not returned. Expressing and using a dummy are also things that can reduce the effectiveness.

NHS link: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/natural-family-planning/

Poor Addison and poor new baby already being referred to as a doll.

[Italiangirl]

I don't know if it bored me more the surprise part of their statement or the baby doll natural size one. I have the suspect that after baby girl Forsythe is born we will have more news, maybe another pregnancy and at least a courtship 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

My maternal Granny had 10 kids, they were all 1 year and 2 months apart. All were fully breastfed for a year. Her first was in 1923, so not much family planning. Number 10 (my aunt, my mum was No#9) was born feb 1939, and the 11th was born in 1946! Granny managed a 7 year gap due to WW2 and my Granda being away serving. Granny actually thought it was the menopause lol

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[SassyPants]

9 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Anyone who’s academically inclined could skip the trade school part and study accounting or business, then handle all the siblings business taxes and such. They could really keep it all in the family and have a big, productive family org, but like most things, they half ass it. 

True, but this is where the lack of a work ethic and particularly the lack of tenacity really kicks in. Along with being the chosen people, folks like the Duggars apparently think that they are entitled to do very little to either contribute to society or to support and provide for themselves.

[freethemall]

18 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder if any of them cloth diaper? If you’re having a baby a year, that would be the WTG. Diapers and formula alone would take a huge bite out of their budget.

Jill tried for a bit with Israel but I think gave up when they went to CA. I dont think the rest have. I mean, these people are too lazy to wash and reuse dishes, cloth diapers take some work (I used them and I only have 1, they're in a box ready for the future 2nd).

It's so crazy she's just 22. At 22, I just got my BA and had the adventure of my life going to Israel where I worked and partied on a kibbutz, scuba dived in Egypt, explored the world and different  boys, and later started exploring different careers and applied for grad school. I did get married 3 years later and baby 4 years after that so we could have time to enjoy our marriage and become adults with somewhat financial stability. And now I'm closer to the age of her mother, who is a grandma!

[nausicaa]

5 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

My maternal Granny had 10 kids, they were all 1 year and 2 months apart. All were fully breastfed for a year. Her first was in 1923, so not much family planning. Number 10 (my aunt, my mum was No#9) was born feb 1939, and the 11th was born in 1946! Granny managed a 7 year gap due to WW2 and my Granda being away serving. Granny actually thought it was the menopause lol

My paternal grandmother didn't get married until 27 (the Great Depression increased average age of marriage quite a bit) and still managed to have nine kids by age 40 while also breastfeeding. They stopped because the last one at age 40 was really hard on her. Both grandparents were pretty devout Catholics so I don't know what BC methods they used (and God knows I wasn't gonna ask...) but it seemed like she was still quite fertile and they could have gotten to 12 or 13 kids if they'd disregarded her health and comfort. If anyone really tried in my family, we could probably give Michelle Duggar and Kelly Bates a run for their money. 

BTW, I recently learned that there is a bit of a family secret of my grandmother having her own kind of laundry room meltdown after five or so. It's why they hired a housekeeper despite not having a ton of extra money. 

[Sullie06]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:15 AM, OHFL2009 said:

My grandmother was married at 18, and by the time she was 23, she had 4 under 4. My dad and his sister were born in the same calendar year (one in January and one in December), then one 15 months later, and another 19 months after that. I can't even fathom it. 

My husbands Grandmother is the same way. She was married at 18 had 5 kids the following 5 years. They were all born between late October and Early December 1956-1960

On 8/19/2020 at 10:28 AM, IrishCarrie said:

My mother always said that the third child was the dealbreaker one in most relationships. It was fine when there was two adults and two children because you could each grab a kid to do stuff and go places, but once there's a third one in the equation you run out of adults and the little beggars have you!!

My best friend says the same thing. She said going from 1-2 was no big deal but going from 2-3 was super hard and the big factor for not having a 4th which was their original plan. They are 8, 7 and 5 and she said it's still incredibly hard.