John David and Abbie Grace Engaged 2: Planes, petals, and proposals

[Lurky]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

To be strictly correct Jinger isn’t self supporting as her husband provides for her now instead of Daddy.J

And let's face it, Jeremy is supported by his father, who employs him in his church outreach, so he's hardly any better than the Duggars.  I'd put money on Jessa and Ben as the least-worst in terms of self-supporting, living in a gifted house as they are, because Ben seems to do some kind of paid work.  Jinger seems to be good at using her instagram for endorsements, but I don't know if that's getting freebies or actual cash.

ETA "Church outreach" is wrong - what's the way to say it?  Church plant?  Church offshoot?  Church of Vuolo?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

To be strictly correct Jinger isn’t self supporting as her husband provides for her now instead of Daddy.JD is the family pilot who shleps them all around and does what ever JB needs done. he is still on the family dole.He had towing service at one time but don’t know if he does now. Only Austin is completely off Jim Bobs Tit.

I was re thinking JD after I wrote it but didn't have time to comeback to it.  Technically Joy relies on Austin as well, but I'm saying that JinJer and Jostin don't have to come with tail between their legs to daddy boob for cash or a roof over their heads, that makes their lives THEIR lives.  While Austin is still tight with his father & Daddy Forsyth has some control over him still. I Do get the impression that he is making sure his son will know how to take care of his family himself and not rely on handouts from others I'm guessing he doesn't want HIS son beholden to Jim Bob for anything. Add to that, Joy doesn't seem to be afraid of getting her hands dirty (literally)  and digging in where needed to help her little  family out, where as Jill and Jinger wouldn't be able to do what Joy & Jessa have.  Working and not being a door mat for their spouse.  Yes Joy was all "Austin Austin Austin" in the lead up to the wedding, but what we saw after, she didn't seem to be sitting on her hands waiting for Austin to tell her what to do. She & Jessa were the 'get shit done girls' in the house, neither of them were afraid of bossing around anyone,  I never got the impression Austin wanted a mealy mouthed 'Yes sir' kind of woman for a wife. 

[tabitha2]

@allthegoodnamesrgone That’s makes the Like Michelle in the early days when she worked along side JB and she still is the boss of the Duggar gravy train calling the shots.  

[Irish13]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

And let's face it, Jeremy is supported by his father, who employs him in his church outreach, so he's hardly any better than the Duggars.  I'd put money on Jessa and Ben as the least-worst in terms of self-supporting, living in a gifted house as they are, because Ben seems to do some kind of paid work.  Jinger seems to be good at using her instagram for endorsements, but I don't know if that's getting freebies or actual cash.

ETA "Church outreach" is wrong - what's the way to say it?  Church plant?  Church offshoot?  Church of Vuolo?

I think the correct word would be 'franchise'.

[Coconut Flan]

The church plant Jeremy pastors isn't under his father.  It's from a church in San Antonio - Grace Community.  

[aurora_boo]

I only have two aunts, both named Mary.  If we need to talk about them it's 'nice Mary' or 'nasty Mary'. Sadly, it needs no further clarification.

My mum is sad that 'nasty mary' is her sister - no question. 

[pandora]

4 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

To be strictly correct Jinger isn’t self supporting as her husband provides for her now instead of Daddy.JD is the family pilot who shleps them all around and does what ever JB needs done. he is still on the family dole.He had towing service at one time but don’t know if he does now. Only Austin is completely off Jim Bobs Tit.

Hmm, this may be just me, but it sounds weird to me to think of a married person whose spouse brings in the income as not self-supporting, when they've merged their financial selves legally. While we don't know tons about what Jinger was doing in Laredo for the first year of her marriage, I think there have been a few clues that even if the paychecks are Jeremy's they're both doing work for the church- it sounded like when she and Jeremy were reviewing that book on women settling on Instagram she was counseling some young women, and before her marriage there was mention of a pro-life counseling service their church ran (ugh) when she would be volunteering. Aren't there jokes that "pastor's wife" should be a paid position? Often, work women do that isn't paid enables a family/business to be successful. If one spouse is working outside the home and another is a stay at home parent, I would think of their partnership as self-supporting, not as one person self-supported and the other not. But I'm neither married nor reliant on a partner- so  I can't really speak to how someone in that situation would feel. 

[Tiny Bubbles]

Re names, my cousin Ted (not his real name) had the same name as his father, my uncle Ted. 

Everyone referred to my cousin as "Little Ted" and to my uncle as "Big Ted".  

Naturally my cousin grew up to be a really large man in height and breadth, while my uncle remained the wiry small man he always was. 

But we were so used to their nicknames that we couldn't seem to stop using them, causing some mystified looks in public, lol. 

[haroldtheyrefundies]

Re: family members with the same name. When one of my older cousins got married he married a girl that has the same name as my sister, so now whenever we talk about them I normally just say my sister's name without her last name and my cousin with her last name. 

Example: (talking about my sister)  "(insert sister's name here) posted a picture of her dog on Instagram today"

                  (talking about my cousin) "(insert cousin's full name) posted that they're back home now" 

It's funny actually because as a trans person I actually picked my grandfather's name as my first name but will be going by a nickname, and I'm going to let family and close friends use a shorter nickname that was my late uncle's name because I know it might be easier for them to use my preferred name that way instead if it was just a random name I picked. I think most people on my mom's side all have at least one family name in their name. 

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

1 hour ago, pandora said:

Often, work women do that isn't paid enables a family/business to be successful. If one spouse is working outside the home and another is a stay at home parent, I would think of their partnership as self-supporting, not as one person self-supported and the other not. But I'm neither married nor reliant on a partner- so  I can't really speak to how someone in that situation would feel. 

Thank you for this. I’m sure the other posters meant no harm, but my husband and I absolutely both recognize that we support our family equally in completely different ways. His earning potential is many times greater than mine, so his job is to bring home the paycheck, mine is to do literally everything else—-I shop, cook, clean, do laundry, take care of the children, manage the finances, etc. The money he brings home is just as much mine as his, though. 

I do understand the difference in our situation as compared to a Duggar though, where it’s prescribed and assumed that this is the only way to run a family and there really isn’t equality between husband and wife. We have happily chosen this life, we respect each other, and it works for us! 

My MIL on the other hand clearly thinks I’m lazy and living off her darling son’s hard work. But that’s a post for another day. 

[Nikedagain?]

9 hours ago, Jana814 said:

That's so funny and confusing. My mother has a cousin who married 3 times. The first wife and the second wife are named Susan. 

 

Ahhh! Like Tammy 1 and Tammy 2!

[Ivycoveredtower]

7 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I was re thinking JD after I wrote it but didn't have time to comeback to it.  Technically Joy relies on Austin as well, but I'm saying that JinJer and Jostin don't have to come with tail between their legs to daddy boob for cash or a roof over their heads, that makes their lives THEIR lives.  While Austin is still tight with his father & Daddy Forsyth has some control over him still. I Do get the impression that he is making sure his son will know how to take care of his family himself and not rely on handouts from others I'm guessing he doesn't want HIS son beholden to Jim Bob for anything. Add to that, Joy doesn't seem to be afraid of getting her hands dirty (literally)  and digging in where needed to help her little  family out, where as Jill and Jinger wouldn't be able to do what Joy & Jessa have.  Working and not being a door mat for their spouse.  Yes Joy was all "Austin Austin Austin" in the lead up to the wedding, but what we saw after, she didn't seem to be sitting on her hands waiting for Austin to tell her what to do. She & Jessa were the 'get shit done girls' in the house, neither of them were afraid of bossing around anyone,  I never got the impression Austin wanted a mealy mouthed 'Yes sir' kind of woman for a wife. 

Joy would never go to daddy because if she did she wouldn't have anything to hold her her sisters heads. remember how snarky and pleased with herself that she would be the first sister with a house of her own. 

[Lurky]

@Coconut Flan Thank you!  I honestly thought Jeremy was working for daddy's church - did he start out that way and then get a job with a different one?  I could have sworn he was on videos for his father's church, but I admit I don't pay that much attention to Jeremy.

[eveandadam]

this is just random but Abbie is really pretty, not conventionally (barbie-doll) pretty (like e.g. Jessa), but beautiful and I think it's her smile. This is the first Duggar courtship that I really dig and think those two are truely adults who know what they are doing!

You go JD for waiting a couple of years longer and get a WOMAN with a career that is NOT a teenager!

 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

2 hours ago, eveandadam said:

this is just random but Abbie is really pretty, not conventionally (barbie-doll) pretty (like e.g. Jessa), but beautiful and I think it's her smile. This is the first Duggar courtship that I really dig and think those two are truely adults who know what they are doing!

You go JD for waiting a couple of years longer and get a WOMAN with a career that is NOT a teenager!

 

I agree they are more adult which is great, but I'm guessing they'll hold to the party line. She might continue nursing till the first baby comes, but I don't expect a whole lot more than that. I hope I'm proved wrong!

[tabitha2]

Yes. Let’s be realistic here. She follows the party line and is from the same circles as him. 

[SamiKatz]

I'm not quibbling about Jeremy, but a lot of people work with their parents, or in their parent's businesses.  It doesn't mean they're being supported by that parent.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I will say that even if you don’t work for your parents, how much money your parents have will directly impact the amount of money you will have as an adult. That’s a fact. It’s not anything to debate. Stats will prove it. And it’s not because you work for daddy. It’s often because your parents could afford to for you to go to a good school. They could afford extra curricular activities. The could afford a tutor for school or the SATs. They can afford to pay for college. They can afford to buy you a decent car as a teen so you can drive as a young adult just starting out on your own. They can afford to give you their old smart phone when they upgrade their own. They can afford to give you their old but still good furniture for your first apartment. They can lend you money when you get in a tough financial spot without charging interest. Your parents might have decent connections to get you your first real job. 

So although I will say it’s different if your life is constantly funded by your father even as an adult out of college, many people benefit financially from their parents as adults without people looking down on them. 

[fundiesfordays]

I have a hard time snarking the kidults for working in the family business. That is something that has always happened across time and cultures. Children are exposed to what their parents do and often follow in their footsteps in many ways, not just employment. What the Duggars are doing isn't new.

The problem many of us probably have with it is how dysfunctional the family seems. It's easy to say JB is holding everyone captive with jobs and TLC money, and he very well may be, but we don't know the family dynamics. It's also just as possible that they don't want to leave.  The older children could be staying around home because they like their lifestyle. I am quite certain they could get outside jobs if they so desired. Many of them have marketable skills. If they decided to break free, people would help them. They are well-known with a sad story to tell and people would help them - think of the Turpin kids. They could crawl out from under JB if they wanted, but that comes at a price. They would lose control of their schedules, coworkers, and work environment. The pay would be lower since they don't have the education to back up their skills.

[habert]

Am I missing something? Jessa works? 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

10 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

Joy would never go to daddy because if she did she wouldn't have anything to hold her her sisters heads. remember how snarky and pleased with herself that she would be the first sister with a house of her own. 

You know I don't get this I'm better than you vibe from Joy & Austin. Most of the folks I know like this don't give two shits what other people think, only that they are hardworking & self sufficient and not a "burden" to anyone ESPECIALLY the big bad gubment.  Jill is a one upper, Jess is as well, Jeremy is a one upper, and I think Jinger is to the degree that she wants Jeremy happy, so if it makes him happy to better than so and so then she will be better than so and so.  Country boys & girls like Joy and Austin have shit to do, and worrying about what Bobby & Sue across the street have that they don't, it isn't something they spend time on. Mostly because they are too busy working on other things.

Just now, habert said:

Am I missing something? Jessa works? 

In a way, she' keeps her brand up, to keep the TLC money coming in, Jill and Josjly have been cut off. Joe & Kendra are as exciting as dry white toast, and don't have social media. Jeremy & Jinger have their brand and work that but for their own personal gain not the family like Jessa is trying to do.  Joy and Austin are toast with a bit of butter or jam on it, they really aren't interested in self promotion, or probably capable of self promoting, so someone has to do it, and that someone is Jessa.

[habert]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

n a way, she' keeps her brand up, to keep the TLC money coming in, Jill and Josjly have been cut off. Joe & Kendra are as exciting as dry white toast, and don't have social media. Jeremy & Jinger have their brand and work that but for their own personal gain not the family like Jessa is trying to do.  Joy and Austin are toast with a bit of butter or jam on it, they really aren't interested in self promotion, or probably capable of self promoting, so someone has to do it, and that someone is Jessa.

I suppose I understand that to an extent. But I follow her on insta and she doesn’t do any ads like Alyssa Webster. She and Ben still seem under JBs “payroll”. They’re still living in the house basically given to them. I don’t even know what Ben does. Some time ago I thought he was doing remote classes at Moody but I don’t know if that’s still happening. 

[libgirl2]

13 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

 

Ahhh! Like Tammy 1 and Tammy 2!

Growing up I had a best friend named Tammy. She was a couple of years younger than me. Her boyfriend and future husband was in my grade. We all hung out as good friends. Things being the way they are we lost touch after high school. I met up with her nearly 10 years later and we went out for lunch with our kids. Last I heard of her for 10 more years. 

Came time for my 20 year HS reunion. I saw her husband was going. I was thrilled. This was in the day before FB and all this other social media. I was so excited to see her at the reunion. I stood there waiting. Her husband came in with a much older woman. Turns out it was his second wife also named Tammy. She seemed like a nice person but she looked like she should be his mom. They are still married so I guess it worked out for the best. My Tammy also remarried. Her husband reminds me of her dad quite a bit. Nice guy. We now keep in touch via FB. 

[pandora]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I will say that even if you don’t work for your parents, how much money your parents have will directly impact the amount of money you will have as an adult. That’s a fact. It’s not anything to debate. Stats will prove it. And it’s not because you work for daddy. It’s often because your parents could afford to for you to go to a good school. They could afford extra curricular activities. The could afford a tutor for school or the SATs. They can afford to pay for college. They can afford to buy you a decent car as a teen so you can drive as a young adult just starting out on your own. They can afford to give you their old smart phone when they upgrade their own. They can afford to give you their old but still good furniture for your first apartment. They can lend you money when you get in a tough financial spot without charging interest. Your parents might have decent connections to get you your first real job. 

And riffing off of this- Even without college, Austin/Joy's financial independence is related to Austin's dad who taught him how to flip houses/use a bulldozer, and had the tools Austin would need to do so. The training he got as the only son at home (I'm aware he has older half sibs) of a technically skilled dad + his dad's help and advice on the flips is part of how he is where he is today. Meanwhile Ben came into the Duggar family as a teenager from a family that didn't train him for a career- it seems smart to me that Jessa and Ben are still utilizing the resources available to them. I dont think it's bad to work for a family business or accept help when it's volunteered- making the most of those opportunities is often how people get ahead. I think part of this is that for a lot of people here it's strange to think of married people getting help from their parents, but in this case the married people we're talking about are college aged (a time when a lot of people are accepting financial help from family). I think a better metric would be looking to see who's been preparing for their family's financial future since marriage-for example, I would count Joe and Kendra, living economically in family property and working for their family business as moving in that direction, while college educated Derick pissing away money on missioncations is not. Oh, and regardless of moral implications I would count having a paid account on a dating site for you to cheat on your wife when you work for a "traditional family values" org a stupid financial decision. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

2 hours ago, fundiesfordays said:

I am quite certain they could get outside jobs if they so desired. Many of them have marketable skills.

I think John has done this--probably not only with clearing the land to get his house. He certainly has skills. Was it Jana who cut all the tile for the Bates' house (well a room of it)? That pays about $20--$25 an hour where I live!  In spite of what we may think of some of their skills, they can get cash work (old school for "gig economy") doing trades in non-union jobs, playing music for funerals or weddings or parties (Ok, maybe it's not my taste but ...), detailing cars, basic landscaping jobs, house painting and taking Senior pictures for "worldly" high school seniors!  

My kids friends can do just about zip. They have to get jobs.  When they need money they have to go fill out applications. The Duggar kids could post on FB or hiring boards and get cash work. That's a good thing. It's one of the FEW things I think the Duggars did well--make sure their kids have multiple ways to earn a living--maybe not earning what an investment banker would earn, but still a decent life in their part of the country.