Jinger 32: Light into the Darkness According to Jeremy

[Lurky]

12 hours ago, cascarones said:

Quite true, I'm not familiar with the ATI/IBLP homeschooling system, only the Classical Conversations version of Christian education. I was just thinking we have quite a few home school families on here who take education very seriously and recalled the quotes that the Duggars said about their children being able to do whatever they wanted to. Now, from the outside looking in that doesn't seem to be true. 

I would say the biggest difference between a FJ member's homeschooling and the Duggars is that the FJ member would be teaching their own kids, and maybe involving them in classes from local co-ops where there are people with specific skills etc. 

In Duggarland, the numbers make it pretty difficult to give all the kids one-to-one teaching.  At the most, they would have had 13 kids between the ages for 5 and 18 having "school", and even if both JB & M split the work, that's 7 kids [ETA at wildly different levels]  for 1 to teach every day.  So the solution is the Gothard-approved booklets and then the computer programmes, with strong links to God in everything, no evolution etc.  It's the opposite of one of the best things about homeschooling, where a kid's curriculum can be tailored to her interest, whether that's extra of some topic, or bringing that topic into subjects she's less enthusiastic about. 

And of course, being the Duggars, the sister-mom system.   One of Jessa's jurisdictions was supervising her younger siblings' educations, which means less time for her own.  It's not that Jessa had a heart for teaching and really enjoyed explaining things to the littles, her job was to make sure they did X pages a day. 

(This is why I always use SOTDRT to describe what 'our' Fundies do, rather than "home-schooling", because it has nothing in common with good home-based education.   I guess if I'm complimenting the Duggars, they at least have made sure some of their kids grew up with a lot of friends, though it seems to be the friends coming to the Duggars rather than letting them hang out at friends' house, but that's about it)

[xlurker]

9 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

My mom had a BFA

That is partly why I let life get in the way--I didn't want the graphic arts,  and never considered myself a "fine artist". Not exactly a useless degree, but very very narrow.  It is usefull to go forward with to grad school, to teach at upper levels or with a double major for art therepy and the like.  30 years later I still create, much because it keeps me sane and gives me an outlet. I do, an occattion, regret not finishing 

[nausicaa]

16 hours ago, cascarones said:

On the education front: I think it's a bit unfair we're all assuming they'd need remedial classes, quite a lot depends on the teacher. 

Jinger and Jill's teacher was Michelle "Perpendicular" Duggar... 

I'd bet $1,000 right now that neither of those women can do geometry or FOIL anything for shit. I'd be curious as to whether they even know what variables are. I bet math ended with a consumer math type course in ninth grade.

As for reading and writing, keep in mind they were allowed to read 1) The Bible and 2) Before You Meet Prince Charming. No Shakespeare, Dickens, Austen, or Hemingway. They'd be lost in literary analysis and understand zero literary references that others would make in class. Check out Jill's writing on her social media if you want an idea of her composition skills. She would most definitely need remedial classes. 

I'm not trying to crap all over J and J here. This is directed right at their parents and their shitty, negligent homeschooling. The Duggars hide behind the accomplishments of hard working homeschooling parents and expect to ride their coattails.

[singsingsing]

36 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Jinger and Jill's teacher was Michelle "Perpendicular" Duggar... 

I'd bet $1,000 right now that neither of those women can do geometry or FOIL anything for shit. I'd be curious as to whether they even know what variables are. I bet math ended with a consumer math type course in ninth grade.

As for reading and writing, keep in mind they were allowed to read 1) The Bible and 2) Before You Meet Prince Charming. No Shakespeare, Dickens, Austen, or Hemingway. They'd be lost in literary analysis and understand zero literary references that others would make in class. Check out Jill's writing on her social media if you want an idea of her composition skills. She would most definitely need remedial classes. 

I'm not trying to crap all over J and J here. This is directed right at their parents and their shitty, negligent homeschooling. The Duggars hide behind the accomplishments of hard working homeschooling parents and expect to ride their coattails.

They would definitely need remedial classes, no question about it. Perhaps some of them have areas in which they naturally excel and they'd be able to scrape by, maybe even do well, in college level courses, but they would almost certainly need to do some serious catching up in at least some areas.

I say this as someone who can't do geometry, has no idea what FOIL is, and does not know what variables are. There is absolutely no way that I could ever succeed in a university level math, science, nursing, statistics, or accounting class. In the interest of full disclosure, I do have a pretty severe math-related learning disability, but all that means is that remedial classes probably wouldn't help me much. Assuming they don't have any kind of learning disabilities, they might, if they really applied themselves, be able to make up for their deficits with remedial classes. But then again, I had the benefit of a decade and a half of actual education. They have Wisdom Booklets and a lot of talking points about why abortion is murder and evolution is a lie.

I think Jill's writing in and of itself is fine, actually. It's basically coherent and her spelling and grammar are decent enough. She can make herself understood in a casual context. Plenty of people with her level of writing ability will do just fine in college or university. What she really needs to worry about are her lack of critical thinking skills, lack of ability to analyse and interpret a text, form an argument, examine her own biases, etc. It's pretty easy to learn how to structure an essay. It's a lot harder to unlearn years of indoctrination into mindlessness. 

There are people at about the Duggars' skill level who get through university. I've seen it happen countless times. It's not necessarily easy, but a lot depends on your choice of program, your work ethic, and the goals you set for yourself. I think their major stumbling block is their attitude, their arrogance and their closed-mindedness. Intellectually they might be capable of pushing themselves, overcoming their shaky educational foundation, and doing pretty well. But how would they deal with facts that conflict with their own beliefs? With professors and other students who offend them? Arguing for a position without being able to fall back on 'the Bible says'?

[LegHumperBibleThumper]

On 11/4/2017 at 9:15 PM, BecausePrayer said:

I'm gonna start this off by sayin that I've never read the twilight books, so my opinions aren't necessaril as informed. I will however defend twilight at least some forever. Those books got so many people interested in reading, and many of them kept on after that.

I'm not saying it's okay that the books glorify an abusive relationship (though so much of media does without ever being called out, so I don't know why Twilight is what everyone chooses to hate) and the imprinting thing is weird, but those books did a lot of good in getting people to read a ton who otherwise wouldn't have.

This was totally me. Before Twilight, the only books I ever read or wanted to read were Harry Potter. Twilight got me into reading. I was in my early 20's when the first book came out and I still read a lot. I am grateful to Stephanie Meyer for just that reason. 

 

Team Edward 

[ThunderRolls]

20 hours ago, immodest_countenance said:

SNIP

Call me cynical, but I think Jeremy is very concerned about appearances. Many of his friends, family, and associates are college educated with professional careers. Jeremy really seems like he wants to come across as this super well-read, intellectual #deep pastor. Besides if you were Jeremy would you want to be the guy who married some young uneducated, meek tlc reality tv star from arkansas, or the guy who "saved" and "freed" Jinger by giving her a new life and pushing her to get an education. But again, me just speculating and being cynical. 

I don't think you're being cynical. I think it's odd that Jeremy isn't doing some sort of professional course to obtain a theology or masters of divinity. Instead, we seem him and Jinger posting on Instagram about Jeremy's latest shipment of Christian theology texts which he presumably reads and interprets himself.  A wiser and more humble individual than Jeremy would most likely realize they'd be better served with some direction and education from those more learned and experienced than he. I guess he's satisfied with his social media humblebrag posts. 

[cascarones]

@Lurky Thanks for the longer explanation!  I'm embarrassed I had to look up what FOIL, especially given I TAed graduate level math courses, but looking back now I don't think mnemonics were ever used in maths when I was taught. I was helping my godson with his homework last time I babysat and it's so different now I wasn't much help.

[louisa05]

I don't think you're being cynical. I think it's odd that Jeremy isn't doing some sort of professional course to obtain a theology or masters of divinity. Instead, we seem him and Jinger posting on Instagram about Jeremy's latest shipment of Christian theology texts which he presumably reads and interprets himself.  A wiser and more humble individual than Jeremy would most likely realize they'd be better served with some direction and education from those more learned and experienced than he. I guess he's satisfied with his social media humblebrag posts. 

It’s typical for those types of churches. One mega church in my area runs an internship/slave labor one year program for kids just out of high school that “qualifies” them to be pastors.

[ThunderRolls]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

It’s typical for those types of churches. One mega church in my area runs an internship/slave labor one year program for kids just out of high school that “qualifies” them to be pastors.

 

I don't doubt that and have encountered these types of churches myself. Has Jeremy even had this, though? I know he mentioned he lived with a minister's family after his soccer career ended, but I don't know of any "formal" type of education or study in this area that he has received. 

For someone as serious about Christian theology as Jeremy professes to be, I don't see any evidence of him doing serious training and study other than some pictures of him reading books. 

[justoneoftwo]

18 hours ago, Lurky said:

But have you taken university-level education in either?  I ask that genuinely, because I think a lot of people think art is "easy" because there's no right or wrong, but they don't necessarily understand what it is like to have to justify/explain one's work at high levels.

I have taken both, more science than art.  I admit that I find art much harder, its not my skill set.  I wasn't trying to say it was easy, because its not.  But I do think that being unable to admit science is right and not anti G-d would make it harder for the Duggars than art.  

[BecausePrayer]

2 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I have taken both, more science than art.  I admit that I find art much harder, its not my skill set.  I wasn't trying to say it was easy, because its not.  But I do think that being unable to admit science is right and not anti G-d would make it harder for the Duggars than art.  

I think in the areas of classwork and content, the Duggars would find science more difficult just like you said. Jinger has decent photography skills for someone who has not studied it, and could most likely produce work that would do well for the class. The Duggars with artistic skill would encounter issues in art courses with dealing with others criticism of their art in a classroom setting, and they also would not want to be around other work produced by the students with content they didn't agree with. Whether that was extreme immodesty (to them) in the art work created of depictions of things they disagree with such as homosexuality.

[Knight of Ni]

Don’t forget they may have to sit next to someone with green hair. 

[PennySycamore]

@BecausePrayer, I don't think they'd deal with a Life Class (with nude models) well at all.  

[Fun Undies]

2 hours ago, ThunderRolls said:

For someone as serious about Christian theology as Jeremy professes to be, I don't see any evidence of him doing serious training and study other than some pictures of him reading books. 

I've personally come across, met, and know well, two types of Christians (when it comes to "studying" the faith).

One - the ones who go to chat pages to discuss various biblical interpretations, attend religion classes (both at school level, and/or with their own church AS well as visiting other churches), take part in church events/discussions, read passages of biblical text via different branches  (i.e. not just KJV), and watch historical documentaries of the era to better understand the writers of the Bible.

Two - the ones who read a few quotes to fit their dogma, memorize it, and shout it at you when you do something they don't like.

^ okay so there's a middle ground . . . But personally, just from my own experiences, it's usually one or the other ~

FWIW ~ I'd recommend the Oxford Annotated Bible for bible study

[Georgiana]

I think the saddest Duggar schooling story is Joy.

She was so far below the reading level she should have been at, that it was actually discussed on the show.  I believe they even mentioned that she struggles with reading because they suspected she had dyslexia. So they KNEW they had a child struggling.  They KNEW a possible reason why she was struggling.

Did they get her real help?  Nope.  In fact, they said this was BETTER for her because she was able to "go at her own pace".  Sorry, but plateauing at a 10 year old reading level is NOT "going at her own pace".  What she needed was assistance and a specialized plan to help her overcome her struggles because she was falling seriously behind.  You don't just let her sit there and struggle, hoping that eventually God just cures her learning disability as she gets further and further behind her peers.  It doesn't WORK LIKE THAT.  But with help, help that is offered FOR FREE in your local public school and may even be available to in-district homeschoolers, it CAN become something that no longer blocks her and that she knows how to work around.  

And now, she'll be homeschooling her kids.  Kids who hopefully will quickly surpass a 10 year old reading level.  And then what?

[adidas]

We went to visit friends a few years ago - when we got there they asked us if we would like them to watch our kids while we went out on a date. Yeah! Our friends said they’d heard there was an awesome new vampire movie - it had just been released, and being 90s teens we immediately thought of Interview with a Vampire.

We were the oldest people at the movies and we nearly walked out. It was so bad.

And that’s my Twilight experience

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

17 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

 

And now, she'll be homeschooling her kids.  Kids who hopefully will quickly surpass a 10 year old reading level.  And then what?

And now People will have a story about how she overcame dyslexia with the support of her husband and kids.... Because she, too, wanted to show her children anything was possible.

Is that too much to hope for?

[justoneoftwo]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

I think the saddest Duggar schooling story is Joy.

She was so far below the reading level she should have been at, that it was actually discussed on the show.  I believe they even mentioned that she struggles with reading because they suspected she had dyslexia. So they KNEW they had a child struggling.  They KNEW a possible reason why she was struggling.

Did they get her real help?  Nope.  In fact, they said this was BETTER for her because she was able to "go at her own pace".  Sorry, but plateauing at a 10 year old reading level is NOT "going at her own pace".  What she needed was assistance and a specialized plan to help her overcome her struggles because she was falling seriously behind.  You don't just let her sit there and struggle, hoping that eventually God just cures her learning disability as she gets further and further behind her peers.  It doesn't WORK LIKE THAT.  But with help, help that is offered FOR FREE in your local public school and may even be available to in-district homeschoolers, it CAN become something that no longer blocks her and that she knows how to work around.  

And now, she'll be homeschooling her kids.  Kids who hopefully will quickly surpass a 10 year old reading level.  And then what?

I will say, as a person with mild dyslexia, I was allowed to "go at my own pace."  I didn't read and my parents were told it would click one day, and not to worry.  Well it did, again to some extent.  I still had some issues, and worked at that point to find strategies around the problem.  But for us it was really helpful to not have the pressure, or be pushed into something that didn't work.  

[llg1234]

Jinger got to meet up with some of her family last weekend.

 

[onekidanddone]

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@BecausePrayer, I don't think they'd deal with a Life Class (with nude models) well at all.  

They would just draw one big Nike shoe.

2 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

Don’t forget they may have to sit next to someone with green hair. 

I'm not up on all the Duggar stories.  What is it with the green hair?

[Carm_88]

29 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I'm not up on all the Duggar stories.  What is it with the green hair?

That's Erin Bates Paine actually. She was offered a scholarship the the university of Tennessee and when she was asked about not going on United Bates of America, she said she might have to sit next to someone with green hair or something.  

[Shadoewolf]

Like this? That is Oldest's hair last spring. Sorry about the size, I still haven't figured out spoilers quite yet!

 

[Jinder Roles]

@Shadoewolf I love the green against your slightly strawberry blonde.

@jacduggar I slightly disagree with you. I think Jeremy would let Jinger receive and education. Uneducated women is not his brand of fundamentalism. I think of him as a tepid Voddie Baucham, where educated women are important as long as they don't use their learning to be independent. Jeremy is most definitely concerned with appareances, but he's also a theology junkie. All the clips of him talking about Jinger raise how amazing she is and generally encouraging her. 

For me, I find Jessa to be the most intellectually curious of the adults so far. Ben mentioned they debated theology and that's when he realized he liked her. She's also prone to long biblical verse interpretations (more before she had Henry) and very off attempts at intellectual arguments (e.g.: that terrible abortion post)

[jacduggar]

15 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

@Shadoewolf I love the green against your slightly strawberry blonde.

@jacduggar I slightly disagree with you. I think Jeremy would let Jinger receive and education. Uneducated women is not his brand of fundamentalism. I think of him as a tepid Voddie Baucham, where educated women are important as long as they don't use their learning to be independent. Jeremy is most definitely concerned with appareances, but he's also a theology junkie. All the clips of him talking about Jinger raise how amazing she is and generally encouraging her. 

For me, I find Jessa to be the most intellectually curious of the adults so far. Ben mentioned they debated theology and that's when he realized he liked her. She's also prone to long biblical verse interpretations (more before she had Henry) and very off attempts at intellectual arguments (e.g.: that terrible abortion post)

That is, if Jinger even wants to go to college or is able to (still can’t find any info about the GED - not sure what Laredo has for schooling options). Would she even be able to pass a basic college entrance exam? Jinger has never struck me as a go-getter type who would care to try getting a degree. I agree, I think given the chance Jessa would explore higher education. I also think Jill would possibly go into some level of nursing. Jinger appears to enjoy being a kept woman and flying all over the south following Jeremy around. 

[Shadoewolf]

@Jinder Roles that's actually my teenager's hair! I'm one of those crazy laid back parents who figures her last year in high school should be fun. Her hair is now dark red.