Jinger 32: Light into the Darkness According to Jeremy

[JDuggs]

I wouldn’t call Jill exactly open to change as much as enthusiastic about helping people and serving the Lord which I don’t really see in her sisters. I don’t think her core values have changed at all since she’s been married. If she didn’t have two difficult deliveries, she would probably be praying for tons of babies. She’s not going to abandon her modesty standards. While Jinger’s core values probably haven’t changed either, she’s embracing a different type of modest wardrobe and appears happily child-free at this time. 

[justoneoftwo]

I imagine taking a science class would be harder than an art class.  They are just so wrong when it comes to what they think about science.   With art there is no right or wrong, which I think might actually make it easier, they don't have to accept things they don't like.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

I imagine taking a science class would be harder than an art class.  They are just so wrong when it comes to what they think about science.   With art there is no right or wrong, which I think might actually make it easier, they don't have to accept things they don't like.

I disagree. I would struggle mightily in an art class, and yes - there IS "right or wrong" in art.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I actually think (and this is totally arguable and just my personal opinion) that Jill is the daughter most open to change. She took the leap and entered into a courtship first, before any of her sisters - that must have been at least somewhat nerve-wracking and definitely treading on unfamiliar territory. She wanted to be a nurse, then compromised and set out to become a midwife. She tried to teach herself Spanish. She travelled overseas to meet the guy she was interested in, and I'll always remember her happily eating the local food and telling Jim Bob to just stop complaining and try it. She wanted to be a missionary, something no one else in her family had pursued...

The issue with Jill is that her learned helplessness trips her up at every turn. It's like she has this natural drive to want to explore and try different things and have experiences, but it's in conflict with her equally strong desire to be Good (which in her case means being the perfect fundie daughter/wife/mother). The drive to be Good will always win unless she can overcome everything she was ever taught about being submissive, obedient, and content.

Just a minor correction - Jill did not court first. Jessa did.

Jessa and Ben started talking in spring of 2013, shortly before his birthday in May. They were outed as a couple in early September 2013 and announced their courtship shortly after. Jill and Derick started talking in August 2013 and began courting in November 2013. So Jessa courted first, but Jill was the first daughter engaged, married, and a mom.

Otherwise I agree with you. I’ve always found Jill to be one of the more curious and adventurous Duggars. I think she may have done ok if they had become missionaries before welcoming children - I think raising a rambunctious little boy so far from her support system and in an unfamiliar place may not have been easy for her. It wouldn’t be for many people. 

[singsingsing]

@VelociRapture Oops - you're right! I always mix them up because they began around the same time, but Jessa started courting slightly earlier and Jill got married slightly earlier. Thanks for correcting my error! 

Re: science being harder than art. This is all totally subjective and mostly comes down to how your brain works and to some extent what you enjoy doing. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, singsingsing said:

Re: science being harder than art. This is all totally subjective and mostly comes down to how your brain works and to some extent what you enjoy doing. 

As I said, a few pages back.

[immodest_countenance]

As much as Jill annoys me and how ditzy she comes across, she's the one Duggar I can actually see doing well in a secondary-education environment. She seems fairly book smart, and seemed to be focused and dedicated to midwifery. If she wasn't homeschooled, she proabably would have done fairly well in school. You know, the kind of girl who does the extra credit for fun, teachers pet, on honor council, kind of student. Sadly, I think her personal life has put a wrench on any plans for further education.

Jinger on the other hand, doesnt really strike me as intellectualy curious at all, but I see her pursuing a further education. Call me cynical, but I think Jeremy is very concerned about appearances. Many of his friends, family, and associates are college educated with professional careers. Jeremy really seems like he wants to come across as this super well-read, intellectual #deep pastor. Besides if you were Jeremy would you want to be the guy who married some young uneducated, meek tlc reality tv star from arkansas, or the guy who "saved" and "freed" Jinger by giving her a new life and pushing her to get an education. But again, me just speculating and being cynical. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:29 PM, TheMustardCardigan said:

@VelociRapture, great list! Thanks for that. Looking down the list made me realize Joy and Austin are the only Duggar offspring couple with a joint account for a couple (not really counting the Duggarfam account just because the kids seem to at least sometimes have access to it in addition to JB and Michelle). I'm wondering why that is. Maybe neither of them are super interested in social media so they just pool their efforts? 

A lot of religious couples consider this an accountability thing. Both parties have the password. Your old special friend from the past is less likely to try to reconnect on FB if they're not sure if they're talking to you or your spouse and you're not going to start an emotional affair if your spouse can read all your PMs.

[Hashtag Blessed]

11 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

A lot of religious couples consider this an accountability thing. Both parties have the password. Your old special friend from thse past is less likely to try to reconnect on FB if they're not sure if they're talking to you or your spouse and you're not going to stat an emotional affair if your spouse can read all your PMs.

This, like most "accountability" rules in fundiedom, strikes me as an unhealthy level of control.

I mean, my husband and I share passwords to a lot our accounts, but it has genuinely never entered my mind that we should share all of our social media so I can read all of his PM's. That's something that is reasonable for a parent to do to a young child, but not to do with your spouse. JFC, fundies are so afraid of sex and adultery that they revolve their entire lives around preventing it. Yet it still happens, like with dear Joshley, despite their best efforts. I'm not saying I've never snooped on a boyfriend's emails here and there, but at a certain point you're supposed to trust each other, and yourselves!

I was just thinking of that movie Old Fashioned, where the guy is like Mike Pence and refuses to be alone in a room with a woman who's not his wife. Like, bro that just makes me think you're a serial rapist, not a good christian. You can't even trust yourself to be alone with any woman ever? That's psychotic.  This is more of the same. Like, you can't trust yourself to even message someone over the internet without your spouse looking over your shoulder to keep you "accountable?" Barf. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

We have a (locked-down) list of passwords. Everything's there - including our social media accounts. Hey - somebody's gotta be able to delete accounts if things go haywire or we hit the big lottery or get our unintended 15 minutes of fame.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Now they are saying Jinger is preggers because she doesn't look happy in a new video......Wow, slow news day.

If she is--or when she finally is, at least she got some time to be married w/o kids like  on JB/M did. The video on yahoo showed her looking pretty pissed at hubby imho

[jacduggar]

1 hour ago, immodest_countenance said:

Call me cynical, but I think Jeremy is very concerned about appearances. Many of his friends, family, and associates are college educated with professional careers. Jeremy really seems like he wants to come across as this super well-read, intellectual #deep pastor. Besides if you were Jeremy would you want to be the guy who married some young uneducated, meek tlc reality tv star from arkansas, or the guy who "saved" and "freed" Jinger by giving her a new life and pushing her to get an education. But again, me just speculating and being cynical. 

Yes, Jeremy is concerned about appearances, but it’s not uncommon within other fundamentalist cultures to keep women uneducated so I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeremy didn’t want Jinger to get any extra education. Do the girls even get GEDs? We know the boys do but I always sort of thought the girls just “aged out” of SOTDRT. Education creates opportunity, opportunity means the girls could flee. Can’t have that. 

 

Also, Jeremy is the one who said he wanted a meek woman, so yeah I’m pretty sure he’s cool with that. He’s also probably cool with being hailed a hero by the leghumpers for whisking Jinger, letting her get religious books from the book store, and letting her wear jordans. I’m pretty sure Jeremy is fine with whatever role gets him his d-list fame. 

[Lurky]

3 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I imagine taking a science class would be harder than an art class.  They are just so wrong when it comes to what they think about science.   With art there is no right or wrong, which I think might actually make it easier, they don't have to accept things they don't like.

But have you taken university-level education in either?  I ask that genuinely, because I think a lot of people think art is "easy" because there's no right or wrong, but they don't necessarily understand what it is like to have to justify/explain one's work at high levels.

[Hashtag Blessed]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

We have a (locked-down) list of passwords. Everything's there - including our social media accounts. Hey - somebody's gotta be able to delete accounts if things go haywire or we hit the big lottery or get our unintended 15 minutes of fame.

I mean, we do too but I'd still have to go look them up if I wanted to snoop on my husband's DM's. And like you said, it is for emergency situations. Not so we can keep a watchful eye out for giving away pieces of heart over the internet. 

I mean, cheating happens. I'm not delusional. But I'm not going to spend my entire marriage/life looking over my shoulder for another woman to snatch my man. Because that's crazy. 

[cascarones]

5 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

Didn't JInger say that Jeremy had a Masters in Finance during the All about Jinger special?

She stated something to the effect of him going to graduate school/ studying finance. He didn't complete the degree, nor is it listed anywhere his BA is. He left the program to play professional soccer for a Finnish team. His wikipedia (if you trust that source) states he went to play after college with no indication of any graduate degree and given the time he began playing abroad, he wouldn't have had time to complete the degree. He wanted to be a professional soccer player so he did that. I wouldn't have put off my dream another year or two in a field where age is a limiting factor either.

I'm a soccer nutter, so could probably write pages on the mental dynamics between his unfulfilling soccer career and calling to be a pastor, but I'm sure I'd bore everyone   

On the education front: I think it's a bit unfair we're all assuming they'd need remedial classes, quite a lot depends on the teacher. I know college graduates who went to community schools and found the curriculum easier than HS, graduates who for the life of them couldn't pass algebra in HS and did just fine with a different teacher in college. Lower level chemistry doesn't involve advanced math, it involves conversions/algebra and memorization. Biology is also mostly memorization, they all seem to have reading comprehension which is one of the biggest underlying skills for success in any subject. All of that being said I don't see any active expressed interest in higher education, so the arguments are moot.

[Lurky]

32 minutes ago, cascarones said:

On the education front: I think it's a bit unfair we're all assuming they'd need remedial classes, quite a lot depends on the teacher.

We're all basing what we think of their education on what they've chosen to show us on the TV and their website.  So giving them cult-friendly booklets to read, and computer programmes to complete, and that's it.

For sure, they could have more than that, but I don't understand why they'd hide a good education.

[bananabread]

JinJer posted a new video about SWAN. I gotta say, I LOVE that they are making a real effort to help children in need. As someone who grew up in a crazy situation thanks to parents with substance abuse problems/mental illness, I really appreciate their mission. Now if only Jessa and Ben could get involved in something similar......

 

[cascarones]

@Lurky Quite true, I'm not familiar with the ATI/IBLP homeschooling system, only the Classical Conversations version of Christian education. I was just thinking we have quite a few home school families on here who take education very seriously and recalled the quotes that the Duggars said about their children being able to do whatever they wanted to. Now, from the outside looking in that doesn't seem to be true. 

Also might be personally top of mind topic at the moment. Packing a care package for a friend who didn't pass the bar for the second time, which she blames in part on being home schooled before college and intense test taking anxiety as a result.

It made me think of Jill and her losing all of those hours and it could have discouraged her younger siblings from even trying. The two siblings older than me both had a rough go at college for different reasons and for me it lit a fire. So I scooted myself in and out of college early, feeling the pressure to be the one who did it right. That's not the case/reaction for everyone, especially, when you really look up to, admire and think your siblings/ moms can do anything until they can't.

[justmy2cents]

5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Jessa and Ben started talking in spring of 2013, shortly before his birthday in May.

My nephew is just a few weeks away from his 18th birthday and it blows my mind that at that age Ben was ready to begin a relationship with the goal of marriage and soon to be followed by fatherhood.  

[xlurker]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:37 PM, snickers34 said:

Yeah, not to mention photography really isn't a major that's offered at most real universities in the US. It's usually a community college/technical college sort of thing.

Photography classes should be offered at any college offering fine or visual arts degrees--it may not be a major, but be courses offered within a major. 

[xlurker]

IF, and its a big if, Jing ever pursued a degree, a BFA with an intensity in photo would be more attainable I think.  Yeah, its intense...so I would assume sticking a toe in at a local community college.  But she may be able to polish up a raw talent enough to apply for a school that offers a BFA.  The difference between a BA in Fine Arts or photography and a BFA is lab time. I believe the BFA is a solid 2/3 spent in "lab" or actually persuing art, while the BA is more rounded with sciences, humanities, languages etc.  Dont get me wrong, a BFA is NOT easy....but if you have enough talent to get into a program, it would be easier for Jing with her lack of book learning, as less emphasis is placed there.  Spoken from a BFA drop out   Not lack of talent, but life, and death, take thier tolls on the best laid plans

[SapphireSlytherin]

My mom had a BFA. She could draw/paint/sketch anything. She called it a worthless degree because she couldn't do anything with it - she didn't have an education minor/double major. So she worked for the US government. They don't care what your degree is.

She said she only went to college because HER mom made her (her mom had a BS in Education/English literature minor).

My dad has a BSE and a MS/Music Education. His dad had a BS in civil engineering. HIS mom (my great-grandmother) had a teaching degree. We're (mostly) a highly educated family.

[Fjrocks]

5 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

We have a (locked-down) list of passwords. Everything's there - including our social media accounts. Hey - somebody's gotta be able to delete accounts if things go haywire or we hit the big lottery or get our unintended 15 minutes of fame.

   I always wonder this when someone gets arrested and then the media immediately starts scanning the interwebs. They can't do a damn thing to lockdown their social media from a holding cell.   

     A man here was declared a "person of interest" by the local police and the media was honest to God googling him LIVE ON AIR within minutes. 

    While he was actively trying to give the police the slip, television viewers were watching his YouTube channel, seeing old mugs shots and speculating on the meaning of his vaguebooking.

     It was a train wreck. I turned it off and immediately purged anything that would embarrass my poor mother should I get carried away in my feminist protesting one day.

[SapphireSlytherin]

6 minutes ago, Fjrocks said:

   I always wonder this when someone gets arrested and then the media immediately starts scanning the interwebs. They can't do a damn thing to lockdown their social media from a holding cell.   

     A man here was declared a "person of interest" by the local police and the media was honest to God googling him LIVE ON AIR within minutes. 

    While he was actively trying to give the police the slip, television viewers were watching his YouTube channel, seeing old mugs shots and speculating on the meaning of his vaguebooking.

     It was a train wreck. I turned it off and immediately purged anything that would embarrass my poor mother should I get carried away in my feminist protesting one day.

If you don't have friends/family who will take down your public profiles, I suggest you get some. lol

[Georgia3112]

11 hours ago, Hashtag Blessed said:

I mean, my husband and I share passwords to a lot our accounts, but it has genuinely never entered my mind that we should share all of our social media so I can read all of his PM's

My husband and I share our phone passwords- only because we need it sometimes- like I can't find my phone and he's doing something and tells me to grab his and make a call to find it and stuff like that. All our social media is in our phone, so we have unlimited acces, but I never tried to read his messages, facebook messages or anything like that. And I'm really sure he didn't either. Actually I still speak to 2 of my ex-boyfriends- the only 2 real realationships I had before him and he knows and isn't bothered. (we speak like 2-3 times in a year)

So I agree- it's all about trust- if I'm afraid he would get any opportunity to lie/cheat I already have a big problem in my relationship tbh.