Dillards 35: Waiting on People Magazine

[backyard sylph]

11 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

When is the Mach 5 arriving? I'm guessing there won't be much fanfare but it will bring some attention back to the Duggars, including Jill. 

I am right this minute watching the Speed Racer movie, and this question really threw me for a loop. :-)

[SassyPants]

Wouldn't it just be better if there was an episode (the final episode) in which JB and M came out on stage and just admitted that they have made a killing off of having kids, and selling those kids and their "lifestyle" to the media for easy cash, and a great deal of it, and addition, have been able to purchase many, many properties [by likely using illegal shyster tactics], and that no one in the next 2 generations will ever need to really work for a living, drop the mic and walk away? 

Do the honest and honorable thing, JB. Be the headship and leader that you continually claim to be.

I could respect that- shyster tactics and all, far more than the shit show they are trying to shovel.

Clearly, no one needs to work- necessity is the mother of all inventions. There is no necessity to earn a living, provide for one's self and one's growing family within the Duggar circle.

[Kjaerringa]

I am currently quite worried about Jill's scripture Instagram. The verse immediately preceding the one she posted is badly translated in that version and reads that there should be woe to them who forget God, for He will tear them apart and they shall not be delivered.

I feel like a road trip. Though it would do no good. Any one on here who could actually DO something? Dear Lord, this poor thing.

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, backyard sylph said:

I am right this minute watching the Speed Racer movie, and this question really threw me for a loop. :-)

I know it was widely panned but nothing has ever brought me back to being 6 years old like that film did. 

My son who was then about 6 himself - and my excuse for seeing the movie - spent most of the time staring at me like "You can't possibly like this".  Oh, yes I can, and I did.

[frugalitymom]

If there is something wrong I find it surprised they haven't said anything considering how open they were about Josie and the loss of Jubilee 

[LovelyLuna]

Sam looks like a cross between Spuddy and Izzy.  Whatever happened to Jill, I am about done caring.  I’m getting board. 

[Kittikatz]

I think that the Dullards have an extraordinary talent for making consistently poor life choices. I also think that they have exceedingly thin skins, and were unable to deal well with the criticisms they received on social media for those choices.

The story behind Jill's second long labour and repeat C-section probably feature more questionable choices, and if she's feeling sensitive because she didn't get the birth she wanted, is feeling physically awful, or got some bad news about her reproductive future she may well just not want to be raked over the proverbial coals by a bunch of strangers. I can't blame her, it's hard to have salt poured into wounds, even if they are somewhat self inflicted. I just hope she's not suffering from PPD - faith can help people get through rough times, but there are some things that need real therapy and/or pharmaceutical intervention, and I could see those options being ignored in favour of essential oils or some sort of spiritual cleansing.

That said, if the Dullards would just pull their heads out and start using their brains, they could easily avoid a lot of the online negativity.

[Kaylo]

IIRC, the last time Derrick and Jill came back for an extended period of time he worked as a substitute teacher.

[Karma]

As far as we know, that substitute teaching might have only been for a day?  I don't recall any length of time being mentioned.  Anyone else?

[Shadoewolf]

It wasn't very long, and unless it's summer school I don't think class is back in session for another 2 weeks in AR.

[witchesneedcoffee]

15 hours ago, Bethella said:

The only thing you were proving is that you could in fact deliver vaginally. I've heard it once or twice in other places- I linked to one reference below. Basically, we won't know if Jill can deliver vaginally until she actually does so. She has tried and failed twice now. The babies may just be too big for her pelvis or there could be some other obstruction or problem.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-4q6EZ1-OWkC&pg=PA590&lpg=PA590&dq=unproven+birth+canal&source=bl&ots=2HwFGPkN9M&sig=wJTwNiJgyiA8KBxOQROmmoGykug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL6cmc4KTVAhUKRSYKHXJ1AgAQ6AEITjAJ#v=onepage&q=unproven birth canal&f=false

In my case it was a deformed tailbone from a playground accident in middleschool. The babies couldn't drop down enough and get into position to put pressure on my cervix.

[PainfullyAware]

I'm really confused about this term "proving" you can deliver vaginally, as if it's a test you pass or fail. Where does it come from? To my ears it sounds like a sexist determination of 'true' womanhood (all that matters is successful reproduction and mothering). 

Just to be clear I'm totally understanding of the fact that someone would be disappointed if their birth plan doesn't go according to their hopes. It just seems much better to say that a vaginal delivery wasn't possible because of X reason rather than that they couldn't 'prove their ability to deliver vaginally'.

Or am I just being Captain Obvious and missing the point of the entire discussion?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Karma said:

As far as we know, that substitute teaching might have only been for a day?  I don't recall any length of time being mentioned.  Anyone else?

For some reason, I thought I remembered that D-wreck was substituting on a day that teachers (not sure how many) were attending a memorial service for either a fellow teacher or a student. Or for more than one person.

In an unusual circumstance like that, I assumed he was just being helpful for a single day. And that the school district may have had several "out of the ordinary" substitute teachers because of the unique situation. I don't have anything to back up my recollection, though.

[Dugg@rTime]

2 minutes ago, PainfullyAware said:

I'm really confused about this term "proving" you can deliver vaginally, as if it's a test you pass or fail. Where does it come from? To my ears it sounds like a sexist determination of 'true' womanhood (all that matters is successful reproduction and mothering). 

Just to be clear I'm totally understanding of the fact that someone would be disappointed if their birth plan doesn't go according to their hopes. It just seems much better to say that a vaginal delivery wasn't possible because of X reason rather than that they couldn't 'prove their ability to deliver vaginally'.

Or am I just being Captain Obvious and missing the point of the entire discussion?

As I understand it, the "unproven birth canal" was bandied about in relation to Jill's chances of managing a VBAC, and whether the medical profession would allow or recommend her trying for one. After one CS, there's a chance that was all the baby's "fault" - bad position, size etc. after 2 CS and not having shown her body as able to birth a child previously the chances are more likely to be something relating to the mother - whether physical or otherwise, and sane people would not risk uterine rupture on something that is still unknown (ability to have a vaginal delivery)

if a mother had previously given birth vaginally and needed CS due to eg a breech baby it's likely she could VBAC safely, but there's always the chance of uterine rupture there too. 

Its ts not about proving womanhood, it's more about suitability for VBAC.

[Karma]

Yes, that sounds like what I remember, @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?.  

[MadeItOut]

8 hours ago, Kjaerringa said:

I am currently quite worried about Jill's scripture Instagram. The verse immediately preceding the one she posted is badly translated in that version and reads that there should be woe to them who forget God, for He will tear them apart and they shall not be delivered.

I feel like a road trip. Though it would do no good. Any one on here who could actually DO something? Dear Lord, this poor thing.

None of us could do anything constructive at this point hon. She's so steeped in the cult that we would likely put her further off balance if we were to convince her of even a different Bible version - and that's assuming anyone could even get near long enough to have a conversation.

Sadly, whatever it is, no matter how big/small, this is one fall she'll have to take alone with her God and what little the cult has equipped her.

Sometimes though, some of us have to go right down to come up good. There's hope. There's always hope.

Best thing we can do now is let her have at it. We could send our love/prayers/good thoughts/light a candle, but beyond that...

[Captain Obvious]

6 hours ago, frugalitymom said:

If there is something wrong I find it surprised they haven't said anything considering how open they were about Josie and the loss of Jubilee 

They said stuff about Josie and Jubilee because they could do so while still promoting their values (endless pregnancies, prioritising the baby's health over the mother's, considering a baby as a person no matter how early in pregnancy).

If, as I think has happened, Samuel is healthy but Jill's fertility is permanently affected by his birth, there's nothing for them to promote. It would be a disaster for them, and perhaps a sign that trusting in God doesn't always work, especially when you do it for the purposes of validating a dangerous home birth.

2 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

Or am I just being Captain Obvious and missing the point of the entire discussion?

I was briefly confused by this comment, ha.

[lolo3300]

Speaking as a CPS worker we don't get involved because the parent makes poor delivery choices. Social workers at hospitals will call in cases over just about anything but even they know there's not anything we can do if we have kids that are okay and at least one protective caregiver. 

[singsingsing]

10 hours ago, Kjaerringa said:

I am currently quite worried about Jill's scripture Instagram. The verse immediately preceding the one she posted is badly translated in that version and reads that there should be woe to them who forget God, for He will tear them apart and they shall not be delivered.

I feel like a road trip. Though it would do no good. Any one on here who could actually DO something? Dear Lord, this poor thing.

Er, no? What exactly would we do? And for what reason? They all seem perfectly fine. The baby looks very healthy, clean and cared for. Derick and Jill have both been active on social media (just not in the way that Duggar watchers would prefer). The entire family is acting like everything's business as usual. The fact that the verse she quoted was preceded by one about the wrath of God means absolutely nothing. That's just the Old Testament for you.

If Jill does need help, she has a lot of family members and friends who are much better placed to help her. We are strangers on the internet. Jill Dillard is not your responsibility. If she posts something truly alarming on Instagram and you really feel like one of them is in danger, call her town's police department. But I'm guessing that won't be necessary.

 

Want to know what I think, honestly? Jill just had a bitter, bitter disappointment. She wanted a V-BAC. She wanted an easy, quick labour like Jessa's and like the countless she witnessed as a trainee midwife. Instead she got another marathon labour and a second emergency c-section, and there were probably a few other complications thrown in there that we don't know about. That doesn't mean that she had a hysterectomy, that she's suffering severe PPD, or that the baby has Zika. And for all we know, the doctor told her, "Don't worry, you can keep having babies after this." But for all her faults, Jill does have a brain. She must know that, even in the best case scenario, if the doctor told her it was okay to keep getting pregnant, that she'll never be able to have 10+ kids at this point. If the doctor warned her against future pregnancies, or told her 'only one more' or something like that, even worse. She could seriously just be wrestling with how on earth she's going to manage her fertility when constant repeat pregnancies are now a Very Bad Idea, but her cult tells her it's a terrible sin to use birth control, and she must be joyfully available to her husband. 

[VelociRapture]

@singsingsingPREEEEEEEEEEEEEEACH!!!!! 

But seriously. I think it's wonderful that we have so many posters here who are obviously caring people. I know a lot of you are likely worried because you've watched Jill grow up on tv. I get it. It's tough. 

But she doesn't know you. And no matter how many episodes of the shows you've watched, you don't actually know Jill either. Showing up to comfort her, even if done with the best intentions, would likely be creepy as fuck to her and I wouldn't blame her a bit for feeling that way. Everyone is free to do as they wish, but I've found the best policy is not to interact with the wildlife (and for the love of FSM, if you do decide to interact DO NOT MENTION THIS WEBSITE IN ANYWAY!)

As for posters predicting doom and disaster - we'll find out what happened (or what they want us to know) when they feel like telling us. Like Singsing said the most likely scenario is probably minor complications, a bruised ego, and dashed hopes for having the chance to give birth vaginally in the future. That's a lot for anyone to handle - and that's not even counting the public spotlight they've chosen to live in.

If they want privacy right now, let them have it. If they're drumming up interest for next season, then stop playing along. Basically, just ignore them until something new is publicly released.  

[SapphireSlytherin]

7 hours ago, frugalitymom said:

 

If there is something wrong I find it surprised they haven't said anything considering how open they were about Josie and the loss of Jubilee 

 

Josie and Jubilee were JBoob and JChelle's children. They called the shots regarding their children.

Samuel is Jill and Derick's child. I would assume they're calling the shots regarding their own children.

[MadeItOut]

3 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

None of us could do anything constructive at this point hon. She's so steeped in the cult that we would likely put her further off balance if we were to convince her of even a different Bible version - and that's assuming anyone could even get near long enough to have a conversation.

Sadly, whatever it is, no matter how big/small, this is one fall she'll have to take alone with her God and what little the cult has equipped her.

Sometimes though, some of us have to go right down to come up good. There's hope. There's always hope.

Best thing we can do now is let her have at it. We could send our love/prayers/good thoughts/light a candle, but beyond that...

Just occurred to me, I should probably just add in the unlikely event some lurking nutter reads and runs with - by "send(ing) our love/prayers/good thoughts/light a candle" I did mean quietly from ourselves into the ether or wherever according to our own traditions, not, for example, sending a card/teddy/flowers or something seriously weird. That's called stalking and it's a crime. I'm most positively not advocating anyone take up any form of criminal activity.

[CoveredInBees]

7 hours ago, Kaylo said:

IIRC, the last time Derrick and Jill came back for an extended period of time he worked as a substitute teacher.

I bet he was a thrill a minute  

it kind of brings to mind:

Bueller..........

Bueller..........

Bueller..........

[Snarkylark]

@singsingsing, exactly. I stated essentially the same thing a few posts back. 

Do we know whether Jill's section with SSD was actually an emergency C? Or just one after 40 hours? There is a difference. 

As far as the unproven birth canal talk, I think some people are reading into it. Unproven means just that. It doesn't mean she's less of a woman. It just means that she hasn't given birth vaginally yet so her birth canal hasn't been proven to be able to pass a baby through it. I don't see it as an attack on women. It's just basic anatomy and physiology. 

[bal maiden]

"Proven birth canal" is not just a FJ term: I have heard it used by both my midwife (fear not, FJers, my midwives were medically qualified, I'm in the U.K. these days!) and obstetricians. I'm the last person to argue that by virtue of being a medical term it is free from any value judgements, but I don't think that those people using it on here were using it as a stick with which to beat Jill for being a lesser woman. "Spontaneous abortion" (aka miscarriage) is another such medical term that can make people wince, but similarly is standard terminology in medical parlance.