Dillards 29 - Teaching Them to Make Piñatas

[purjolok84]

8 hours ago, metheglyn said:

It occurs to me that Jill and Derrick were in El Salvador through the whole of Holy Week, which is, of course, a whole progression through suffering and death, to resurrection. As in, by Maundy Thursday into Good Friday and Holy Saturday, yes, there's supposed to be a focus on the suffering and death part of sacrifice for those left behind. It's not about losing hope during that period, it's about thinking about and reflecting on the sacrifice part and THEN rejoicing on Easter AFTER the resurrection.  Expecting happiness and joy about the resurrection during the earlier parts of Holy Week, or even during Lent as a whole, in a majority Catholic country is absurd. NOW we're in the Easter season and the religious calendar focuses on the joy part. But being upset about a lack of joyful celebration of the resurrection during certain parts of the liturgical calendar really highlights for me how little Jill (and Derrick) understand about cultural Catholicism. 

As someone who went to Catholic school and had to suffer in all kinds of ways during Holy Week until the eggs appeared at my nonna's house, Jill just doesn't get the role that suffering plays. And it's not as if it blots out the joyfulness of Easter Sunday. 

Jill is the worst kind of missionary - she barely even knows anything about the religion she is trying to turn these people from.

[actuallyjessica]

The way Jessa and Jill's parenting methods are portrayed and compared on here is going to be a lot more interesting once the rest of the kids get married and have their own families.

Given that our perceptions of Jill and Jessa seem to have switched since they have kids.

Everyone thought Jessa would be cold and distant towards her kids, and she seems to have outwardly taken to motherhood very well.

Jill was always the most maternal of the J'slaves and (no judgement, just observation) she seems like she doesn't enjoy being a parent. At least what we've seen.

[HarleyQuinn]

Jinger's the one I'm most curious about seeing as we never really saw footage of her taking care of her buddies like we did the other three. 

[Cleopatra7]

18 minutes ago, purjolok84 said:

As someone who went to Catholic school and had to suffer in all kinds of ways during Holy Week until the eggs appeared at my nonna's house, Jill just doesn't get the role that suffering plays. And it's not as if it blots out the joyfulness of Easter Sunday. 

Jill is the worst kind of missionary - she barely even knows anything about the religion she is trying to turn these people from.

When Salvadorans celebrate Jesus's Resurrection, they probably do horrible things like dancing and playing music with a beat, which Jill can't witness, lest she compromise her testimony. ATI is so Eurocentric in it's thinking that anything associated with non-white and/or non-US culture is considered suspect, no matter how innocent, so Jill can't appreciate anything about El Salvadoran culture. Even going to England and Ireland was too bizarre and exotic for the Duggars.

[nst]

7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Jinger's the one I'm most curious about seeing as we never really saw footage of her taking care of her buddies like we did the other three. 

I think she was left of it easily and just stayed home cooking. 

I think that Jinge cooked while Jessa sat on the couch a lot based on the footage we saw. 

 

[twinmama]

20 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

That said, if he's over 2 and had a fever of 100.4 or higher for more than three days, then they should have at least called a Doctor.

Eh, I am a big proponent of treat the kid not the fever. My kid had a fever around 100-101 for 5 days a few weeks ago but he was acting like his normal self. Slept well, ate well, was up and playing. It was just a cold and his temp would spike in the late afternoon. I was about to call the doc if it didn't go down after day 5 but it ended up going away that night. 

That said, who knows if Jill is just knowing her specific kid and how his body works or if she's being an uneducated moron. 

[nastyhobbitses]

4 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

When Salvadorans celebrate Jesus's Resurrection, they probably do horrible things like dancing and playing music with a beat, which Jill can't witness, lest she compromise her testimony. ATI is so Eurocentric in it's thinking that anything associated with non-white and/or non-US culture is considered suspect, no matter how innocent, so Jill can't appreciate anything about El Salvadoran culture.

I remember seeing some YouTube comment on the song Baba Yetu (a setting of the Lord's Prayer in Swahili sung by the Soweto Gospel Choir -- it's absolutely amazing and even though I'm not Christian, it's one of my favorite songs because the music is so beautiful) where some fundie said that the Lord's Prayer should only be in English and that singing it with a beat (there's some drumming in the song) was an offense to God.

If you're so Euro/white-centric that you can't accept people from the same goddamn religion as you praying in their own goddamn language accompanied by music that draws on their own goddamn traditions (it should be noted that Baba Yetu was composed by a Chinese-American composer named Christopher Tin, and his whole schtick is writing choral/orchestral music that draws from multiple musical traditions and languages; the album Baba Yetu is from also has a song in Maori, a setting of a poem in Persian, a techno-influenced protest song in French, and a setting of a passage from the Dao de Jing), AND you're so blinded by your prejudice that you can't appreciate beautiful music that expresses faith and joy, you have a fucking problem.

[purjolok84]

2 minutes ago, twinmama said:

Eh, I am a big proponent of treat the kid not the fever ... That said, who knows if Jill is just knowing her specific kid and how his body works or if she's being an uneducated moron. 

That's the problem with Jill and the rest of the Duggars; they do so many stupid, mind blind things that you never know what they'll do or how it will go. It just concerns me that there are children involved.

[nst]

3 minutes ago, purjolok84 said:

That's the problem with Jill and the rest of the Duggars; they do so many stupid, mind blind things that you never know what they'll do or how it will go. It just concerns me that there are children involved.

it's like they are props not people 

[VelociRapture]

37 minutes ago, twinmama said:

Eh, I am a big proponent of treat the kid not the fever. My kid had a fever around 100-101 for 5 days a few weeks ago but he was acting like his normal self. Slept well, ate well, was up and playing. It was just a cold and his temp would spike in the late afternoon. I was about to call the doc if it didn't go down after day 5 but it ended up going away that night. 

That said, who knows if Jill is just knowing her specific kid and how his body works or if she's being an uneducated moron. 

The way she wrote it made me think that 1. it was more serious than what you described above and 2. that he was exhibiting other symptoms than just a fever. She specifically mentioned him not feeling well and finally being back to normal - not like your son who was acting normally other than the fever. How you handled that seemed pretty reasonable.

Maybe it's another case of Jill accidentally (or purposely) making things seem worse than they are. But we only have what she wrote to go on and, as it was written, I'd still say they'd have been stupid not to at least contact a Doctor.

[Bad Wolf]

She prayed and Jesus fixed it. She don't need no stinking doctor. *sigh*

[Four is Enough]

Easter makes no sense without Holy Week. Fundies seem to want to say, "Jesus died for our sins" and be done with it. But to meditate, to think about, to remember the agony that Christ went through even before being nailed to that cross... really brings home (I was gonna say drives home, but then thought about driving nails, and just no) what an ordeal it was. To me it makes the Resurrection much more emphatic, dramatic, important.

But then fundies don't like messy stuff. 

There's a bit of scripture somewhere, or maybe the priests just say it, but they often mention in funerals: "In Baptism  (the deceased) died with Christ. Now let us rejoice in his resurrection." If the death doesn't happen, or gets glossed over, how does the rebirth occur?

[singsingsing]

@Four is Enough exactly. And in one interpretation, Jesus was personally sinless but experienced the full weight of the sin of humanity. He experienced all of the degradation, agony, sorrow, fear, loss, hopelessness and suffering that humans experience, he took it all upon himself, was publicly humiliated, falsely accused, tortured, died an ignoble death and was abandoned by his friends, only to rise again and overcome it all. If your interpretation of Jesus is that he is a get-out-of-hell-free card, where he went through the right token steps, and if you in turn go through the right token steps you'll be saved, you lose all of that meaning. The resurrection symbolizes the ultimate triumph of good over evil. It's not just supposed to be about individuals' personal salvation, it's supposed to be about the redemption of the entire world. How can you appreciate that if you don't focus on the suffering?

[Georgiana]

3 hours ago, nst said:

it's like they are props not people 

Exactly. They are "Blessings".  They are gold stars from God that were given to the parents as a reward for their faithful service. Like a promotion or having your dream home become a reality.  

They aren't seen as people in and of themselves. That would require their parents to consider the weight and gravity of the responsibility of raising another human, which goes against QF beliefs. Rather, they're just seen as trophies from God who (rather inconveniently) come with personalities and traits and needs (aka "sin nature").

[MayMay1123]

14 hours ago, Imagine20 said:

 I was raised Lutheran, and we had a tenebrae service on Good Friday. (Tenebrae services are more solemn, focusing on Jesus' death, and after each reading lights are turned off one by one.) Then the sunrise service on Easter was the time for celebration and happiness. How can people appreciate the meaning of Easter without appreciating the suffering of Christ? 

my old Lutheran church had a Tenebrae that moved many of us to tears every year...in between the readings we had a soloist sing "Were You There?" a capello...when the readings got to the crucifixion, someone would very loudly bang two wooden blocks together three times to symbolize the nails. at the end, all the lights were out and we left in total silence and darkness. the church was closed until late saturday night to symbolize Jesus' tomb, only opened to dress the altar and put out the dozens of lilly plants for Easter morning. Easter service started with the crashing of cymbals. i really need my new church to start this next year!

[2manyKidzzz]

I wonder if Jilly would be viewed more positively as a parent if they had stayed in Arkansas near all of the helpers she could use. I don't know. But Derick's recent statement is concerning. I mean that. Jill is stressed which doesn't help when parenting....I mean overall stress from the living situation. Or maybe she loves it and I am wrong. 

[Cleopatra7]

Just now, 2manyKidzzz said:

I wonder if Jilly would be viewed more positively as a parent if they had stayed in Arkansas near all of the helpers she could use. I don't know. But Derick's recent statement is concerning. I mean that. Jill is stressed which doesn't help when parenting....I mean overall stress from the living situation. Or maybe she loves it and I am wrong. 

Women in ATI are supposed to be perpetually stuck at the emotional and intellectual maturity of a dim-witted twelve year old while simultaneously being pregnant 24/7, homeschooling a bajillion other "blessings," and being "joyfully available" to boot. They're being asked to do a superhuman level of work without the mental resources to make this lifestyle even remotely sustainable. 

[2manyKidzzz]

@Cleopatra7 Sadly I think you have summed it up perfectly. Boo. 

[metheglyn]

3 hours ago, MayMay1123 said:

my old Lutheran church had a Tenebrae that moved many of us to tears every year...in between the readings we had a soloist sing "Were You There?" a capello...when the readings got to the crucifixion, someone would very loudly bang two wooden blocks together three times to symbolize the nails. at the end, all the lights were out and we left in total silence and darkness. the church was closed until late saturday night to symbolize Jesus' tomb, only opened to dress the altar and put out the dozens of lilly plants for Easter morning. Easter service started with the crashing of cymbals. i really need my new church to start this next year!

I'm Episcopalian. My current church doesn't do Tenebrae, choosing instead to do a different Good Friday service followed by a Holy Saturday daytime service and then Saturday night Easter Vigil before Sunday, but the one I used to go to (in another part of the country) did a shared Tenebrae with the nearby Presbyterian Church for years, switching the venue back and forth every year. We'd include a choir/congregational singing of Were You There in the near dark as well, as the lights dimmed after each reading/song/etc. And yes, I recall the loud bang, although ours was used to indicate the moment of death, not the nails, so there was only one. It ended with all of the lights going out, then a single candle being returned to indicate the hope of the prophesied resurrection. I agree, in any of its forms, Tenebrae is a really moving service.  

[FundieCentral]

@nastyhobbitses

Oh fun fact: Do you know about the King James Bible only people? They believe that the King James Bible is particularly holy because apparently Kind James had a special bond with God (more complicated theological reasoning, but that's the gist). And what none of them has ever been able to tell me is how exactly people who aren't native English speakers are supposed to read the Bible if there is only one valid translation. 
Plus, they also honest to God don't know what to do with the Catholic Bible (which includes extra books). They have no knowledge on actual Bible Studies at all, compared to how much time they spend talking about studying the Bible. Anyway. Rant of the day. 

[marmalade]

On 4/20/2017 at 3:54 AM, eleanora3 said:

They actually made their pregnancy announcement the day of that interview (same outfits) so I don't think they were trying to hide it. Unless they didn't know when the interview would be released and there was a possibility it would come out before they made the announcement..

They ANNOUNCED in those clothes, but they HELD the announcement for some time afterward. We didn't know of the pregnancy when the promo stills were published by TLC. 

5 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Women in ATI are supposed to be perpetually stuck at the emotional and intellectual maturity of a dim-witted twelve year old while simultaneously being pregnant 24/7, homeschooling a bajillion other "blessings," and being "joyfully available" to boot. They're being asked to do a superhuman level of work without the mental resources to make this lifestyle even remotely sustainable. 

I think 12 is being a bit generous. 

[ViolaSebastian]

2 hours ago, metheglyn said:

I'm Episcopalian. 

But those pancakes, tho...

[nst]

8 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Exactly. They are "Blessings".  They are gold stars from God that were given to the parents as a reward for their faithful service. Like a promotion or having your dream home become a reality.  

They aren't seen as people in and of themselves. That would require their parents to consider the weight and gravity of the responsibility of raising another human, which goes against QF beliefs. Rather, they're just seen as trophies from God who (rather inconveniently) come with personalities and traits and needs (aka "sin nature").

i bet that is how Jill felt and she transfers it on Israel 

[2manyKidzzz]

I was raised Catholic and I have never heard of Tenebrae. Maybe I should Google it. 

[onekidanddone]

14 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I remember seeing some YouTube comment on the song Baba Yetu (a setting of the Lord's Prayer in Swahili sung by the Soweto Gospel Choir -- it's absolutely amazing and even though I'm not Christian, it's one of my favorite songs because the music is so beautiful) where some fundie said that the Lord's Prayer should only be in English and that singing it with a beat (there's some drumming in the song) was an offense to God.

If you're so Euro/white-centric that you can't accept people from the same goddamn religion as you praying in their own goddamn language accompanied by music that draws on their own goddamn traditions (it should be noted that Baba Yetu was composed by a Chinese-American composer named Christopher Tin, and his whole schtick is writing choral/orchestral music that draws from multiple musical traditions and languages; the album Baba Yetu is from also has a song in Maori, a setting of a poem in Persian, a techno-influenced protest song in French, and a setting of a passage from the Dao de Jing), AND you're so blinded by your prejudice that you can't appreciate beautiful music that expresses faith and joy, you have a fucking problem.

This kind of Euro centric is prevalent in the Jewish community as well. Jews of color are all over the world, but don't tell that to that to main line American Jews. Sound harsh from me? Yes I suppose.  I've known for a long time about the diaspora. Jewish communities (all be it small) in China, Ethiopia, Central and South America and so forth. Although my personal exposure had been limited, I didn't think that a Jew of Color was odd or strange.  

Then I became a mom and my daughter is a Jew of color.  Through a cousin I found out about http://www.jewishmultiracialnetwork.org/.   I've been to a few of their gatherings and learned so much. As non white Jews, many experienced the most racism from white Jews.  "Are you really Jewish"?  "When did you convert"? "You must be adopted right"?  Just a few of the really rude comments. If they were white the people asking these questions wouldn't even think to question their Jewishness. 

There is a hierarchy in every group. Pisses me off.