Dillards 29 - Teaching Them to Make Piñatas

[Cassia]

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

So according to the article, little 2 year old Israel is working on his manners but has mastered manipulation already.

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

It literally made me squirm to hear Derick label Izzy as very manipulative. I know nothing about him as father but I hope that he is gentle and patient and loving with his children. I hope that Jill is on board with his parenting style. I would not be ok with my husband publicly declaring our toddler as very manipulative...

Nobody wins when you declare war on a 2 year old over his (supposedly) sinful nature.

edit: Derick didn't use the term sinful nature.

[VelociRapture]

13 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

you are right, cause at least with Jessa I have the feeling she actually loves her kids and being a mum (besides Henry, which has been established above

If I wouldn't think Jillymuffin is such an dimwit (just like her Husband, who's even worse) I'd feel bad for her. But seriously. I only feel bad for Izzy. He didn't have a say in this.

And now I shall part, the banana bread is ready

 

Edited because I didn't make sense.

I feel for Izzy and all the grandkids born into this cult. They're all pretty likely to be completely screwed over in regards to education, normal and healthy emotional relationships, and the opportunity to think for themselves. And that includes Spurgeon and Henry.

But I feel for the parents who were born into this life as well. It's not difficult to see why they turned out to be massive assholes as adults when you take a look at how their parents raised them. 

The adults who willingly join up get much less sympathy from me. Some who have difficult backgrounds, like Whitney Bates or Derick, get a bit more slack since cults specifically target and prey on emotionally vulnerable people. But still. At some point you can't continue blaming your parents or background for the shitty decisions you're continuing to make - especially if you received a decent education and were exposed to a much more normal life growing up.

And for the record, I wish people would just stop assuming Jill doesn't love her children as much as Jessa loves her's. They obviously have different parenting styles and their children may have very different personalities. If Jill were living close to TTH and had regular access to free childcare, then she might have time to post more adorable photos and videos of Izzy or the progression of her latest pregnancy too. As is, she's very far away from regular help and is likely taking on the majority of care for Izzy.

(And I have nothing against parents having help by the way. I just think it's unfair to compare Jessa and Jill as parents when the circumstances are vastly different.)

11 minutes ago, Cassia said:

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

So according to the article, little 2 year old Israel is working on his manners but has mastered manipulation already.

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

It literally made me squirm to hear Derick label Izzy as very manipulative. I know nothing about him as father but I hope that he is gentle and patient and loving with his children. I hope that Jill is on board with his parenting style. I would not be ok with my husband publicly declaring our toddler as very manipulative...

Nobody wins when you declare war on a 2 year old over his (supposedly) "sinful nature".

If this were a different family then I wouldn't see much of an issue. Kids can be pretty manipulative at times to be completely honest - even toddlers. What Derick described seems fairly normal though. I think most parents or caregivers will recognize when their kid is purposely saying or doing something in order to get what they want.

But Derick's focus on "sinful nature" is all kinds of ridiculous to me personally because Izzy sounds like he's acting like a normal toddler. It's probably too much to hope that he won't be a complete douche to his kids when they act like normal kids. 

[2manyKidzzz]

33 minutes ago, Cassia said:

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

So according to the article, little 2 year old Israel is working on his manners but has mastered manipulation already.

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

It literally made me squirm to hear Derick label Izzy as very manipulative. I know nothing about him as father but I hope that he is gentle and patient and loving with his children. I hope that Jill is on board with his parenting style. I would not be ok with my husband publicly declaring our toddler as very manipulative...

Nobody wins when you declare war on a 2 year old over his (supposedly) "sinful nature".

This is rather incredibly sad. It's really sad. Poor Izzy. And to think I really thought Derick would be a great influence. I was pretty wrong. 

[Bad Wolf]

we know that human nature is still there. Umm what were they expecting, a robot? He's 2 for crying out loud, of course he's going to try to get what he wants. He  could use tantrums instead. Would that be better? Read a book on   child development. They did seem to point out his faults, more than his good qualities

Also, pet peeve, Derick interrupted so much that at times they talked over each other, and I couldn't understand either of them.

[nickelodeon]

I'm sensing shades of Voddie Baucham in Derick's "human nature" bit. Creepy.

[MayMay1123]

51 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

we know that human nature is still there. Umm what were they expecting, a robot? He's 2 for crying out loud, of course he's going to try to get what he wants. He  could use tantrums instead. Would that be better? Read a book on   child development. They did seem to point out his faults, more than his good qualities

 

i think that means they haven't quite beat it all out of him yet...i really hoped that they weren't blanket training the little guy, but that statement...::shudder::

[socalrules]

I think because Derrick hasn't spent much time around toddlers, he doesn't get that what he deems "human nature", is completely normal behavior for a 2 year-old. Does he expect Izzy to spend all day sitting with his hands in his lap and not speaking until addressed by an adult? Kids at that age can be a handful but how can you not love their joy for life and curiosity they have at that age? I worry because Derrick seems to be so much harsher than he did when he first came on the scene. He just seems so angry or upset with everything he discusses and never seems to discuss anything in a positive way. Why isn't there anything about how cute it is that Izzy learned to throw a ball or trying to do a cartwheel? There is never anything about just enjoying being with their child that isn't about religion or trying to get rid of his "human nature".

[Feministe9000]

12 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I think because Derrick hasn't spent much time around toddlers, he doesn't get that what he deems "human nature", is completely normal behavior for a 2 year-old. Does he expect Izzy to spend all day sitting with his hands in his lap and not speaking until addressed by an adult? Kids at that age can be a handful but how can you not love their joy for life and curiosity they have at that age? I worry because Derrick seems to be so much harsher than he did when he first came on the scene. He just seems so angry or upset with everything he discusses and never seems to discuss anything in a positive way. Why isn't there anything about how cute it is that Izzy learned to throw a ball or trying to do a cartwheel? There is never anything about just enjoying being with their child that isn't about religion or trying to get rid of his "human nature".

Even as he referenced his relationship with Jill,

"we've only known eachother 3 years, much less know how to be parents, I never changed a diaper in my life till last year..." etc,.  (paraphrasing)
I saw a sad look on her face, she looked down and away when he said that, I think it hurt her feelings.
There were a few other moments while he was talking over her, that he would squint and I thought it's because he was finally going to smile once, but it was always just sort of a frown, that dude is either drunk on his role as the stern patriarch, or he is just extremely zealous and pissed off, i'm sure it's a bit of both.
Jill starts to say something sweet about Israel, smiling and laughing at something he said, then she's shot down by Derick, "that is his WILL", then she tries to smooth it over and say "yeah, he has a strong will..." *smile* It's very sad to watch these two!!

Derick is douchebag with a God complex, and if this little window into his parenting is anything to go by, I hope Israel grows up and gives him HELL like he's never known, because he will fucking deserve every bit of it.
 

I know she's a bit of a simpleton, but I can't help but feel for Jill.

The adventurous, Christ-loving guy she met and had her fairy-tale relationship meeting in Nepal is gone, or maybe never existed, you contrast him with Derick from this recent interview, holy shit. Very sad for her. I don't wish anything on anybody, but if anyone gets Zika or a really bad illness, I hope it's Derick, God can heal him! Don't worry, let him fester, he'll be just fine. Then he'll find out how powerful his God is!!!

[manda b]

Dillards would it be so hard to say "Israel is  a spunky, curious, and intelligent two year old." ?

[KitCatCadillac]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

I think because Derrick hasn't spent much time around toddlers, he doesn't get that what he deems "human nature", is completely normal behavior for a 2 year-old. Does he expect Izzy to spend all day sitting with his hands in his lap and not speaking until addressed by an adult? Kids at that age can be a handful but how can you not love their joy for life and curiosity they have at that age? I worry because Derrick seems to be so much harsher than he did when he first came on the scene. He just seems so angry or upset with everything he discusses and never seems to discuss anything in a positive way. Why isn't there anything about how cute it is that Izzy learned to throw a ball or trying to do a cartwheel? There is never anything about just enjoying being with their child that isn't about religion or trying to get rid of his "human nature".

Toddlers are not convenient creatures in any way.  The live in the moment, and they are experiencing or understanding so many things for the absolute first time in life.  Israel learning that he can butter his parents up with "I love you"s is pretty big, when you thing about it.  He's learning that his words and actions can affect how the people around him feel and act.

[twinmama]

2 hours ago, manda b said:

Dillards would it be so hard to say "Israel is  a spunky, curious, and intelligent two year old." ?

Right!? If at 2 years old he is seriously saying I love you to butter you up for something he is pretty clever. 

[nst]

13 minutes ago, twinmama said:

Right!? If at 2 years old he is seriously saying I love you to butter you up for something he is pretty clever. 

I get the feeling Derick is hard on Israel because that what the cult wants.  Jill I think follows what he does. 

It's not natural these two imo 

everything is so hard on them and they always confirm it is 

[HarleyQuinn]

I wouldn't bat an eye at "manipulative" if it was said jokingly but Dumb and Dumber seem to see it as a serious downfall. They probably try to beat it out of him.

[marmalade]

8 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

we know that human nature is still there. Umm what were they expecting, a robot? He's 2 for crying out loud, of course he's going to try to get what he wants. He  could use tantrums instead. Would that be better? Read a book on   child development. They did seem to point out his faults, more than his good qualities

Also, pet peeve, Derick interrupted so much that at times they talked over each other, and I couldn't understand either of them.

This part (lifted from their blog post from Monday) pissed me off so much. Guess what Derick? We ALL have "human nature. Even you, you sanctimonious asshole. It comes part and parcel with being HUMAN. Even YOU are a sinner, believe it or not! Words cannot express myutter disdain for Derick Dullard. 

As for manipulation? That TLC interview was done in conjuntion with the promo photoshoot for last season's run, sometime in January. That means Jilly Muffin and Derick were manipulating the audience into believing she wasn't pregnant in that interview, even though she was probably 12ish weeks gone. Derick also hid Jill's midriff in the promo shot they ended up using for the show. They were manipulating the audience to get the biggest bang out of their eventual pregnancy announcement. 

I just wonder why they waited until four months later to release that interview? Benessa's, JinJer's and Joy's were released months ago, during the actual run of the show. 
 

[Carm_88]

Of course Israel is trying to get what he wants, he's a kid. The only thing that they know is what they like and don't like. It is manipulative but it's also cute. You know what good parents do? They teach their kids the right way to get what they want. They give their toddler a little task and that gets them the treat that they want. You teach them good work ethic. Oh wait, Derek doesn't work, knows nothing...never mind forgot who I was talking about. 

[RosyDaisy]

A toddler manipulative? WTH?? Toddlers are innocents, they don't understand right and wrong. Derick needs to re-read what Jesus said about children.

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

"...It is common here in our area for people to focus on the suffering of Jesus and lose sight of the hope that we can have through salvation because Jesus rose again."

if they are focusing on Jesus at all, then they are Christians - they just aren't your kind of Christians. stop trying to help Catholics find Jesus - They already know where he is. Ffs . 

[SeekingAdventure]

16 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

And for the record, I wish people would just stop assuming Jill doesn't love her children as much as Jessa loves her's. They obviously have different parenting styles and their children may have very different personalities. If Jill were living close to TTH and had regular access to free childcare, then she might have time to post more adorable photos and videos of Izzy or the progression of her latest pregnancy too. As is, she's very far away from regular help and is likely taking on the majority of care for Izzy.

(And I have nothing against parents having help by the way. I just think it's unfair to compare Jessa and Jill as parents when the circumstances are vastly different.)

 

Well, I never wanted to say that Jill loves her children less than Jessa, if it came across like that I seriously need to reread my last post. I was merely refering to the fact that while Jessa seems to be happy about being a mother and spending time with her kids, Jill seems miserable. This doesn't have anything to do with how much she loves her children, I think it is mere circumstances. Jill, IMO, has, like some people already speculated, and I am only speculating myself, Post Partum. The fact that Derrick is just a complete idiot and has done a 180 degree since they met, which is only a few years ago (how scary is that) certainly does not help, neither does their culture about being submissive to an complete idiot.

 

And yeah, their parenting styles are different, and I think if Jill could do what she wanted to do, she wouldn't be in El Salvador either, because clearly its not her happy place...

 

And as far as feeling sorry for all of them, I completely agree. Since I never have been in a situation like that, it would be easy for me to say that now, as adults, they can turn away, but I imagine it is a lot harder if everyone you know and love is still in the cult. So I'm not gonna dream about that.

 

As for the article. I'm glad they decide to fly home for the birth, hopefully they don't fly united

and 'Human Nature is still there' - Derrick, are you hoping it will be gone at some point? it seems he doesn't have a lot left, but thats a harsh thing to say or wish for a 2 year old..

[ophelia]

9 hours ago, twinmama said:

A new virgin birth!!!

I just choked on my green tea!!!

15 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

I'm sensing shades of Voddie Baucham in Derick's "human nature" bit. Creepy.

I had the same feeling!! Voddie Baucham is a vile person who should not have kids!! He makes me really mad!

 

About which video is everybody talking BTW? I not really into the Duggars right now and just check this threads here from time to time,

[nastyhobbitses]

17 hours ago, Cassia said:

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

So according to the article, little 2 year old Israel is working on his manners but has mastered manipulation already.

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

It literally made me squirm to hear Derick label Izzy as very manipulative. I know nothing about him as father but I hope that he is gentle and patient and loving with his children. I hope that Jill is on board with his parenting style. I would not be ok with my husband publicly declaring our toddler as very manipulative...

Nobody wins when you declare war on a 2 year old over his (supposedly) sinful nature.

edit: Derick didn't use the term sinful nature.

That kid's gonna have so many issues. Not just the cult, but his dad seems to think that expressions of affection are just a selfish means to an end. Tells you a lot about the marriage, IMO.

Now, on the other hand, two-year-olds can be sneaky and crafty as fuck. They're incredibly good at pushing adults' buttons and figuring out ways to get what they want. Although I do think that Derick is speaking Pearl-ese and is parroting that line about how children are evil manipulative emotional terrorists who have to have their personalities beaten out of them, I think it would be normal to say "yup, my two-year-old has figured out that saying 'I love you' is a good way to butter me up" if it wasn't coming out of a guy who married an uneducated, eager-to-please girl-woman and dragged her pregnant ass to a country she clearly hates living in because of his white savior complex.

[eleanora3]

9 hours ago, marmalade said:

This part (lifted from their blog post from Monday) pissed me off so much. Guess what Derick? We ALL have "human nature. Even you, you sanctimonious asshole. It comes part and parcel with being HUMAN. Even YOU are a sinner, believe it or not! Words cannot express myutter disdain for Derick Dullard. 

As for manipulation? That TLC interview was done in conjuntion with the promo photoshoot for last season's run, sometime in January. That means Jilly Muffin and Derick were manipulating the audience into believing she wasn't pregnant in that interview, even though she was probably 12ish weeks gone. Derick also hid Jill's midriff in the promo shot they ended up using for the show. They were manipulating the audience to get the biggest bang out of their eventual pregnancy announcement. 

I just wonder why they waited until four months later to release that interview? Benessa's, JinJer's and Joy's were released months ago, during the actual run of the show. 
 

They actually made their pregnancy announcement the day of that interview (same outfits) so I don't think they were trying to hide it. Unless they didn't know when the interview would be released and there was a possibility it would come out before they made the announcement..

[BabyBottlePop]

9 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

A toddler manipulative? WTH?? Toddlers are innocents, they don't understand right and wrong. Derick needs to re-read what Jesus said about children.

I think it's telling that they are suspicious of their 2 year old child's love. It's just like how JB and Michelle raised their kid to live a certain way yet didn't trust any of them to follow any of those tenants without buddies and constant supervision. Rediculous. 

If the parent in question wasn't the wonderful favorite Jill I would almost think it was a reaction to angry feelings towards her childhood. Like, "I was forced to love and obey you, now I'm suspicious my child feels the same way." 

Let me know if this doesn't make sense. I'll try to clarify.

[bal maiden]

Suspicious or their child's love, or just have no idea of realistic expectations of a 2yo's development! He's probably just using the tools at his disposal to get what he wants, like any little kid. 2 year olds aren't fucking manipulative, but if it feels like Izzy is, then perhaps Jill and Derick should take a good look at how they're teaching him to behave, and what kind of behaviours they are modelling. 

[ophelia]

21 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

Suspicious or their child's love, or just have no idea of realistic expectations of a 2yo's development! He's probably just using the tools at his disposal to get what he wants, like any little kid. 2 year olds aren't fucking manipulative, but if it feels like Izzy is, then perhaps Jill and Derick should take a good look at how they're teaching him to behave, and what kind of behaviours they are modelling. 

Yes, they definitely should do that, but that would require that the Dullards was able to think for themselves and I just don't see that happening. Poor baby!

[Bad Wolf]

I noticed that Israel was front hugging his friend. That's a!lowed now? When does it become forbidden, at puberty?