Dillards 29 - Teaching Them to Make Piñatas

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

But those pancakes, tho...

Shrove Tuesday Pancake Suppers? Yep. Yum!

[PainfullyAware]

I spent an amazing semester in East Africa during university. It was very common to be invited to the local church in the communities we stayed in as a gesture of hospitality. I personally found the drumming and singing that was found in many local churches to be a more uplifting experience than attending a staid older Protestant (albeit progressive) church in Canada, as a kid. 

I encountered a group of 15 yr old missionaries in Rwanda and had to laugh. I'd never encountered more enthusiastic Evangelical congregations than in many local East African communities. The Rwandans had much to teach the American missionary kids but I'm not sure they learned or listened, with their eurocentrism and white man's burden colonial crap. We attended an English pentacostal service and it was honouring a visit from some Canadian pastors. A white Aussie girl told the Rwandan congregation about how faith could geal trauma based on her story back in Australia. It was horrifying that she was lecturing people who have endured genocide. This woman herself had been through some difficult times but it didn't give her any right to "teach" people as an "expert". Ugh the whole missionary thing is just so colonial, racist and wrong.

[Cleopatra7]

On 4/21/2017 at 11:44 PM, metheglyn said:

It occurs to me that Jill and Derrick were in El Salvador through the whole of Holy Week, which is, of course, a whole progression through suffering and death, to resurrection. As in, by Maundy Thursday into Good Friday and Holy Saturday, yes, there's supposed to be a focus on the suffering and death part of sacrifice for those left behind. It's not about losing hope during that period, it's about thinking about and reflecting on the sacrifice part and THEN rejoicing on Easter AFTER the resurrection.  Expecting happiness and joy about the resurrection during the earlier parts of Holy Week, or even during Lent as a whole, in a majority Catholic country is absurd. NOW we're in the Easter season and the religious calendar focuses on the joy part. But being upset about a lack of joyful celebration of the resurrection during certain parts of the liturgical calendar really highlights for me how little Jill (and Derrick) understand about cultural Catholicism. 

American religion in general and American low Protestantism in particular is very much a whitewashed affair: no crucifixes, no statues, no relics, no visible reminders of the humanity of Christ. This is largely due to the influence of the Reformation, which wanted to remove anything that smacked of magic and superstition, which eliminated the Marian cults, relics, and bleeding Eucharist miracles. This move also had the added effect of eliminating those aspects that really brought it home that Christ was a human with all that entails. It's quite easy to mock relics like the Foreskin of Jesus of vials of Mary's breastmilk, but such things helped make the Christ story real in a pre-literate era. If you go to a Spanish Baroque church, you'll see really graphic paintings and crucifixes that have a dead and bleeding Jesus turning green that shock Anglophone sensibilities, because the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Jesus died  (in a very bloodless, dignified way, of course) so men might become proper gentlemen. Or for Gothardites, clean-cut Republicans. In fact, there are medieval paintings of Jesus lactating and the lance wound in his side that looks an awful lot like a  like a vagina:

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=imwjournal

http://cargocollective.com/lizlorenz/writing-1/Christ-s-Womanly-Wounds

Gothardism is a variant of prosperity gospel, in the sense that it promises followers health and wealth if they follow Gothard's handouts. In a prosperity gospel worldview, there's no room for suffering and death, not even Jesus's, because it goes against the idea that being faithful to god naturally leads to material benefits, and if you are suffering, it's your own fault.

[IrishCarrie]

For Catholics, the message of Easter is a message of hope.

No matter how awful your today is (Good Friday), have faith that things will get better, that you'll rise again and life will be beautiful (Easter Sunday).

I'm as lapsed a Catholic as makes no difference, but when I'm going through awful, horrible, grieving times (and there's been a bit of that lately...) I still hear the little voice in my head saying 'This is your Good Friday. But take deep breaths and hang in there, because Easter Sunday will come'.

Jilly Muffin is a cretin. 

[jozina]

5 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

American religion in general and American low Protestantism in particular is very much a whitewashed affair: no crucifixes, no statues, no relics, no visible reminders of the humanity of Christ. This is largely due to the influence of the Reformation, which wanted to remove anything that smacked of magic and superstition, which eliminated the Marian cults, relics, and bleeding Eucharist miracles. This move also had the added effect of eliminating those aspects that really brought it home that Christ was a human with all that entails. It's quite easy to mock relics like the Foreskin of Jesus of vials of Mary's breastmilk, but such things helped make the Christ story real in a pre-literate era. If you go to a Spanish Baroque church, you'll see really graphic paintings and crucifixes that have a dead and bleeding Jesus turning green that shock Anglophone sensibilities, because the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Jesus died  (in a very bloodless, dignified way, of course) so men might become proper gentlemen. Or for Gothardites, clean-cut Republicans.

Protestant Anglophone sensibilities, but not Catholic Anglophone sensibilities.  I'm from English speaking Catholics on both sides and the blood, statues, relics and gore of it all is definitely still part of it.

[Smash!]

I actually feel bad for Jill. I'm sure she envisioned her life with Derick differently. I mean it's easy to show a completely different side of you as long as you're courting. You want to convince your girl that you're a good guy. And you have chaperones, you're never alone with her. But after you're married you have her. So now you can show your true face. Because she can't escape [emoji35]
It's likely that it went that way.

[nastyhobbitses]

7 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

This kind of Euro centric is prevalent in the Jewish community as well. Jews of color are all over the world, but don't tell that to that to main line American Jews. Sound harsh from me? Yes I suppose.  I've known for a long time about the diaspora. Jewish communities (all be it small) in China, Ethiopia, Central and South America and so forth. Although my personal exposure had been limited, I didn't think that a Jew of Color was odd or strange.  

Then I became a mom and my daughter is a Jew of color.  Through a cousin I found out about http://www.jewishmultiracialnetwork.org/.   I've been to a few of their gatherings and learned so much. As non white Jews, many experienced the most racism from white Jews.  "Are you really Jewish"?  "When did you convert"? "You must be adopted right"?  Just a few of the really rude comments. If they were white the people asking these questions wouldn't even think to question their Jewishness. 

There is a hierarchy in every group. Pisses me off.

I used to work for an organization that aided Jewish communities in India, Uganda, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, China, and El Salvador, and led initiatives in the US to connect those communities to Jews in the US and Canada. It shocked me how few people were aware that the diaspora goes well beyond Ashkenazim and Sephardim, and while there was no shortage of people who were excited to learn about Kaifeng Jews or the Abayudaya Jews and were eager to forge connections with those communities and share traditions (we joked that we should ask the community in Kaifeng what they eat on Christmas because Chinese food is just food to them), there were also people who seemed to treat them like how Jill treats Salvadoran Christians: oh, you poor benighted people who aren't really Jewish. It was very frustrating.

[Cassia]

I sense a lot of anxiety in Jill. The only mission work that she knew of were missioncations with SOS - surrounded my family members and group leaders who told her where to go, what to do, who to speak with, what to say...

Going on  fun, week-long missions as a teenager surrounded by friends and family and then saying that you want to be a missionary is kind of like declaring that you won't use any birth control and want to have a billion kids before you've even had sex or experienced your first pregnancy or had your first child.

 

[actuallyjessica]

3 hours ago, Smash! said:

I actually feel bad for Jill. I'm sure she envisioned her life with Derick differently. I mean it's easy to show a completely different side of you as long as you're courting. You want to convince your girl that you're a good guy. And you have chaperones, you're never alone with her. But after you're married you have her. So now you can show your true face. Because she can't escape
It's likely that it went that way.

interesting perspective. i'd always figured that this was the side of derick that she was attracted to. perhaps you're right - maybe she doesn't like it and this is why she is unhappy. the timelines seem to match up.

i think if their lives were like they were during the courtship/engagement, they'd still be happy. but nope, derick is just falling further and further down the hole and dragging his family with him.

[Four is Enough]

11 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I was raised Catholic and I have never heard of Tenebrae. Maybe I should Google it. 

In my Catholic churches, Tenebrae is simply called "Good Friday Observance".

9 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

American religion in general and American low Protestantism in particular is very much a whitewashed affair: no crucifixes, no statues, no relics, no visible reminders of the humanity of Christ. This is largely due to the influence of the Reformation, which wanted to remove anything that smacked of magic and superstition, which eliminated the Marian cults, relics, and bleeding Eucharist miracles. This move also had the added effect of eliminating those aspects that really brought it home that Christ was a human with all that entails. It's quite easy to mock relics like the Foreskin of Jesus of vials of Mary's breastmilk, but such things helped make the Christ story real in a pre-literate era. If you go to a Spanish Baroque church, you'll see really graphic paintings and crucifixes that have a dead and bleeding Jesus turning green that shock Anglophone sensibilities, because the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Jesus died  (in a very bloodless, dignified way, of course) so men might become proper gentlemen. 

Catholicism is very much a blood religion. Back in the day, when most people were not literate, the stained glass windows, gory statues showing bleeding, beheaded saints, saints on roasting gridirons, crucifixions.. were not items to worship in themselves, but to bring to life the suffering and trials of Jesus and the saints. They were illustrations, as it were.

I'm lucky enough to live near the Walters Art Gallery in Baltimore, MD. They have an incredible medieval collection, including a wonderful carved altarpiece showing the crucifixion. It's gilded, of course, but it is such an incredible depiction of real people (the artist must have been carving from real life.. one can look upon that for hours and meditate.

I wish I could make this bigger. It is simply amazing..

[singsingsing]

I think Jill really believed that she wanted to be a missionary, and she was attracted to Derick because he shared that interest. I even thought they were a good match back in the day because of that. But, in my opinion, it's become increasingly clear that Jill is not happy with this lifestyle. I think her vision of mission work and reality turned out to be two very different things. But now she's stuck. I also sense a lot of anxiety from her, and depression (not diagnosing her with a mental illness here, I'm talking about mood states, not necessarily anything more than that). She used to be so peppy and cheerful, and now she seems so deflated and sad. I really think that if she could live in Arkansas near her family, do her midwifery stuff part time, volunteer with her church and/or some local ministries, and maybe go on a missioncation for a couple weeks every year, she would be happy. But it's not up to her, it's up to her headship, and her headship is a restless zealot with a white savior complex, and also really a jerk.

[gustava]

5 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

But it's not up to her, it's up to her headship, and her headship is a restless zealot with a white savior complex, and also really a jerk.

Jill was absolutely complicit in the missionary goal.  She got what her father told her she wanted. 

[singsingsing]

6 minutes ago, gustava said:

Jill was absolutely complicit in the missionary goal.  She got what her father told her she wanted. 

She's been thoroughly brainwashed to believe that she has no agency in the matter. Her husband leads, she follows. She thought she wanted this. If she now feels differently, it doesn't matter, because Derick wants it, and therefore God wants it. Now she has to suck it up and follow the same advice she gave her sisters: be content where she is.

[2manyKidzzz]

As far as the missionary stint, Jill has been defrauded. MIssioncations are not real experiences of life in SCA. And it might be okay but for care of Izzy and then the new Blessing. She is stuck at home with cougars and bugs and shower racks and life is not what she knew.

She lived in a huge home, (TTH) and had all that she wanted or needed, access to many vehicles and pretend responsibilities....nothing she probably couldn't pass of on another J'Slave. 

So she was defrauded. And will be forever it seems. Derick has in my mind turned into a real pain in the ass. 

[nst]

39 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

She's been thoroughly brainwashed to believe that she has no agency in the matter. Her husband leads, she follows. She thought she wanted this. If she now feels differently, it doesn't matter, because Derick wants it, and therefore God wants it. Now she has to suck it up and follow the same advice she gave her sisters: be content where she is.

and the laugh would be she is the most un content one of all 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

She's been thoroughly brainwashed to believe that she has no agency in the matter. Her husband leads, she follows. She thought she wanted this. If she now feels differently, it doesn't matter, because Derick wants it, and therefore God wants it. Now she has to suck it up and follow the same advice she gave her sisters: be content where she is.

This is most likely the main factor in all her perceived sadness, she is trying to pray away her discontent and can't figure out why it isn't working because she doesn't have the skill set to figure out that her parents sold her a load of shit and that she has the right to stand up and say Derick I hate this I want to go home.  She assumed she would married a Godly man she would have babies and she would just be happy. That isn't how life works most of us know this, and realize we have to stop in and our life one we want to live. 

[sawasdee]

It appears many Jews have not heard of the airlift of Ethiopian Jews to Israel.

Tenebrae - Catholic here too , and we certainly had a service that resembled it. All statues except the Crucufix were covered for Lent, and the Crucifix covered after the Good Friday afternoon service - it was always covered at 3.00pm.

Midnight Mass on Saturday night started in the church hall, with the blessing of the Paschal  Candle. Then we walked in procession into a pitch black church, with only the Paschal Candle as light. As the Mass began, candles were distributed, and as we got to the Offertory, the light from the Paschal Candle was passed down the rows, the covers were torn off the statues and Crucifix, and all the altar boys rang hand bells to celebrate the Risen Christ.

It was dramatic, theatrical, and very moving.

It was also before Vatican II, and since I've never been to a service since, I don't know what happens now.

ETA I was in the choir, and we always sang Terry's Mass in C for Easter - very joyful! Especially the Benedictus.....Whereas Good Friday had that horrible Agios o Theos...

[SassyPants]

5 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I think Jill really believed that she wanted to be a missionary, and she was attracted to Derick because he shared that interest. I even thought they were a good match back in the day because of that. But, in my opinion, it's become increasingly clear that Jill is not happy with this lifestyle. I think her vision of mission work and reality turned out to be two very different things. But now she's stuck. I also sense a lot of anxiety from her, and depression (not diagnosing her with a mental illness here, I'm talking about mood states, not necessarily anything more than that). She used to be so peppy and cheerful, and now she seems so deflated and sad. I really think that if she could live in Arkansas near her family, do her midwifery stuff part time, volunteer with her church and/or some local ministries, and maybe go on a missioncation for a couple weeks every year, she would be happy. But it's not up to her, it's up to her headship, and her headship is a restless zealot with a white savior complex, and also really a jerk.

While I agree with most of your comment^, I wonder why Jill pushed so hard for Derick to end his WM job? She clearly wasn't happy with that arrangement either. I wonder if she envies Jessa who has all the perks and an at-home spouse too?

I wonder how much she misses her previous life...living in the Mcmansion, the WM income and benefits, all the comforts, and the TTH the next town over?

[Four is Enough]

I think Jill is terrified of being "alone", meaning someone who would "guide" her not in the house/car with her at all times. That's, to me, why she was so clingy when Derrick was at WM. She didn't have someone to "get counsel" from 24/7.

 

[Kittikatz]

@onekidanddone don't get me started on the heirarchy/racism in Judasim. Every time I've gone into a mainline shul, I've been met with "you don't look Jewish", "who are your parents?", "Are you adopted?" "Is that your real hair?"

I got so sick of being marginalised by my own people that I stopped even trying to be part of that community. It's lonley, and some days i miss the close religious community I grew up in, but they are way too restrictive for me...

It's sad, but there are a lot of people with their heads stuffed so far up their butts that the idea that someone may look different or practice their beliefs differently does not make them lesser is just incomprehensible.

[feministxtian]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Jill didn't know what SHE wanted. She'd been told her entire life that her highest calling was to be a wife and mother...that's it. She got "sold" to a guy who was some half-baked missionary because she said she liked mission work. However, Jill never got the chance to know herself. She had no option to go to school, go off on her own, take time to figure out what she wanted, dream about something besides what her parents told her she wanted. She never had a minute alone. She was NEVER alone. If she wanted to go out, she had to take an "accountability partner" with her. IF she said something other than the Jboobhovah party line, she got slapped down (literally or figuratively). She set herself up as the "perfect" daughter, the tattle-tale, the one who told Jinger that she would have to be content with whatever the Lord saw fit to give her...now she's having to eat her words. 

I wouldn't doubt she's dealing with some depression, and anxiety from having to be a grown up instead of a perpetual child. Her parents did her and her siblings a disservice by not letting them grow up.

[nastyhobbitses]

13 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I think Jill is terrified of being "alone", meaning someone who would "guide" her not in the house/car with her at all times. That's, to me, why she was so clingy when Derrick was at WM. She didn't have someone to "get counsel" from 24/7.

 

I think it's that, and that she's been taught to think that when she gets married, everything will just magically fall into place, and she'll magically become an adult able to handle all the responsibilities of adulthood and having 19 kids just like her mom did.

But her parents graduated high school, and spent three years both working before they had her asshole pig of an older brother. They had some time to figure out the nuts and bolts of being adults. Jill went from sitting around at home surrounded by her siblings, not allowed to be by herself except to poop and shower, not able to make any independent financial/life decisions, not allowed or expected to be a sexual being of any kind, and living like an overgrown twelve-year-old who's been unhealthily parentified in more ways than one, to a Godly Wife who's now fully equipped to have sex, take on the responsibilities of married life, and have children.

Jill thought that if she played by the rules, everything would turn out great. But her parents are duplicitous hucksters who, like any good televangelist, sold her only scams and lies while taking everything from her: her childhood, her innocence, her freedom to choose her own life.

[VelociRapture]

I absolutely agree her parents shoulder a great deal of blame for how Jill, and the other children, have floundered as adults.

But there comes a point where personal responsibility kicks in and you can't keep blaming your parents forever. Yes, Jill's choices were extremely limited - but she still made them. She chose to marry Derick. She chose to have unprotected sex. She chose to become a mother and she is continuing to chose to live in dangerous Central America. Just like Tabitha Paine chose to marry a rapist. Or Anna Duggar chose to have a fifth child with her douchebag of a husband. Jill and the others may not think they have a choice in many of those things due to their abusive upbringings - but the choices are still there. 

Jill is rapidly approaching the point - if she hasn't already reached it - where simply blaming her parents won't fly anymore. I think we should always remember how much of a disservice her parents have done her and we should sympathize with that, but let's not forget that she also bears blame for the way her life has turned out and the damage she could possibly inflict on innocent people (like the people of El Salvador or her children.)

[nst]

17 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I think Jill is terrified of being "alone", meaning someone who would "guide" her not in the house/car with her at all times. That's, to me, why she was so clingy when Derrick was at WM. She didn't have someone to "get counsel" from 24/7.

 

and that is because JB and Michelle never stopped to realize that these precious children would become adults. 

they always just had the baby and never had the thought that the precious children would become adults.  

[socalrules]

i agree that, at some point, the responsibility is on Jill, not her parents. She had been married three years and lived much of it out of the country. She now has new experiences, facts and knowledge of the world. She married a man whose life experiences were completely different than those she lived and she has likely heard all about them. Yet, she is still choosing to make decisions as though she left the TTH yesterday. She now knows there is more out there and more possibilities or herself and her children but appears she wants none of it. I don't think she wants anything other than to be under someone else's authority, preferably while living close to, if not in, the TTH. Jill has had a dangerous birth, lived through everyone knowing her brother molested her and has been obviously miserable being stuck in CA. Yet, she has done nothing to change her life based on those experiences. It's all on her now.

I think if Jill wanted to be back in Arkansas she could because, even with all their faults, I do not think her parents would force her back to CA when they didn't appear to be happy with her going anyway. She has made the choice to continue to play perfect missionary wife. It's on her now.