Dillards 29 - Teaching Them to Make Piñatas

[Swamptribe]

I'm afraid to look at the Dillard's pages.  What completely useless people.  Sitting here watching a show on PBS that is profiling an organization called ECHO.  Website is echonet.org.  They are missionaries but useful ones. Ironically the founders name was Dick Duggar..  Like that group that digs wells, wish I could remember their name. 

[2manyKidzzz]

@Swamptribe Completely Useless People. You have coined a phrase for use here I'm sure. Ho ho

[purjolok84]

This kind of Euro centric is prevalent in the Jewish community as well. Jews of color are all over the world, but don't tell that to that to main line American Jews.

As non white Jews, many experienced the most racism from white Jews.  "Are you really Jewish"?  "When did you convert"? "You must be adopted right"?  Just a few of the really rude comments. If they were white the people asking these questions wouldn't even think to question their Jewishness. 
There is a hierarchy in every group. Pisses me off.

There's an early South Park episode that addresses this - when Kyle takes Kenny to Jewbilee camp and the rabbis realise they have a camper who is Jewish and also Japanese (his name is Kuniichi). After an awkward pause one of the rabbi's asks Kuniichi to check on something outside and then locks the door behind him. Ironically they have no problem with Kenny being there until it comes out that he's not Jewish but they assumed that he was far more easily due to his appearance.

And they say South Park has nothing to offer but toilet jokes! But seriously I agree that while there are many things that are wonderful about the Jewish faith and culture, there are some who can be very racist and exclusive, and it just gives Judaism a bad image.

[nastyhobbitses]

On 4/24/2017 at 10:51 PM, onekidanddone said:

I deferentially agree people suck. My kid is 13 an  I've never had my daughter "converted".  When she was adopted she was terrified of having water poured on her head.   You can imagine how hard it was to give her a bath, let alone dunk her three times in a mikva.  I also found it offensive that I'd have to pay three Rabbis who I didn't even know and sit before them like some tribunal. I guessing she won't qualify for Birthright. Oh well.  The Jew-ish summer camp she goes to has a Israel trip for high school age kids.  She has been going to the camp for many years and nobody has ever asked if she was "really Jewish".  So that is good.

I am proud of my Jewish heritage, but have always felt abandoned and unwanted from the Jewish community. Started in Sunday school when my learning disability prevented me from keeping up with Hebrew. I could go on and on, but I think you understand.

I went to Jewish summer camp. Was told by other campers that I wasn't a real Jew because I have a very Anglo-Saxon last name (used to be a super Russian-Jewish one, but xenophobia and anti-Semitism forced a change) and a non-Biblical first name.

I felt left out and out of place in my very decidedly not Jewish hometown, and then the people who were supposed to be more like me decided I couldn't be one of them because my family had to fit into the Gentile world to survive.

[onekidanddone]

6 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I went to Jewish summer camp. Was told by other campers that I wasn't a real Jew because I have a very Anglo-Saxon last name (used to be a super Russian-Jewish one, but xenophobia and anti-Semitism forced a change) and a non-Biblical first name.

I felt left out and out of place in my very decidedly not Jewish hometown, and then the people who were supposed to be more like me decided I couldn't be one of them because my family had to fit into the Gentile world to survive.

I understand completely. The ice cold reception I received at the last shul I tried to go to was beyond Arctic. I was (at the time) a single mom. I didn't have a huge fuck ass home, and my used beat up car didn't compete with their shiny ones.   Yea, I know I should stop being so bitter.  It is just hard for me to let go of past hurts.

My kids summer camp, while sorta Jewish, is really a lefty-liberal kibbutz. It is almost secular except for they mix in in Hebrew words for things like the dining hall, cabins, and so on.  My brother's and sister's kids went to a camp under the same umbrella affiliation in another sate. My brother's  very Gentile blond blue eyed kids, and my Sister's girls of color never had any issues.  I understand how luck they and my daughter are. Aside from this group of camps, I think most Jewish camps are elitist.  A friend of mine sent her daughter to a Jewish camp. Her kid does not "look" Jewish, and the poor child called her mother the first week begging to come home.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

18 hours ago, Swamptribe said:

I'm afraid to look at the Dillard's pages.  What completely useless people.  Sitting here watching a show on PBS that is profiling an organization called ECHO.  Website is echonet.org.  They are missionaries but useful ones. Ironically the founders name was Dick Duggar..  Like that group that digs wells, wish I could remember their name. 

Dick Duggar, and they dig wells and such? My inner 12 year old is in hysterical laughing fits. What an appropriate name for his profession! I'll see myself to the prayer closet now. 

[kjmackin]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:04 PM, Kittikatz said:

@front hugs > duggs @onekidanddone thanks so much for your kind words. I live in a place with a very small active Jewish community, and the vast majority of those are Conservative or Orthodox Ashkenazim who seem ill equipped or inclined to accept anyone different. My home community is even more extreme in many of their beliefs (hence my escape), but they were much more accepting of people from different backgrounds or traditions (as long as they towed the Rabbi's line publicly). I will check out the link you sent me - I'm dealing with some depression at the moment, and my beliefs are ossilatating all over the place, so I don't know that I feel up to new people or any kind of religion right now, but it's nice to know that there are groups out there that I might be welcomed in. 

As an aside, Birthright was a bloody nightmare for me. One of the questions on the application form asked if both sets of grandparents were Jewish, then followed with "if not, why _____" - how would I know why? I wasn't there, and they were all long dead (Best guess is my maternal Grandmother either had a thing for tall, muscular gingers or really wanted to go above and beyond in the field of pissing her father off, and figured marrying a Norwegian who practiced the old ways was good medal material, and don't even getting me started on the other side).  I couldn't even bing myself to try to fill out that form. So unwelcoming.

/endrant 

Anyway, sometimes people really suck. It makes me especially thankfully for the good ones out there 

Apart me kind of feel blessed that I haven't faced much criticism in my progress to convert to Judaism. I started down the process with a  Conservative branch in Ann Arbor and at least for me the community & the Rabbi was very welcoming. Although I did have to place a pause on the process because of schooling & distance ( @ university it would have been a 10 hour commute). For the first time in a while I been able to start up again and the current community I'm living in also been welcoming.  At least for me I found those two communities to be more acceptimg then the Baptist in the town of Oklahoma I was in. 

[ShadowCat]

Sorry if I'm going back tracking a little bit, I came to the table a little late and am still stuck in the Suffering/Resurrection pages. I'm sure that Jill and Derrick would find this whole idea blasphemous, but a few years ago, a village near my hometown put on a 24 hour play (I'm not even sure if that's the right word to describe what happened) of the passion of Jesus Christ. It ran from Holy Thursday to Good Friday afternoon and from the perspective of a non - Christian, it really moved me, and gave me a much deeper insight into what the fuss was all about. Much more than someone just telling me that Jesus died for our sins and that's that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U00Wy2sbHHE

Here's a quick trailer link for anyone who wants a gander at how we do things in Holy Catholic Ireland

(Edited, because I forgot the link)

[front hugs > duggs]

5 hours ago, kjmackin said:

Apart me kind of feel blessed that I haven't faced much criticism in my progress to convert to Judaism. I started down the process with a  Conservative branch in Ann Arbor and at least for me the community & the Rabbi was very welcoming. Although I did have to place a pause on the process because of schooling & distance ( @ university it would have been a 10 hour commute). For the first time in a while I been able to start up again and the current community I'm living in also been welcoming.  At least for me I found those two communities to be more acceptimg then the Baptist in the town of Oklahoma I was in. 

I've actually found (in my experience of course), converts are treated better by those stick-up-their-asses people that have a problem with someone like me for having a non-Jewish mother, or other FJ users for having blonde hair/blue eyes (someone Jewish in our family has that combo too!), or someone of a different race or ethnicity. I've actually been told by a conservative rabbi that I need to convert to really be Jewish.

All religions have their good and bad eggs, I'm certainly not bashing Judaism of any sect. It still honestly just baffles me that some Jews would rather be uptight and discriminatory instead of banding together to unite as a minority faith.

[Queen]

I have only one thing to say about all this. Free Izzy! 

[singsingsing]

So Jill and Derick should be returning to the States any minute now, right? Won't most airlines not let pregnant women fly after 36 weeks or so? She can't have more than 2 or 3 weeks till she hits that point, Though if her labour with Izzy is anything to go by, she'll wait till the last possible moment, then wait a while longer, ignore all medical advice, fly home in John-David's plane, suggest to the cameras that she might give birth in the plane, land in the States, labour for another two or three days, then be rushed to the hospital and act shocked when they tell her that she and the baby are in distress and she needs an emergency C-section.

^ I hope that's not what happens, obviously. My wish for Jill is that she has a very peaceful, uneventful, and SAFE delivery with the end result of a healthy mama and healthy baby.

[2manyKidzzz]

@singsingsing You forgot!! Of course Jeebus will protect them and they needn't worry. Giving birth in a plane might be exciting!!

[Incognito22]

Do you think this is why we don't have an actual due date?  I mean first pregnancy was pretty much broadcast daily .  Maybe they didn't want the bad press of pushing the limits with travel.  I do have an odd feeling about this pregnancy.  I hope I'm wrong.  

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

So Jill and Derick should be returning to the States any minute now, right? Won't most airlines not let pregnant women fly after 36 weeks or so? She can't have more than 2 or 3 weeks till she hits that point, Though if her labour with Izzy is anything to go by, she'll wait till the last possible moment, then wait a while longer, ignore all medical advice, fly home in John-David's plane, suggest to the cameras that she might give birth in the plane, land in the States, labour for another two or three days, then be rushed to the hospital and act shocked when they tell her that she and the baby are in distress and she needs an emergency C-section.

^ I hope that's not what happens, obviously. My wish for Jill is that she has a very peaceful, uneventful, and SAFE delivery with the end result of a healthy mama and healthy baby.

She's due sometime in July. Doctors recommend not flying after 36 weeks and many airlines won't really allow it for liability reasons. So they still have until the end of May to early June to get home. Possibly longer if she's due in late July.

 

40 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

Do you think this is why we don't have an actual due date?  I mean first pregnancy was pretty much broadcast daily .  Maybe they didn't want the bad press of pushing the limits with travel.  I do have an odd feeling about this pregnancy.  I hope I'm wrong.  

I think it's more because Jill got sick of the constant comments about her due date last time. She clearly said at the start that she had two dates in mind - the actual due date and a second date about ten days later. She knew enough to know most babies come within ten days of their due date, but a ton of people overlooked that and made fun of her for getting it wrong. She may have kept quiet to avoid that again.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

She's due sometime in July. Doctors recommend not flying after 36 weeks and many airlines won't really allow it for liability reasons. So they still have until the end of May to early June to get home. Possibly longer if she's due in late July.

True. I think the rational part of my brain just keeps telling me, "Yes, she's due in July, but there's no way she'd wait until she was right at the 36-week mark to fly home. She knows from experience that things don't always go as expected. Surely she'll want to give herself a buffer zone and give herself some time to settle back into life in the States before she gives birth." But the part of my brain that's been following the Duggars for years whispers, "She's going to wait till her due date and then go into labour in John David's plane somewhere over the Gulf of Mexico."

But seriously, I still think that Joy is getting married end of May / beginning of June, and I'd expect Jill to return for the wedding. Plus the fact that she said, "See you soon" on someone's birthday video a couple weeks ago. So despite my lack of confidence in the Dillards' rational decision making abilities, I still think they'll be back in the States within a month at the latest.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

True. I think the rational part of my brain just keeps telling me, "Yes, she's due in July, but there's no way she'd wait until she was right at the 36-week mark to fly home. She knows from experience that things don't always go as expected. Surely she'll want to give herself a buffer zone and give herself some time to settle back into life in the States before she gives birth." But the part of my brain that's been following the Duggars for years whispers, "She's going to wait till her due date and then go into labour in John David's plane somewhere over the Gulf of Mexico."

But seriously, I still think that Joy is getting married end of May / beginning of June, and I'd expect Jill to return for the wedding. Plus the fact that she said, "See you soon" on someone's birthday video a couple weeks ago. So despite my lack of confidence in the Dillards' rational decision making abilities, I still think they'll be back in the States within a month at the latest.

I hope so too. Pushing it to exactly 36 weeks may be allowed, but it's pretty risky in my opinion. I may just be saying that because my 34 week preemie is staring awkwardly at me right now though. 

And I agree that Joy's sacrifice on the altar of marriage will be sooner than later. Jill may be a lot of things, but I do think she genuinely loves her kids and I don't think she would want to miss her eldest child's wedding. 

[CorruptionInc.]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

True. I think the rational part of my brain just keeps telling me, "Yes, she's due in July, but there's no way she'd wait until she was right at the 36-week mark to fly home. She knows from experience that things don't always go as expected. Surely she'll want to give herself a buffer zone and give herself some time to settle back into life in the States before she gives birth." But the part of my brain that's been following the Duggars for years whispers, "She's going to wait till her due date and then go into labour in John David's plane somewhere over the Gulf of Mexico."

My brain somehow thinks that she would go "surely it can be concerning two times in a row!" and "God will surely bless me with the perfect birth this time!"

Not to mention her own mother had many different types of births and highlighted what can go wrong, but these are Duggars we are talking about.

[MadeItOut]

Of course we're forgetting that it's not her choice when they fly - she has to defer to the guy who clearly much prefers it down there and likely doesn't want to come home until they 'have to'.

Of course, the hope is he'd have more care and concern for his wife and kids. I'd like to think that, but he's too eerily similar to my first husband for me to want to trust him as far as I could throw him.

[marmalade]

We also have to consider Joy's wedding, which we know will not be held the last two weeks of June (Seewald speaking engagements, natch). I think that Jilly Muffin will use this excuse to come home sooner rather than later, probably two weeks prior to the Big Day, maybe even sooner to attend the shower. 

Any excuse to get out of Danger America, as far as she's concerned, is a good one. All things considered, I expect them to be stateside about 4 months, returning when Johosephat is about 3 months old, which is approximately when they first took Izzy. 

[Honeysuckle]

22 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

And I agree that Joy's sacrifice on the altar of marriage will be sooner than later. Jill may be a lot of things, but I do think she genuinely loves her kids and I don't think she would want to miss her eldest child's wedding. 

Oh you reminded me of something I was thinking about a few pages back! It was a snippet of discussion of how different Jill and Jessa's actual parenting styles are from how they acted with their buddies (as seen on TV). Jill who was more involved with hers doesn't seem to be as over the moon with Israel and Jessa who was a bit more standoffish is clearly in love with being a mom. I got to thinking that maybe all the emotional energy Jill invested in her buddy group is responsible for her being less outwardly excited about every milestone. I can forgive her a bit of a been-there done-that attitude, when basically Israel is Jill's fourth child, and Spurgeon is Jessa's first.

[Dandruff]

On 4/30/2017 at 11:42 AM, 2manyKidzzz said:

@singsingsing You forgot!! Of course Jeebus will protect them and they needn't worry. Giving birth in a plane might be exciting!!

And their prayers will reach Jesus that much quicker.

[karen77]

I'm sure we aren't getting the updates from Jill the same way because:

- It's number 2!, Life gets crazy with another kid.

- Less internet access

[nst]

7 minutes ago, karen77 said:

I'm sure we aren't getting the updates from Jill the same way because:

- It's number 2!, Life gets crazy with another kid.

- Less internet access

I think less internet access could be a reason.  We also don't know if she is calling her family less or more. 

 

[2manyKidzzz]

Let's see........if a baby is born in a plane, over the Gulf of Mexico what is listed on the birth certificate as place of birth......ha ha ha. I am bad. 

I hope Jill pays attention. In all seriousness. No bad news wanted. I'm ready to be rid of Derick. 

[onekidanddone]

On 4/27/2017 at 10:19 AM, front hugs > duggs said:

I've actually found (in my experience of course), converts are treated better by those stick-up-their-asses people that have a problem with someone like me for having a non-Jewish mother, or other FJ users for having blonde hair/blue eyes (someone Jewish in our family has that combo too!), or someone of a different race or ethnicity. I've actually been told by a conservative rabbi that I need to convert to really be Jewish.

All religions have their good and bad eggs, I'm certainly not bashing Judaism of any sect. It still honestly just baffles me that some Jews would rather be uptight and discriminatory instead of banding together to unite as a minority faith.

I wish I could 'up vote' your post more than once. I hate that you have gone though this.  Your Jewishness is not to be questioned by anyone.  If it is in your heart then you are Jewish, as far as I am concerned. No "conversion" needed. 

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Let's see........if a baby is born in a plane, over the Gulf of Mexico what is listed on the birth certificate as place of birth......ha ha ha. I am bad. 

I hope Jill pays attention. In all seriousness. No bad news wanted. I'm ready to be rid of Derick. 

Oh yea, Derick wash his damn hair and to take a hike.