Sarah Maxwell took a plane trip and Mary posts OCC

[jakesykora]

9 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

This! When everyone goes on about how great Duolingo is for learning languages I'm always feel like I'm missing out on something. That maybe there is a grammar rules part that I haven't found yet. It pisses me off.

I am apparently 20% fluent in french according to the app - I'm calling BS on that. Don't even ask me how to conjugate verbs, I'm at a loss. There is just not enough information to create a pattern. I need to be able to see all 6 forms at once for it to make sense to me (I, you, he/she, we, you, they).
I understand Duolingo could be helpful if you used it for practicing language skills that you know or just learnt, but I don't think it is a replacement for a decent language course.

To be honest I like memrise better than duolingo for vocab learning.
They would be better to get a 'dummies guide to" or a "teach yourself" book if they want to do language learning. Ooh or the FSI language courses.

After going through a ton of the Turkish (on Duolingo and then starting Memrise thinking maybe there was more there) - and wondering the same thing, and initially chalking it up to thinking there probably just wasn't a high enough demand in Turkish or something (waves to Foudeb - can't believe someone else on FJ Turkish also!) I finally learned that Duolingo DOES have notes and explanations, but for some lame reason they're only available on a computer and not on a mobile.

And even that I only learned after reading all the comments on answers and finally, after months, asking where in the world the "in the lesson" and "in the notes" people were referring to were hiding! 

So I printed what's there, have supplemented with a number of other sites on line, and have used Memrise daily for 6 months and am several dozen Turkish courses in there for more vocab, and it's helped fill in some of the lack of detail and grammar on the Turkish.

BTW, for anyone doing Duo who may not know, most of the languages have Memrise options for the Duo courses to practice the vocab in Memrise.

The Maxwells really should look at Memrise instead, IMO.

I think all 3 girls could find some other things that Steve would probably ok as far as other topics (aside from languages) that he'd probably deem 'practical' and thus acceptable!

[Jigsaw3]

I've used Duolingo for German for English speakers, and I am very grateful for a basic grounding in both German grammar and general grammatical principles. Duo does not explain very simple German sentence construction rules very well: for example, the verb must be the second element of every sentence in German (unless it's a question or super complicated.) If I hadn't already taken German at a university level, I would be completely bewildered. On the other hand, I wish Duolingo had been around as background reinforcement when I was learning German!

But I think you're giving the isolationist Maxwells too much credit when you suggest they use an online source for second languages. Whyever would they need to learn another language? Missionary son aside, none of them are likely to leave AMERICA! No second languages required! (And us Canadians always speak English, right?)

[note: I tried to look up the name of the Maxson with SE Asia missionary experience, but their about page is down. Website fail, Steve!]

[Paperplate]

3 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I've used Duolingo for German for English speakers, and I am very grateful for a basic grounding in both German grammar and general grammatical principles. Duo does not explain very simple German sentence construction rules very well: for example, the verb must be the second element of every sentence in German (unless it's a question or super complicated.) If I hadn't already taken German at a university level, I would be completely bewildered. On the other hand, I wish Duolingo had been around as background reinforcement when I was learning German!

But I think you're giving the isolationist Maxwells too much credit when you suggest they use an online source for second languages. Whyever would they need to learn another language? Missionary son aside, none of them are likely to leave AMERICA! No second languages required! (And us Canadians always speak English, right?)

[note: I tried to look up the name of the Maxson with SE Asia missionary experience, but their about page is down. Website fail, Steve!]

Well, America ≠ USA or even North America. There's also South America. They could be learning Portuguese or Quechua or ...!

I'm not holding my breath though. First things first: Mary could read a few (clean) YA novels to get a better understanding of language.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

After reading that post I was dumbstruck. I learned English mostly on my own as an adult and I don't consider myself nowhere near proficient. But I am 100% sure I can do a lot better than that. Maybe because I learned reading ebil Harry Potter .

 

Dear Teri and Steve,

the quality of the "education" you gifted your children with is abysmal. 

Signed an ESL learner that can write better than them.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/14/2016 at 5:30 PM, SolomonFundy said:

While I'm all for maintaining a high level of skepticism about anything reported by and from Maxhell, this seems about as clear as it gets. As evidenced by Mary's utterly abysmal efforts in describing the time she spent with her brother and Alyssa at the Operation Christmas Child center, the Maxspawn lack the grammatical sophistication necessary to pull off deliberate misdirection. They will fall all over themselves to document the movements of every person involved in a given trip or activity. Had Sarah traveled with a sibling (especially a brother), they would have been included in either the text or the photographs, even if it were merely by the use of "we" instead of "I".

All of that aside, there was an extraordinary amount of effort put into describing Sarah's connection to her host family and friend. Had this been a shared trip, there probably wouldn't have been such an emphasis on establishing her friend's relationship with the family. 

I absolutely disagree. Nothing shows up on that blog without a reason. Things are hidden, manipulated and twisted to serve what ever image Steve is seeking to portray with a particular post. Nearly all of the boys' businesses are secret - we have found Swift Otter and most of the stuff about John through our own detective work, for example. Steve basically lets the less suspicious public think all the Maxwells work together in family businesses. There was nary a mention of Steve's dad's funeral and they all attended except Joseph, who was proposing to Elissa. While I think she did travel alone, I am equally sure that the post about the Tiffany visit had a purpose, otherwise we would have heard nothing about it. And if that purpose meant leaving out chaperones, then they will be left out.

[blessalessi]

I'm not yet convinced that Sarah was alone when exploring those "nearby small towns", let alone that she flew alone.  The last time she flew, she was then also a fully fledged adult, but they still had a family meeting about it and STEVE chose Teri to be her companion for the trip.

 

What is clear to me is that:

1 Over time, Steve has become increasingly more restrictive about what his adult children may or may not do; and yet

2 In recent months, the blog has been written in such a way as to suggest that the "children" actually have more freedom than ever.

3 Coincidentally, the conference trips have all but dried up, and several family businesses seem to have failed.

 

Why might Steve do one thing but say another, I wonder? 

[johnhugh]

1 hour ago, blessalessi said:

What is clear to me is that:

1 Over time, Steve has become increasingly more restrictive about what his adult children may or may not do; and yet

2 In recent months, the blog has been written in such a way as to suggest that the "children" actually have more freedom than ever.

3 Coincidentally, the conference trips have all but dried up, and several family businesses seem to have failed.

 

I agree, maybe Stevie has seen that with the tits2 brand drying up he needs to show that they are becoming less restrictive.

But as I said earlier in the thread, with the new 'freedoms' it appears that Stevie has granted John, Sarah has become 'ungrateful' again. Instead of making her repent about this on the blog (as what happened a few years ago), Stevie has granted her a puppy and what some would call a trip.

[Hane]

3 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

After reading that post I was dumbstruck. I learned English mostly on my own as an adult and I don't consider myself nowhere near proficient. But I am 100% sure I can do a lot better than that. Maybe because I learned reading ebil Harry Potter .

 

Dear Teri and Steve,

the quality of the "education" you gifted your children with is abysmal. 

Signed an ESL learner that can write better than them.

See--this is the trick! You learn to write well by reading good writing, and in Maxhell reading is all but forbidden. What one reads affects how one writes. In well-written mainstream fiction, for example, a reader picks up sound sentence structure, a seamless and logical flow of words, and a way to capture idiomatic dialogue. All of this happens by osmosis. 

However, well-written mainstream fiction isn't exclusively about JESUS JESUS JESUS, and might just contain shocking ideas that run counter to Stevehovah's.

(Fun fact: My phone now autocompletes Stevehovah's name.)

[Sundaymorning]

Honestly, apart from having lessons at school, I learned most of my English by watching Full House, Friends and other series unsynchronized.

I'm appalled by how bad the Maxwell kidult's English is. What did they do all day long in home school? And couldn't they read wholesome, old-fashioned books, or are they also banned by Stevehova? Even ZsuZsu, who is one of the craziest in fundie-land, lets her children read pre-approved books they pick up at the local library.

[usmcmom]

My further cynical (and somewhat sinister) thoughts about Sarah's trip are a little crazy but here goes. 

Sarah said that the trip was planned "pre-Ellie."  I wonder if Steve was feeling greater and greater anxiety as the trip approached - worried that she might not actually return. His time reading here has surely fanned the flame of his paranoid thought process. He really wanted to prove to his detractors that his 34 years old daughter was independent, yet he was fearful; so he came up with an incentive for Sarah to come home and finally agreed to let Sarah get a dog. Ellie is Steve's fluffy little hostage and he will always use her to keep Sarah tethered to Maxhell.

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, johnhugh said:

I agree, maybe Stevie has seen that with the tits2 brand drying up he needs to show that they are becoming less restrictive.

But as I said earlier in the thread, with the new 'freedoms' it appears that Stevie has granted John, Sarah has become 'ungrateful' again. Instead of making her repent about this on the blog (as what happened a few years ago), Stevie has granted her a puppy and what some would call a trip.

ITA with blessalessi and JohnHugh about the probable duplicity on Steve's part.  But JohnHugh, I am not following how Sarah's "ungratefulness" would result in a puppy?   And I'm totally blanking on the repentance on the blog that Steve exacted from her.  Or wait, were you saying that Steve recognized her "ungratefulness" actually was a valid complaint against her restricted life and thus gave her a little gifty to mollify her?

Just had a thought about Steve permitting her to get Ellie so that he'd have a fluffy hostage: a dog blessedly lives about 15 years.  Way to go, Steve.  Sarah is now committed to MaxHQ 'til she's nearly 50, because, y'know, landlords don't accept big dogs!!

aurgh

[salex]

Let's just say I don't trust that we get anything other than a bloggers version of the Maxhell life.  The fact they were so coy about where John (was it John?  I can't tell any of these drones apart) went on his international excursion last year, and while it was portrayed as John traveling alone, we don't know if he was with a mission group, with another family member that was not featured, etc.  IT was portrayed as John on a trip on his own, but again, who knows. Who knows where he went, why or with whom.

Secondly, if there is a courtship in the works, as secretive as they have been, it may be that one of the single sons went along with Sarah to see Tiffany and Sarah is the chaperone.

The biggest thing is, I don't care what is going on in their lives.  I blog, occasionally, and I think most of what I write is boring as shit because I have high expectations of what good blogs should be and because I use a pen name, which adds distance between me and the audience... and because I'm purposely vague about what we do for a living because I have zero intention of clients ever finding my blog, even though I never write about them.  So, I think my blog suffers from a lack of authenticity even though I tell the truth just through an alias.  I don't write on it regularly.  I don't have many followers.  And yet, I think my boring, opaque blog is more interesting than the Maxwell's blog and likely more honest.

Steve and Terri have hobbled themselves and their offspring to the point of crippling them. They are barely fit to survive in fundie land. They are hard workers on make work projects. I suspect they are working on a next generation book by one of the sons on homeschooling, assuming Steve isn't so arrogant as to think his work would never need updating. (Oh, wait, what am I thinking)

I just don't believe any/much of what they post is the whole truth. 

[VodouDoll]

Teri's educational plan of making her children chug mindlessly through endless workbooks has obviously paid off. She must feel so great about herself when she reads her children's writing. Good job, Teri. The amount of effort and care you put into homeschooling is plain to all.

[salex]

27 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

ITA with blessalessi and JohnHugh about the probable duplicity on Steve's part.  But JohnHugh, I am not following how Sarah's "ungratefulness" would result in a puppy?   And I'm totally blanking on the repentance on the blog that Steve exacted from her.  Or wait, were you saying that Steve recognized her "ungratefulness" actually was a valid complaint against her restricted life and thus gave her a little gifty to mollify her?

Just had a thought about Steve permitting her to get Ellie so that he'd have a fluffy hostage: a dog blessedly lives about 15 years.  Way to go, Steve.  Sarah is now committed to MaxHQ 'til she's nearly 50, because, y'know, landlords don't accept big dogs!!

aurgh

Actually, in the KC area it is not that hard to find an apartment that has no weight limit on Dogs.  I googled and found this one immediately.  http://www.sovereignoverlandpark.com/  Often, small houses with yards to rent don't have restrictions either. 

 

 

[MamaJunebug]

19 minutes ago, salex said:

Actually, in the KC area it is not that hard to find an apartment that has no weight limit on Dogs.  I googled and found this one immediately.  http://www.sovereignoverlandpark.com/  Often, small houses with yards to rent don't have restrictions either. 

 

 

Truly!? You've made my day. 

Not that any Maxwell would deign to dwell in a place that wasn't owned clear and free. *snerk*

[freethemall]

One of the saddest sentences ever written on the Maxhell blog:

Quote

When the brothers get married, it’s rare to get to spend that much time one on one with them like that!

When the BROTHERS get married - not when one of the siblings gets married. Because of course, the sisters are all fated to stay home and clean ceiling fans for the rest of their adult lives.

Poor naive Mary, doesn't even know how wrong it sounds when she says stuff like "I would recommend doing either the older children or younger children....You might also consider doing older boys."

[kpmom]

I have a feeling Steve has gotten many comments on the lack of freedom his daughters have and these posts (Mary's trip, Sarah's trip, Sarah deciding to get Ellie) are responses to those comments.

Also, a FJer recently posted that she knew Sarah, or knew someone who knew Sarah, and that Sarah was planning a trip that *might* have to do with courting.  I wonder if she was referring to this trip?

I really think if there was a courtship possibility that Steve would definitely  be with her. 

Even just visiting a friend alone is a big deal (if she is alone) and I really wonder if Steve isn't lightening up just a little with Sarah.  Or Sarah, seeing her much younger brothers traveling, getting married, etc, it's dawning on her she has a right to a bit of a life too.

[gustava]

As a retired college English professor who taught composition, it was my experience that many "novice" writers write as they speak.  It may be that the writing of Mary and Sarah reflects the language they speak and hear.

[molecule]

4 minutes ago, gustava said:

As a retired college English professor who taught composition, it was my experience that many "novice" writers write as they speak.  It may be that the writing of Mary and Sarah reflects the language they speak and hear.

Current college comp professor here, and you are absolutely right. Of course, this doesn't provide good advertising for Making Great Conversationalists, does it?

[refugee]

On 2/14/2016 at 2:17 AM, Foudeb said:

Here's to hoping Sarah and Tiffany can encourage each other to leave the cult. Possibly together.

I imagine fleeing (even in a tiny way like getting paid employment outside the home) would be a lot easier with someone from the same cult background, ie who understands the difficulty of doing so.

Other theory: maybe John did something really outrageous like move out to live on his own for a while. Or start a business that isn't directly controlled by Steve. Or had two Pepsis in a row followed by three animal crackers. Maybe the puppy and the trips are Steve's way of limiting the risk of someone else following suit...

I remember reading a book written by someone who won one of VF's family film awards. I think they were English? Their daughter had struck up a friendship with a daughter of an American fundie family, and when that daughter expressed a desire to escape, they tried to help her. I don't remember how successful they were, but I do remember it was fraught with difficulty. 

I know from studying child development that there are certain "readiness" windows over the course of childhood during which specific learning takes place, and if those windows are skipped, it can be incredibly difficult to achieve that learning later on in life. (Think about those children in an orphanage, reported in the news some time ago, who spent most of their time confined to iron cribs, with little human interaction or stimulation.) 

I think that the Maxwells sound like they've deliberately stunted their children, whether or not they did it to what they thought was some noble end. (I know it was presented to us as a noble end, but I was such a readaholic, I couldn't bear to follow the lead of the super-righteous fundies who called make-believe, fairy tales, fictional picture books, and all things Disney and Dr. Seuss and "Berenstain Bears" evil. I could not bear to deprive my children of my own best friends, growing up -- books.) 

Even if they have the desire to break away, they may never learn to read for pleasure (elementary school -- and lots and lots of reading aloud together from exciting, thrilling, imagination stimulating books), to thoughtfully go through an editorial, either agreeing with or arguing against the writer's points (middle school or logic stage -- the trivium worked for us, in figuring out how best to tailor our kids' learning), to plan independent action, to make informed decisions and choices... (giving them chances to try their wings in a safe environment, allowing them to make choices we might not necessarily agree with, keeping the lines of communication open, with an eye to eventual independence).

On 2/14/2016 at 2:09 AM, Foudeb said:

That's an idea.

Hey Steve, why don't you have them study Greek or Hebrew? It could be -officially- to read the Bible in the original.

Unless of course they truly believe Jesus dictated the KJB himself and the real Bible is only a bit of Jewish propaganda or something. With these people any whacko theory is very much possible.

Good suggestion, learning grammar through learning a foreign language. *If* our public schools taught grammar, I certainly never noticed. I first learned grammar taking the required foreign language classes in high school.

On 2/14/2016 at 4:01 AM, Paperplate said:

(Fellow linguist here.)

While using Duolingo and the like can be a great introduction to a language and help with memorising vocabulary and phrases, it doesn't teach you grammar rules properly or prepares you to actually speak a language. Repeating phrases isn't speaking. (I've seen this approach used in class rooms as well – mainly in English-speaking countries where the study of foreign languages isn't the norm and in countries where the standard style of teaching is chalk and talk. It just doesn't lead to fluency in talking.)

And another point: I'm not sure whether this applies to Duolingo as well, but on other language apps/courses I saw that they just translate the lessons from one language into the other and call it a day. But learning Russian isn't like learning Spanish. It just doesn't work this way.

Back to the topic: Mary needs to learn English. And then it'd be great if she'd study a foreign language as well, even if it's just from an app. (In this day and age, it's super easy to find language tandem partners on the internet!)

I wanted to ask if Duolingo is a workable approach for learning some conversational language. I'm older, and my language window has mostly closed -- I learned two other languages relatively easily in my high school years, and a third with somewhat more difficulty in college, but my attempts in recent years with several more languages... sheesh, it's a lot of work.

But we have Russian neighbors, and the mom is about my age with lots of grown kids coming and going. She seems really nice, but she speaks almost no English and I speak maybe one or two Russian phrases. I'd really love to connect with her.

[mango_fandango]

OT, but I've now got an advert for a free NIV bible on FJ. Kinda ironic considering that most of the fundies we snark on here are KJV only!!

It's weird how so many homeschool fundies don't do any kind of language at all. We've seen that the Duggars do Spanish with Rosetta Stone (wasn't it on the show once, in a close up of Joy's schedule??) and I think the Shupe SOTDRT offers Spanish as an elective. But AFAIK "Flowing Streams Christian School" never offered a language. Also, why only Spanish? Why not French? I'm not even gonna suggest German cos I know how unpopular it is (yep, I study it). 

[refugee]

5 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

OT, but I've now got an advert for a free NIV bible on FJ. Kinda ironic considering that most of the fundies we snark on here are KJV only!!

It's weird how so many homeschool fundies don't do any kind of language at all. We've seen that the Duggars do Spanish with Rosetta Stone (wasn't it on the show once, in a close up of Joy's schedule??) and I think the Shupe SOTDRT offers Spanish as an elective. But AFAIK "Flowing Streams Christian School" never offered a language. Also, why only Spanish? Why not French? I'm not even gonna suggest German cos I know how unpopular it is (yep, I study it). 

You're a lot more likely to encounter Spanish in the US, than French or German. Although Russian is certainly gaining ground here, as well as Vietnamese and Thai.

[mango_fandango]

16 minutes ago, refugee said:

You're a lot more likely to encounter Spanish in the US, than French or German. Although Russian is certainly gaining ground here, as well as Vietnamese and Thai.

Yeah, that's true. Apparently the Shupes live in a fairly Hispanic area. Interesting about the Vietnamese and Thai!!

[Seven Severn]

3 hours ago, salex said:

Actually, in the KC area it is not that hard to find an apartment that has no weight limit on Dogs.  I googled and found this one immediately.  http://www.sovereignoverlandpark.com/  Often, small houses with yards to rent don't have restrictions either. 

 

 

Westport Central Apartments in midtown doesn't have a weight restriction either or if it it does people are violating it wantonly. I've seen Labs and Goldens in and out of there regularly. And the neighborhood couldn't be better -- six bus lines within a four-block radius and pretty much everything she'd need would be in easy walking distance anyway.

If I had the money I'd rent a studio apt. in that building to have on hold for any fundie woman that managed to physically get away from her family.

[Black Aliss]

8 hours ago, blessalessi said:

I'm not yet convinced that Sarah was alone when exploring those "nearby small towns", let alone that she flew alone. 

Didn't Sarah say the out of town jaunts were for doing research? Maybe she was puppy shopping. Maybe Ellie will be the star of the next book series.