Joshley Madison Pt 3: Storming Satan's Hidden Fortress

[from the bible belt]

Seriously? Christ on a cracker. That is insulting on so many levels.

You said it, i thought it

[browncoatslytherin]

I was referring to those who were saying they hoped it comes out that he got involved with a transgendered person and he didn't know or those who have said similar to that. Yes, he did wrong. Yes, he will have to pay for what he has done...but so is Anna.

ah. well, even so, i would wish that nothing more would come out. it's a very hurtful and overwhelming situation in and of itself, add in the brainwashing/indoctrination and the inability to think critically, and it just gets worse from there.

[joyous]

I would like to comment on this post from a Biblical point of view.

First, I would like to point out that in the Bible Jesus during His life did not get negative with people, but the one instance was the Pharisee's who were the Jewish Church leaders of that time. The ENTIRE reason that Jesus put them in their place was because they were hypocrites. The Bible talks about hypocrites and God hates that and liars (not occasional ones, but ones who do it frequently) because those are moral (heart) issues, with someone 'acting' one way and being totally another person underneath.

I don't think most of that family's prayers are sincere, but more self-serving. God cares about the heart above all things. The Bible calls the heart the eyes of the soul.

I think all of this 'be sweet' shit is bullshit and God doesn't want that. These people have so misrepresented God and it makes me want to scream.

Like others have said, I don't think Josh is sorry and EACH of their lives has been built on lies and being hypocrites. Until these people get their hearts and motivations right, it is not pleasing to God.

I really look at them (JB, DQ, Josh) and really don't know what faith that they have or see that faith. I think it is a smokescreen where they 'cover' for themselves with all this self righteous B.S. that is obnoxious as hell.

Sorry about the rant. I won't talk about faith or belief anymore, but had to say that this is not Godliness. Far from it.

Just popping in to say that I totally agree with you. I am not one to judge whether they are lost or not, but by their fruits, they are not following Christ. They think they are representing God, but all they are doing is giving true Christianity a bad name.

[luv2laugh]

Tony Perkins, Josh's boss at FRC, issues a statement to Christian Post

christianpost.com/news/frc-president-tony-perkins-says-josh-duggars-conduct-harms-the-cause-he-has-publicly-espoused-143319/

"Last night we learned from online reports about allegations concerning Josh Duggar and then read his confession today. We are grieved by Josh's conduct and the devastating impact of his pornography addiction and marital unfaithfulness," Perkins wrote. "Our hearts hurt for his family, and all those affected by Josh's actions."

Perkins continued by stating that Duggar and everyone else who advocates for traditional family morals should be held to a "higher standard."

"His deceitful behavior harms his family, his friends, his former coworkers, and the cause he has publicly espoused," Perkins asserted. "Those of us who advocate for family values in the public square are held to a higher standard, and Josh's failures serve as a painful reminder of the destructive effects of not living with integrity. We are praying for the family."

[NeverAFundie]

Count me in the camp that feels very, very sorry for Anna and exponentially sorrier for the M kids.

I was raised in a very liberal home by feminist parents. I am educated. And seven years ago, in my early 30s, found myself in a relationship with a recovering alcoholic. We married, I got pregnant, he relapsed. It took FIVE YEARS of escalating emotional and verbal abuse, much of it IN FRONT of my daughters from my first marriage and our son, for me to FINALLY work through the emotional mess and decide to leave. The children and I are moving out on August 31. (Side note: reading here over the past couple of years has played a big part in me reconnecting with my inner strength, so THANK YOU all!)

Never in a million trillion years would I have ever thought I would become a person who stayed in that kind of an environment. Who exposed her children to that. But I did. I can't even begin to imagine what it is like for those of you who grew up in fundie households and struggled to break free of that. Bottom line, I don't think Anna has the emotional or coping skills to even begin to process any of this in a healthy way, thanks to her upbringing. She may be a full grown adult, a mother, etc., but she has the emotional maturity of an adolescent. And that's by design of her cult.

[Buzzard]

My prediction on whats next for Smuggles:

AFTER all the women come forward, all the strip clubs he visited are found, all the dirty magazines are burned, and after about 8 months and one additional pregnancy:

Smug and Anna will write a book (meaning someone else will write a book and they'll claim it). It will be titled "The forgiveness of the Lamb - from porn to pulpit." It will detail his "struggles" from his youth to present day, how the world tempts even the most righteous and even attacks them and persecutes them more. It will include the Duggar plan which includes no birth control, no debt (no credit cards so you cant do shit like this), and (of course), sex EVERY NIGHT with your wife.

He will go on speaking tours, sign his books, preach at ATI "camps" designed for teh menz and boys who struggle with sexual sins... and rake in the bucks.

Anna will travel beside him, smiling. They'll continue to fill their quiver.

[LainieR]

Can we refrain from the Anna had an affair bullshit? I'd be horrified if that shit got picked up by the daily fail as the gospel truth. :shrug:

I want the person who comes forward to have been preop transgender! ..And that Joshie didn't know! :o

Oh Please!

Oh please!

:wtf:

[from the bible belt]

If any of this is true it just confirms what we all know....that she's a fucking brainwashed idiot. No further sympathy at all if she is choosing this going forward. None

And why not? It must be extremely difficult for her one way or another. Especially the blaming part which would probably be on her side of the table. It is not like she has many options at the moment.

If she has the strength to leave she knows by now how the press works, they will hunt her down like hell. She just had a baby in a very stressful time in her life.

Brainwashed yes, idiot? maybe not

[browncoatslytherin]

My prediction on whats next for Smuggles:

AFTER all the women come forward, all the strip clubs he visited are found, all the dirty magazines are burned, and after about 8 months and one additional pregnancy:

Smug and Anna will write a book (meaning someone else will write a book and they'll claim it). It will be titled "The forgiveness of the Lamb - from porn to pulpit." It will detail his "struggles" from his youth to present day, how the world tempts even the most righteous and even attacks them and persecutes them more. It will include the Duggar plan which includes no birth control, no debt (no credit cards so you cant do shit like this), and (of course), sex EVERY NIGHT with your wife.

He will go on speaking tours, sign his books, preach at ATI "camps" designed for teh menz and boys who struggle with sexual sins... and rake in the bucks.

Anna will travel beside him, smiling. They'll continue to fill their quiver.

sounds about right. shades of ted haggard when he started rebuilding his ministry after scandal.

[LouisvilleGirl]

I take a short vacation from the online world to visit with family, and what happens?? Another Josh crisis. :pink-shock:

I am amazed, appalled, and (in a schadenfreudenlich way) delighted. (It's been years since I studied German, so I'm not sure I made the adjective correctly from the noun. And if it's not a real adjective, it should be--it applies so well to me.)

Here's my comment (which, after doing a search, I don't think anyone has yet made): How on earth did Smuggar have TIME for all this? Think of what was involved for him:

First, he obviously spent a lot of time online. He had to learn about OK Cupid and Ashley Madison; he may have chosen them over other possible online cheating "options." He had to create his profiles. Then he had to deal with whatever replies he got--if he got any. (And I gather that some responses are real and some are invented, at least in the case of A.M.) I'm assuming he did get replies, at least on A.M.; that would explain why he maintained his membership and renewed it.

Then he had to decide which message(s) to reply to, and decide how to reply.

Then, assuming he and the responder were both interested, he had to meet with her. And unless she had the "lovenest" he was hoping for, he (and maybe she) had to arrange for a place to meet.

Then there are the actual meetings themselves, which I will not allow myself to imagine (since I think Smuggars is just as unattractive as his Howdy-Doody-Daddy). If he really likes "cuddles" and "foreplay", then each meeting will be longer than, say, five minutes. Let's say, a minimum of an hour(?). And he had to travel to and from them.

And maybe he did this repeatedly.

And he did this while he had two, then three young children, a wife whose whole world revolves around him, and a job that (even though he shares its morally repugnant goals and premises) seems to have been stressful, at least at the beginning, judging by what we saw in the early shows about their lives in DC.

How the heck did he manage to fit all this in to his life?

Knowing the family he comes from, I doubt that Smuggar is a model of good time management. So I'm baffled as to how he did it.

I had been thinking about this but didn't know how to explain it! Thanks so much for writing this so well, Analytica49

[Quivertool]

What is it with fundies and blaming Satan? Why can't they just take full responsibility for their actions? I was raised in a pretty religious household (not fundy, but strict Catholic). If my mom had caught me doing something wrong and I told her it was because I had Satan in my heart, she would have called BS and told me to own up to what I'd done.

They ALWAYS have a scapegoat, even if it's a weak one. :roll:

[browncoatslytherin]

What is it with fundies and blaming Satan? Why can't they just take full responsibility for their actions? I was raised in a pretty religious household (not fundy, but strict Catholic). If my mom had caught me doing something wrong and I told her it was because I had Satan in my heart, she would have called BS and told me to own up to what I'd done.

They ALWAYS have a scapegoat, even if it's a weak one. :roll:

yeah, it's funny how as a kid i couldn't use that as an excuse, but grown-ass adults can... :whistle:

[Cleopatra7]

And why not? It must be extremely difficult for her one way or another. Especially the blaming part which would probably be on her side of the table. It is not like she has many options at the moment.

If she has the strength to leave she knows by now how the press works, they will hunt her down like hell. She just had a baby in a very stressful time in her life.

Brainwashed yes, idiot? maybe not

I think Anna's a brainwashed idiot, because if these various "reports" are true, then she probably thinks that Josh strayed because she wasn't submissive enough, when his profiles indicate that he was interested in women who were the exact opposite of submissive. As the kids say, Josh just doesn't appear to be that into Anna, and there's nothing in her ATI upbringing that can solve this problem. As other posters have mentioned, ATI basically says that any Christian man can marry any Christian woman and have a successful marriage if they follow the rules and trust in god. This view doesn't take into account things like differing interests, sexual chemistry, clashing temperaments, etc. Anna probably thinks that if she debases herself further, Josh will be faithful, but I just don't see that happening. I would say she's living in a fool's paradise, but her current situation is more hell than paradise. All staying with Josh is going to accomplish is more innocent children being brought into a loveless marriage, and more emotional pain for Anna.

[3_and_counting]

What is it with fundies and blaming Satan? Why can't they just take full responsibility for their actions? I was raised in a pretty religious household (not fundy, but strict Catholic). If my mom had caught me doing something wrong and I told her it was because I had Satan in my heart, she would have called BS and told me to own up to what I'd done.

They ALWAYS have a scapegoat, even if it's a weak one. :roll:

Not all of us use "the devil made me do it". It is a cop-out and I was always taught to be responsible for my actions. We all have the ability to choose what we do or don't do.

[ElderPrice]

Ew. After checking out the alleged FB, I have a ton of mutal friends with his friends :/

[JenniferJuniper]

The OKC question about needing to have sex with someone before marrying - do you that people may now assume that him & Anna were intimate before the wedding and judge her?

In Anna's position, do you think it makes it better or worse that he turned to site like AM vs getting involved with one or more people from his daily life?

I don't believe for a second Anna slept with him before marriage.

As it's a profile, he may well have been telling a prospective "date" something he thought she'd want to hear (Dude's cheating on his wife, but he doesn't believe in sex before marriage?).

Or it could be an acknowledgement that he now understands that sexual compatibility is - for most people - an important part of a lifetime commitment.

[Elegant Mess]

More Joshley Madison Fallout:

I just checked the Ecclesia College Board of Regents website: Josh's name is now gone!

ecollege.edu/regents/

Now, back to snarking! :popcorn2:

[3_and_counting]

I don't believe for a second Anna slept with him before marriage.

As it's a profile, he may well have been telling a prospective "date" something he thought she'd want to hear (Dude's cheating on his wife, but he doesn't believe in sex before marriage?).

Or it could be an acknowledgement that he now understands that sexual compatibility is - for most people - an important part of a lifetime commitment.

I don't believe that you have to sleep with an individual before marriage. I think that having a strong friendship and bond before marriage is key. Sex won't always be there.

I think in Josh's case, he thought he was smart. He could do it and not get caught or have to answer to it. I don't think it had anything to do with his lack of anything other than respect for his wife. I think he's got an addiction issue. He needs professional help.

[martian]

I'd like to respectfully suggest that anybody who wants to wish plagues upon Josh Duggar should have at it, but please leave LGBTQ folk out of this hetero mess.

No transwoman deserves to wake up one morning to find out from the news that one of her lovers is a notorious hatemonger who probably views her as subhuman. How devastating. Nobody deserves that. Likewise, I seriously doubt that any gay man wants to find out that his fun-time fling is a virulent homophobe.

Can we just stick to hoping Joshley's little Madison falls off, pretty please, and leave other people out of the ill-wishing crossfire?

[JenniferJuniper]

I don't believe that you have to sleep with an individual before marriage. I think that having a strong friendship and bond before marriage is key. Sex won't always be there.

I think in Josh's case, he thought he was smart. He could do it and not get caught or have to answer to it. I don't think it had anything to do with his lack of anything other than respect for his wife. I think he's got an addiction issue. He needs professional help.

That's your personal feeling about the matter and it's perfectly valid.

Many people don't agree. I'm guessing Josh is now one of them.

[Cleopatra7]

More Joshley Madison Fallout:

I just checked the Ecclesia College Board of Regents website: Josh's name is now gone!

ecollege.edu/regents/

Now, back to snarking! :popcorn2:

Molest your sisters and another girl, not a problem, stay on board of regents. Sign up with a hook-up website, get your name purged and become a non-person. Yeah, I don't get this logic. As with VF, women and children appear to be last in fundieland.

[VelociRapture]

I attempted to catch up, but (as others have said) that's kind of impossible right now. Here are a few thoughts I've had based off some of the comments I've seen though:

1. I don't believe Anna is an idiot at all. She may be very naive about how the world works, but I think she honestly believes what her faith has taught her. Its very easy for us to sit here and judge her for staying or standing by her husband - its much more difficult to try and put ourselves in her shoes and try to understand what she may be thinking based off the way she was raised.

2. I highly doubt Anna had an affair herself. We know little about her, but what we do know points towards her being extremely faithful to her husband and children.

3. I also highly doubt that Anna was anything less than a true virgin when she married Josh. The comment regarding premarital sex likely was made for one of two reasons (as JenniferJuniper pointed out) - the first being because its what a prospective date would want to hear and the second being that he evolved his views on the issue since he married Anna; meaning, he now understands that sexual compatibility is an important aspect of a relationship and doesn't come naturally to every couple.

As for the person who made the comment regarding Transgendered people - I have a brother who is Transgender. What you said is absolutely disgusting. That is all I have to say on the matter, but I hope you think carefully before you post next time.

[from the bible belt]

I don't believe for a second Anna slept with him before marriage.

As it's a profile, he may well have been telling a prospective "date" something he thought she'd want to hear (Dude's cheating on his wife, but he doesn't believe in sex before marriage?).

Or it could be an acknowledgement that he now understands that sexual compatibility is - for most people - an important part of a lifetime commitment.

I know a lot of stories from within the bible belt here that there is a first born about 7/8 months born after marriage and the baby is 8 lbs. And the next is that weight at 40 weeks :shhh:

[Imrlgoddess]

Was going to add this in the "Have an Affair" topic:

When I saw this particular situation and when I think of Josh and Anna in general I think back to 15th Century Italian courtesans and their lovers. Specifically Veronica Franco and Marco Venier. They could not marry because she was not equal to his station. So he HAD to marry a woman he barely knew that was from the right family. She was pretty enough, sweet, and obedient. But she didn't have passion, she couldn't read, and she had no ideas of her own. She simply wanted to be an obedient wife. Yes perhaps he loved her, he respected her as his wife...but his deep love was for a courtesan. That is who he shared his deepest secrets and his bed with.

Anna came from the right family, she was the appropriate choice for the merging of two houses. She's pretty and obedient. She's a sweet girl, but she has no aspirations beyond that baby bed. Josh having been so heavily steeped in the kool-aide believed this was the "right thing" to do. I believe once those doors closed and he was out of JB's shadow...reality set in. All of the sudden he has access to the world and the world says "hey, you live in a bubble!". All of the sudden he realizes he can't talk politics with his wife and vanilla baby making sex is all it will ever be.

I think she holds a dear place with him because she is his wife, I believe he loves his children. But I think once those blinders cracked open just a little....it opened up a new world to him and confused the hell out of him.

I hope they both get out. I hope they find a counselor that can help them both. I hope they find out that birth control isn't bad, they stop at 4, she loosens up and things level out for them.

[FundieFarmer]

I second VR. I would also like to add that I would not mind if people put a hard stop on any comments wishing this situation would get worse. It's completely inappropriate, and says more about you as a poster than it does about Smugger & Co.