Joshley Madison Pt 3: Storming Satan's Hidden Fortress

[sophrosyne]

Ugh I commented on Susannas pic and said "I hope Anna and her kids gets away from this loser" and she replied "so do I but it doesn't look like that's happening"

Well done, crazysnark! You got us confirmation of the tabloid 'sources' that are saying Anna will stay.

[Mothership]

Fundy preachers (and possibly others) can get remarkably vulgar in their sermons -- Jack Schaap and his "polished shaft" sermon is an excellent example.

Absolutely. I belong to a progressive reformed denomination and I have heard pastors in this same denomination rant against the ordination of gays/lesbians because it was only the ordination vows with the specific admonition against sex outside of marriage that kept him from basically doing all the women in the sanctuary

Another pastor ranted against LGBTQ community by going on ad nauseum about anal warts.

They were both a step away from being Fred Phelps.

I have a point: I think JB carries on about sex and dry humping for the camera as a way of bragging, that is to say lying. I suspect that BV doesn't have sex once she's pregnant (which perhaps is the real reason that she enjoys the pregnancy experience so much).

In my limited experience, it seems that people who feel the need to talk about their sex life and, for that matter, how his/her spouse is better than anyone else's is usually trying to convince him/herself.

[twinmama]

Absolutely. I belong to a progressive reformed denomination and I have heard pastors in this same denomination rant against the ordination of gays/lesbians because it was only the ordination vows with the specific admonition against sex outside of marriage that kept him from basically doing all the women in the sanctuary

Another pastor ranted against LGBTQ community by going on ad nauseum about anal warts.

They were both a step away from being Fred Phelps.

I have a point: I think JB carries on about sex and dry humping for the camera as a way of bragging, that is to say lying. I suspect that BV doesn't have sex once she's pregnant (which perhaps is the real reason that she enjoys the pregnancy experience so much).

In my limited experience, it seems that people who feel the need to talk about their sex life and, for that matter, how his/her spouse is better than anyone else's is usually trying to convince him/herself.

One of my favorite quotes about sex and relationships is that when the sex is good, it's 5% of the relationship, when the sex is bad, it's 95% of the relationship. That would fit with JB bragging nonstop about how much sex they have. He is all talk. But I do have to say, since they were not forced to get married, didn't grow up in the fundie style that they raised their kids, I think JB & M actually are quite attracted to each other. They may have a mutually satisfying relationship because they chose each other.

[Growelly]

I wonder who Colleen Keller Liszkiewicz is - an cousin maybe? She looks fundie-lite, but talks fundie-fundie.

Me, too. She seems like a whackadoo.

[desertvixen]

Thank God, it appears to be the end of the active thread. Trying to catch up on this thing while moving and doing other stuff was not very feasible.

Aside from enjoying Josh getting caught out, I really hope that Anna has someone who has HER best interests at heart to talk to/advise her. (Probably not, based on what we're seeing.) Having been a wife who found out my husband had a (most likely emotional) affair with someone - when he came home from deployment and told me THAT day, I can only imagine how she's feeling. I wasn't brought up in a culture that says if your husband cheats the blame is on you, and I still felt it. It's possible for her to break out, but she'd need a lot of help since she has no marketable skills.

The whole BS of how she should have been aware of all the pressure he was under - just BS.

Enjoyed the minor personal flameouts as well.

[Cleopatra7]

It's disgusting that her parents only care about how they look, but that's been suspected that for a long time. Daniel has just confirmed it.

I'm glad she has her brother if she needs it. I'd bet Suze and Rebecca would also support her, if not financially, then emotionally.

I really hope she runs.

If the Kellers are really only concerned with how they look, someone needs to inform them that telling Anna to stay with a lying, cheating, molesting, scumbag makes them look really bad. :evil:

[happy atheist]

Well done, crazysnark! You got us confirmation of the tabloid 'sources' that are saying Anna will stay.

!	{TEXT1}:
	We do not allow members to post quotes from private facebook accounts, or other private sources. Paraphrasing is okay. This quote is brief enough that I'm not too concerned, but stick to summaries from here on out, please.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

If the Kellers are really only concerned with how they look, someone needs to inform them that telling Anna to stay with a lying, cheating, molesting, scumbag makes them look really bad. :evil:

Except they don't care what the heathens think. They care what they look like to people in their screwed up little cult bubble. Amassing power within those small circles is about image. A daughter who stays with a "repentant" cheater is way easier to overcome than a daughter who kicks his cheating butt to the curb.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Oops, I just screen-shotted (uh, is that a word) his comments and posted it in the Jessa thread...

I believe it's "screen-shat".

[kjmackin]

We need him to do the FJ version of an AMA!

Yes I totally second that. Maybe also with his escaped siblings as well.

[blessalessi]

OH BOY! Daniel Keller is ALL OVER Jessa's facebook in the comments. He is trying to rescue Anna and get her out, calls Josh a pig, says his parents are preaching for Anna to stay and she is not taking his help. He offered to go get Anna and the kids and have them live with him and his wife and pay for them.

My favourite part of the exchange:

CKL.... true...but tell me this, have you lied more than once in your life? Then you are a repeat offender as well

Like · 8 · 3 hrs

D K.... I know that my sin sent Jesus to the cross just as did josh sin. But think for a min about the victims. Tell me how you would feel if someone cheated on your sister and brought so much disgrace to you and ur family. And when you done that. Go to hell you prik.

:lol: :lol:

[Sundaymorning]

I just hope that the Duggars and Annas stupid parents don't try to limit her contact to her sane siblings, or try to manipulate her into shutting them out of her life completely.

[Diana]

Lawson Bates has post some scripture on his instagram. Seems like they are directed to Josh. https://instagram.com/p/6tbgkxPfRv/?taken-by=lawbates

[DuggaredOut]

I am sorry if I overlooked the discussion on this (if it already happened) but:

What could be the reason for the editing in Joshes Statement?

Why edit the blame on porn and satans work out? This is what he builds his futute on (Speaking Engagements on how porn ruined his life and how then god saved his weak sinner soul...).

Why edit this out? Any ideas?

My impression is that the statement was edited to be less specific about what Josh did and remove the most damning language. As much as the Duggars love public attention, they like to keep their sins private. I think they threw up a statement quickly, then realized it gave away more than it needed to and contained a little too much ammo for public criticism. Why let anyone know about porn specifically if you don't have to? Why remind them again of the molestations and confirm that Josh was 15 by the time they stopped? Why use hyperbolic language about Satan that might make people question whether Josh is really saved? I think they thought about some of that stuff and made the necessary revisions.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Except they don't care what the heathens think. They care what they look like to people in their screwed up little cult bubble. Amassing power within those small circles is about image. A daughter who stays with a "repentant" cheater is way easier to overcome than a daughter who kicks his cheating butt to the curb.

I get that it's how they think. And it's not just fundies - there are plenty of families who expect their kids to put up with mistreatment so they don't lose their status.

My question is how do overcome the primal instinct to protect and defend their kids? I do not believe parents should micromanage the lives of adult children but if one of mine were hurt or humiliated I'd be all over it.

Where is the parental instinct to protect? If my husband did that to me facing my family would not be pleasant for him. And when my dad was alive? He would not come out of that conversation intact.

I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this, I just don't get it.

[OodOnTheLoo]

True. Maybe they were just like "you did this, you explain it." If that's the case, it's clear Josh isn't as uniquely bright as he seems to believe he is... :naughty:

He is great at parroting things JimBob has said, including the hand motions. That's how he got the FRC job. But make him function on his own and it's clear what an uneducated twit he is. I wouldn't say that if someone posted here something like Josh's apology but when making a public announcement, knowing millions of people and the media will be scrutinizing it he should absolutely know better...recurring theme in his life, huh?

[refugee]

The BC discussion is always interesting, but it's easy to forget that these two wrote in special vows for their wedding ceremony about accepting ALL of God's blessings. They vowed in front of their families and friends, in front of the church, in front of the documenting cameras, that they would NOT use birth control. Josh may have just been pretending to be the golden child, but he was pretending as hard as he could. I don't think Anna was pretending when she spoke those vows.

Wondering. Is this a Gothard/ATI teaching -- to have as many children as humanly possible (marry young, have a baby every year or at most two, until menopause -- and some women of my acquaintance tried to stave off declining fertility with progesterone), or is this especially a JB & M oddity, and Josh and Anna were aiming to follow in their footsteps?

Where does this come from?

I mean, I've seen the illustration. You have ten kids, and each of them has ten kids, and each of them has ten kids, and pretty soon you can outvote all those other people who don't think the way you do.

But does this idea have an origination point?

And why try for 20 kids? It seems insane to me. (I read "Cheaper by Dozen" but it didn't really inspire me to have 12 kids... and besides, the Gilbraiths were efficiency experts, not religious idolators, so far as I know.)

Are the Duggars following some specific teaching, or did they just add their own sick spin to someone else's teaching?

[Odd1Out]

I can see JB and Michelle guilting Anna into having them counsel her and Josh. Making them go on a 'retreat' where it's just the 4 of them and basically 'tomato staking' them to each other till they get along. Kind of like those sibling 'get along' shirts on Pinterest.

[luv2laugh]

Wow he is really letting him have it, "I tell you who I don't give a shit about is that pig she calls her husband"

[Cleopatra7]

Except they don't care what the heathens think. They care what they look like to people in their screwed up little cult bubble. Amassing power within those small circles is about image. A daughter who stays with a "repentant" cheater is way easier to overcome than a daughter who kicks his cheating butt to the curb.

I think they do care, albeit in a topsy-turvy kind of way. The reason why the Kellers and the Duggars do "ministry" 24/7 is precisely so they can convert other people to their way of thinking. Even if the masses don't convert en masse to Gothardism, they want outsiders to think they're more "godly" than the average person and at least have a favorable opinion about them so Gothard's various front groups can get mainstream backing. That's why all these various secrets had to remain hidden, because it would spoil their message. The scandals over the last couple of months have revealed that this "wholesome Christian family" is anything but.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Wow he is really letting him have it, "I tell you who I don't give a shit about is that pig she calls her husband"

Part of me loves that this is his reaction...because if I had a brother and my spouse cheated on me, this is EXACTLY how I would want him to react. And I think it's the reasonable reaction of any normal male...So on the one hand, I look at that and think "Yep, *that's* how you're supposed to respond."

But at the same time...as far as supporting Anna goes, if she were to attempt an escape from this sociological cult, I think his approach may backfire. It may take her awhile to reach the point where she feels like she can make a decision, or wants to make a decision...and the Duggars and her parents are likely pressuring her VERY hard to staystaystay and stuff her feelings in a sack. She's not entitled to any of the normal, healthy emotions a betrayed wife would feel - namely ANGER, RAGE, etc. Since he's rushed out to beg forgiveness, the only thing she'll be allowed to express is some sadness, with forgiveness and reconciliation following quickly. So her brother very publicly calling her husband a pig and a prik and using such strong language to call him out ( :clap: :clap: :clap: ) may make her feel even less like she can go to him for support. Her family is likely waging an all-out assault to make sure she feels like he is so far in the "other" camp (of bad guys and heathens) that she cannot dream of going to him for support.

[Dandruff]

Yes, another not-a-Josh fan.

I don't think the Pecan Thief can stand him either. While he's no doubt supporting his wife's parents' position that Anna should stay with her - cough - wonderful husband, deep down he's probably loving every minute of this.

I agree, and it won't surprise me if D&P offer to let Anna and the kids stay with them for awhile. It would be a partial escape while at the same time keeping them in the Collective.

[OodOnTheLoo]

It's an interesting read. Queer-identifying youth* are more likely to experience a teen pregnancy than straight teens.

*Who have had sex that could result in a pregnancy

They threw out everyone who hadn't had sex, or had only had sex with someone of the same gender. So no, the average lesbian teenager is probably less likely to get pregnant than the average straight teenager. HOWEVER, if that lesbian teenager is sexually active with males, then she is more likely to get pregnant that the average straight, sexually active teenager. Or at least that's what this one study found.

I suspect many lesbian-identifying teens aren't prepared with birth control. The other sad fact is violence against LGBTQ teens is higher than their peers ( in general) and this includes rape. More likely to be forced, less likely to be on the pill.

[happy atheist]

Part 4: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26846