Joshley Madison Pt 3: Storming Satan's Hidden Fortress

[VaSportsMom]

The OKC question about needing to have sex with someone before marrying - do you that people may now assume that him & Anna were intimate before the wedding and judge her?

In Anna's position, do you think it makes it better or worse that he turned to site like AM vs getting involved with one or more people from his daily life?

[lurker315]

Longtime lurker - First post

I've tried to keep up on this thread, so I don't think this has been talked about.

All we really know about the early years of the family are things that have been mentioned in the early specials, plus the threads long ago that talked about Josh, blanket training, "sin in the camp" etc. We know JimBob is oversexualized. When raising your first child, I think you don't really know how much they are aware of adult interaction. I can envision a young Josh picking up a lot of signals in that tiny house with all those babies distracting the parents. If JB is all over DQ in his 40's, what must he have been like in his early 30's? Josh probably got an eye-and-earful.

I hate the term "in rut", but that is what he has been exposed to. JB and DQ were probably so focused on Quiverfulling that they ignored the fact that hormones were starting to kick in. It's hard enough for parents to pickup on disordered behavior in a regular-sized family, the chaos in that tiny house meant that Josh was pretty much on his own. JB probably never had the discussions with Josh that normal fathers have with 10 and 11 year old boys to answer some of their questions.

I can't imagine what Joy is thinking about all this. I kind of wish she was with Jana instead of Jill because I still have hope that behind that calm demeanor, Jana is seething and she's ready to make the break. The two of them and Jinger could venture out together.

[Swamptribe]

GMA is doing a story on Smuggar. They are including scenes of him singing to Anna at their wedding, and mention of him molesting his own sisters. It's kind of funny, but so far as I know, Smuggars name is the only one to really become public in this Ashley Madison release.

[VaSportsMom]

GMA is doing a story on Smuggar. They are including scenes of him singing to Anna at their wedding, and mention of him molesting his own sisters. It's kind of funny, but so far as I know, Smuggars name is the only one to really become public in this Ashley Madison release.

It is odd that Josh's name is the only one really being discussed but he did so little to hide his tracks. I imagine that few others were as careless.

[Growelly]

I hope they're not reminding her to keep sweet through all of this.

At the very least, I hope she had a chance to rage at him. Whether she forgives him or not, decides to stay with him or not - if she is not allowed to express her feelings, wow. Not healthy for her or her children and opens the possibility of long-term implications.

[truthseeker]

I'm guessing she's being kept closely under wraps. Although there probably isn't the PR advice forthcoming that there was while the show was still active. If they're out in the cold - so to speak - anything could happen.

[polecat]

It's so easy to cheat. If Anna wanted to cheat she could. Kids gotta nap, go grocery shopping, sneak her side piece in while the kids are playing, meet her side piece at the park, wait until the kids are sleep.

Bringing a cheating partner into her home? Or leaving her kids unattended?

Yuck to both.

[Percy]

I only had 2 children 20 months apart. There was no way that there was a opportunity to cheat. I was too tired and there was too much to do. No way ANna could do this with 3-4

[Jana814]

Josh is nasty, horny, little pig bastard. In my opinion he is sorry he was caught, not sorry for what he has done. Stay tuned folks, I bet there is more to come!!

Agree!!

[VaSportsMom]

I'm guessing she's being kept closely under wraps. Although there probably isn't the PR advice forthcoming that there was while the show was still active. If they're out in the cold - so to speak - anything could happen.

I wonder if TLC isn't at least offering PR help. The show may be cancelled but I would be surprised if advertisers aren't asking how the heck they didn't know this was going on.

I really hope someone is helping Anna. She's standing in a minefield with 4 children. She needs a friend because everyone else is just worried about covering their own asses.

We keep talking about Anna deciding to stay or go but I think that it is very possible that Josh has made that decision for her. If he wants out then this is the time for it. It isn't like public opinion can get much worse.

[polecat]

The way I understand fundy-ism and the reason it is so harmful to women, is that on Josh and Anna's wedding day, Pa Keller gave the headship authority for Anna and her life to Josh. Prior to that, under the patriarchal system, Mr. Keller had been Anna's headship. This is total and utter BS to me, and it shows how weak the women are to knuckle under and live like this. It's not 1690 in Colonial Williamsburg, it's 2015 and women have liberties and rights to be independent of any man or other " authority" if she want to do so.

snip

Yeah, I'm just going to have to go on the record as STRONGLY disagreeing with you here.

I grew up in a fundy system, and yeah, I was a strong-minded straight-up rebellious bitch *in my heart*. But outwardly, I did what I had to do to get by -- I obeyed my parents, I respected people in authority, I dressed modestly (frumpily), I followed all the rules ... until I was old enough and had enough money saved to get the hell out. Do you have any idea how hard it is to know who you are but still have to live a lie just to survive? Tell you what -- maybe you could understand it like this ... Imagine if you're a gay teen in a fundy family. Now are those kids weak for knuckling under and hiding themselves just to survive? Fuck no. They're strong as hell. And so are fundy women *who are doing what they have to do to survive*. Yeah, women are adults and have more legal rights -- but they're often hobbled and thwarted at every step so that getting out often means leaving EVERYTHING behind. Not everyone is willing or able to do that. So they just keep living a lie.

Just because I and others have managed to get out of that deadly system doesn't mean that those who are left behind are WEAK. The brainwashing begins at birth. Women are taught that they are second to men (and children, even, if the children happen to have penises). They are given poor educations so that they cannot support themselves. They are strongly discouraged from getting jobs of any kind. They are discouraged or forbidden from getting an education. And they are encouraged to breed like rabbits. They are not WEAK because they don't conform to YOUR idea of strength.

I have no freaking clue what's going on in Anna's mind. Maybe she's swallowed the party line hook, line and sinker and deserves your contempt. Or maybe this was the final straw that broke her faith. Or maybe she's been rebelling in her heart a helluva long time but has to "stay sweet to survive" even while constantly searching for ways to escape without losing everything that has ever mattered to her. Point is, none of us know. But to write off all fundy women as WEAK pisses me the hell off. It's bullshit.

[Peas n carrots]

The redraft of the statement took out the viewing porn sentence and left the unfaithful bit - which some folks assume to mean he was physically cheating on her. As I understand, watching porn can be considered cheating in fundieland - so we shouldn't assume there is a former partner or multiple partners out there.

But if I'm wrong by all means tell me!

[PracticeMakesProgress]

Oh my holy gees...I'm not on FJ for a few days and BAM! Another example of why Gothardism does NOTHING to actually make you a genuinely better person...

Wow. I guess maybe I was somewhat prepared? when the molestation news came to light, as I was aware of the "sin in the camp," Oprah, and other rumors from long ago. That was disgusting and horrible enough, but at least I got to blame JB and Michelle as much for the atrocity as Josh. I've never been a Smuggar fan, as he reminded me so much of all the "good on Sunday, bad on Saturday," leaders and men I had to pretend were the ultimate aspiration of any young Christian female. It sickened me that my ultimate goal growing up was not to be a holy, passionate, individual, but really be made better through picking a man. Thanks, mom! And too many hours of legalistic church and church-related activities...

I guess what's so especially skin-crawling about this is that it's proof he really may not be "reformed." I've tried to stay positive and believe that there were no other victims except for those in that period of time as a teenager, but now I'm really worried we're gonna have a train of confessions. Now granted, it does not make it right, but yes, Josh is one of 30+ million spouses who signed up on AM, all seeking similar goals, none of which, presumably are illegal, just shady, immoral, deceitful, and hurtful, especially to a wife whose been bringing forth your spawn and spreading your hypocritical viewpoint without question from day one. Why is it always the ones with the darkest secrets that shout loudest in the light? Are they trying to absolve their own shortcomings by pointing out the perceived shortcomings in others? Man, I wish I knew where this practice was condemned, so I could show it to...oh wait, yes, that's right. JESUS said it. Read your own bible, douche bag.

I hope Anna knows also in that bible, she is able to "justifiably" divorce him. Granted, it's never easy to walk away from a spouse, a life, with 4 kids and face the world as a single mom, but I have to believe she has better prospects out there, even if she stays in fundie circles (can I get a Chad Paine for this woman, STAT??). But something tells me, as has been mentioned upthread, she'll blame herself, she wasn't pretty enough, or faithful enough, or willing enough, or whatever, and she must stay with him, per some stupid Gothard-peddled philosophy and live a miserable, unfulfilled, and troubled marital life...at the very least, Anna, if you're out there, google "Mirena."

I hate to ramble so much on one post, but honestly, I've spent so much of the past few months with jaw dropped, my typing fingers have gotten very little experience participating in the great Duggar crash of 2015. And somewhere, I can't help but think Gil Bates wringing his sweaty little tree hands thinking, "It's OUR time. It's BATES time. WE WILL BE THE GREAT FAMILY TO ASCEND!!! Let the ultimate grifting begin!" I predict a switch of BUB to TLC in the Tuesday night slot within 12 months...

[RootBeerFloat]

It's so easy to cheat. If Anna wanted to cheat she could. Kids gotta nap, go grocery shopping, sneak her side piece in while the kids are playing, meet her side piece at the park, wait until the kids are sleep.

Go borrow 4 children under 6 for a week and see how much time you have to meet your side piece. Hilarious! It would be nice if Anna has that much "me" time, but I'm guessing it's a banner worthy day when she gets to pee alone. ;)

[jersharocks]

I hope Anna gets herself and her children tested. I am not going to hold my breath that Josh used a condom. I could see him just assuming a woman, especially one he is paying for, is on Birth control because thats what the heathens do.

If he was with a prostitute, I doubt he was able to convince her that he did not need to wear a condom. Their livelihood is at stake when they sleep with someone unprotected so I highly doubt a prostitute, especially one associated with a pay site like Ashley Madison is going to forgo condoms.

That being said, we all know that condoms aren't foolproof and who knows who he really slept with so yes, Anna should get tested.

[Jana814]

I feel bad for Anna, I really hopes she wakes up and leaves his sorry ass. I have a feeling that she will go the "Jesus forgives him so I should too" route. It sucks that she was raised with such low standards for herself.

Agree!!

[Jana814]

I doubt Anna cheated. Like someone said above she wouldn't have time to cheat.

[SnazzyNazzy]

If he was with a prostitute, I doubt he was able to convince her that he did not need to wear a condom. Their livelihood is at stake when they sleep with someone unprotected so I highly doubt a prostitute, especially one associated with a pay site like Ashley Madison is going to forgo condoms.

That being said, we all know that condoms aren't foolproof and who knows who he really slept with so yes, Anna should get tested.

I really hope that there is a hooker story, somewhere in the mix. A hooker story, would be the cherry on top, of this sex scandal.

[VaSportsMom]

I really hope that there is a hooker story, somewhere in the mix. A hooker story, would be the cherry on top, of this sex scandal.

With an innocent woman and 4 children involved must there really be a cherry on top?

[Handmaiden of Dog]

It strikes me that if Josh had not been raised in this horrible patriarchal society that Josh would have been a much nicer person-- or least he would have pretended to be nice. He was handed Anna on a plate and told that she belonged to him. He did not have to do much to maintain their relationship, the onus was all on her to serve him willingly, have sex whenever he wanted and to gaze at him adoringly at all times.

If Josh had been raised outside the cult he would have had to work a lot harder to attract women. He would have probably lost quite a few crushes before finding someone who would marry him. I'm not saying he would not have ultimately cheated on his spouse but at least he would have been more fearful of the consequences. Anna is not going to do jack shit. She will go one being his faithful household drudge and pumping out his spawn. If he doesn't leave her no doubt he will cheat on her again in the future.

[FlamingFundie]

I seriously doubt this blind item is about Josh, but wouldn't it just add another layer of something to this whole circus?

http://blindgossip.com/?p=73291

Edit to bold first part because...yeah...there's no way this is actually about Anna and Josh.

SUBWAY GUY.

[GeoBQn]

Lori Alexander's much-awaited response!

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-josh-duggar-affair-continuing-in-sin.html

I'm not sure why she felt the need to make a graphic with a cutesy Pinterest font for this one . . .

[polecat]

I think what's really sad is who know's what turns that creep on. He may have wanted someone else for any reason. Some kind of weird fettish or something. He may have just wanted to experience sex with someone else. Who knows with this weird family. Maybe it was the 'sex toys' thing.

Disclaimer: I am NOT excusing this behavior.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was just trying to figure out WHAT to do. He did say he wanted someone from whom he could learn. Fundy sex ed is lacking in a lot of ways, not the least of which the woman's pleasure is rarely considered. These are things people usually figure out when they're single, but when you're not even allowed to kiss a woman (we weren't even allowed to hold hands -- the Duggars were downright daring in that!), you probably have no clue what you like, what your partner likes or how to go about doing any of it.

[nelliebelle1197]

For all the people on the other thread speculating that Anna's dad telling sons-in-law to turn computer passwords over to wives might imply that Pa Keller was suspicious, I just wanted to let you know that most of these quiverfull fundie types have this type of "accountability" set up. It is normal in fundie culture to have a wife or husband monitor the computer usage of the other. This means nothing.

[Exposedknees]

I want the person who comes forward to have been preop transgender! ..And that Joshie didn't know! :o

Oh Please!

Oh please!