Alyssa Bates and John Webster Engagement (now confirmed)

[nausicaa]

The family business has been around for a while, I think they'll do okay.

But I can't get over giving up college for the type of marriage they will have. They could wait for her to finish, but no, have to get married now.

I don't know. It just seems....sad.

I know, I can't shake the same feeling. I know this is their culture, and I know Crown College is essentially useless, but I still don't get the rush to get married when you're still a teenager. I'm not saying wait until you're thirty, but maybe 21? At least a few years of advanced education or job skills? Is being single for even a year or two so bad?

[singsingsing]

The 'rush' is because she has met the person she wants to marry. Why on earth would she want to wait? In their culture you can't have sex, kiss, have a private conversation, or go out together unless you're married. There's no incentive to wait and frankly I don't blame them.

[feministing]

The 'rush' is because she has met the person she wants to marry. Why on earth would she want to wait? In their culture you can't have sex, kiss, have a private conversation, or go out together unless you're married. There's no incentive to wait and frankly I don't blame them.

This. It totally gets ingrained in you. I met my SO when I was 19, in college, and questioning everything. It was a hard time, but he stuck by me, heard me out when I ranted and cried, and became my best friend. He helped me get over all of my myriad sexual issues (I had, and still have, so many issues with repression of sexuality and of course guilt and feelings of filth). He even told me he would wait until marriage for me if I wanted to but I didn't want to stay a messed-up prude forever. I came into my own as a feminist because of him.

But, deep down, I can't shake the feeling of marriage as being the ultimate goal, the pinnacle of achievement. I know this sounds weird, but I've fantasized about my wedding since I was little and pictured myself walking down the aisle towards him since we were 3 months in. I was 19.

I admit I have been pestering him to get married. Despite not being fundie, I still want to be queen for a day. Heck, I'm more excited for my wedding than my med school graduation.

And yet, I am purposely waiting until I graduate to get married. I'm not sure if it is out of defiance or rebellion to my roots, but I want to wait until I am actually making enough money. That's the rational part of me. The not-so-rational part (mesolimbic?) wants nothing more than to drop everything, pull an Alyssa Bates, and plan a fairly tale wedding right about now.

I have compromised by simply admiring other weddings from afar. Especially fundie weddings. Of course, I don't want a fundie wedding myself but there is something so charming and nostalgic about them.

Anyway, I totally understand how the emphasis on marriage can just seep into your identity when raised in a religious, conservative, traditional household that gave me positive reinforcement whenever I demonstrated helpmeet qualities (which was rare - I'm less domestic than Jessa!) the urge to get married just consumes you, especially when you found the love of your life.

[nausicaa]

The 'rush' is because she has met the person she wants to marry. Why on earth would she want to wait? In their culture you can't have sex, kiss, have a private conversation, or go out together unless you're married. There's no incentive to wait and frankly I don't blame them.

I know very religious people often have short engagements because they can't wait to have sex, but I've never thought that's a very good foundation for marrying someone. A year or two of learning more about herself as an adult, meeting new people, gaining new skills would serve her much better in her marriage in the long term, imo. Not to be too much of a Debbie Downer finger wagger, but Alyssa has met the person she wants to marry now, at nineteen, with very little life experience. It might not be the person she wants to be married to a decade from now. I understand this is the leap of faith all people who marry make no matter their age, but I feel comfortable in generalizing that most people don't have the necessary experience to make this choice while still a teenager.

The incentive to waiting is to create a stronger foundation for a marriage of two adults, but that incentive is not fun and sparkly and requires some maturity to see. (A level of maturity I certainly didn't have at that age so I don't fault Alyssa for that.) But Alyssa and her culture is just so focused on being a princess for a day and finally getting some tail, ironically the very thing fundies criticize the larger culture of overemphasizing in terms of marriage.

I understand how much this culture constricts her, but that's a part of what I find so sad.

[HereticHick]

I looked up the family business, Webster Air Conditioning, in a business database, Reference USA:

company name: Webster Air Conditioning

employees: 5

established: 1961

home business: no

square footage: 2,500-9,999

sales volume most recent year: $1,008,000

[beautyandthefish]

Found on the comments page for Alyssa and John's engagement post...

Congregations to John & Alyssa! They will make a Beautiful Couple, they look so happy together! Thank you for posting Mrs. Bates! Your family is such a wonderful example.

:lol: SOTDRT at its best!

[formergothardite]

The 'rush' is because she has met the person she wants to marry. Why on earth would she want to wait? In their culture you can't have sex, kiss, have a private conversation, or go out together unless you're married. There's no incentive to wait and frankly I don't blame them.

All of these are really horrible reasons to get married. This courtship culture is horrible for happy marriages.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

This is where it becomes clear that these nice, normal people are not like the rest of us. They don't WANT any of their kids to go to college, especially the girls. They want them to marry young, live a pretty isolated life, and have a ton of kids. They don't believe in backup plans. The only plan is to marry and breed.

[doubleT]

feministing - Best wishes to you. I am glad you found someone who is patient and helpful. Nothing wrong with looking forward to your wedding day and I hope it is everything you want it to be. And the many days and years that follow, in not only marriage but in your job/career and life.

I've know several women who have married at 19 & 20 and are still married to the same guy 25+ years later.

I could never have done that, I went to college and graduated and started working before marriage. I was way too immature at 19. But I had friends who dropped out of college and got married that young. Worked for some and it didn't for some. (I think all of them returned and finished college at some point except one.)

We have to remember that Alyssa doesn't know any better. She is so sheltered and not wise on the society that is just out side her bubble. And even once she marries, that probably won't change. She does not know of the choices that are out there for young ladies at her age. Even if she did, she has been made to believe that many of those choices are evil and bad for her heart and soul to be around.

Its true ... the rush is because they don't want to sin but they want to experience a real relationship.

[Pretzel]

blog.thebatesfamilyDOTcom/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_3386.jpg

Apart from the fact that she may have quit college too early for some people on here (although I still think quitting CLOWN was one of the smarter choices), can I just point out how stunning she looks (especially in the picture above)? She looks like a movie star and her expression is very soft and sentimental. A few years back, I thought she was looking rather inconspicuously and a bit shy, yet not very "striking" but I realized her beauty was hidden behind Erin's high hair (and she was still a teenager anyway).

Alyssa strikes me as someone who does somehow want to get out of "there". Her ways to do that may not be congruent with ours, but she's trying to change her life to some degree and she seems to want some changes. I get a feeling that Alyssa has quite some taste and a preference for things that appear classy to her. For a fundie girl, it's great to see her being able to live that out.

[Coconut Flan]

Please don't use DOT. It isn't necessary. Thanks!

blog.thebatesfamily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_3386.jpg

[singsingsing]

Alyssa really loves the whole politician's wife look, that's for sure.

[nokidsmom]

I know very religious people often have short engagements because they can't wait to have sex, but I've never thought that's a very good foundation for marrying someone. A year or two of learning more about herself as an adult, meeting new people, gaining new skills would serve her much better in her marriage in the long term, imo. Not to be too much of a Debbie Downer finger wagger, but Alyssa has met the person she wants to marry now, at nineteen, with very little life experience. It might not be the person she wants to be married to a decade from now. I understand this is the leap of faith all people who marry make no matter their age, but I feel comfortable in generalizing that most people don't have the necessary experience to make this choice while still a teenager.

The incentive to waiting is to create a stronger foundation for a marriage of two adults, but that incentive is not fun and sparkly and requires some maturity to see. (A level of maturity I certainly didn't have at that age so I don't fault Alyssa for that.) But Alyssa and her culture is just so focused on being a princess for a day and finally getting some tail, ironically the very thing fundies criticize the larger culture of overemphasizing in terms of marriage.

I understand how much this culture constricts her, but that's a part of what I find so sad.

+1. I have personally seen how many religious folks, some fundies, some not, go for marriage at young ages because it's the approved way to finely get some plus they are raised to think that this is a must-have life goal, especially for the women. Knew a number of couples in college who got married while in school, some stayed, some (or one, usually the wife) dropped out. I myself was engaged at 19 so understand on one hand wanting marry the person you want to marry at that age (looking back it would have been a mistake) but at the same time holding out until you are older, finish your education, get a job etc. is definitely not fun or exciting. In fact it can be a real drag, but you know, that's also life. Life is not just going to be about being princess for a day or all the exciting wedding stuff, it's going to be all the stuff that comes afterward and if you can hold out through all the unfun stuff, that growing process is going to be better for both spouses.

Incidentally, re: my early engagement I held out for waiting to actually get married until I finished college and got a full time job, but ex-fiance would not hear of it which is why he became the ex. Being around people who thought that a woman's role was to get married, my wanting to delay and then calling it off was shocking to them. And I didn't grow up fundie so for a young woman like Alyssa who's been raised to think of marriage and kids as the main goal in her life, with no other options, she's not even going to consider waiting for things like completing an education, getting skills or a job. It simply won't enter her mind.

[mockingbird]

+1. I have personally seen how many religious folks, some fundies, some not, go for marriage at young ages because it's the approved way to finely get some plus they are raised to think that this is a must-have life goal, especially for the women. Knew a number of couples in college who got married while in school, some stayed, some (or one, usually the wife) dropped out. I myself was engaged at 19 so understand on one hand wanting marry the person you want to marry at that age (looking back it would have been a mistake) but at the same time holding out until you are older, finish your education, get a job etc. is definitely not fun or exciting. In fact it can be a real drag, but you know, that's also life. Life is not just going to be about being princess for a day or all the exciting wedding stuff, it's going to be all the stuff that comes afterward and if you can hold out through all the unfun stuff, that growing process is going to be better for both spouses.

Incidentally, re: my early engagement I held out for waiting to actually get married until I finished college and got a full time job, but ex-fiance would not hear of it which is why he became the ex. Being around people who thought that a woman's role was to get married, my wanting to delay and then calling it off was shocking to them. And I didn't grow up fundie so for a young woman like Alyssa who's been raised to think of marriage and kids as the main goal in her life, with no other options, she's not even going to consider waiting for things like completing an education, getting skills or a job. It simply won't enter her mind.

I have seen a lot of early/quick marriages too and I also find it sad in a way. Getting married is such a huge decision and I would hate to be stuck with someone I didn't end up being compatible with, just because I didn't take the time to get to know them/myself. Or miss out on opportunities (like education) by committing to a marriage that involved a big change like moving - I think the right person would wait or compromise. And often, especially when the fast marriage is for religious reasons, it's not that acceptable to divorce. (I know that sometimes you just "know when you know", but I think when you're a little older, you probably have a better idea of what you want and can trust those gut feelings more because you've had more experience.)

But yes, I think it's true that Alyssa probably doesn't view options such as finishing school or getting a job or having more of a close relationship before marriage as valid choices, and marriage is kind-of the biggest achievement she can have in her life so far... so it does make sense why she would choose to get married so quickly.

[Nerthe]

I think there were no chaperones in that fancy car if I look at the picture!

I also guess Kelly did not like that and doesn't want to talk about it because one of the commenters asked and she kind of went around the question of chaperones in the car:

[GeoBQn]

When I was in college, I knew a pair of sisters who got quick, early marriages to escape from a bad home situation. (When one sister gave their mom an ultimatum to choose between her and her abusive stepfather, she woke up the next morning to find a bag of her clothes next to the front door.) The older sister moved in with her boyfriend while they were both still in high school, then got married the summer before they started college because that was the only way they could live together on campus. As far as I know, they are still married 10 years later.

The younger sister started pressuring her college boyfriend early and often to get married. He finally proposed to her and they got married in June after graduation. By October, she had deleted her wedding photo album from Facebook and had changed her profile name back to her maiden name. Several years later, she remarried and seems much happier.

[sheltonLE]

But, deep down, I can't shake the feeling of marriage as being the ultimate goal, the pinnacle of achievement. I know this sounds weird, but I've fantasized about my wedding since I was little and pictured myself walking down the aisle towards him since we were 3 months in. I was 19.

[...] And yet, I am purposely waiting until I graduate to get married. I'm not sure if it is out of defiance or rebellion to my roots, but I want to wait until I am actually making enough money. That's the rational part of me. The not-so-rational part (mesolimbic?) wants nothing more than to drop everything, pull an Alyssa Bates, and plan a fairly tale wedding right about now.

Same here! I can totally understand you, I have the same feelings about my boyfriend of 10 years ( we've been together since we were 14 years old) and I wouldn't have hesitated to marry him at 19, if he had asked me.

I hate that my brain keeps telling me to finish university and start a career first. :angry-banghead:

[Dandruff]

Major life decisions made in desperation often beg for trouble but I think a lot of people convince themselves that things can only get better. I don't believe Alyssa or John are desperate though. They appear to be in love and come from stable, supportive families vs. abusive or really impoverished ones. I'm sure they both want and expect the marriage to work and will do their best to make it happen. OTOH, there are those strict gender roles. Is it possible that Alyssa wants further education and job experience beyond working part-time at a florist? What's she going to do after she's married, but before the children come, with her family so far away? What if something happens to John? I think every fundie groom who doesn't want his wife to work should be required (e.g., by the bride's family) to get and maintain a large life insurance policy - like enough to support his wife and a dozen kids comfortably for at least 15 years. I realize I'm dreaming.

[Ralar]

Major life decisions made in desperation often beg for trouble but I think a lot of people convince themselves that things can only get better. I don't believe Alyssa or John are desperate though. They appear to be in love and come from stable, supportive families vs. abusive or really impoverished ones. I'm sure they both want and expect the marriage to work and will do their best to make it happen. OTOH, there are those strict gender roles. Is it possible that Alyssa wants further education and job experience beyond working part-time at a florist? What's she going to do after she's married, but before the children come, with her family so far away? What if something happens to John? I think every fundie groom who doesn't want his wife to work should be required (e.g., by the bride's family) to get and maintain a large life insurance policy - like enough to support his wife and a dozen kids comfortably for at least 15 years. I realize I'm dreaming.

Life insurance? Many of them don't even purchase health insurance!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Kelly says Alyssa is having 8 bridesmaids and 2 flower girls and 400 guests. Sounds like it will be quite the grand show.

[Justme]

Kelly says Alyssa is having 8 bridesmaids and 2 flower girls and 400 guests. Sounds like it will be quite the grand show.

That's tiny compared to Erin's wedding.

[gypsygirl22]

Kelly says Alyssa is having 8 bridesmaids and 2 flower girls and 400 guests. Sounds like it will be quite the grand show.

Gil & Kelly better get working on the donations...someone has to pay for the wedding/reception!

[3 ring circus]

Gil & Kelly better get working on the donations...someone has to pay for the wedding/reception!

If the Webster's are smart they'll step in and make sure it doesn't become turkey and olives on a stick at the reception.

They need all those guests to get $$ for the couples honeymoon.

[3 ring circus]

I know, I can't shake the same feeling. I know this is their culture, and I know Crown College is essentially useless, but I still don't get the rush to get married when you're still a teenager. I'm not saying wait until you're thirty, but maybe 21? At least a few years of advanced education or job skills? Is being single for even a year or two so bad?

The rush could also be that maybe Lawson is courting(Gil's bank so to speak) and he's about to go out on his own. I could totally see the Bateses unloading as many kids as they can before that happens.

[GeoBQn]

Kelly said in the comments that Lawson isn't courting right now, though that does not exclude the possibility of a "getting to know you" period.