Alyssa Bates and John Webster Engagement (now confirmed)

[3 ring circus]

I honestly wonder if Alyssa had the desire to go to college. I have friends who attended college out of "society pressure" but never finished it because their hearts weren't in it. I wonder if Alyssa is the same-that her main goals are just to be married, be a wife, and mother. There is nothing wrong with not going to college, as long as you have skills needed to survive in the world. I have a cousin who dropped out of college, only to open up his own business which is doing very well. Right now, Alyssa does not have any skills that will guarantee she'll manage to be on her own, should something happen to John or if he has an injury in which he cannot work for a while.

It bothers me that these girls are trained to only look forward to being married and that planning a wedding calls for grounds to drop out. There is so much more to life than just waiting for Prince Charming and planning your wedding.

I have a boyfriend of 6 years and people have been on our backs, asking when that big day will happen. Even though I want to take that next step, I told him that I want to wait until I am employed and can bring in money from my side instead of just living on his paycheck, which would have been pretty difficult. I've seen my parents financially struggle when I was little and it was tough, which is why I want to make sure my boyfriend and I don't go through that stress.

I hope that once Alyssa moves to Orlando, she gains work skills that will benefit her in the future, whether it's working at some company or finishing up college. Then again, even if she does restart that path, it'll be put on hold again when she announces she's pregnant.

They don't know that there is more than waiting for Prince Charming. Their parents want them that way, then they make good fundie wives and can be controlled.

[3 ring circus]

This is the possibly the single biggest event in their lives. For the girls, they are told the ultimate reward for them is to be wives and mothers. For the boys, it signifies adulthood. They leave and cleave. (unless they're a Duggar). Doesn't surprise me that they would obsess about everything.

Don't forget the boys get to have ebil sex too.

I too would like to know what goes into planning a fundie wedding. Reading what you wrote above could take a couple days at most.

[sheltonLE]

Kelly commented on the young age issue:

Elena January 29, 2014 at 12:28 pm

Hi Kelly,

What a year for you and Gil, its been non stop for you. Im sure you are filled with love and joy as you see your older kids beginning their lives. Congratulations to them both they look overjoyed. I know you believe strongly about courting first with a chaperone however, is there no encouragement to marry a little later in life? Its really non of my business and I think your family is amazing and your children are all incredible but 19 seems so young..I have a nineteen year old, there is so much for them to learn still..add a marriage and husband to the mix seems a lot to handle.

Love, Elena

Reply

Kelly January 29, 2014 at 10:37 pm

Dear Elena,

I think adding years and maturity to a relationship can only be a help, certainly! However, I do realize that each individual and their circumstances are different. Would I want all of my children to marry young? No, but I do want to be open to the needs and differences that makes each child unique. Alyssa has always been one of those 12 year olds going on 20 type of children. She’s always acted older than her age, with goals beyond her years. She fell in love young, and her goal is to be a wife and raise a family. She’s in love and happy. I don’t want to drag out their relationship for years just because she started younger. I think she has a lot to learn, but didn’t we all. I married at 21, but soon realized a lot I would need to learn would come from hands on experience. My main goal for them is to put Christ first. That’s my prayer. Her age is not as important to me as that goal. Would I have liked for her to be older? Sure, I think age does mature a person, yet I realize other things, like trials and experience can also bring maturity. So, I am a mom that offers counsel, along with a few rules that we think are wise protective rules for the good of all, but when it comes down to it, I encourage them to learn to seek God and make decisions. I have some 19 year olds that I wouldn’t want to marry, but I have some that had more maturity at 16 than most adults I’ve met (We do ask that our children not begin relationships until they are atleast 18, because they have school responsibilities, etc.) They’re each different, with different personalities and goals. I have a 25 year old running for mayor… Would I want most 25 year olds holding that position? Eeek!! But I realize my son is no ordinary 25 year old. His conversations on politics would blow most adults away. At 5, he was studying encyclopedias and writing his own tracts! What’s all that mean? People can’t be compared. One 25 is not equal in maturity to others that age. So, yes, I agree age can be a factor that must be considered, and I applaud anyone who wants to wait…but I don’t stand in the way when others show signs of maturity and readiness at an earlier age either. Love, Kelly

[Tangy Bee]

Ok so we now know that Alyssa is "mature" for her age & wants to be a wife and raise a family. Wonder if Gil is gonna give them that fundie sex book. John looks like a virgin, but he BETTER be learning about sex on his own. It's got to be SUPER embarrassing for your father in law to give you a book about love making at the age of 24. So who was Alyssa trying to please by taking college classes in the first place. Was she doing it because Erin is a student there? Did she go to secretly find a man or did she just want to get out of the house for a bit? Not holding it against her. I know some people who went to college only to find out it just wasn't for them. Glad Erin is trying to finish up what she started.

[singsingsing]

Come on people, seriously? You can't 'look like a virgin'. What grade are we in here? Another startling revelation: even if John is not a virgin, that still doesn't mean he's any good at sex.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

Sooo, Kelly married at 21 and has 19 kids, none of them twins. If Alyssa sticks with the Gothard method of family planning (ie tracking fertility cycles, weaning babies early, and claiming you're 'leaving it up to God'), and goes through menopause at the same age as Kelly, that gives her two extra years of babymaking. She'll have 20 kids for sure (more if there are twins).

[singsingsing]

Yup, Alyssa could pretty easily have 20. Can you imagine?

[Coconut Flan]

I'm praying that they at least don't actively try to have 20 and may actually take some measures to keep the number of children more reasonable.

[feministing]

feministing - Best wishes to you. I am glad you found someone who is patient and helpful. Nothing wrong with looking forward to your wedding day and I hope it is everything you want it to be. And the many days and years that follow, in not only marriage but in your job/career and life.

I've know several women who have married at 19 & 20 and are still married to the same guy 25+ years later.

I could never have done that, I went to college and graduated and started working before marriage. I was way too immature at 19. But I had friends who dropped out of college and got married that young. Worked for some and it didn't for some. (I think all of them returned and finished college at some point except one.)

We have to remember that Alyssa doesn't know any better. She is so sheltered and not wise on the society that is just out side her bubble. And even once she marries, that probably won't change. She does not know of the choices that are out there for young ladies at her age. Even if she did, she has been made to believe that many of those choices are evil and bad for her heart and soul to be around.

Its true ... the rush is because they don't want to sin but they want to experience a real relationship.

The rush is also because she thinks that God picked out a soulmate for her so it will obviously turn out alright in the end.

A lot of this is complete trust in God too. They see him as a divine matchmaker. I still sometimes feel that my SO and I were brought together by divine forces because we're just so damn perfect for each other (I mean, we met under the weirdest circumstances, on an airplane that neither of us were even supposed to be on if it weren't for the lousy weather... in AUGUST...) But I still believe in waiting until I get my life together first.

[uber frau]

So who was Alyssa trying to please by taking college classes in the first place. Was she doing it because Erin is a student there? Did she go to secretly find a man or did she just want to get out of the house for a bit? .

I have feeling she was only encouraged to go to college because Erin 'needed' a chaperone.

[Tangy Bee]

Come on people, seriously? You can't 'look like a virgin'. What grade are we in here? Another startling revelation: even if John is not a virgin, that still doesn't mean he's any good at sex.

Awh come on Sing Sing, you know that doofus looks like a fumble in the dark virgin! Ha ha. Ya'll I'm serious about the virginal look. Yes it's possible to NOT look like a virgin. You can look like a tramp and still be a virgin, I realize this. Not trying to give him a hard time about virginity. Just more concerned about him knowing how to loose it. I have a REAL problem with Gil and Kelly giving that "book" to Erin and Chad a few weeks before marriage. Chad, Zach, and John are in their mid 20's. I might sound like I'm in grade school for my opinions...but don't ya'll think that's a little old to be getting circle time, sex advice?? Then again, Chad probably just went along with it to please his in laws. His dad is a doctor and SHOULD have given him info. long before his mid 20's!

[singsingsing]

Awh come on Sing Sing, you know that doofus looks like a fumble in the dark virgin! Ha ha. Ya'll I'm serious about the virginal look. Yes it's possible to NOT look like a virgin. You can look like a tramp and still be a virgin, I realize

Wow. There are simply no words.

[Tangy Bee]

Wow. There are simply no words.

Ok Sing Sing. I think John looks like a total stud. He might actually blow her mind once they get the hang of things. Now can someone give me their opinion about the "book". I promise you I'm more concerned about this Wheaton book than I am about John looking like a virgin. Oops.

[anjulibai]

Alyssa has 2 years on Kelly. Kelly's birthday (according to the Bates tumbler) is Oct. 26, 1966. Since Zach was born Dec. 30, 1988, Kelly was 22 when she had him and 21 and a half when she got pregnant.

Kelly has also had 4 miscarriages, at least some of which were caused by hormone imbalance.

Assuming this is something Alyssa will watch out for as she gets older, and medical science advances even more in preventing miscarriage, I could see Alyssa being capable of having 25 kids.

Which is really fucking scary. I hope, hope, hope, she doesn't have her mother's fertility and she and John use some sort of birth control (at least NFP).

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Alyssa is not having 25 kids. Women who WANT to do what Kelly did are extremely rare. It's 2014 and she's been exposed to enough of the real world that that can't be appealing to her. Right??

[Guest]

Wow. There are simply no words.

Lol! He definitely has a "doofus" look about him, but will after he's married too! That may be a byproduct of a sheltered life, or maybe even just the way he looks for pictures. Chad has that look in some pics too. The only thing that could maybe give you a clue about his status as a virgin might be his social interactions with Alyssa, which we have only seen in pictures, and even then, there's no possible way to know for sure. I'll take them at their word for it.

On the book, I wonder if now that there are older siblings available to have the sex talk, Gil and Kelly will stay out of it. They'll buy some books, but leave it to Erin and Whitney to counsel Alyssa and Chad and Zach to counsel John. Doesn't John also have married brothers or brothers-in-law?

[Tangy Bee]

Kelly didn't mention if they gave Zach & Whit the same book. Both couples have not been making love very long, but I'm sure they can offer a little advice. Hope Alyssa and Erin are close enough to be open and honest. Sometimes it's easier with a sibling. I'm just finding it hard to understand why parents would keep "young adults" ignorant until engagement. So much to be thrown at them at once.

[denimjumper]

Looks like her new father in law is loaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Web ... politician)

[Ralar]

If the Webster's are smart they'll step in and make sure it doesn't become turkey and olives on a stick at the reception.

They need all those guests to get $$ for the couples honeymoon.

I don't think the congressman will be very happy if the Bateses pass the plate at the reception, or the CD stand is resurrected for Alyssa and John's wedding.

[Arete]

Forget the sex talk. What these parents should be talking about with these super young and inexperienced couples is the reality of trying to forge a common life. They focus them so much on the "princess" day, when it is the day, week, month, and years after that are going to make or break a union.

Some Of those days are going to be hard. Boring. Stressful. There will be anger and hurt and frustration. Prayer is not going to make any of that go away. Neither will ignoring the difficulties. How can they in good conscience not prepare them for these realities in every marriage? Subpar educations, subpar socialization, subpar understanding of household management. And these people think they have something to teach the rest of the world about raising successful adults.

[Ralar]

Looks like her new father in law is loaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Web ... politician)

I didn't see anything about finances in that wiki article. He is a Ga Tech grad with a degree in electrical engineering (not a dumb guy). Since college he has worked in his family's HVAC company, which he now owns. Based on that, he appears to be a small business owner and maybe one of the less affluent members of congress. I haven't seen his balance sheet or financial disclosures, so I really don't know. But nothing in that article points to great wealth.

What I did notice, based on the bills he sponsored, is that he tows the ATI party-line: homeschooling, governmental rape (ultrasound prior to abortion), etc.

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

I really think we are gorgetting or not taking into account the huge fundie speshul snowflake phenomenon when it comes to Alyssa and the rest of the fundie world. I remember growing up fundie and seeing the way those who had "married good" (good not well) were looked at. It was like just because so and so's husband was on such and such board their family could do no wrong and were shining examples of "Christ love". It was sickening to me even as a young person. I think that since Alyssa has grown up in this lifestyle it is highly likely that she sees marrying John as 1) a sign from god and 2) an opportunity to show the rest of the fundie world just how speshul a snowflake she really is. If that is the case I can easily see her going the route of having a ton of kids. It gives her "prestige", attention, importance etc.

I think this is likely to happen especially given the huge push towards a fundie overthrow of the gov. Their whole agenda is to raise up soldiers for God so that they can take over. Of course she is going to want to have as many soldiers as she can and you can bet they will be encouraged aka "feel a burden" to run for politics.

[Megan]

If he has political ambitions, I imagine that they'll have to decide between being in the political realm and being a super-sized quiverfull family, should her fertility match her mother's. Quite frankly, politicians can have larger-than-average families, but they won't have giant ones. A glance through the wikipedia pages of US senators shows that John McCain has the most children at 7. There were one or two with 6 kid and a good number with 5 (mostly republicans). Most, however, have 2-3.

I'm far too lazy to look at how many kids people in the House have, but I doubt it's a lot (House requires constant campaigning!). If you live in a district that isn't particularly competitive, I guess it'd be possible, but I don't think we'll ever have tons of quiverfull politicians, for which I am very thankful.

[laila_lea]

As a person around Alyssa's age [i turn 19 tomorrow], her love of all things wedding/princess has made me realise that school formals [proms, to those in the US/Canada] can serve an important purpose for young women. Whilst I certainly believe there are lots of things Alyssa, and other young people raised in ATI/IFB circles, miss out on [academics, solo travel, hobbies, work etc] formals and the like can really serve to satisfy the yearnings of some girls for those big 'princess' moments. When I was 17 I did my Debutante Ball [i think a 'Cotillion Ball' in the US?] and school formal [prom] with a month of eachother. At my school, and most schools in Australia, there is only of these events per class, upon graduation, so they are very special and highly anticipated. Whilst I do look forward to getting married one day, having these events has allowed me to have the big princess experience without making a huge commitment and lifestyle change. I wish Alyssa had the same chance to experience other formal events :( [not to mention the million other more important things in life]

[notachance]

As a person around Alyssa's age [i turn 19 tomorrow], her love of all things wedding/princess has made me realise that school formals [proms, to those in the US/Canada] can serve an important purpose for young women. Whilst I certainly believe there are lots of things Alyssa, and other young people raised in ATI/IFB circles, miss out on [academics, solo travel, hobbies, work etc] formals and the like can really serve to satisfy the yearnings of some girls for those big 'princess' moments. When I was 17 I did my Debutante Ball [i think a 'Cotillion Ball' in the US?] and school formal [prom] with a month of eachother. At my school, and most schools in Australia, there is only of these events per class, upon graduation, so they are very special and highly anticipated. Whilst I do look forward to getting married one day, having these events has allowed me to have the big princess experience without making a huge commitment and lifestyle change. I wish Alyssa had the same chance to experience other formal events :( [not to mention the million other more important things in life]

in some fundie circles they have "purity balls," which only serve to reinforce the idea of the princess wedding