It's not Christmas until you bring up a rotting carcass.

[formergothardite]

A question that popped into my mind that perhaps Josiah could help answer. Why is it that so many of the people we talk about are totally unwilling to discuss their beliefs with people who don't agree with them? Why do they view being disagreed with as persecution? Take the Anonymous Antagonist who is also a friend of Raquel, we had legitimate, Bible based problems with what he was saying, yet he went straight to calling us old hags and talking about he "haters." In fact, ignoring people who don't agree with him is on his list of New Year's resolutions. Why is it, Josiah, that so many Christians are absolutely terrified to have deep discussions about their beliefs and answer the tough questions? My personal opinion is because their faith is shallow and they are afraid that if they look too deep they will realize they don't really know why they believe what they believe and they might lose their faith. But it would be interesting to find out what you think, since you did actually have the nerve to come here.

[Swamptribe]

Josiahw, are you ever going to get around to honestly answering the questions that have been asked of you here? Or, are you just going to continue to dance around some more. If you either can't, or are afraid of honestly answering the questions asked, then why are you wasting everyone's time.

If you need to pick on question at a time, and address it separately.

Unless of course, you think somehow you are going to proselytize to the posters here? Which, from your answers, seems like your real purpose.

PS, one of the things that I enjoy about Freejinger, and that keeps me more or less lurking, is that there are so many Christians who post here (many Fundie lite) who have no qualms about discussing the tough questions asked about their religion.

[Witsec7]

This is the same old fundy dance. The come into the FJ house and want to discuss their positions, which are usually parroted and not well thought out. They never answer any real questions, just reply with time worn platitudes. Meh.

[meow139]

OMA, I read that and vomited all over my dog.

[celestial]

@celestial, I believe that if you were made alive in Christ you would turn. Crazier things have happened (Like God dying on a tree like a miser). I encourage you to pray, believe and repent. Most of all, cling to Jesus. He came here for unrepentant sinners like you, to soften their hearts, and make them repentant.

Well, then you believe wrong. I pray, believe, and repent (for sins that do not include being gay) on a daily basis. My heart is as soft as a wooly lamb. And yep, I'm still gay! God made me this way and loves me this way. Why would I want it to be any different? I trust in his plan for me.

You poor child. It makes me sick that you've been indoctrinated into such hate, and are so brainwashed that you feel you have no choice but to hurl rocks at the head of a perfectly nice person. I feel for you, I really do. You didn't ask to be born into such a hellacious system. But you're an adult now and its your responsibility to make sure your beliefs are something you can stand behind. I encourage you to continue exploring and challenging what you believe.

[Guest Anonymous]

celestial - you're a lovely person. Your ability to have compassion for someone that would hurt you if they could is humbling.

Josiah, maybe you could take a note or something. That's what being a decent human being looks like. It's also what actually following the words of Jesus looks like.

Luke 6:27 - 28

But I say unto you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you.

[Guest Anonymous]

@celestial, I believe that if you were made alive in Christ you would turn. Crazier things have happened (Like God dying on a tree like a miser). I encourage you to pray, believe and repent. Most of all, cling to Jesus. He came here for unrepentant sinners like you, to soften their hearts, and make them repentant.

Josiah, do you really believe that Jesus died on a tree as a 'miser'? Was it a function of his miserly nature that he was too mean to love gay people? :whistle:

[celestial]

That's very kind of you, Lissar! And it means a lot, coming from you...you're one of my favorite posters. ;) I hope this boy will stick around on FJ and learn a thing or two.

[formergothardite]

I'm sure the reason he hasn't come back is because he has a real life, but I also wonder if he has told not to come here. Fundies don't like the followers to get into deep discussions like this. Leads to thinking and questioning and then, who knows what could happen.

[clarinetpower]

I just need to clarify to Josiah, who terribly misquoted me. Hot Topic is not an adjective, nor is it a noun referring to a topic. It's a store in the mall where the wannabes shop to look tough and goth. A "Hot Topic Goth" is kind of like what we used to see in the upper midwest when I was a kid--people wearing khakis, topsiders, and Polo shirts with the collars flipped up and pretending they'd just stepped off their yacht in the Hamptons, when in reality they probably had scraped cow dung off their shoes after getting off their tractor. (This is not a slam on farmers, just a slam on posers.)

I totally get why you would completely miss this reference.

/sidebar

[Rosesp]

haha, I am probably (at least a little bit) one of those too.

[Rosesp]

Josiah, do you really believe that Jesus died on a tree as a 'miser'? Was it a function of his miserly nature that he was too mean to love gay people? :whistle:

Who said he does not love gay people?

[Rosesp]

A question that popped into my mind that perhaps Josiah could help answer. Why is it that so many of the people we talk about are totally unwilling to discuss their beliefs with people who don't agree with them? Why do they view being disagreed with as persecution? Take the Anonymous Antagonist who is also a friend of Raquel, we had legitimate, Bible based problems with what he was saying, yet he went straight to calling us old hags and talking about he "haters." In fact, ignoring people who don't agree with him is on his list of New Year's resolutions. Why is it, Josiah, that so many Christians are absolutely terrified to have deep discussions about their beliefs and answer the tough questions? My personal opinion is because their faith is shallow and they are afraid that if they look too deep they will realize they don't really know why they believe what they believe and they might lose their faith. But it would be interesting to find out what you think, since you did actually have the nerve to come here.

Agreed.

[Witsec1]

Who said he does not love gay people?

OK, you believe he loves gay people, but you also believe that they should be stoned if they are "unrepentant". Can you answer who would be stoning the gay people who don't accept your version of chrisianity?

[Rosesp]

Why are you calling it treachery? You said earlier that you believe it's a just and deserved punishment for sin. Do you know what treachery means?

The questions matter because you are advocating killing some of us. Perhaps you could stop being so flippant about that. It isn't funny. Do you think Jesus would joke around about killing people? The definition of legalism is the strict, literal adherence to the law or to a particular code, as of religion or morality. Isn't that what you want? Strict adherence to the law?

You can't have it both ways. You don't get to say that the Bible is the ultimate authority and then turn around and chastise us for assuming that you mean it. Do you think people should follow the Bible strictly or not? Why are we the legalists in this situation and you are not? I'm not advocating following Old Testament law, you are.

Not some of us, all of us. Your questions are legalistic, trying to figure out how "to live the right way" and "do the right thing" Christianity is not about that. It is about faith in Christ. Holiness comes to each of us as a result, never the other way around, or you are quite the hypocrite. Living a holy life without Jesus, who is the only way to holiness?

[Rosesp]

See, answers like this are why people talk about you "just being a 19 year old kid".

You didn't answer my question. Would you stone Celestial? From what I can tell she isn't going to fake being straight, so would you stone her? You were the one who brought this up, don't try and wiggle out of answering. It just makes it look like you don't want to own your beliefs.

Can't I be a little snarky here too? sheeeeesh! I thought this place was called a quiver full of snark!

[formergothardite]

Can't I be a little snarky here too? sheeeeesh! I thought this place was called a quiver full of snark!

When you are dancing around answering question, no people aren't going to take you being snarky too well. You still aren't answering the question and I won't stop asking it. You were the one who brought up stoning gay people. So just answer the question.

[formergothardite]

Did you mean this line or not?

The few of them that would be, would be subjected to this tragic end of stoning,

Celestial has already said she is not going to repent of being gay, so would you advocate stoning her?

[Witsec1]

If God rules the hearts and minds of the people of a nation, sodomy would not be much of a problem, and it would be socially unacceptable. The few of them that would be, would be subjected to this tragic end of stoning, provided they are sans repentance.

Passive voice:

The gays would be subjected to stoning,

Active voice:

_________ would subject the gays to stoning.

Can you fill in the blank in the active voice sentence?

[Rosesp]

OK, you believe he loves gay people, but you also believe that they should be stoned if they are "unrepentant". Can you answer who would be stoning the gay people who don't accept your version of chrisianity?

For one, unrepentant people will be sent to hell. I believe it is possible to live with homosexual attractions, and yet be truly repentant, fighting with that sin your whole life, and be saved. If you don't fight with sin, you are not turning from it. In that case you are not repentant.

For another, why would many people be sodomites in a Christian society? You know there would be a few, and they would be 'in the closet,' and if they were caught for their sin, and unrepentant after rebuke from the church, as well as help and counsel of course, they would be given over to the state to be tried, and sentenced to whatever the state sentences them to.

[Rosesp]

Did you mean this line or not?

The few of them that would be, would be subjected to this tragic end of stoning,

Celestial has already said she is not going to repent of being gay, so would you advocate stoning her?

I hate to sound completely rude, but yes. But I would not want to. Never in a thousand years, but that is the cold hard truth.

[formergothardite]

"Let him without sin cast the first stone." Jesus would totally stone people.

[Rosesp]

Oh. my. You guys are so difficult

[formergothardite]

Oh. my. You guys are so difficult

How exactly. If you don't like those lines, take it up with Jesus.

[Rosesp]

Read Ephesians 6:5-9. It seems that brotherly love can be concurrent with slavery. I also want to stress that I do not believe slavery to be ideal, nor do I think it would be present in any sort of theocracy, especially a genuine one.

I must accept the other verses. I have no choice. Scary isn't it? The law kills us. (I take responsibility for not ever mentioning this) But God's grace is great. The law enslaves us, burns us at the stake, and it stones us. That is why Christianity is so scary. But you must remember that our saviour has come. Jesus said that to look at a woman to lust with her has committed adultery in his heart. I struggle with this. For this one offense I should have been stoned just about every day. That does not mean I am not repentant for it. I constantly have to turn from it, constantly beg for mercy, and constantly have to cling to Jesus. When I am given victory over sin, I rejoice, and thank God. Theocracy would have very few of said problems, because it would never work in a society like ours, nor would it be a good thing. The society has to change, and men will build their brothers up, and encourage each other to put away our sins, in grace and humility. Jesus himself walked among the grime of that days society: tax-collectors, whores, and beggars. He was hung on the cross with thieves. His mercy is greater than his law.

@celestial, I believe that if you were made alive in Christ you would turn. Crazier things have happened (Like God dying on a tree like a miser). I encourage you to pray, believe and repent. Most of all, cling to Jesus. He came here for unrepentant sinners like you, to soften their hearts, and make them repentant.

"Well hung Christmas Lights" is a family business in the area. You would have to know the owner. :lol:

Bolding is, of course, mine.