It's not Christmas until you bring up a rotting carcass.

[Rosesp]

Read Ephesians 6:5-9. It seems that brotherly love can be concurrent with slavery. I also want to stress that I do not believe slavery to be ideal, nor do I think it would be present in any sort of theocracy, especially a genuine one.

I must accept the other verses. I have no choice. Scary isn't it? The law kills us. (I take responsibility for not ever mentioning this) But God's grace is great. The law enslaves us, burns us at the stake, and it stones us. That is why Christianity is so scary. But you must remember that our saviour has come. Jesus said that to look at a woman to lust with her has committed adultery in his heart. I struggle with this. For this one offense I should have been stoned just about every day. That does not mean I am not repentant for it. I constantly have to turn from it, constantly beg for mercy, and constantly have to cling to Jesus. When I am given victory over sin, I rejoice, and thank God. Theocracy would have very few of said problems, because it would never work in a society like ours, nor would it be a good thing. The society has to change, and men will build their brothers up, and encourage each other to put away our sins, in grace and humility. Jesus himself walked among the grime of that days society: tax-collectors, whores, and beggars. He was hung on the cross with thieves. His mercy is greater than his law.

@celestial, I believe that if you were made alive in Christ you would turn. Crazier things have happened (Like God dying on a tree like a miser). I encourage you to pray, believe and repent. Most of all, cling to Jesus. He came here for unrepentant sinners like you, to soften their hearts, and make them repentant.

"Well hung Christmas Lights" is a family business in the area. You would have to know the owner. :lol:

[Rosesp]

I am not hyper calvinist. Salvation is in Jesus alone, not calvinism, methodism, or Catholicism. I want to refer you again to C. S. Lewis' opinion as he laid out in Mere Christianity. I agree with him pretty closely.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am not hyper calvinist. Salvation is in Jesus alone, not calvinism, methodism, or Catholicism. I want to refer you again to C. S. Lewis' opinion as he laid out in Mere Christianity. I agree with him pretty closely.

I decline to be referred to C.S. Lewis. I've read him. I'm asking you. Why do you state that Christians have no choice if you aren't a Calvinist? Or are you dicking around with semantics by saying you aren't a "hyper Calvinist" because you consider yourself a regular Calvinist?

If Jesus' grace is so much greater than the law, why are you harping on about the law and not about grace? Why do you deserve mercy when you don't want to extend it to other people? It's awfully easy to condemn people to death for something that you have never struggled with, isn't it? When did you choose to be straight and love/lust after women, Josiah?

[formergothardite]

Those verses still don't explain how you CAN OWN A PERSON LIKE A PIECE OF FURNITURE and still claim they are equal to you. You cannot love someon like you love yourself and deny them freedom. And you have yet to shown how that can be done. Why should we want to share your faith if you would be okay with enslaving us?

And I need to find the video someone posted some time back about all the contradictions in the Bible.

[Guest Anonymous]

The society has to change, and men will build their brothers up, and encourage each other to put away our sins, in grace and humility. Jesus himself walked among the grime of that days society: tax-collectors, whores, and beggars. He was hung on the cross with thieves. His mercy is greater than his law.

Well, when are you going to start acting with grace and humility? When are you going to walk among the whores and beggars and build them up? When are you going to stop being a dick and start acting like Jesus? Do you know what Jesus had to say about gay people? Oh right - nothing. But he had a whole lot to say about taking care of poor people. I assume you spend most of your time doing that? No?

[formergothardite]

Found it!

RB3g6mXLEKk

[Witsec1]

The few of them that would be, would be subjected to this tragic end of stoning, provided they are sans repentance.

Can you clarify who would be doing the stoning in this scenario?

[Aeryn406]

Read Ephesians 6:5-9. It seems that brotherly love can be concurrent with slavery. I also want to stress that I do not believe slavery to be ideal, nor do I think it would be present in any sort of theocracy, especially a genuine one.

I must accept the other verses. I have no choice. Scary isn't it? The law kills us. (I take responsibility for not ever mentioning this) But God's grace is great. The law enslaves us, burns us at the stake, and it stones us. That is why Christianity is so scary. But you must remember that our saviour has come. Jesus said that to look at a woman to lust with her has committed adultery in his heart. I struggle with this. For this one offense I should have been stoned just about every day. That does not mean I am not repentant for it. I constantly have to turn from it, constantly beg for mercy, and constantly have to cling to Jesus. When I am given victory over sin, I rejoice, and thank God. Theocracy would have very few of said problems, because it would never work in a society like ours, nor would it be a good thing. The society has to change, and men will build their brothers up, and encourage each other to put away our sins, in grace and humility. Jesus himself walked among the grime of that days society: tax-collectors, whores, and beggars. He was hung on the cross with thieves. His mercy is greater than his law.

@celestial, I believe that if you were made alive in Christ you would turn. Crazier things have happened (Like God dying on a tree like a miser). I encourage you to pray, believe and repent. Most of all, cling to Jesus. He came here for unrepentant sinners like you, to soften their hearts, and make them repentant.

"Well hung Christmas Lights" is a family business in the area. You would have to know the owner. :lol:

Re: the bolded sentences. -- But, what if we lived in a place where you really, honestly could be physically stoned to death for this crime, per the laws of the land? For all the talk about living righteously and being a Christ-like person, wouldn't it terrify you to know that for one little mistake - you could die in a slow and agonizing way? Have you ever seen any of the videos of people (mostly women) being stoned? Do you know the actual process involved? Please, please research it - and there will be graphic warnings b/c all of the photos and videos will be gory.

Speaking metaphorically about suffering for our sins is one thing, but when you realize that there are people who really do get dragged from their homes and publically murdered for "crimes of morality", it makes me very, very thankful that I do not live in a country that does this!

[debrand]

It is easier to tell another person that God wil change their same sex attraction when you aren't gay. There are many instances of Christians trying to overcome an attraction to their own sex, even marrying and having children with a member of the opposite sex. The problem is that at some point, living a lie catches up with the person. Either they have an affair or they leave their spouse. Prayers and faith does not change them, although they might be able to fake it for awhile. A lot of pain and heartache would be saved if people didn't feel guilty about admitting that they were homosexual.

When I was your age, I had a conversation with a lesbian cousin that really changed my viewpoint. Being a rude, smart ass kid, I asked why she just didn't choose to be straight. She told me that she wanted to be straight(remember this was the eighties) and to not feel different from other people.She couldn't be honest with her religious mother and share the joy of introducing her girlfriend to the family. Yet, she simply could not be straight. She was gay. That was just the way that she was. Perhaps if you had looked into this young woman's eyes and realized that she was being honest, you'd understand that for most homosexuals same sex attraction is not a choice.

[formergothardite]

But would you or would you not stone celestial to death if she decided that she was not going to pretend to to be gay? Do you think Jesus would be cheering you on as you flung stones at her head until you killed her?

[debrand]

That is why Christianity is so scary. :

I don't find Christianity frightening as long as the practitioners are concentrating on their own souls and not others.

The way you describe your faith isn't scary though, just depressing.

You didn't answer my question. What is your definition of sodomy? Does it only include anal sex or does oral count as sodomy? I've known some people who think that anything fun is forbidden.

What about a consenting married couple? Would they be stoned for having anal sex?

How would nonChristian fare in a theocracy? Would they be pushed into special ghettos or forbidden to do business with Christians? How would you determine who was a real Christian? Would Catholics be nonChristian?

[debrand]

But would you or would you not stone celestial to death if she decided that she was not going to pretend to to be gay? Do you think Jesus would be cheering you on as you flung stones at her head until you killed her?

It is a good question.

There have been studies done that show that children born to mothers who have already given birth to several kids have a higher chance of being gay. So one of your youngest brothers has a higher statistical chance of not being attracted to girls. This doesn't mean that one of you little brothers will automatically be gay just that there is a higher chance that they will be.

Imagine that your youngest brother comes to you and says,"I've tried to be straight and I can't stop being attracted to men." Would you be one of the ones to stone him? Could you stand by while he died a slow and painful death?

[thoughtful]

Found it!

RB3g6mXLEKk

That's great!

This, from the same source, seems appropriate, as well:

uC91GYEumyA

[formergothardite]

I have never had Christianity as described as scary to me. I've always heard words like "peaceful", "freeing", or "joyful". Scary is a huge turn off.

[debrand]

You also never answered how stoning gays won't bring back stoning rape victims. Are you for stoning rape victims, Josiah? Do you think that men should go to war and forcibly bring brides home to marry? I quoted verses in my other posts that biblically support these practices. If you are for bringing one Old Testament practice back, why not the rest?

By the way, have you read your bible all the way through? If not, can I sugget that you start at the beginning with a notebook and not to read it out of order. Write down contradictions and things that seem cruel. You'd be surprised at how many things will trouble you from the bible.

[Rosesp]

Re: the bolded sentences. -- But, what if we lived in a place where you really, honestly could be physically stoned to death for this crime, per the laws of the land? For all the talk about living righteously and being a Christ-like person, wouldn't it terrify you to know that for one little mistake - you could die in a slow and agonizing way? Have you ever seen any of the videos of people (mostly women) being stoned? Do you know the actual process involved? Please, please research it - and there will be graphic warnings b/c all of the photos and videos will be gory.

Speaking metaphorically about suffering for our sins is one thing, but when you realize that there are people who really do get dragged from their homes and publically murdered for "crimes of morality", it makes me very, very thankful that I do not live in a country that does this!

Me as well. I am aware of the bloody treachery this is. I focus on the law more I suppose because "in another family, I would totally be a Goth Hot Topic" :D Actually, on my blog, I always bring it back to the track of God and the gift of His Son.

To the rest of your posts, oy vey. You guys are thinking way legalistically. What do these questions even matter? My definition of sodomy is the act of two of the same sex to "give up the natural use" of the opposite sex "to commit what is shameful." (Romans 1:27)

SHUN THE NON-BELIEVERS! SHUUUUUUUUN!!!!!!!

YES I HATE FUN. I'M A FUNSUCKER. FUN SUCKS. lol

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Rosesp]

You also never answered how stoning gays won't bring back stoning rape victims. Are you for stoning rape victims, Josiah? Do you think that men should go to war and forcibly bring brides home to marry? I quoted verses in my other posts that biblically support these practices. If you are for bringing one Old Testament practice back, why not the rest?

By the way, have you read your bible all the way through? If not, can I sugget that you start at the beginning with a notebook and not to read it out of order. Write down contradictions and things that seem cruel. You'd be surprised at how many things will trouble you from the bible.

I am currently doing that. I am in Jeremiah.

I do not see how the woman was to be raped in the provided passage. I do not doubt that it most probably happened in many instances though. That doesn't make rape right.

[debrand]

My 15 year old daughter likes some dark imagery so you two would probably be friends. Well, she is an outspoken atheist so maybe not. :lol:

We aren't being legalistic but we are trying to show you that your suggestions would not work in reality. Many people would be unfairly hurt if Old Testament laws were followed. There is nothing in the New Testament about stoning gay people, by the way.

[Guest Anonymous]

Me as well. I am aware of the bloody treachery this is.

Why are you calling it treachery? You said earlier that you believe it's a just and deserved punishment for sin. Do you know what treachery means?

To the rest of your posts, oy vey. You guys are thinking way legalistically. What do these questions even matter?

The questions matter because you are advocating killing some of us. Perhaps you could stop being so flippant about that. It isn't funny. Do you think Jesus would joke around about killing people? The definition of legalism is the strict, literal adherence to the law or to a particular code, as of religion or morality. Isn't that what you want? Strict adherence to the law?

You can't have it both ways. You don't get to say that the Bible is the ultimate authority and then turn around and chastise us for assuming that you mean it. Do you think people should follow the Bible strictly or not? Why are we the legalists in this situation and you are not? I'm not advocating following Old Testament law, you are.

[Aeryn406]

Not to detract at all from the serious of the rape questions or the gay lifestyle questions, but there are other biblical "crimes" that are punishable by death. I ghost-hunt, read Tarot and crystals, work with Reiki healing and have (on my better psychic days!) gotten confimed messages from those who have crossed over. I know Clibbyjo makes a living from her psychic talent and I'm sure there are other FJers who have these powerful talents. There's a verse about not "suffering a witch to live" - which takes us right back to stoning. Josiah - could you honestly pick up a brick & hit me in the face with it for doing this?

*On a more positive note: One of my mentors pointed out the verse where Jesus said he would give his skills (energy healing, prophecy, spirit communication, etc) to the masses after his death, so we could continue to spread the positive energy. I like to believe that's why we all have psychic talent and just need to practice it & get better.

[debrand]

I am currently doing that. I am in Jeremiah.

I do not see how the woman was to be raped in the provided passage. I do not doubt that it most probably happened in many instances though. That doesn't make rape right.

God does not tell the Hebrews not to rape women who are war captives. (sorry for the double negatives in that sentence)You'd think that the same being who micromanaged how long after birth the Hebrews could have sex, would have thrown in something about making certain that war brides were willing to marry the men that had probably destroyed their homes.

My point is that the Old Testament is not really a good book to use to decide the laws in our country. You are the one, remember, who said that owning slaves was not ideal but also not a sin. You also mentioned stoning people.

[Witsec1]

You asked for writing advice. Here's a grammar lesson for you. You wrote:

The few of them that would be, would be subjected to this tragic end of stoning, provided they are sans repentance.

The bolded part is an example of passive voice. Verbs can have tense (past, present, future) and also voice (passive or active). The thing about passive voice is that it allows the writer to gloss over who or what is doing the action.

Active voice: The spirit-filled Christians stoned the unrepentant gays to death.

Passive voice: The unrepentant gays were stoned to death. (by whom???)

Can you put your sentence into active voice for me?

[formergothardite]

Me as well. I am aware of the bloody treachery this is. I focus on the law more I suppose because "in another family, I would totally be a Goth Hot Topic" :D Actually, on my blog, I always bring it back to the track of God and the gift of His Son.

To the rest of your posts, oy vey. You guys are thinking way legalistically. What do these questions even matter? My definition of sodomy is the act of two of the same sex to "give up the natural use" of the opposite sex "to commit what is shameful." (Romans 1:27)

SHUN THE NON-BELIEVERS! SHUUUUUUUUN!!!!!!!

YES I HATE FUN. I'M A FUNSUCKER. FUN SUCKS. lol

:lol: :lol: :lol:

See, answers like this are why people talk about you "just being a 19 year old kid".

You didn't answer my question. Would you stone Celestial? From what I can tell she isn't going to fake being straight, so would you stone her? You were the one who brought this up, don't try and wiggle out of answering. It just makes it look like you don't want to own your beliefs.

[debrand]

Have you ever had an indepth discussion with people who disagree with your interpretation of your faith before, Josiah? My guess is that most people are polite and don't contradict you.

Out of respect for you, we are taking your words seriously. If you say that you think gay people should be stoned, we are going to discuss why we disagree.

It sounds like you haven't really thought some of the consequences of your beliefs through. Could you really pick up a rock and stone a woman who had done nothing to you except love someone you disapproved? Would you stand by if your brother was going to be stoned for liking men? Do you advocate war brides be not given a choice about marrying their captors?

[formergothardite]

Debrand, I suspect he really hasn't had deep discussions about his beliefs with people who don't believe just like him. He is young, he was homeschooled it appears very poorly by just letting him study the Bible and he is working with his dad. Plus, as it has been pointed out before, irl, most people when told stuff like this will try and slowly back away.