It's not Christmas until you bring up a rotting carcass.

[Witsec7]

Ladies, ladies, ladies, lets not turn this into some warped hive confessional for the OP.

Lets return to the topic of abortion.

Will women with spontaneous abortions also be eligible for stoning?

[formergothardite]

Isn't there also an example in the Bible of the priest giving a pregnant woman who is accused of adultry something that will cause her to have a miscarriage or something like that?

[meda]

Reading this thread has clarified for me something I've been mulling over since the "do you hate fundamentalists" thread. I think if hate encompasses loathing and revulsion, then I do hate them. So many are like this ignorant, snot nosed child here. Anti intellectual, not very bright yet completely convinced they are special and have all the answers, and terrified of the "other" in such a primordial way that they are totally down with using Bronze Age justice to kill anybody they don't like. These people cheerfully contemplate my death for the glory of their god as though the past 2000 years never happened. WTF??

[Witsec7]

Reading this thread has clarified for me something I've been mulling over since the "do you hate fundamentalists" thread. I think if hate encompasses loathing and revulsion, then I do hate them. So many are like this ignorant, snot nosed child here. Anti intellectual, not very bright yet completely convinced they are special and have all the answers, and terrified of the "other" in such a primordial way that they are totally down with using Bronze Age justice to kill anybody they don't like. These people cheerfully contemplate my death for the glory of their god as though the past 2000 years never happened. WTF??

This

[formergothardite]

Found it! Numbers 5:11-28. Basically if you committed adultery and got pregnant, the priest would give you something that would kill the fetus. Yeah, kind of like an abortion, except the women didn't get to choose it and it was a punishment.

[ladypuglover]

While you're stoning folks might as well as stone me too. I divorced my ex-husband after he beat the ever living snot out of me and our 2 infant sons. He wouldn't allow me to attend any church or speak to any Christians. He tried very hard and failed to make me abort my 2nd son to the point of trying to beat the baby out of me. He punched our oldest full on in the face at only 6 months of age. He cheated on me with teenagers. He slept with my bridesmaid when I gave birth to our second son. He starved me during my pregnancies to the point of me losing teeth. He almost killed me and my 2 oldest sons until one night I escaped through a window with just my 2 babies during a blizzard. I was only wearing a flannel nightgown under my coat and had each tiny baby wrapped up tight with only few baby suplies in a diaper bag. I was barefoot and ran for my life because he was going to kill us that night. I never went home again after that night.

I also met shortly there after my now husband. A christian man who has been an active father to all 5 of our sons and he adopted my oldest 2. My oldest sons have never known any other father since they were 15 and 3 months old. They are very thankfull that I was able to escape that night with them and found a new, better, safe life for all of us.

But I divorced my first husband. That would be one stone hurled at my head.

I remarried, better throw another stone.

I had children from that 2nd marriage. 3 more stones.

I slept with my second husband before I was fully divorced from my first. A stone.

I had my 3rd son out of wedlock to my second husband because I was terrified to remarry and be trapped. A huge stone.

I will refuse to be sorry for divorcing my first husband and saving my sons lives. The stone to kill me.

Would you have had me follw these laws of staying with a man who was in the act of trying to kill not only me but 2 infants? Does it matter that my ex is a member of a cult? Does it matter that I made a better life with a man who loves us? Does it matter that he is of the same faith as me?

Think, if you had had your way 3 lives would have died and do you want that blood on your hands?

[Rosesp]

Yes, I have read it. I do NOT agree with all of the amendments completely.

As for the 8th: I find no problem with it. I do not see how it gets in the way of putting criminals to death, though. By stoning, yes. So I am not certain 100% what I think of this amendment, besides the fact that you are right, stoning is at least cruel. Since it is the law of God, I can't say that it is unusual.

@formergothardite, what, do you think I am trying to set up some theocratic shun the nonbeliever crap? In no way. I would like to remind you that that was a different time. It was before the coming of Jesus. A Christian theocracy is going to look much different than a Hebrew theocracy, but it will still have similarities. It's not about bashing heads in. It's about bringing people life. The men and women who do not wish to have the light of men (John 1) will be cast into the outer darkness forever, whether or not we punish them.

Do you have a problem with putting to death murderers because they really think that the greater good is served without that person around? Or that that person is worth less than themselves? Don't you know the kinds of things children and young men and women have to deal with when they are groomed for homosexuality? All because someone else decided to expose them to that sort of crap, or because some father failed in his job, training his children in the fear and admonition of Yahweh, or because they were sent mixed messages of sexuality from someone who did something wrong? Sodomy is not just spontaneous in most cases.

[debrand]

Israel. But not completely. It was made of men still. And men are sinful. The Bible never lets us forget that.

edited because is is present tense. I was talking about the past.

Ancient Israel had slaves, rape victims could be stoned for not screaming loud enough, not keeping the Sabbath was reason to put someone to death... Are you certain that this is the type of theocracy that we should emulate?

31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 

We are trying to make you look honestly at what you are advocating.

[formergothardite]

If someone murders me, I don't want them to be put to death. Death is the easy way out. I want them to live a long life, not being tortured, but not being giving lots of comfort. So yeah, I do have a problem with the death penalty. Especially since I did a report in college about how many people are put to death under circumstancial evidence. College, it can teach you a lot.

So would you stone me? i am not repenting of anything I did.

[debrand]

Yes, I have read it. I do NOT agree with all of the amendments completely.

As for the 8th: I find no problem with it. I do not see how it gets in the way of putting criminals to death, though. By stoning, yes. So I am not certain 100% what I think of this amendment, besides the fact that you are right, stoning is at least cruel. Since it is the law of God, I can't say that it is unusual.

@formergothardite, what, do you think I am trying to set up some theocratic shun the nonbeliever crap? In no way. I would like to remind you that that was a different time. It was before the coming of Jesus. A Christian theocracy is going to look much different than a Hebrew theocracy, but it will still have similarities. It's not about bashing heads in. It's about bringing people life. The men and women who do not wish to have the light of men (John 1) will be cast into the outer darkness forever, whether or not we punish them.

Do you have a problem with putting to death murderers because they really think that the greater good is served without that person around? Or that that person is worth less than themselves? Don't you know the kinds of things children and young men and women have to deal with when they are groomed for homosexuality? All because someone else decided to expose them to that sort of crap, or because some father failed in his job, training his children in the fear and admonition of Yahweh, or because they were sent mixed messages of sexuality from someone who did something wrong? Sodomy is not just spontaneous in most cases.

My head hurts from trying to reason with you.

There have been people on death row who were discovered innocent through DNA. Because of the possibility of innocence, I am not pro death penalty but I do think that there should be a way to ensure that life sentences should be for life. There is a difference between an injection and stoning people.

Groomed for homosexuality? Were you groomed for heterosexuality? Did you not read the comments from Celestial that she wasn't made gay? You can't make someone gay or straight. That is just the way that they are.

You need to get out in the world and actually meet homosexuals. Some of them are in the military fighting for your freedom, others are your doctors and your mail people. They don't look or act that different from anyone else.

[Guest Anonymous]

Don't you know the kinds of things children and young men and women have to deal with when they are groomed for homosexuality? All because someone else decided to expose them to that sort of crap, or because some father failed in his job, training his children in the fear and admonition of Yahweh, or because they were sent mixed messages of sexuality from someone who did something wrong? Sodomy is not just spontaneous in most cases.

And you know this information how? Were you personally "groomed for homosexuality?" How many gay people do you know? Did they tell you this? Citation/proof or admit this is bullshit that you either made up or someone else made up and you regurgitated.

**ETA: Was crossposting with debrand.

[thoughtful]

OTFlE-Vzucc

[Witsec1]

And you know this information how? Were you personally "groomed for homosexuality?" How many gay people do you know? Did they tell you this? Citation/proof or admit this is bullshit that you either made up or someone else made up and you regurgitated.

**ETA: Was crossposting with debrand.

Yep, citation needed. In her life, my teen daughter has had gay friends, gay teachers, friends with gay parents, a gay mayor, a gay state rep., the annual gay pride parade (we always go to see SF Cheer's fantastic act) and she is a member of her school's Gay-Straight Alliance. If gay was catching, she'd be gay. But she's not. Her friends with 2 mommies - also not gay.

Consensual sex != murder

[formergothardite]

How exactly do gay people hurt you, Josiah?

Edited to mess with people's heads and to say:

Weren't the people who were getting ready to stone that women Jesus stopped obeying the Law? So it seems that by wanting to stone people, Josiah is not doing what Jesus would do, he is doing what the people Jesus spoke out against would do. It is like he is leaving out the Christ in CHRISTian.

[Rosesp]

They don't hurt me. Why do you ask?

PS I love Bob Dylan, one of my favorites! When I establish the UTA (United Theocracy of America) That will be our anthem. (

you guys just don't get it.

[formergothardite]

If they don't hurt you, then why do you want to stone them like murderers?

And if we don't get it, it is because you are doing such a very poor job of explaining how you advocate stoning people when Jesus clearly told people that only those without sin should throw stones. Or how you can treat a person as you treat yourself all while saying that you own them.

And I would still like to know if you would stone me.

[Witsec1]

No, I don't get why you need to threaten people with slow cruel execution by the state, in order to get them to follow the rules of your religion.

[onlyorganic]

Is this guy still talking?

[Rosesp]

Nope. I'm done.

[formergothardite]

That is pretty typical with fundies. When they get backed into a corner, they flounce rather than try and explain.

[Rosesp]

That is pretty typical with fundies. When they get backed into a corner, they flounce rather than try and explain.

:roll:

[Witsec7]

I wonder if Jesus would flounce?

[formergothardite]

Seriously, Jesus was not on your side. He wouldn't have stoned the gays. And slavery is in clear violation of Jesus' second commandment. And you have failed to prove otherwise.

[formergothardite]

:roll:

Isn't this what you are doing? I still would like to know if you would stone me.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if Jesus would flounce?

Right after he picked up a stone and flug it at someone's head or forced someone into slavery.