Maxwell 57: Planning Mary's Wedding

[Baxter]

I had a destination wedding in Maui. I didn't want a huge wedding and I didn't want a dance at the reception. The idea of having to dance at my wedding made me really anxious. I don't like dancing at other people's weddings so why would i want to have everyone watching me dance at my own.

My husband and I both loved Maui so it was a great choice with the side benefits of being smaller and no dance. My parents, who generously paid for the wedding, also loved Maui and were thrilled to have it there. They probably spent what they would have for a larger wedding at home. But it was really lovely and just what I wanted. There was no pressure on anyone to attend but we ended up with 50 people. We had an open bar and a sit down meal with music playing. But the whole thing was done by around 10pm which is right around when I usually want to leave other people's weddings. It was the perfect wedding for me and my husband. My parents considered it money well spent. People shouldn't feel pressure to have one particular kind of wedding. Do what works for you as long as you are providing proper hospitality to your guests. 

 

[Maggie Mae]

9 minutes ago, Hane said:

In the Pleistocene, we commonly had bridal showers in somebody’s living room, and brides got gifts like towels and a laundry basket full of cleaning supplies. It was a simpler time.

I think some of it comes from people marrying later. In the early 70s, the average age for women was 21. In 2017 (the last year I can find data without spending more than a minute) it was 29. 

Almost every wedding I've been to in my 30s is other 30 years old marrying 30 year olds, deciding which house is going to be the airbnb/long term rental or sold, and selling/donating furniture and meging piles of already existing home goods. So instead of doing a bridal shower with a registry and picking out dishes and towels, we went on trips to Vegas or Napa or Hawaii. (All of which have inexpensive daily flights from our location, and Vegas also has incredibly inexpensive lodging) 

We did the Hawaii wedding dirt cheap. My friends got married after Ironman, on the beach. It was $200 for the officiant license, they wore beach clothes, we found flowers in the kona marketplace and had dinner at a little restaurant on the beach. Her parents sold their condo during covid so no more free housing, boo. It was a really great time, we danced and drank and celebrated. No push up contests and I don't think anyone even ate cake. 

 

[feministxtian]

I think my "wedding" was the best...60 bucks plus lunch after the ceremony. The only "guests" were my kids. Got married, went out for lunch, went home and I went to work at 4pm that day. 

This year is the year we were sort of planning for the big shindig...it would be our 25th anniversary. I mean, after 25 years of marriage we thought we deserved the big party and "vowel" renewal. I think I'm going to take that day off work and celebrate the almost 21 years we had. 

[GreenBeans]

35 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Almost every wedding I've been to in my 30s is other 30 years old marrying 30 year olds, deciding which house is going to be the airbnb/long term rental or sold, and selling/donating furniture and meging piles of already existing home goods.

But do people only move in together after marriage in the US? I agree, most people in my circle get married in their 30s. But at that point they’ve typically been together and lived together for years. I also agree that at some point, when moving in together, they need to merge two households (because most people have lived alone / independently with other people at that point and aren’t moving in together with a partner directly from their parents’ house, so they already have all their own furniture and household goods). But yeah, that usually happens long before marriage, not after, in my experience.

[Black Aliss]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:49 AM, danvillebelle said:

Our son and DIL showed up at our house and announced they were married. 

I got the announcement in the form of a text message and a photo while I was at work!

Edited June 16, 2023 by Black Aliss

[Maggie Mae]

3 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

But do people only move in together after marriage in the US? I agree, most people in my circle get married in their 30s. But at that point they’ve typically been together and lived together for years. I also agree that at some point, when moving in together, they need to merge two households (because most people have lived alone / independently with other people at that point and aren’t moving in together with a partner directly from their parents’ house, so they already have all their own furniture and household goods). But yeah, that usually happens long before marriage, not after, in my experience.

I mean, it seems to me that it all sort of happens around the same time. They move in together, merge households, buy a house, get married. All sort of over a 1-2 year period. In various orders, but the main point was that the bridal shower in someone's living rooms with a gift registry of home goods isn't necessary for people in their 30s who've lived alone/together for a decade plus. It honestly kind of sucks that at no point did anyone buy me nice towels but if I really want new towels I can buy cheap ones at fred meyer or fly to Seattle and go to Nordstrom. 

And the weddings might seem lavish or the destination/travel unnecessary to some, but honestly most people marrying in their 30s are going to immediately try for kids and are prepared for the cost of ivf too. 

[hoipolloi]

9 hours ago, Hane said:

In the Pleistocene, we commonly had bridal showers in somebody’s living room, and brides got gifts like towels and a laundry basket full of cleaning supplies. It was a simpler time.

It sure was. We could not have imagined things like destination weddings.

Edited June 16, 2023 by hoipolloi

[JermajestyDuggar]

I got married in 2009 and lots of people had bridal showers in living rooms back then too. And we all got towels, sheets, baking pans, and laundry baskets as gifts. Big fancy wedding showers must be a newer thing. Or my friends and family were all old fashioned. 

[HeartsAFundie]

11 hours ago, Hane said:

@Maggie Mae, I’m an Old, who (had circumstances been different) would have celebrated my 50th wedding anniversary on June 1. That’s probably why I was unaware of the relative cheapness of things like video drones, smoke machines, light shows, and photo booths. I agree that there was a great deal of wasted food—in fact, after making the rounds of all the food stations, lots of people were taken aback by the plated dinner. And almost nobody ate the goodies from the dessert stations before leaving—they filled up the take-away boxes that were provided.

In the Pleistocene, we commonly had bridal showers in somebody’s living room, and brides got gifts like towels and a laundry basket full of cleaning supplies. It was a simpler time.

Until @Maggie Maebroke things down from an event planning perspective, I too was unaware that some of these seemingly extravagant items were not as costly as one would initially think.  I honestly have no issue with people spending money however they deem fit to do so-and like @mhainlen, I have no issue at all attending the pre-paid extravaganza-but when the backers are financially fearful and crying over the cost at the reception, that's a problem.    Like my cousin.  I know they're not rolling in dough like the folks I previously mentioned who happily dropped over 100K on their daughter.  I just don't see the point of it all just to keep up with the Joneses or to impress people that you hardly ever see.   But I realize that is my perspective and others may view it differently.    

But then again, if my cousin was that financially worried, he could have put his foot down and said "no".   Either way, it all boils down to choices.  

Edited June 16, 2023 by HeartsAFundie

[Hane]

Something I find interesting about the changes in bridal showers and wedding gifts over the past 50 years: In the ‘70s, most people in my circles married in their late teens and early 20s and didn’t live on their own before marriage, and almost none cohabitated before marriage. These young marrieds started off with relatively little, but the shower and wedding gifts were modest.

Now folks get married later, after completing their educations, establishing their careers, and living independently—but the wedding showers and gifts are far more opulent, even though the newlyweds have established homes.

In my idea of a perfect 21st-century world, it would be routine for us to throw “apartment showers” for young single people moving into their first grownup homes.

[Maggie Mae]

2 hours ago, Hane said:

Now folks get married later, after completing their educations, establishing their careers, and living independently—but the wedding showers and gifts are far more opulent, even though the newlyweds have established homes.

I personally think this might because of just changes in tastes, inflation, and the very real concern that two newlywed professional 30 somethings already have everything they need. Obviously the idea of opulent gifts varies from person to person and household to household, and is affected by economic class.

If I were to get married and do the whole wedding shower thing, I'd ask for cash or nothing. I don't think it's right for my mom's extended family, who (other than a few outliers) make significantly less and support more people than I do, to give me anything at all. Bad taste aside, I don't feel right taking gifts from people who can't really afford it. Especially since we don't really need anything that is normally on wedding lists. 

2 hours ago, Hane said:

In my idea of a perfect 21st-century world, it would be routine for us to throw “apartment showers” for young single people moving into their first grownup homes.

That would be nice. I think that the mobility - people in the US are moving more often than ever, even though we've always been a nation of people who move about - affects this as well. I didn't really need "stuff" until I moved out of the dorms, but then because of the recession I moved in with my family. Then I took a job across the country - and shipping was prohibitive when goods at the time were so inexpensive. I think the best thing that people can do is give cash/emergency funds for young people. That's what I needed when I was 25 and my car died and rent was due and my shared apartment was full of 4 people's worth of dishes and sheets and towels, and there was no public transportation. 

3 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

 know they're not rolling in dough like the folks I previously mentioned who happily dropped over 100K on their daughter.  I just don't see the point of it all just to keep up with the Joneses or to impress people that you hardly ever see. 

I mean, if you can afford it, you can afford it. But not everyone can, and people shouldn't throw that amount of money on a party that they are paying for themselves. I'd say fewer people really should be spending that amount of money on a party than are, as well. But it's their choice. 

My experience is with corporate stuff, so when I say "inexpensive" i mean relatively. One of the bonuses of corporate parties is that you can always find someone to pay for it. Photobooth? $500 rental for the day for the base model that people operate themselves, and that's a really cheap sponsorship for someone to slap their logo on and have their logo on people's desks and refrigerators. Drone? I know a guy and it seems like everyone has a drone these days. Someone wants to sponsor that? Easy. Logo and a thank you screen on the video, video goes on social media during event, likes come in and that's good publicity for both the drone people and the sponsorship. 

I just want to be clear that I am not a wedding planner. I've used wedding facilities, but I have zero interest in planning a wedding for money. I've helped with friends but they know it's not my thing. 

[Bastet]

  When my son got married it bothered me that he thought in terms of a trade off between the cost of the reception and the gifts he and his wife received. The guests should give enough to cover their share. I didn’t say anything, but I was upset by this. You have a reception to celebrate a wedding; you give a gift to celebrate a wedding, but there’s no tacit quid pro quo involved in my view.  Then my nephew got married, and because it was early on during Covid, they had the ceremony on a boat off the coast with just the wedding party which didn’t include me. They were obviously astonished when I gave them a gift, so I’m guessing my son’s attitude is not unusual. 
  

Edited June 16, 2023 by Bastet

[anniebgood]

I was 32 when I got married, almost all of my friends were married with kids. I met someone and we clicked. It's 38 years now and we're still together. 
My favorite shower that my choir gave us was a can shower. Everyone brought a can of something and a recipe attached. 
My folks set a $1000 limit on the wedding costs and we did stay in that. My dress was custom but only 300$. We bought all the food at Smart and Final and between my relatives and the friends who helped as caterers we had plenty of food for the reception. We bought all the decorations and hung them.  When we did the rehearsal, at the point where the pastor said who gives this woman ....... my dad said "her mother, I and the TWA credit Union." That made everyone laugh.

Neither of my kids seem to even care about getting married. My son has challenges and I don't think that he will ever get married. My daughter has said that if she meets someone and wants to get married, she'll get married at city hall and then fly out and surprise me. She's a no fuss kinda kid. 

 

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

16 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

But do people only move in together after marriage in the US? I agree, most people in my circle get married in their 30s. But at that point they’ve typically been together and lived together for years. I also agree that at some point, when moving in together, they need to merge two households (because most people have lived alone / independently with other people at that point and aren’t moving in together with a partner directly from their parents’ house, so they already have all their own furniture and household goods). But yeah, that usually happens long before marriage, not after, in my experience.

A lot of people move in before marriage. However in conservative religious circles, it is still taboo to move in before marriage. FJ fundies are extreme and less common, but the US has a lot of conservative religious people. Even among "mainstream religious conservatives" this would be true and it's much more common to move in together after the wedding. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My boys say they will never get married but they are 10 and 8. I don’t believe my older son. I bet he will get married and have kids. My younger son? I could see him living in our basement forever 😬

[Bethy]

6 hours ago, Hane said:

In my idea of a perfect 21st-century world, it would be routine for us to throw “apartment showers” for young single people moving into their first grownup homes.

That's a really great idea. I'm from a big family and my mom had amassed some kitchen basics (dishes, flatware, pots and pans) to help us get started in our first apartments, with the agreement being that when you got married and had shower/wedding gifts, you would give back the loaned items for the next sibling who needed them. It would be great to start out with quality housewares and kitchen stuff right from the start without having to feel like you had to get married in order to deserve nice things.

[Black Aliss]

7 hours ago, Hane said:

Something I find interesting about the changes in bridal showers and wedding gifts over the past 50 years: In the ‘70s, most people in my circles married in their late teens and early 20s and didn’t live on their own before marriage, and almost none cohabitated before marriage. These young marrieds started off with relatively little, but the shower and wedding gifts were modest.

Now folks get married later, after completing their educations, establishing their careers, and living independently—but the wedding showers and gifts are far more opulent, even though the newlyweds have established homes.

 

It must depend on your social circle. Apart from a couple of classmates who got pregnant on prom night, I didn't know anyone who got married in their late teens. Late 20's, yes. Those who married then lived together and/or owned a home. Early 30's, definitely and by then we (I fit this category) were homeowners and had been living together for a few years. 

That said, it's worthwhile to buy good towels. I am still using a couple of the ones I bought in 1975 and some I bought in 1999, and they aren't at all frayed, unlike ones I've bought in the last few years. 

[nvmbr02]

My oldest always said she didn't want to get married or have children. However, she met her boyfriend during her senior year of high school, and they attend the same university. They have been dating for almost 4 years now, and recently she started talking about future children. We have had several family weddings in the last couple of months, and in a conversation last week, she mentioned a possible future wedding date (3 years from now). They aren't formally engaged and both are still very young but it seems marriage has been discussed between the two of them.  

 

[FluffySnowball]

17 hours ago, Hane said:

Something I find interesting about the changes in bridal showers and wedding gifts over the past 50 years: In the ‘70s, most people in my circles married in their late teens and early 20s and didn’t live on their own before marriage, and almost none cohabitated before marriage. These young marrieds started off with relatively little, but the shower and wedding gifts were modest.

Now folks get married later, after completing their educations, establishing their careers, and living independently—but the wedding showers and gifts are far more opulent, even though the newlyweds have established homes.

In my idea of a perfect 21st-century world, it would be routine for us to throw “apartment showers” for young single people moving into their first grownup homes.

I think both of your observations are connected. People nowadays tend to get married once there are more established, yes. But that means that it’s likely most of their friends are at a similar stage in life and can afford to give more expensive gifts. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by FluffySnowball

[JermajestyDuggar]

I had a group of like 10 or so girlfriends in college and one actually got married between junior and senior year. The groom had just graduated. We were all 21 and very poor. So we all pooled our money together to buy her a set of lamps on her registry. I still can’t believe they got married before she graduated. But their families weren’t ok with living together before marriage. So I think that’s why. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Zebedee]

I'm 44, and only a few of my contemporaries were married before say, 28-29, mostly older. They'd all lived out from home pre marriage. Even the two friends who were very religious and got married a few days after finals had started to collect basic household stuff, just because they had lived in college and shared houses for 4 years. Of course, getting married at 22 also meant we couldn't afford much as wedding presents! They had relatively simple weddings, and no expectation of "getting back" the money spent. They also, as is normal, came from much smaller families, so guest lists were more like 100 people at a buffet and cash bar with a DJ, not 1000+ eating ice cream in a parking lot in winter, and we all chipped in on starter home stuff like towels, pans etc. I swear one friend and his wife used a set of towels from about 6 people, I know their cutlery set came from about 15 of us! (There was no local Ikea, which perhaps explains some stuff...)

One friend is divorced (and loved his stuff as a new single dad - not what you expect as the fate of a wedding present!), the other has upgraded their stuff considerably - and will pass on our stuff to their kids soon when they leave for college. As long as it all gets used, it's great. I know my parents got "generic" stuff (as in, we need/would like, but no specific online registries, some relatives had more cash than others...)at their wedding (they asked for a coffee set, for ex; they were given a beautiful one, that was fairly expensive, and has been rarely used; whenever we tried to use it, even as teenagers, it was all "oh, be careful..."; now it sits in a cupboard, hasn't been used for 25 years.)

I am going to a wedding in a few weeks, they are early 30s, they both work in finance in London (so, earn well over 10x what I + partner do), own a house there, and are throwing a very expensive party. They have been living together a few years, and have no register; we are getting them something that is hard to get in the UK, easy here, and that they have loved when visiting. It's about 100 euros, nowhere near "covering the plate", though, so I already feel slightly bad. Basically, though, maybe 5% of their friends could afford to buy them stuff that they don't already have - but they can also afford it for themselves. Very different to saying well we need some towels, and we'd like them in blue. To me, wedding registries are for stuff you need, like pots/pans etc, not future heirlooms. 

Mainly, with older friends' weddings, we have met/stayed friends with them through shared interests. In our case, it's mostly that we all love opera, especially Wagner - so we get them tickets for Bayreuth or something. We get to enjoy the gift with them, and it's a lot easier for us to get tickets than it is for them. It works well for many of our friends, who aren't wanting to start families soon (or ever!). 

I have often heard the adage that the wedding present should cover the plate; I sort of hate it. If I am inviting people to dinner, I am paying. I invite the SOs of my friends, but not their extended families (if I had millions of pounds, perhaps that would be different. Which is obv not the case with fundie weddings). That said, it can be a good guide. So, if you are in the same sort of earning range as your friends, and the wedding is about £200 pp, buying a single teaspoon is not on. But also, you do not need to feel pressured to buy the £1500 coffee machine... but if I throw a BYOB party, I also don't expect to supply gallons of cheap wine, and wake up to pints of single malt.

I will say, I am not, and have never been married. I have a visceral reaction against marriage; I don't really know where it comes from, not having been brought up particularly religiously, but every part of me rebels against the idea, despite the 23 year relationship I'm in. If we do ever get married, it'll be something like "EU decides to rescind residency rights of Brits" or something, so just a quick civil thing. We might still have a party  - but there will be no registry  At our ages, we have too much stuff. If we'd got married as 21 y.o.s after a pregnancy scare, with few household things, then our registry would have read stuff like "8 inch frying pan", "4x generic white plates" etc.

Is it really so common for weddings to be such a gift grab? Aside from fundie ones, where all bets are off (If I invite my fundie friend and her husband, and 15 family members I have never met come with them I might want a good present..). I am expecting that >90% are not - the bride/groom zillas are the ones who make online news.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

All the married people I know had lived together for a year or more before getting hitched, so the registry is really about upgrading your IKEA/Target junk in favor of the stuff you've always wanted, maybe finally getting that stand mixer you held off on. And in my circle at least there's not been a lot of pressure to send a gift; it's more for people who wish they could've come and wanted to make a gesture.

[MamaJunebug]

Aside from the fact that I unwittingly married a psychopathic narcissist my first (& only) time around, my wedding was weird.  

From age 13, I imagined it to be in the small chapel off to the side of our cathedral-wannabe church’s sanctuary. Just my folks’ extended families. Then a sitdown dinner with a string quartet.  No cheesy (JMHO) first dance or such. 
 

Then Big Mama Junebug for some reason went on a decade-long fret festival about what pretenders we were for living in a nice neighborhood where several (but not all) people belonged to country clubs and a lot of wives (but not all)  volunteered rather than work for the family business, like BMJB had to. 

By the time I was engaged at 27, I weirdly - but strongly - believed it was my duty to show our true colors by having a wedding straight out of Tony & Tina’s Wedding.  The spousal unit chose a powder blue tux. My 2 bridesmaids (only 2! Shameful! A REAL Tina would’ve had 7 at least) wore stupid matching, never wearable to any other event sundresses & picture hats. Tacky band and ordinary food in a middle-middle-class neighborhood hall away from our own  upperish-middle-class neighborhood. 
 

If I had it to do over, #1, I WOULD NOT.  But if I had it to do over, #2 the groom would NOT be the the s***-for-brains I chose the first time, #3 I’d ask the local Society of Friends (Quakers) to let us be married during one of their weekly services. At least, I understand that’s how they do, or used to do it. Prayers, hymns, wedding, hymns, sermon (?), etc. a part of everyday life. Official & simple. 

 

#4, Then invite errbody for the nice meal & the string quartet, either that afternoon or the following Saturday night. 
 

Please don’t misunderstand: my mom was GREAT, I’ve missed her every day since she passed 30+ years ago, I really think she’ll be the first person to meet me in Heaven. 
 

But DANG, weddings as social / religious / caste / statement events for the ages? No!! “No”in every language !!!

 

Reminds me: I need to trash my wedding photo album. It mocks me. I have the mini version of 5”-square photos if my kids ever need a good laugh. 
 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by MamaJunebug

[Loveday]

All this talk of wedding presents reminds me that I gave a friend of my daughter's a piece of vintage Pyrex as a wedding gift a few years ago. A nice big round casserole in white with a green 'square flowers' print on it. Late 60s, I think. It was in flawless condition, lid included, even if I did find it at a thrift store. I added some pretty kitchen towels and hot pads (new, not thrifted! LOL). 

I love giving really nice bath towels as bridal shower gifts. I like standing in front of the wall of towels in the store and choosing just the right color in bath and hand towels and wash cloths. Sometimes I add a pretty soap dish and toothbrush holder if I know the couple really well and can find them in the right style and color. I gave my daughter and her wife bath towels for their shower. We also gave them a Lladro from our collection that fits their interests--it's a cat, and they adore cats! 😸 (I also had an ulterior motive with that gift--my husband and I are at the age where we need to start thinking about doing something with all our stuff. So we figured we could start giving away a piece here and there as situations permit, for Christmas, weddings, birthdays, that sort of thing. They're gifts, they can't be refused like they could if we just said, hey, would you like this, as they're heading out the front door after a visit, right? 😆)

Edited June 18, 2023 by Loveday
punctuation

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

So glad to finally see wedding photos. I also think NR Anna and Sarah are pregnant from those photos. 
I just love Mary's dress, I'd have worn that in a heartbeat. When I got married 10 years ago 99% of the dresses were strapless. Only a year or so later it seemed to switch. I wore a strapless dress because their were only 2 very fussy lace dresses with sleeves that didn't suit my tropical destination wedding. 
I also love huge over the top weddings, small intimate weddings, destination weddings, budget weddings, honestly I love them all and don't criticise because it's not my day and I always have the best time and buy a new dress and give a generous gift because it's such a thrill to be invited.
At my brother's funeral (he was 30) his best friend said 'people only gather for your wedding and your funeral and how shitty is it that if you never get married the only day all your friends and family who love you gather is a day you'll not be there to enjoy it.'

I think about that a lot. So I make the effort, book the hotels and flights and celebrate and appreciate every wedding I have the privilege of being invited too.