Jeremiah and Hannah: Finally Declared

[nelliebelle1197]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:46 PM, Letgo said:

Could Jana have been there as Jeremiah's chaperone? Maybe her trips to the Wissmann home were for her brother, not because she was courting Stephen. Was there ever even a remote confirmation of their relationship? Photos of them alone, no Jeremiah present? Anything?

Exactly what I was thinking. This is the most likely scenario. 

[mstee]

46 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My sister and I aren’t BFFs but we get along well with each other and see each other fairly often. My mom always dreamed my sister and I would be BFFs because she’s not like that with her siblings. I personally thought it was ridiculous to have an expectation that your kids might be best friends as adults. I told my mom flat out that she should feel lucky that her daughters get along and are friends. Because many siblings aren’t like that (herself included). 

Yes, I definitely don’t want to push it on my girls at all. And I know just from looking at my husband and his sister and other people that I have seen that having the expectation that having siblings means instant friends is not always true. I just want to be able to foster healthy relationships. It’s good that you and your sister have been able to get along well and see each other. I just feel a little lost as a mom who had no siblings, but I know that my girls are super young and I have time to hopefully figure things out and do my best. 

[just_ordinary]

12 hours ago, mstee said:

Yes, I definitely don’t want to push it on my girls at all. And I know just from looking at my husband and his sister and other people that I have seen that having the expectation that having siblings means instant friends is not always true. I just want to be able to foster healthy relationships. It’s good that you and your sister have been able to get along well and see each other. I just feel a little lost as a mom who had no siblings, but I know that my girls are super young and I have time to hopefully figure things out and do my best. 

I think most sibling relationship are fine. Not bffs (never heard of that expectation before I read here) but amicable and loving. Doesn’t mean they phone each other every week or spent their holidays together. It can go horribly wrong or they are just distant because they are individuals that didn’t click. But the really dramatic cases seem to be pretty rare. Most siblings find a way to hold onto the relationship in some way even though they don’t agree on anything.

I think the worst thing parents can do is preferring one, not seeing the individuals and constant comparisons with the matching personality pattern narrative. One might be “the wild and loud one”, no reason to let them hear it all the time. In the end it’s up to your children. They will be adults and make their own decisions and those can also change again and again.

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I think most sibling relationship are fine. Not bffs (never heard of that expectation before I read here) but amicable and loving. Doesn’t mean they phone each other every week or spent their holidays together. It can go horribly wrong or they are just distant because they are individuals that didn’t click. But the really dramatic cases seem to be pretty rare. Most siblings find a way to hold onto the relationship in some way even though they don’t agree on anything.

I think the worst thing parents can do is preferring one, not seeing the individuals and constant comparisons with the matching personality pattern narrative. One might be “the wild and loud one”, no reason to let them hear it all the time. In the end it’s up to your children. They will be adults and make their own decisions and those can also change again and again.

I do think constant comparisons and competition breeds a lot of resentment between siblings. So that would be my only advice on fostering positive relationships amongst siblings. I look at how Jill pits her children against one another and think how she is setting them up for poor sibling relationships now and in adulthood. 

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I do think constant comparisons and competition breeds a lot of resentment between siblings. So that would be my only advice on fostering positive relationships amongst siblings. I look at how Jill pits her children against one another and think how she is setting them up for poor sibling relationships now and in adulthood. 

Do you mean Jill Dillard or JRod? I've never noticed Jill D doing that, but JRod for sure. 

[justoneoftwo]

It's important to let siblings develop their relationship. My sister and I are pretty close not best friends but we talk at least once a month. Not being competitive with each other is big as is the fact that it was just expected we would be friendly even if not best friends. My parents didn't push it or tell us we had to be friends it was just understood that we would be.

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

Do you mean Jill Dillard or JRod? I've never noticed Jill D doing that, but JRod for sure. 

Sorry I should have said JillRod. Too many Jills.

[SassyPants]

15 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Exactly what I was thinking. This is the most likely scenario. 

So do you think the numerous photos of J and S seated or standing together was all chaperoning ( Christmas, TX post wedding and even at the Duggars ‘ dining room table) ? Is Stephan also a chaperone?  

[meep]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:52 AM, Not that josh's mom said:

I really shouldn't wish I'd had a sibling for my son when I think about it. I had one sister 7 years older than I am and we weren't close until I became an adult. She was living when my dad died and there were many disagreements about things then. By the time my mother died, my sister had died and I did what I felt was best. My husband was an only child and he handled things when each of his parents died the way he felt was best. No arguments with anyone. 

Right now its just that my health is failing and I'm having to depend on my son more than I ever expected to. I hate needing help and he's really the only one who can help. No other family and a very small town with no services to assist. 

My (half)sibling and I are about 8 years apart and we have no relationship. It was my choice. She was abusive to me growing up, and my parents never believed me until I got older. I always got told "it's just sibling rivalry" or "all siblings fight with each other." Sorry but when a 16-year-old shoves their 8-year-old sibling down a flight of stairs or punches them so hard in the face they start to bleed, that's messed up and not normal. Even after my parents started believing me and witnessing things, it was "well you are more mature than her so you should forgive her." 😖 We've never had any relationship at all whatsoever. There was no bonding that happened so nothing is really "sad," it's only sad that we never had any relationship to begin with. I will say for the record, I think it did not help at all that my parents relied so much on my sibling to watch and babysit me while they worked. I think from day 1 my sibling resented my existence and never got over it (I literally saw a school assignment my sibling wrote right after I was born where she wrote that she hated me and wished our parents could send me back to the hospital LOL). I'm in my 30s now, she's almost 40, and I will die a very happy woman if I never see or talk to her again. I wish I was an only child. I love my nephews though, but of course I hardly ever get to see or talk to them.

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So do you think the numerous photos of J and S seated or standing together was all chaperoning ( Christmas, TX post wedding and even at the Duggars ‘ dining room table) ? Is Stephan also a chaperone?  

its seems odd to me that Stephen would be Hannah's chaperone instead of Elizabeth or Alaythia. 

[Iamtheway]

My MIL’s biomum hade five kids very close together young and when her husband died of a heart attack at 24 she couldn’t take care of them and had to give the youngest ones up for adoption. Birthcontrol is a blessing. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, meep said:

its seems odd to me that Stephen would be Hannah's chaperone instead of Elizabeth or Alaythia.

Hannah is really close with her unmarried sisters. So yes, it makes way more sense they would be chaperones. The last two times we saw Jer and Hannah together, Alaythia was the chaperone one time and Elizabeth was the chaperone the other time. Why is Jana suddenly not their chaperone if she was the chaperone all those other times she was spotted? 

[Smee]

My sister truly is my BFF… she’s literally moving in with me next week so we can be single mothers raising our kids in one household like a 90s sitcom or something. For the past couple of years leading up to this point, through our respective relationship breakdowns, it would be rare for us to go more than 3 or 4 days without texting one another. She gets me and she accepts me and we have enough in common to connect while enough differences to be our own people. I feel incredibly lucky to have her. But I know that what we have is rare and my daughters might grow up and drift apart (at the moment they’re close but they are 7 and 5) or fight a lot. In our teen years, my friends always found it weird that I liked my sister, while they bickered with theirs all the time. I put some of it down to us attending different high schools (& so having healthy space every day and separate identities not in each other’s shadow), but mostly I think it’s just personality. We have a brother that we both get along with, I tend to hear from him a bit more than she does, but neither of us are close to him. 

[arareyeah]

17 hours ago, meep said:

My (half)sibling and I are about 8 years apart and we have no relationship. It was my choice. She was abusive to me growing up, and my parents never believed me until I got older. I always got told "it's just sibling rivalry" or "all siblings fight with each other." Sorry but when a 16-year-old shoves their 8-year-old sibling down a flight of stairs or punches them so hard in the face they start to bleed, that's messed up and not normal. Even after my parents started believing me and witnessing things, it was "well you are more mature than her so you should forgive her." 😖 We've never had any relationship at all whatsoever. There was no bonding that happened so nothing is really "sad," it's only sad that we never had any relationship to begin with. I will say for the record, I think it did not help at all that my parents relied so much on my sibling to watch and babysit me while they worked. I think from day 1 my sibling resented my existence and never got over it (I literally saw a school assignment my sibling wrote right after I was born where she wrote that she hated me and wished our parents could send me back to the hospital LOL). I'm in my 30s now, she's almost 40, and I will die a very happy woman if I never see or talk to her again. I wish I was an only child. I love my nephews though, but of course I hardly ever get to see or talk to them.

 

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm lucky in half-siblings front. At least with some of them. I have 4 half siblings from my dad's first marriage, and 2 half siblings from my mom's first marriage. With the ones from my mom, we're really close despite 11 & 6 years age difference to the point that most people don't know that we didn't share a father because we grew up together. When my brother passed away due to COVID back in July, I was the one staying with him in the hospital (peak of Delta in my country, he didn't get a room and had to stay in the emergency room in the hospital for 3 days with a family member supervising oxygen tanks because the hospital ran out and we had to brought our own oxygen tanks). His wife refused so me and my younger brother immediately volunteered because he was, well, our brother and we love him so much.

Me and my sister text/call on daily basis and meet at least every 2 weeks. She trust the care of my nibblings to me whenever she and her husband went out of town.

With the other 4 from my dad....not so much. We live in different cities, and TBH we only in contact if there's something big is happening. Like when their mom got in a car accident, or when my sister from that side lost her baby. Like some sort of common courtesy I guess? Nothing hostile, but definitely no emotional connection. We try to be a good siblings by visiting them when those things happen but I don't see the same gesture from them. When I got married last week, only 2 of those siblings came despite me and my younger brothers always came during their weddings. I have much better relationship with my second cousins.

[JermajestyDuggar]

33 minutes ago, Smee said:

My sister truly is my BFF… she’s literally moving in with me next week so we can be single mothers raising our kids in one household like a 90s sitcom or something. For the past couple of years leading up to this point, through our respective relationship breakdowns, it would be rare for us to go more than 3 or 4 days without texting one another. She gets me and she accepts me and we have enough in common to connect while enough differences to be our own people. I feel incredibly lucky to have her. But I know that what we have is rare and my daughters might grow up and drift apart (at the moment they’re close but they are 7 and 5) or fight a lot. In our teen years, my friends always found it weird that I liked my sister, while they bickered with theirs all the time. I put some of it down to us attending different high schools (& so having healthy space every day and separate identities not in each other’s shadow), but mostly I think it’s just personality. We have a brother that we both get along with, I tend to hear from him a bit more than she does, but neither of us are close to him. 

Oh I hated attending high school with my sister! She is a very outgoing and more popular person and I’m quiet and was never popular. Through my whole life, teachers would marvel over how different we were. Which annoyed me to no end. Once she moved out after high school, we got along so much better. We need our space in order to get along. 

[Nothing if not critical]

38 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh I hated attending high school with my sister! She is a very outgoing and more popular person and I’m quiet and was never popular. Through my whole life, teachers would marvel over how different we were. Which annoyed me to no end. Once she moved out after high school, we got along so much better. We need our space in order to get along. 

 

1 hour ago, Smee said:

I put some of it down to us attending different high schools (& so having healthy space every day and separate identities not in each other’s shadow),

That actually confirms my reasoning re letting my girls attend different high schools, so thank you both. Since we live in the city, we had a choice of schools, and I figured my girls would be better off if they didn't spend all day at the same place. Plus, I didn't want kiddo no. 2 to constantly have to live up to her sister's example (for better or for worse). They each picked a school according to their preferences (one wanted a bilingual class, the other one just wanted it to be so close she could walk there), and so far, everyone's happy.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Nothing if not critical

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

 

That actually confirms my reasoning re letting my girls attend different high schools, so thank you both. Since we live in the city, we had a choice of schools, and I figured my girls would be better off if they didn't spend all day at the same place. Plus, I didn't want kiddo no. 2 to constantly have to live up to her sister's example (for better or for worse). They each picked a school according to their preferences (one wanted a bilingual class, the other one just wanted it to be so close she could walk there), and so far, everyone's happy.

Adding on that different high schools was also a fantastic idea for my younger brother and I. We were very different kids, he was athletic and popular and didn’t care about school while I was quiet and was very academic. Being in different places didn’t let the teachers compare us or even really let our parents compare us since we never had the same teachers or took similar classes. We were never really super close since I spent a lot of our childhood parenting him, but the space allowed us to develop in our own ways so that now as adults, we can be happy acquaintances who see each other a couple times a month. 

[SweetLaurel]

21 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

My MIL’s biomum hade five kids very close together young and when her husband died of a heart attack at 24 she couldn’t take care of them and had to give the youngest ones up for adoption. Birthcontrol is a blessing. 

What???  Do you mean the church didn't step up and support her and the kids for the rest of their lives?  Vapors!  No one tell Lori Alexander who thinks that is how it works and always has. Oh and she told me when I mentioned (before I was blocked) that my husband died and I had to work 2 jobs to support the kids, told me to trot myself to church and start dating from that huge pool of available single men who wanted a slew of ready made kids immediatly!  Until then the church would support me.  

Fundies are not only weird but stupid and wrong a lot.   There is the Jesus privilaged people worship and then there is the real world.    

[flycat]

9 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

 

That actually confirms my reasoning re letting my girls attend different high schools, so thank you both. Since we live in the city, we had a choice of schools, and I figured my girls would be better off if they didn't spend all day at the same place. Plus, I didn't want kiddo no. 2 to constantly have to live up to her sister's example (for better or for worse). They each picked a school according to their preferences (one wanted a bilingual class, the other one just wanted it to be so close she could walk there), and so far, everyone's happy.

I was just thinking the same thing about my sons potentially going to different middle schools. They are friends (most days) but I know the younger one has struggled a bit with being in the shadow of his outgoing brother.  Especially since they are one grade apart and have mostly had the same teachers.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, flycat said:

I was just thinking the same thing about my sons potentially going to different middle schools. They are friends (most days) but I know the younger one has struggled a bit with being in the shadow of his outgoing brother.  Especially since they are one grade apart and have mostly had the same teachers.

My children’s school purposely gives kids in the same family the same teachers. Of course it’s not always possible. But I expect my younger son to have most of the same teachers as my older son. He had the same kindergarten teacher and now has the same 1st grade teacher. 

[SeekingAdventure]

@JermajestyDuggar can you explain how thats possible? I find that to be quite hard to do. Let's say theres Kids A B C D. A has a younger sibling by one year, B by two years, C one year older, D two years older. Obviously, there's more than 4 kids, and a lot of kids have siblings, in a range of 1 to 3 years older/younger.

While writing, i just realised, maybe you have a different system, but growing up, when I started primary school, I had teacher X, and that teacher moved up grades with us, until we changed to secondary school, same system there, same system in high school. So unless your kids are more than 4 years apart, very hard to get the same teachers..

That was for the main class teacher only, I did have the same english teacher my brother had, but no other overlaps. we're a year apart

 

eta: our classes also contained around 20 students (small village) each, and didn't change until you switched into the next school. even then, most people stayed in the same classes

Edited November 23, 2021 by SeekingAdventure

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

@JermajestyDuggar can you explain how thats possible? I find that to be quite hard to do. Let's say theres Kids A B C D. A has a younger sibling by one year, B by two years, C one year older, D two years older. Obviously, there's more than 4 kids, and a lot of kids have siblings, in a range of 1 to 3 years older/younger.

While writing, i just realised, maybe you have a different system, but growing up, when I started primary school, I had teacher X, and that teacher moved up grades with us, until we changed to secondary school, same system there, same system in high school. So unless your kids are more than 4 years apart, very hard to get the same teachers..

That was for the main class teacher only, I did have the same english teacher my brother had, but no other overlaps. we're a year apart

Like I said, it’s not always possible. But they always try to do it. If it’s not possible to give the younger kids the same teacher, it’s not the end of the world. 

[SeekingAdventure]

yeah, I was thinking of it in my school systems perspective, which would make it nearly impossible in any case. but i remembered that my au pair kid got a new teacher each year, and also pupils switched between classes in the same grade, whereas the teachers mostly stayed on the same grade, so that would make it a lot easier..

And now i feel old, that kiddo is almost a grown up now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, SeekingAdventure said:

yeah, I was thinking of it in my school systems perspective, which would make it nearly impossible in any case. but i remembered that my au pair kid got a new teacher each year, and also pupils switched between classes in the same grade, whereas the teachers mostly stayed on the same grade, so that would make it a lot easier..

And now i feel old, that kiddo is almost a grown up now.

There are three classes per grade and the school is kindergarten through fifth grade. The teachers usually stick with the same classroom each year. Although there is an occasional switch if a teacher retires or takes a job at a new school. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, SeekingAdventure said:

@JermajestyDuggar can you explain how thats possible? I find that to be quite hard to do. Let's say theres Kids A B C D. A has a younger sibling by one year, B by two years, C one year older, D two years older. Obviously, there's more than 4 kids, and a lot of kids have siblings, in a range of 1 to 3 years older/younger.

While writing, i just realised, maybe you have a different system, but growing up, when I started primary school, I had teacher X, and that teacher moved up grades with us, until we changed to secondary school, same system there, same system in high school. So unless your kids are more than 4 years apart, very hard to get the same teachers..

That was for the main class teacher only, I did have the same english teacher my brother had, but no other overlaps. we're a year apart

 

eta: our classes also contained around 20 students (small village) each, and didn't change until you switched into the next school. even then, most people stayed in the same classes

Where are you located? I’ve never heard of a teacher staying with a class as they get older in the US, and I can’t imagine a school that small in modern times.

[Expectopatronus]

13 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

 

That actually confirms my reasoning re letting my girls attend different high schools, so thank you both. Since we live in the city, we had a choice of schools, and I figured my girls would be better off if they didn't spend all day at the same place. Plus, I didn't want kiddo no. 2 to constantly have to live up to her sister's example (for better or for worse). They each picked a school according to their preferences (one wanted a bilingual class, the other one just wanted it to be so close she could walk there), and so far, everyone's happy.

My sister and I went to different junior and senior high schools; she was in English and I was in French. It was one of the best decisions my parents made. It allowed us to be our own person. We didn’t get along well as kids (she was highly favoured) but as adults we are close. My parents apologized for how they treated me growing up and all four of us are super close.