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Jeremiah and Hannah: Finally Declared


Coconut Flan

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8 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I have a friend who had a singleton, and then triplets 15 months later (not planned). I asked her once how she had survived without going crazy and she answered "What makes you think I did?" 🤣

All the people I know who had situations where they had multiples and little kids at the same time, they all say it was just a blur. That they were so busy taking care of all the kids, they couldn’t stop and enjoy it. I have a feeling that many fundies with back to back to back pregnancies may also feel like this. Like they are just go go go and can’t stop to enjoy it. 

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My grandmother had 4 kids in less than 4 years, all singletons, all by the time she was 23. And they moved across the county twice in that time span, neither time living near any family, and my grandfather was working a demanding job. I have no idea how she survived those early years. 

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3 hours ago, Skyline said:

True day. Honestly twins are easier than two singletons very close together. A friend of mine had 3 in one year (twins and a singleton 11 months apart). THAT was hard!

My grand MIL had 6 in 5 years 🙀

One of my ex-husbands aunts had two sets of twins three years apart and a singleton about five years later.  It was the late 1940's through the early 1950's.  It was a hard time for her, dealing with poverty and a husband who wasn't very helpful in any way.  But she said that the singleton was the most difficult for her.  The twins would entertain each other, but the singleton didn't have that and expected her to do it.

I wonder if it would be different if the singleton came first and the twins came later.

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My sister has a set of twins. They're almost 6 now but she says she doesn't remember much of their first year at all. It's just a blur. 

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My grandmother had 4 kids in 5 years, took a 7 year break and then had another 4 in 5 years. But with the second 4, it was her older 3 daughters who were doing most of the work. 
 

i had 3 under 5 and it was intense for a few years. I definitely had my hands full. But I love it now that they are all a little older. However, 3 is my limit, I feel stretched thin trying to give them all one on one time and attention. 

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My sister had 5 kids in 10 years. All singles, roughly 2 years apart so not horrible. The youngest was just a year older than my son. After watching all of them, my son was an only child by choice. Now, seeing him having to cope with so many things alone, I almost wish he'd had a sibling to help with decisions. 

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3 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

I had three in 7 years and thought I was gonna lose my mind. 🤣 We were moving around for my husband’s work a lot so that made it a lot harder. 

 

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My old boss had 5 under 5 for a bit. He and his wife had three kids and said "What if we try for just one more?" 
Whammo. 

He fully admits that for the first years of the twins life (his wife also homeschooled) - he would get home for work and his wife would just hand him a child and disappear for a while. It got better over time but even he was like "I don't even know what end is up..." 

 

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15 hours ago, breakfree said:

While I agree even one child can be too many for some people to have, for better or worse, at least in the west, I think it is at this point effectively impossible to be what almost all people would call a 'good' parent to more than 5 or at most 6 kids. You would need to both be rich (and I do mean truly SOLIDLY upper class) and have a vast support network of family and close friends available to you.  Both these things are flatly out of reach for most people now, especially those not part of a religious community, and religious communities where people are having that many kids on the regular are uncommon now and what many of us might call cults. That's to say nothing of things that would unquestionably be better to have but maybe not absolutely necessary in all cases, like gaps of at least 18 months between pregnancies as recommended by the World Health Organization (this alone would prevent most people who get married at an average age from having 8 kids), enough hours in the day for both parents to spend at least some substantial  time alone with each child, flexible leave policies at work for if kids get sick, it could go on.

A few generations ago when society was set up somewhat differently and more people were religious but not in cults or orthodox, a family of 8 kids could have been workable and people could have managed to be decent parents to that many kids (though by current unforgiving parenting standards I don't think many people today would be calling these people good parents either).

I never argued that for the majority of people, being a good parent to 8 children is an achievable option. There are too many variables that will make it hard. Even if all the outer circumstances are in your favour, you might “fail”. I just said it’s possible, not that it’s a general possibility. 
My argument is, that those fundie parents fuck up all their children thoroughly. No matter if they have one or 12. Is it better if less children have to suffer from this- yes. But I would prefer non have to experience such an upbringing. So I’d rather see a change in the style of upbringing in general before they change up other stuff as well. It’s not a this or that thought experiment but prioritising several points that all desperately need changing.

And yes, I think under modern judgment most if not all parents from a few generations back wouldn’t exactly pass the “good parent” test. But I also think the number of children has less to do with it than a general shift of how we see children, development and parenting today. Our societies have in many ways fundamentally changed.

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7 hours ago, Flossie said:

 

I wonder if it would be different if the singleton came first and the twins came later.

I had my oldest, then 5 years later my twins. It was nice that my oldest was old enough to "help", in preschool part of the day, and able to entertain herself if need be. It was also nice in that when the twins napped I could focus solely on my oldest. So mornings were for the twins, afternoons for my oldest, and lots and lots of coffee for me!

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13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

All the people I know who had situations where they had multiples and little kids at the same time, they all say it was just a blur. That they were so busy taking care of all the kids, they couldn’t stop and enjoy it. I have a feeling that many fundies with back to back to back pregnancies may also feel like this. Like they are just go go go and can’t stop to enjoy it. 

There's a reason why Jessa talks about her parents reminding her that "The days are long, but the years are short" all the time.

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16 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

My sister had 5 kids in 10 years. All singles, roughly 2 years apart so not horrible. The youngest was just a year older than my son. After watching all of them, my son was an only child by choice. Now, seeing him having to cope with so many things alone, I almost wish he'd had a sibling to help with decisions. 

I get why you‘re feeling this way and for sure it‘s nice to have a sibling especially when your parents get older. At the same time a sibling relationship can be a source of stress and not everyone is close, in fact a relationship between siblings can be non existent.

 

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I had 2 under 2 and it was so hard, we decided that was enough. We had originally wanted 4 kids but in the moment, no way. And now, that my kids are school-age, I don't want to start over with diapers and sleepless nights and all that so two it is.

My husbands Grandmother had 5 in 5 years. And they are all roughly 12-14 months apart: 9/56; 12/57; 11/58; 11/59 and 10/60. And she told me that she had 3 miscarriages after her youngest. I don't know how she did it. 

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4 hours ago, Smash! said:

I get why you‘re feeling this way and for sure it‘s nice to have a sibling especially when your parents get older. At the same time a sibling relationship can be a source of stress and not everyone is close, in fact a relationship between siblings can be non existent.

 

Yep! I was always made to feel guilty about how difficult my relationship with my sister was growing up, and we never grew closer like people said we would. We talk a couple of times a year now, mostly about what we’re getting our parents for Christmas so we don’t get the same things, what my niece wants for her birthday, etc. We get along much better now, but only because we both pretty actively avoid each other, so there are no fights to be had. I found out she was pregnant when she announced it on Facebook; that’s how little we talk. I often say the best thing to come of my relationship with my sister is that I learned how to deal with difficult people and where my boundaries are for how someone is allowed to treat me. That’s really the nicest thing I can say about that. She’s not a bad person and I wish her well, but we just don’t get along and have nothing in common except a last name. 
 

I have spoken to several people over the years who are not close with their siblings and find the pressure to make that relationship work a pretty major stressor in their lives… I think we’ve all been conditioned to think that people who grow up together will learn to get along, and many of them do, but many of us don’t and just avoid talking about the person who was a source of emotional trauma for us, so you don’t hear as much about it. 
 

That being said, if I have kids I’d like them to have at least one sibling. So I get where that desire comes from and I don’t think it’s wrong to want that, since you can’t know how it will turn out and there’s nothing wrong with hoping for the best and doing your best to support a positive sibling relationship (my parents tried, but my sister and I are both very hard-headed and just didn’t like each other from very early on). 

Edited by Ms. Brightside
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9 hours ago, indianabones said:

There's a reason why Jessa talks about her parents reminding her that "The days are long, but the years are short" all the time.

It's trite but true even with one or two kids, but I can only think that spacing helps. Once they're old enough to entertain themselves or "help" it makes a huge difference in the mental load. A kid every 1-1.5 years never really lets you get to that point, because you maybe have older children that are more self-sufficient but you also have a toddler/baby/pregnancy combo so you never get a breather.

And even with spacing, there is such a thing as too many kids! Any given parent only has so much time and energy. We're having our third this winter and it's going to be our last for several reasons, but so much of it is just time and energy. Pregnancy, babies, and little kids are exhausting, and it's not like they don't still need you as they grow, either. Even before having kids, I figured four would be our absolute, total, tapped-out max because of that.

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I really shouldn't wish I'd had a sibling for my son when I think about it. I had one sister 7 years older than I am and we weren't close until I became an adult. She was living when my dad died and there were many disagreements about things then. By the time my mother died, my sister had died and I did what I felt was best. My husband was an only child and he handled things when each of his parents died the way he felt was best. No arguments with anyone. 

Right now its just that my health is failing and I'm having to depend on my son more than I ever expected to. I hate needing help and he's really the only one who can help. No other family and a very small town with no services to assist. 

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Haven’t seen my sibling in 11 years. Last time they were in a nearby town on business I found out through Facebook and asked if they had time for a quick coffee. They were too busy. Now I just text once a month and if I don’t initiate a text, I won’t hear from them for months until a holiday occurs. It’s sad but that is our relationship. 

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Yep! I was always made to feel guilty about how difficult my relationship with my sister was growing up, and we never grew closer like people said we would. We talk a couple of times a year now, mostly about what we’re getting our parents for Christmas so we don’t get the same things, what my niece wants for her birthday, etc. We get along much better now, but only because we both pretty actively avoid each other, so there are no fights to be had. I found out she was pregnant when she announced it on Facebook; that’s how little we talk. I often say the best thing to come of my relationship with my sister is that I learned how to deal with difficult people and where my boundaries are for how someone is allowed to treat me. That’s really the nicest thing I can say about that. She’s not a bad person and I wish her well, but we just don’t get along and have nothing in common except a last name. 
 
I have spoken to several people over the years who are not close with their siblings and find the pressure to make that relationship work a pretty major stressor in their lives… I think we’ve all been conditioned to think that people who grow up together will learn to get along, and many of them do, but many of us don’t and just avoid talking about the person who was a source of emotional trauma for us, so you don’t hear as much about it. 
 
That being said, if I have kids I’d like them to have at least one sibling. So I get where that desire comes from and I don’t think it’s wrong to want that, since you can’t know how it will turn out and there’s nothing wrong with hoping for the best and doing your best to support a positive sibling relationship (my parents tried, but my sister and I are both very hard-headed and just didn’t like each other from very early on). 

Thank you for your post! I myself have a strained relationship with my sister (only sibling). Im two years younger, got married 15 years ago, have three kids (14, 13, 11) and she is now just getting married (in a month) and newly pregnant.

The past 15 years i have been made to feel guilty for what i have (despite her making stupid mistakes in relationships, picking idiots to try and settle down with, etc.), it is a major stressor in my life. Having a husband and kids before her has caused such a strain in our relationship, im done feeling guilty for my happiness. Leading towards this wedding (to someone who has a not so amazing past, that we dont get along with) has been extremely stressful.

Reading your post has made me realise that i dont actually need the stress and drama that trying to hold the relationship together is bringing me. I dont necessarily need to be “friends” with her.

Thank you [emoji3590]
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2 hours ago, kiwi said:

Reading your post has made me realise that i dont actually need the stress and drama that trying to hold the relationship together is bringing me. I dont necessarily need to be “friends” with her.


Your situation sounds so similar to mine! There is definitely a common narrative that your sister is supposed to be your best friend, and I just will never have that with my sister. There is too much to overcome. I can wish her the best and a happy life while keeping my distance and living my own happy life. 
 

The guilt is still there sometimes, especially since I found out she was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and that explains so much of her behavioral and impulse control problems… but we’ve both hurt each other too much at this point to try and repair the relationship. I just don’t think I can ever fully trust her. And the blame isn’t all with her… having to change schools when she got kicked out for behavioral issues and my parents couldn’t take us multiple places was tough on me, getting woken up by the cops arresting her and seeing all of the stress she caused my parents for years was tough on me, etc. but I was actively angry with her a lot of the time because of that, so I wasn’t nice when she needed understanding and support. I’m older, so she was compared to me by teachers, coaches, our parents and grandparents… anyone who met me first. And again, with undiagnosed ADHD she wasn’t making great grades/struggled to sit still and follow instructions/etc so the ”be more like your sister” talks were frequent. She told me many times that it was impossible to live up to the standards I set, but on the flip side I felt I had no room to make any errors because all the emotional resources in our home were already stretched thin to deal with her needs, and the way I got attention was when I brought home straight As or won competitions in the activities I was involved in. Our parents are wonderful and did their best, and we both have a great relationship with them now… we just took out all of our frustrations that stemmed from the other person on each other. With time and distance we are now civil and both recognize the bad behaviors we were responsible for, and I think that’s the best it’s going to get. And I’ve reached a point where I’m totally ok with that, which is freeing. I hope you can reach that point, too!

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I audited a government agency.  The head of the agency's DIL had twins, triplets, triplets within 5 years (1960's).  Catholic so NFP evidently wasn't the solution.  She had "gall bladder surgery" and didn't get pregnant again.

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Reading about all the distant siblings makes me sad. (Even though most of you seem at peace with it). My girls are super young but I do hope that they can be close when they are older. I know that it’s never a given so I just hope that I can help foster a healthy relationship between the two of them. I have no experience having siblings because I was raised as an only child being adopted and I have half siblings I know as an adult but obviously that’s different. And my husband and his sister are just polar opposites in personality and they don’t really have any relationship either. So I don’t feel like I know how to parent siblings very well. 

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11 minutes ago, mstee said:

Reading about all the distant siblings makes me sad. (Even though most of you seem at peace with it). My girls are super young but I do hope that they can be close when they are older. I know that it’s never a given so I just hope that I can help foster a healthy relationship between the two of them. I have no experience having siblings because I was raised as an only child being adopted and I have half siblings I know as an adult but obviously that’s different. And my husband and his sister are just polar opposites in personality and they don’t really have any relationship either. So I don’t feel like I know how to parent siblings very well. 

My sister and I aren’t BFFs but we get along well with each other and see each other fairly often. My mom always dreamed my sister and I would be BFFs because she’s not like that with her siblings. I personally thought it was ridiculous to have an expectation that your kids might be best friends as adults. I told my mom flat out that she should feel lucky that her daughters get along and are friends. Because many siblings aren’t like that (herself included). 

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