Josie & Kelton 7: So Boring that No One Discussed Her Baby Shower

[CanadianMamam]

51 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

I'm not a fan of Kelton - he reminds me of someone in my personal life. However, I will say he's d*mn*d if he does and d*mn*d if he doesn't in terms of Josie and future children. If he says he doesn't want more he seems unsupportive of her. If he says he wants more, it is seen as him putting her life in danger. If he says he doesn't want more and she does get pregnant by chance, then there are videos of him saying he doesn't want another child. 

Josie's been raised to believe her worth is tied to her fertility and ability to raise children. Part of her PPD issues could stem from that inkling in her mind that this could and probably should be their last child. It would be hard for most women, but especially in this cult, to have the realization that this could be it. No more children. But beyond that...no more special attention or appreciation from her own parents who only seem to show up for weddings and births. I'm sure there is a voice that says she should have savored this pregnancy more. But I hope there is also a voice that reminds her of how sick Hazel was at birth and how apparently there was a lot of worry the whole pregnancy. It is one thing to put yourself at risk (that sucks as it is), but to put your child through suffering is a rough decision. 

He could be vague about it though, the way Alissa is for example or just make a comment that they don’t know what the future will hold instead of actively talking about how they will see after the next one, as if a third is a done deal when Hazel is still so young nad the pregnancy and birth were so difficult. To me that is where he comes across poorly. 

[rebeccawriter01]

14 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

He could be vague about it though, the way Alissa is for example or just make a comment that they don’t know what the future will hold instead of actively talking about how they will see after the next one, as if a third is a done deal when Hazel is still so young nad the pregnancy and birth were so difficult. To me that is where he comes across poorly. 

I agree that he comes off as a jerk about it. I was just searching my brain to see if there was anything he could have said that would have made me see him differently. Truth is there isn't. Even keeping quiet or vague, people are going to write their own narrative about him or any of them. 

Being the reputation and image management person that I am, I would have told him to say something like..."We are enjoying this time with our daughter who thankfully is healthy and thriving thanks to God and the staff at ________________. It is true that Josie's doctors have raised concerns about her well-being and any future children. We have not come to any solid conclusions at this time and will be enjoying being a family of four." 

Edited August 9, 2021 by rebeccawriter01

[Bluebirdbluebell]

23 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

I'm not a fan of Kelton - he reminds me of someone in my personal life. However, I will say he's d*mn*d if he does and d*mn*d if he doesn't in terms of Josie and future children. If he says he doesn't want more he seems unsupportive of her. If he says he wants more, it is seen as him putting her life in danger. If he says he doesn't want more and she does get pregnant by chance, then there are videos of him saying he doesn't want another child. 

Josie's been raised to believe her worth is tied to her fertility and ability to raise children. Part of her PPD issues could stem from that inkling in her mind that this could and probably should be their last child. It would be hard for most women, but especially in this cult, to have the realization that this could be it. No more children. But beyond that...no more special attention or appreciation from her own parents who only seem to show up for weddings and births. I'm sure there is a voice that says she should have savored this pregnancy more. But I hope there is also a voice that reminds her of how sick Hazel was at birth and how apparently there was a lot of worry the whole pregnancy. It is one thing to put yourself at risk (that sucks as it is), but to put your child through suffering is a rough decision. 

As I've shared, I had a hysterectomy some years ago. While at the time I wasn't planning on children or wanting children at that time, I hated that loss of control over that area of my life. People had questions and wanted to know if I was regretting not having children or had hoped to have kids someday. There wasn't a right answer to that. 

I hope that Kelton is supportive of Josie. I hope that together they make the decisions that need to be made. 

Well John Webster always says "It's up to Alyssa to decide how many kids they have." Most people seem to like that he says that. It comes off a little too passive to me, but it's a popular response.

[bal maiden]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well John Webster always says "It's up to Alyssa to decide how many kids they have." Most people seem to like that he says that. It comes off a little too passive to me, but it's a popular response.

Isn't that what JimBob used to say about Michelle, too? I think it's a bullshit answer, when they're in a religious movement which is centred upon producing as many children as possible. Is it really a free choice for the woman?

[GuineaPigCourtship]

It's like a terrible game of chicken.

[rebeccawriter01]

16 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well John Webster always says "It's up to Alyssa to decide how many kids they have." Most people seem to like that he says that. It comes off a little too passive to me, but it's a popular response.

 

10 hours ago, bal maiden said:

Isn't that what JimBob used to say about Michelle, too? I think it's a bullshit answer, when they're in a religious movement which is centred upon producing as many children as possible. Is it really a free choice for the woman?

I find it to be BS when they say this. It takes two to tango. Pushing off the culpability or responsibility to one person in the couple seems disingenuous. In most "normal" relationships, children are something that the couple discusses and agrees upon as a couple. Despite this generation of the Bates with pants wearing females, attempts at small business (working outside the home), college education (such as it is), etc., they tend to stick to those gender specific roles in the marital spectrum. Very few references to the marriages being partnerships where there is compromise or agreement after discussion. Instead it is all about what one wants over the other one. 

While it sucks that they or anyone is judged on such things...it is the life they have chosen. Even beyond the show itself, many of these couples share everything. It isn't the worst thing in the world (as I tell clients) to admit you aren't sure what X means for you right now. You haven't had time to process the news and will be taking it into consideration in the future. However, for now we are enjoying Y. 

Based on the comments about wanting a boy, it is possible he is echoing what she has said in private to be supportive. Maybe he's a jerk. My thought is that they are another young couple who didn't think through the whole we'll promote ourselves and business on social media. Who knew I'd miss the days when he was doing play by play videos of unclogging a drain?

[fluffernutter]

I had hoped Kelton would be different due to his mother's passing. He seemed more concerned the first time around. 

[0 kids n not countin]

Josie needs to come up with some new adjectives to describe the stuff she's shilling on her Instagram account, all she ever seems to say when she describes the stuff she's shilling is "it's so good"...🙄

[rebeccawriter01]

10 hours ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Josie needs to come up with some new adjectives to describe the stuff she's shilling on her Instagram account, all she ever seems to say when she describes the stuff she's shilling is "it's so good"...🙄

Whatever homeschooling program Kelly Jo used with them did not include an extensive vocabulary lesson. Back in the early days of the show all they ever said was blessing and party. If two or more people had a conversation over a sandwich...it was a party. If more than one person was playing an instrument, it was a party. Someone could turn it into a drinking game and have a real party. 

Alyssa always asks the girls (Carlin does this too) if they are excited. Erin's phrase is making memories. 

[JillyO]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well John Webster always says "It's up to Alyssa to decide how many kids they have." Most people seem to like that he says that. It comes off a little too passive to me, but it's a popular response.

I think that just goes to show that this movement sees children as the woman’s responsibility. Apart from earning the money to feed one more person (which only some of them do, although the Bates husbands are doing better at this than most others), a new baby really doesn’t affect the father much. 

Who gets up at night with the baby? Mom. Who bathes the baby? Mom. Who feeds the baby? Mom. Who dresses the baby? Mom. And then later… who homeschools the child? Mom. Who takes the child to any activities they may be allowed? Mom. Who disciplines? Mom. It’s all mom, mom, mom. (Until sister moms come into play, at least!)

I honestly think it barely affects these men whether they have two or seven kids (apart from financial issues and maybe - at some point - space). So it’s easy for them to say “I leave the decision up to my wife”. We all know these women aren’t really making free decisions. But if anything happens or the woman dares to ask for help one time, her husband can always say “you were the one who wanted another baby!”

[SassyPants]

On 8/21/2021 at 9:50 AM, JillyO said:

I think that just goes to show that this movement sees children as the woman’s responsibility. Apart from earning the money to feed one more person (which only some of them do, although the Bates husbands are doing better at this than most others), a new baby really doesn’t affect the father much. 

Who gets up at night with the baby? Mom. Who bathes the baby? Mom. Who feeds the baby? Mom. Who dresses the baby? Mom. And then later… who homeschools the child? Mom. Who takes the child to any activities they may be allowed? Mom. Who disciplines? Mom. It’s all mom, mom, mom. (Until sister moms come into play, at least!)

I honestly think it barely affects these men whether they have two or seven kids (apart from financial issues and maybe - at some point - space). So it’s easy for them to say “I leave the decision up to my wife”. We all know these women aren’t really making free decisions. But if anything happens or the woman dares to ask for help one time, her husband can always say “you were the one who wanted another baby!”

For most people who work hard for a lifetime, to support their families, having another child to support is a HUGE a deal. It’s at minimum an 18 year financial debt to be paid. 
I know that it’s different for people who live in the world of grifting, but for everyone else I think a financial responsibility pretty much matches all the other responsibilities that are involved with raising a child.

[Mama Mia]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:02 PM, rebeccawriter01 said:

Given what we saw and have been told about how these girls grew up in the days before any television shows, it is no wonder they have an unhealthy or problematic issue with food. Zach, Lawson, and others have stated there were no seconds and sometimes not enough for each family member to get a full share of the food. 

My mother came from a large family (not 19) and has had this issue all her life. Her father wasn't always working and so there were days when there wasn't enough to eat. There were days when she was going to school that she took two pieces of bread with nothing between them so people didn't feel sorry for her. As an adult she doesn't waste any food. If she cooks it, someone better eat it. She will fill her plate at a restaurant - even if she just said she wasn't hungry. 

While we talk about how the girls seem to struggle learning to cook for just their small families or even cook at all, I think the way they grew up affected the way they see quantity as a luxury over quality. The same with Alyssa and fast food or Carlin and Starbucks. I remember one episode of the 19KAC where Gil told the children they didn't have to drink water and could have soda with their food that night because (not said) TLC was paying for the meal. No doubt they are enjoying those perks now. 

I’m not sure they have a “problematic relationship with food” some women, especially young women, are just naturally very thin. Most of the Bates daughters also seem very small boned/petite which can really make the slimness more noticeable.  It can be distressing to thin women to have people assume they are bulimic or anorexic or even just overly obsessed with appearance just because of their weight. 
 

 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I’m not sure they have a “problematic relationship with food” some women, especially young women, are just naturally very thin. Most of the Bates daughters also seem very small boned/petite which can really make the slimness more noticeable.  It can be distressing to thin women to have people assume they are bulimic or anorexic or even just overly obsessed with appearance just because of their weight. 
 

 

I'm not accusing anyone of having a disorder. However, I do characterize meals that are primarily fast food as problematic. Erin and Zach probably come closest to cooking healthy and that is come and go. 

My point is not about weight but quality of what they eat. While growing up they had low quality and low cost foods. Kelly Jo has mentioned more than once she grew up on frozen meals and never really learned to cook. Michaela and Alyssa were doing the cooking and making ends meet with knock off brand canned items and bulk that consisted of processed, sugar, salt, and loads of carbs. The grown children now have more money and access to other things. They seem to equate expensive and convenient with quality. It is a symptom of having grown up in such a large but poor family. As I pointed out, my mother has battled that during her life as have her siblings. In their 20s they viewed that McDonald's bag as a status symbol that they weren't poor any longer. They made sure you saw the packaged meal containers so you saw the name brands. 

My aunt (mom's sister) was told not too long ago that she was diabetic and should eat healthier. She proceeded to proudly tell the doctor on her next visit that she now drank 1% milk instead of whole milk so she was healthy now. My mother explained to me that when growing up only the baby got milk. Their parents couldn't afford it for all the kids. So to her and her siblings, having milk in the refrigerator as adults was a big deal. It meant they had made it. 

I see that same mindset with many of the grown Bates. Zach was proud to take Whitney to the same restaurant that he and his siblings fought over the doggy bag from. Alyssa and Carlin proudly show off their fast food purchases and Josie shows off her overly processed recipes or latest gourmet coffee blends. Katie even gifted Alyssa a McDonald's coffee. Her I Love You Day gift from a sibling was a Domino's pizza and some ramen noodles. It seems to me that they are equating fast food with a status symbol. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by rebeccawriter01

[raayx01]

Alyssa always has something from McDonald's and the snacks she let's kids eat are very processed and just junk. But I'm just jealous that she can eat all of that and still stay as skinny as she is. I eat a few chips and gain 5 pounds. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I’m not sure they have a “problematic relationship with food” some women, especially young women, are just naturally very thin. Most of the Bates daughters also seem very small boned/petite which can really make the slimness more noticeable.  It can be distressing to thin women to have people assume they are bulimic or anorexic or even just overly obsessed with appearance just because of their weight. 
 

 

That’s true and during my teenage years, my P.E. teacher was convinced I was anorexic. Some other teachers who had known me longer and knew me well tried to convince her otherwise, but to no avail. She even. Alles child services (who talked to me and concluded that all was fine). Still, what this teacher did was so unpleasant. I was very thin, that’s true, but I ate with an appetite and just didn’t put on weight, no matter how much pizza I stuffed my face with. Over the years, though I remain quite thin, I’ve put on a few pounds. Still, I’m on the very thin side without having to try. At all. 

This can be a blessing and I’m thankful I don’t have to count calories (I’d absolutely hate to do that cause I enjoy eating quite a bit, especially eating out, going to restaurants and cafés), but the fact that my weight was made such an issue in high school despite me being perfectly healthy caused me quite a bit of stress. Young women shouldn’t be shamed for being overweight, but they shouldn’t be shamed/harassed for being a little underweight (but healthy and eating) either. 

[SorenaJ]

If all that the Bates girls are eating is fast food, they are not healthy. 

[Exchange Atheist]

"They’re unhealthy because all they eat is fast food" is still a far cry from "They’re anorexic or bulimic". It’s absolutely possible to be naturally thin even if most or all of what you eat is fast food. That’s how it was for my sister and me.
Personal rant in spoiler, feel free to ignore. 

Spoiler

At 17, I was called to the principal‘s office via daily speaker announcement because the guidance counsellor felt the need to point-blank ask me if I was anorexic. His reasoning was that I was skinny and had good grades. I was never not skinny, had always had good grades and had at that point been a student at that school for eight years. 

At 14, I was told to track every bite I ate in a journal for three months. This was apparently necessary because I needed a letter from my paediatrician stating that I wasn’t anorexic, otherwise I wouldn’t have been allowed to live in the US as an exchange student. This one was at least reasonable, but I still fail to understand how tracking food would have helped someone who actually was anorexic.

Random strangers repeatedly came up to me and asked if I had an eating disorder, and quite a few straight out called me a skeleton or yelled at me to eat a cheeseburger. Every super special assembly or student speech about eating disorders, teachers and students pointedly stared at me. Going out with new friends, I had the choice between ordering something somewhat healthy and hearing "oh why aren’t you eating more? You’re so skinny! Should we be worried?" or ordering what I wanted to eat, hearing "Where do you put all that food???" and being watched with eagle eyes if I went to the bathroom after the meal. I was so fucking self-conscious that I didn’t dare to go to the bathroom during or shortly after meals, I didn’t dare to eat anything healthy or snack-sized, and ultimately didn’t want to eat in front of other people at all. Oh, and of course I hid my body as much as I could because I was so ashamed of how ill I apparently looked.
I mean, I have Nurie Rodrigues' body type, so I can understand peoples‘ concern. But I ate enough, my weight never fluctuated, and my eating habits were picky, but otherwise fine before the near-pathological self-consciousness set in. It took most of my twenties to get that down to manageable levels. 

So yeah. Cavalier assumptions of eating disorders are kind of triggering to me. 

 

[Ali]

14 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

That’s true and during my teenage years, my P.E. teacher was convinced I was anorexic. Some other teachers who had known me longer and knew me well tried to convince her otherwise, but to no avail. She even. Alles child services (who talked to me and concluded that all was fine). Still, what this teacher did was so unpleasant. I was very thin, that’s true, but I ate with an appetite and just didn’t put on weight, no matter how much pizza I stuffed my face with. Over the years, though I remain quite thin, I’ve put on a few pounds. Still, I’m on the very thin side without having to try. At all. 

This can be a blessing and I’m thankful I don’t have to count calories (I’d absolutely hate to do that cause I enjoy eating quite a bit, especially eating out, going to restaurants and cafés), but the fact that my weight was made such an issue in high school despite me being perfectly healthy caused me quite a bit of stress. Young women shouldn’t be shamed for being overweight, but they shouldn’t be shamed/harassed for being a little underweight (but healthy and eating) either. 

I gained almost no weight during my first pregnancy. I was eating properly and had a fairly healthy diet. I could not gain weight.

One of the nurses at the doctor's office frequently made comments about me eating too little. I was eating throughout the day to prevent nausea. I stopped eating when I was full. 

I ate crackers right before bedtime and breakfast first thing every morning to minimize my nausea. One morning I almost fainted while preparing breakfast. She immediately stated to accuse me of not eating enough. When I told her I was preparing breakfast for myself, she immediately told me toast with peanut butter is not breakfast. I had never had that for breakfast in my life. I did not even know what to make of the comment. Luckily my doctor figured out it was probably low blood pressure.

People should not assume skinny people have an eating disorder based on looks alone.

[AussieKrissy]

Memorial rememberence of your miscarriage no drama. Releasing rubbish into the air to come back down and possibly kill wildlife yeah nah. Fuck I hate ballon releases. Don’t throw rubbish on the ground don’t let it go into the sky people. Piss me off people just don’t think. 

[SorenaJ]

31 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Memorial rememberence of your miscarriage no drama. Releasing rubbish into the air to come back down and possibly kill wildlife yeah nah. Fuck I hate ballon releases. Don’t throw rubbish on the ground don’t let it go into the sky people. Piss me off people just don’t think. 

Probably should have planted a tree. 

[Karma]

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Releasing rubbish into the air to come back down and possibly kill wildlife yeah nah

I’m so with you on this. I wish balloon releases would be banned. I walk along the beach most weeks, and often pick rubbish up. So often it’s the balloon strings, wrapped around seaweed.  Do these people not realise that a balloon eventually comes back down to earth?

[AussieKrissy]

13 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Probably should have planted a tree. 

What a fantastic idea. that's lovely 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Probably should have planted a tree. 

See I like the idea of planting something in remembrance of someone lost because you can watch it grow and change and you’ll be reminded of the person you lost. Who lives on in your memories. When you release balloons they are gone. And become litter. You won’t see the balloons again but someone who likely doesn’t even know you will pick up the litter and throw it in the trash. That’s not special to me. 

[AussieKrissy]

11 hours ago, Karma said:

I’m so with you on this. I wish balloon releases would be banned. I walk along the beach most weeks, and often pick rubbish up. So often it’s the balloon strings, wrapped around seaweed.  Do these people not realise that a balloon eventually comes back down to earth?

I think I read somewhere that Australia or at least a state has banned them. I think if there was just a bit of a campaign about how bad it is and maybe in that campaign mention options such as the above plant a tree. Balloon releases would not happen as much. I do think it is ignorance rather than maliciousness that causes it. I would hope that with any possible banning their would be the info on why and the options instead of given to appease the arsewipe fuck the state kind of people who would want to do it because they are being told they can't, so they can see its for a good solid reason.  But as the civid plague has proven people are morons.

[Karma]

Oh you’re right @AussieKrissy.  I didn’t know this!  Mind you I don’t think the people who’ve released the balloons with ribbons which I pick up off my local beach know it either

https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/questions/release-helium-balloons