Katie & Travis 2: Here Comes Yet Another Bates Young Bride

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

Also, it’s pretty obvious that they have pretty strict, no hand-holding during engagement standards, but that doesn’t mean they’re as strict when it comes to clothes. 

 

 

 

 

I know. One thing doesn't follow another. Mostly, though, I think it's highly unusual--even in their crazy circle--to have the groom's parents have any say over bridesmaid dresses. I've never heard of that happening, ever, in a fundie family.

[JanasTattooParlor]

14 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I know. One thing doesn't follow another. Mostly, though, I think it's highly unusual--even in their crazy circle--to have the groom's parents have any say over bridesmaid dresses. I've never heard of that happening, ever, in a fundie family.

My thought wasn’t so much that the in-laws would have a say over the dresses, it was more that I was surprised that Katie let Carlin at least pick such a form fitting dress when her in-laws seem to keep to very modest clothing. We haven’t seen the female Clark sibling or the boys’ fiancés wear jeans, and the girls keep their clothes loose fitting. But Katie may not have the same ideas about modesty that her in-laws have and didn’t care what the bridesmaids wore as long as it fit the color and fabric she wanted. Do we know what their wedding colors are? I definitely think black dresses can be gorgeous, but I’m really curious what colors they’re pairing that with. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by JanasTattooParlor

[Jackie3]

41 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

We haven’t seen the female Clark sibling or the boys’ fiancés wear jeans, and the girls keep their clothes loose fitting. But Katie may not have the same ideas about modesty that her in-laws have and didn’t care what the bridesmaids wore as long as it fit the color and fabric she wanted.

When I got married, it never occurred to me to wonder what my inlaws thought of the dresses. The inlaws were old and irrelevant, in my young eyes. I might have wondered what my own mother thought (albeit briefly!) and of course my friends.

Katie is what, 20? I suspect she is going about her business in a fever of excitement, thinking only of herself and her fiance. That would be typical of many brides, particularly such a young, silly and immature one.

If she worried about anyone's opinions, it would be her sisters' opinions (I'm sure there's some competition there) and Travis'.

[freethemall]

26 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

When I got married, it never occurred to me to wonder what my inlaws thought of the dresses. The inlaws were old and irrelevant, in my young eyes. I might have wondered what my own mother thought (albeit briefly!) and of course my friends.

Katie is what, 20? I suspect she is going about her business in a fever of excitement, thinking only of herself and her fiance. That would be typical of many brides, particularly such a young, silly and immature one.

If she worried about anyone's opinions, it would be her sisters' opinions (I'm sure there's some competition there) and Travis'.

I dont know what your situation was, but for Katie, these are basically going to be her new parents, assuming she's moving to NJ, and so her new support system in a place where she wont know many other people. So the stakes might be high to keep them happy and a good relationship. It reminds me of Alyssa in Florida, though with relaxed clothing standards but still has to keep up appearances, especially with her FIL being in Congress.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can’t help but assume the Clark family will be a heavy influence on Travis and Katie’s marriage. Which is not good in my opinion. 

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, freethemall said:

It reminds me of Alyssa in Florida, though with relaxed clothing standards but still has to keep up appearances, especially with her FIL being in Congress.

Other than homeschooling, how is Alyssa catering to her inlaws? If anything, it seems like she imposes on them a lot. They helped her with the move, they watched the kids when she was sick, they babysit so she and John can go on dates. . .  

You could say the older Websters were her "new parents", as you are saying with the Clarks. Yet Alyssa doesn't seem to be taking orders from them. She homeschools, yes, but she and John seem quite happy with homeschooling. ("Homeschooling" gave Alyssa time to put on her makeup AND post on IG every day.)

I don't think you can predict the younger generation's behavior based on the older folks' beliefs. A great example is how Alyssa has dramatically veered away from her own parents' dress code.  Even if Gil and Kelly moved to Florida, I have a feeling the Webster girls would continue dressing in normal bathing suits, shorts and t-shirts.

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I can’t help but assume the Clark family will be a heavy influence on Travis and Katie’s marriage. Which is not good in my opinion. 

Do we know anything about the Clark parents? Are they heavy-handed and domineering? Or are they the type to let their adult kids make their own decisions. I really know nothing about them.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Jackie3

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Do we know anything about the Clark parents? Are they heavy-handed and domineering? Or are they the type to let their adult kids make their own decisions. I really know nothing about them.

We really don’t know much about them. However the fact that all three of their kids had the exact same type of engagement, the exact same type of no touch courtships, and are all marrying in 2021 tells me their parents probably had a major role in it. 

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

We really don’t know much about them. However the fact that all three of their kids had the exact same type of engagement, the exact same type of no touch courtships, and are all marrying in 2021 tells me their parents probably had a major role in it. 

You think the parents insisted that all their kids get married in 2021, and the kids  and future spouses all agreed? I wonder why the parents wanted them all married this year. It seems highly inconvenient to have three weddings in one year. Do domineering parents generally insist their kids all marry in the same year? If so, why?

The no-touch courtship thing doesn't impress me, though. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. Just look at the married Bates kids.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Jackie3

[raayx01]

38 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

You think the parents insisted that all their kids get married in 2021, and the kids  and future spouses all agreed? I wonder why the parents wanted them all married this year. It seems highly inconvenient to have three weddings in one year. Do domineering parents generally insist their kids all marry in the same year? If so, why?

The no-touch courtship thing doesn't impress me, though. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. Just look at the married Bates kids.

Well they really only had to plan and pay for one. They only have one daughter

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

You think the parents insisted that all their kids get married in 2021, and the kids  and future spouses all agreed? I wonder why the parents wanted them all married this year. It seems highly inconvenient to have three weddings in one year. Do domineering parents generally insist their kids all marry in the same year? If so, why?

The no-touch courtship thing doesn't impress me, though. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. Just look at the married Bates kids.

The Bontragers pushed their kids hard to get married and they ended up with three weddings in a 24 hour period. So yes, I think their parents had a role in it. 

[CanadianMamam]

22 hours ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

My thought wasn’t so much that the in-laws would have a say over the dresses, it was more that I was surprised that Katie let Carlin at least pick such a form fitting dress when her in-laws seem to keep to very modest clothing. We haven’t seen the female Clark sibling or the boys’ fiancés wear jeans, and the girls keep their clothes loose fitting. But Katie may not have the same ideas about modesty that her in-laws have and didn’t care what the bridesmaids wore as long as it fit the color and fabric she wanted. Do we know what their wedding colors are? I definitely think black dresses can be gorgeous, but I’m really curious what colors they’re pairing that with. 

The colors are black and red, I believe. So I am guessing black dresses and red flowers.

[Jackie3]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The Bontragers pushed their kids hard to get married and they ended up with three weddings in a 24 hour period. So yes, I think their parents had a role in it. 

Well, that I could see. That IS efficient. But three wedding in different parts of the year requires out of town relatives and friends to do a lot of traveling.

I just can't figure out why they'd suddenly want three young adults to get married asap, and how they'd get all the families/young adults to agree. And why, in the first place?

[JermajestyDuggar]

55 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Well, that I could see. That IS efficient. But three wedding in different parts of the year requires out of town relatives and friends to do a lot of traveling.

I just can't figure out why they'd suddenly want three young adults to get married asap, and how they'd get all the families/young adults to agree. And why, in the first place?

Fundies want their kids to marry young. We have talked about why on FJ. When they are young, they are easier to control. When they are young, they have hormones and want to have sex. So marrying young means they might be less likely to have sex before marriage. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[HereticHick]

3 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

The colors are black and red, I believe. So I am guessing black dresses and red flowers.

I'm hoping for the other way round. : )

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

The colors are black and red, I believe. So I am guessing black dresses and red flowers.

That would certainly work with it being so close to Christmas. I was going to say that would be perfect since churches decorate with poinsettias for Christmas, but I just remembered they’re getting married at the place Carlin got married at.  I’ve been to two outdoor weddings in December; one that was the beginning of the month and about 50 degrees outside and the other being two days from Christmas and being 70 degrees outside. For her sake, I hope it isn’t freezing. That’d make for a miserable ceremony. 

[Jackie3]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Fundies want their kids to marry young. We have talked about why on FJ. When they are young, they are easier to control. When they are young, they have hormones and want to have sex. So marrying young means they might be less likely to have sex before marriage. 

I just don't see how 3 kids marrying in one year = domineering parents.

FJ follows lots of domineering parents and none have done this. The Duggar parents are domineering and have married off lots of their kids.  Their weddings are spaced out in a reasonable manner. The Maxwells are domineering and I don't believe that they married 3 in one year. Lori Anderson is quite domineering and her kids married over a period of several years.

(I'm aware, though, that fundies generally want their kids married off young)

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jackie3

[mango_fandango]

Zach and Whitney did black and red for their wedding in December. IIRC the bridesmaids wore black dresses with red sashes and the maid of honour wore a red dress with a black sash. 

[Melissa1977]

42 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Zach and Whitney did black and red for their wedding in December. IIRC the bridesmaids wore black dresses with red sashes and the maid of honour wore a red dress with a black sash. 

December wedding? Sorry? In their Orwellian turn, that wedding dissapeared and has never been posted/talked about again. So, in their minds, Katie will be the "first" one to have a black and white December wedding. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I just don't see how 3 kids marrying in one year = domineering parents.

FJ follows lots of domineering parents and none have done this. The Duggar parents are domineering and have married off lots of their kids.  Their weddings are spaced out in a reasonable manner. The Maxwells are domineering and I don't believe that they married 3 in one year. Lori Anderson is quite domineering and her kids married over a period of several years.

(I'm aware, though, that fundies generally want their kids married off young)

 

It’s not just that. It’s the fact that all three had the exact same type of no touch courtship rules and the same types of proposals. It’s all of it put together along with them being fundie. And fundies love controlling their kids. You can believe whatever you want. I’m not here to convince you.

[Jackie3]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s not just that. It’s the fact that all three had the exact same type of no touch courtship rules and the same types of proposals. It’s all of it put together along with them being fundie. And fundies love controlling their kids. You can believe whatever you want. I’m not here to convince you.

Sounds like you are saying domineering parents like their kids married all in one year. Thank you for explaining.

What are their courtship rules, exactly? I haven't seen them touching in pictures. Did they talk about the rules they follow?

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Jackie3

[freethemall]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:29 PM, Jackie3 said:

Other than homeschooling, how is Alyssa catering to her inlaws? If anything, it seems like she imposes on them a lot. They helped her with the move, they watched the kids when she was sick, they babysit so she and John can go on dates. . .  

You could say the older Websters were her "new parents", as you are saying with the Clarks. Yet Alyssa doesn't seem to be taking orders from them. She homeschools, yes, but she and John seem quite happy with homeschooling. ("Homeschooling" gave Alyssa time to put on her makeup AND post on IG every day.)

I don't think you can predict the younger generation's behavior based on the older folks' beliefs. A great example is how Alyssa has dramatically veered away from her own parents' dress code.  Even if Gil and Kelly moved to Florida, I have a feeling the Webster girls would continue dressing in normal bathing suits, shorts and t-shirts.

Do we know anything about the Clark parents? Are they heavy-handed and domineering? Or are they the type to let their adult kids make their own decisions. I really know nothing about them.

First, I didnt say anything about catering to the Websters, I said keeping up appearances and and that she has taken them on as second parents since she moved to their state.

Second, in the Alyssa threads we've always discussed how her aesthetic is more in line with the appearance the Congressman Webster would prefer giving of his family: religious enough to have lots of kids and homeschool and mom stays home, but still palpable enough to the mainstream in fashionable pants. Weekly church photos, but nothing too crazy on her social media. Most of it yes is Alyssa herself projecting the image she wants, but she is still under the authority of her husband and his family.

If elder Webster didnt want Alyssa in pants and would hand that down to John, Alyssa would do her what her husband says. Similarly, we've seen some of the Bates wives cater to the Bates form of dress when newly married, I.e Whitney very much hid her pants and tried to show herself as skirt only in the first year of marriage though she finally gave up on it.

[CanadianMamam]

I think you can assume the Clarks are stricter than the Bates simply from the courtship. Katie and Travis stood out on the 4th of July. There no-touch courtship was at odds with the very touchy relationships Esther and Nate and Lawson and Tiffany are enjoying. And you could say it is a sons vs. daughters thing except Carlin, Tori and Josie were all cuddly with their future husbands. Katie's relationship stands out and these rules are obviously coming from somewhere and if it isn't the Bates, it is obviously the Clarks. 

 

 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, freethemall said:

If elder Webster didnt want Alyssa in pants and would hand that down to John, Alyssa would do her what her husband says.

Then John is a lot more compliant than most young adults I know. Most young adults are very insistent on making their own rules and living their own life. And John is over 30, I believe. He's not even a "young adult." He's an adult.

Is there evidence that John blindly obeys his father? True, his father employs him--that's a big deal. But John has some very valuable skills (HVAC in Florida). I'm sure the company needs him, and he can certainly find employment elsewhere. So he has leverage. 

John seems to love his family, and he doesn't seem like a cowed doormat. I'm not so sure he'd take kindly to his dad giving orders about what John's family should do. He might say, "Dad, thanks, but it's really not your business what Alyssa wears." 

Obviously a politician wants good optics. But Dan won by a very large margin in the last election. I'm not so sure it matters that much what John and Alyssa do. Outside of FJ, no one really knows them anyway. And the people who want Trump/no vaccines/no abortion are going to vote for Dan because he thinks the same way on those issues. They aren't going to suddenly vote for a pro-abortion candidate because Alyssa Webster stopped going to church.

[llucie]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

 

Is there evidence that John blindly obeys his father? True, his father employs him--that's a big deal. But John has some very valuable skills (HVAC in Florida). I'm sure the company needs him, and he can certainly find employment elsewhere. So he has leverage. 

 

Is John a registered HVAC technician? i had read years ago here that he didnt have any credentials unlike his brother, so he really is dependant on his family company. He surely has the skills but i dont know how the registering works, i supose is an exam? Maybe he got it since though, its been a while.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:34 AM, Jackie3 said:

When I got married, it never occurred to me to wonder what my inlaws thought of the dresses. The inlaws were old and irrelevant, in my young eyes. I might have wondered what my own mother thought (albeit briefly!) and of course my friends.

Katie is what, 20? I suspect she is going about her business in a fever of excitement, thinking only of herself and her fiance. That would be typical of many brides, particularly such a young, silly and immature one.

If she worried about anyone's opinions, it would be her sisters' opinions (I'm sure there's some competition there) and Travis'.

These are super conservative people. I have been around this type enough to know that yeah there is likely some thought into what Travis’ parents like and what Kelly and Gil will want in terms of modesty.