Joy & Austin 30: Who Needs Fire Safety when You Have Jesus?

[Not that josh's mom]

I'm not convinced the election will lead to a civil war, but it will be tough on our household. We have agreed to disagree, our votes cancel one another, but we do both vote.

[nausicaa]

36 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I would never have a gun in my house, but I was raised with them in the home and it was drilled into me that you never pull a gun with the intent to use it as a deterrent, only if you are fully prepared to use it.  

Hesitation can easily lead to it being taken from you and used against you.  That was gun safety 101 in our house just after "always assume every gun has a round in the chamber."

I agree from the shooter's perspective, but I find it odd when non-gun owners assume any use of a gun must end with a dead person. Using a gun for me can also mean shooting into the air. I agree that you should never point a gun at anything you aren't prepared to destroy. (And considering I've never used my gun in a force on force interaction, who knows how much I might fuck it up.)

People can also keep an unloaded gun if they are really uncomfortable. And I totally support anyone who isn't comfortable with a gun not owning one. I don't think they're for everyone, or even most people.

 

[PumaLover]

14 hours ago, viii said:

Unless she has a VBAC I don’t think that’s a possibility for her. 

I have often wondered this about her and also Jill D. If the doctors told Joy it was absolutely not safe for her to get pregnant anymore, do you think they would actively prevent? Doesn't that go against their beliefs? I know there's that whole martyr thing, where they think it's noble to die in childbirth or whatever, but do you think Austin would put his foot down for the safety of his wife? I wonder how that would go over with JB and Michelle. Would that mean they're just not trusting Jesus enough?

As far as guns, I was very, very afraid of them til we moved up here. I shot a handgun once and got really scared and didn't want to do it again. We now live on 6 acres up in the mountains and like my grandma likes to say, it's kind of the Wild West. You can't always count on the sheriff to get to you in time if you're in trouble and we've had a couple crazy things happen around here. I now own a .22 rifle that I'm comfortable shooting, and my husband bought me a .38 special revolver after a mountain lion took my 50+ lb. dog last summer.

And with all the kids we always have around, all guns and ammo stay safely locked in the gun safe, and none of them know where the key is.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

21 minutes ago, PumaLover said:

I have often wondered this about her and also Jill D. If the doctors told Joy it was absolutely not safe for her to get pregnant anymore, do you think they would actively prevent? Doesn't that go against their beliefs? I know there's that whole martyr thing, where they think it's noble to die in childbirth or whatever, but do you think Austin would put his foot down for the safety of his wife? I wonder how that would go over with JB and Michelle. Would that mean they're just not trusting Jesus enough?

As far as guns, I was very, very afraid of them til we moved up here. I shot a handgun once and got really scared and didn't want to do it again. We now live on 6 acres up in the mountains and like my grandma likes to say, it's kind of the Wild West. You can't always count on the sheriff to get to you in time if you're in trouble and we've had a couple crazy things happen around here. I now own a .22 rifle that I'm comfortable shooting, and my husband bought me a .38 special revolver after a mountain lion took my 50+ lb. dog last summer.

And with all the kids we always have around, all guns and ammo stay safely locked in the gun safe, and none of them know where the key is.

I am so sorry for the loss of your dog.

 

[Bobology]

@PumaLover, I'm so sorry about your dog. That is tragic and really scary.

About shooting guns in the air... those bullets still have a trajectory, and that trajectory always includes coming back down. Due to  gravity they can damage, maim, and kill. Those of you old enough may remember the lawn darts tragedies that lead to them being removed from the market in the US, maybe mid to late 60s. People were throwing them over houses! After reports of the accidents began surfacing it didn't hurt us one bit to throw them away. My dad first dismembered them so they couldn't be used again. 

Typing that feels weird... a 'few' brain damages and deaths from some lawn darts and they all disappear. Hmm.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Bobology said:

@PumaLover, I'm so sorry about your dog. That is tragic and really scary.

About shooting guns in the air... those bullets still have a trajectory, and that trajectory always includes coming back down. Due to  gravity they can damage, maim, and kill. Those of you old enough may remember the lawn darts tragedies that lead to them being removed from the market in the US, maybe mid to late 60s. People were throwing them over houses! After reports of the accidents began surfacing it didn't hurt us one bit to throw them away. My dad first dismembered them so they couldn't be used again. 

Typing that feels weird... a 'few' brain damages and deaths from some lawn darts and they all disappear. Hmm.

I remember finding an old box of lawn darts in the garage when I was a kid...long forgotten from an earlier time and I wasn't allowed to touch them.

Considering I had more than once accidentally smacked myself in the face trying to throw the remote it was a good call to keep away from actual toy weaponry.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, PumaLover said:

I have often wondered this about her and also Jill D. If the doctors told Joy it was absolutely not safe for her to get pregnant anymore, do you think they would actively prevent? Doesn't that go against their beliefs? I know there's that whole martyr thing, where they think it's noble to die in childbirth or whatever, but do you think Austin would put his foot down for the safety of his wife? I wonder how that would go over with JB and Michelle. Would that mean they're just not trusting Jesus enough?

As far as guns, I was very, very afraid of them til we moved up here. I shot a handgun once and got really scared and didn't want to do it again. We now live on 6 acres up in the mountains and like my grandma likes to say, it's kind of the Wild West. You can't always count on the sheriff to get to you in time if you're in trouble and we've had a couple crazy things happen around here. I now own a .22 rifle that I'm comfortable shooting, and my husband bought me a .38 special revolver after a mountain lion took my 50+ lb. dog last summer.

And with all the kids we always have around, all guns and ammo stay safely locked in the gun safe, and none of them know where the key is.

I'm sorry to hear about your dog, but I would totally have at least a .22 on hand if I lived up in the mountains or in the tundra of Alaska or anywhere large animals are more populous than people. 

As for your scenario of "if dr's told Joy she had to stop" all the fundies I knew always found some way to say "God said they were done" either a doctor telling  them they had to be done for mom's health, or too many kids or too broke what have you.  Most fundies & QF follow the "having as many kids as God gives them", very few of them actively try to have as many kids as their bodies allow, like Michelle & Kelly did.  Those are two very different life choices. 

In the Duggar clan I can see Austin, Derrick, Jeremy, John David, Josiah & MAYBE Joe* saying no more. Ben could say "we're done", but Jessa is in charge of that family & she'll be done when she's done. I also don't see Anna stopping either & Josh most likely will have very little say because Anna has so much to hold over his head. 

 

*I'm saying maybe on Joe simply because of how fast they are producing babies & Joe's guilting encouraging Joy and possibly Josiah into staying in the family cult. 

[neuroticcat]

16 hours ago, viii said:

Unless she has a VBAC I don’t think that’s a possibility for her. 

You would hope. But Michelle has several c sections early on...

[princessmahina]

Re: double digit kids. At their current rates, I predict josh/Anna, Jessa/Ben, and Joe/Kendra to reach 10+. I think the others (who have kids so far) will stay single digit. Jessa is a bit of a wild card because I think she’s down for a ton of kids, but I think Ben isn’t and also, her dangerous births could put an end to the baby train. 

[mpheels]

 

1 hour ago, Bobology said:

@PumaLover, I'm so sorry about your dog. That is tragic and really scary.

About shooting guns in the air... those bullets still have a trajectory, and that trajectory always includes coming back down. Due to  gravity they can damage, maim, and kill. Those of you old enough may remember the lawn darts tragedies that lead to them being removed from the market in the US, maybe mid to late 60s. People were throwing them over houses! After reports of the accidents began surfacing it didn't hurt us one bit to throw them away. My dad first dismembered them so they couldn't be used again. 

Typing that feels weird... a 'few' brain damages and deaths from some lawn darts and they all disappear. Hmm.

 Thank you. Seriously, don’t fire guns in the air. That bullet has to land somewhere and you have no idea who it might hit. The concept of safe gun ownership and “I’ll just fire it in the air” are not compatible. If you have a gun for self defense, you have to assume you might kill someone. You might not, but as soon as you have a loaded gun in your hand, shooting and killing a person becomes a highly likely end point. There is no shoot to disable/wound. There is no warning shot. Every time you fire a gun you could potentially kill someone. If you are not comfortable with the idea of killing someone, even in self defense, do not get a gun. (I am also a single woman who has lived alone for almost 15 years, including 4 years living in downtown Baltimore. I have never felt the need to own a gun for self defense, partly because I don’t think I could actually pull the trigger if needed.)

[EmmieJ]

The only weapons I've ever owned are a cast iron pan, an iron, and a bat.  If I moved to an isolated area in the country, I might get a gun or rifle, but would take classes in gun safety and learn how to properly shoot them.  However, that's a moot point, as I don't ever plan to move to such an area.  I'm currently sharing a home, but have lived alone or as a lone woman with minor child for years.  

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

You would hope. But Michelle has several c sections early on...

Michelle had 1 c section with the  first twins, and then again with several of the younger kids (Jackson, JGM and Josie, IIRC). I think the key difference is Michelle had a vaginal delivery before requiring any c section. In the medical world, we call that a “proven” cervix. If you’ve already had a vaginal delivery, it makes a VBAC much more favorable.

[nausicaa]

36 minutes ago, mpheels said:

 Thank you. Seriously, don’t fire guns in the air. That bullet has to land somewhere and you have no idea who it might hit. The concept of safe gun ownership and “I’ll just fire it in the air” are not compatible. If you have a gun for self defense, you have to assume you might kill someone. You might not, but as soon as you have a loaded gun in your hand, shooting and killing a person becomes a highly likely end point. There is no shoot to disable/wound. There is no warning shot. Every time you fire a gun you could potentially kill someone. If you are not comfortable with the idea of killing someone, even in self defense, do not get a gun. (I am also a single woman who has lived alone for almost 15 years, including 4 years living in downtown Baltimore. I have never felt the need to own a gun for self defense, partly because I don’t think I could actually pull the trigger if needed.)

I promise not to derail this thread and won't post again on this because apparently I'm expressing myself terribly, but I didn't mean to come off as if firing a gun in the air is something to do for fun. (I actually lived in a country where celebratory gunfire at weddings and sports game wins was a fairly regular cause of accidental death.) 

I meant that in a serious force on force situation, it is an option rather than firing directly at the person and is statistically less likely to hurt or kill anyone. It's highly unlikely to be at a velocity to puncture skin on the descent if fired in a vertical trajectory and from a handgun. 

I do agree that you have to acknowledge if you own a gun and plan to use it for self defense that it could be used to kill someone. 

[Maggie Mae]

12 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I meant that in a serious force on force situation, it is an option rather than firing directly at the person and is statistically less likely to hurt or kill anyone. It's highly unlikely to be at a velocity to puncture skin on the descent if fired in a vertical trajectory and from a handgun. 

A toddler was shot in my city a few years ago, while in her crib by someone on the street by someone shooting randomly. But mostly I agree with you. As you probably know. 

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm sorry to hear about your dog, but I would totally have at least a .22 on hand if I lived up in the mountains or in the tundra of Alaska or anywhere large animals are more populous than people. 

You'd be better off with bear spray, TBH. It's much more effective, and you'd have to be a really good shot under enormous pressure to safe your life from a bear with a 22, and it's way easier to just hide from a moose. 

And FYI you don't have to be "in the tundra of Alaska" to see a bear/moose/eagle/orca/magpie/lynx/porcupine/name your animal.

[VBOY9977]

Well, no baby yet based on Joy’s insta. 
Since she had mentioned induction I kinda thought it would happen a few days ago or today but I guess not. 

[dolcez]

4 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Well, no baby yet based on Joy’s insta. 
Since she had mentioned induction I kinda thought it would happen a few days ago or today but I guess not. 

I believe she said doctors would consider induction if she went past her due date.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, princessmahina said:

Re: double digit kids. At their current rates, I predict josh/Anna, Jessa/Ben, and Joe/Kendra to reach 10+. I think the others (who have kids so far) will stay single digit. Jessa is a bit of a wild card because I think she’s down for a ton of kids, but I think Ben isn’t and also, her dangerous births could put an end to the baby train. 

I don’t think Anna will get over 10. She’s 32 and has a baby every two years. That’s going to slow down. Possibly if her pattern holds until her early forties, she might make it to 12, but I doubt it. 

[AussieKrissy]

8 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

I think it’s also important to remember that Christina Caldwell was in a car accident when pregnant with Kendra. I just went back and read a recap of the ep where they mentioned it and it said that it caused some damage to her body and to have early contractions with every pregnancy. I think that was a big factor in the Caldwell’s family size, and they still managed to have 8. I think if they hadn’t had any complications they could’ve easily had 15+

she can still have more...

[artdecades]

3 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Re: double digit kids. At their current rates, I predict josh/Anna, Jessa/Ben, and Joe/Kendra to reach 10+. I think the others (who have kids so far) will stay single digit. Jessa is a bit of a wild card because I think she’s down for a ton of kids, but I think Ben isn’t and also, her dangerous births could put an end to the baby train. 

I really don't think Ben and Jessa will do anything to prevent other than abstaining. In fact, I think the only currently married Duggar who will limit is Jill. It's possible that Jinger and Jeremy will stop after like 4-6 kids, but I think right now they are def quiverfull. Just because someone isn't getting pregnant at the rate that JoKen are doesn't mean they are limiting their family size.

[princessmahina]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I don’t think Anna will get over 10. She’s 32 and has a baby every two years. That’s going to slow down. Possibly if her pattern holds until her early forties, she might make it to 12, but I doubt it. 

I think Anna will probably make it to 10 but if she went over, it would surprise me. 

 

24 minutes ago, artdecades said:

I really don't think Ben and Jessa will do anything to prevent other than abstaining. In fact, I think the only currently married Duggar who will limit is Jill. It's possible that Jinger and Jeremy will stop after like 4-6 kids, but I think right now they are def quiverfull. Just because someone isn't getting pregnant at the rate that JoKen are doesn't mean they are limiting their family size.

I can’t see Jeremy with a mega family. It would cut into his dining out, pretentious ugly clothes, and pricy haircuts. 

[JordynDarby5]

I'm so sorry about your dog @PumaLover.

[Idlewild]

My own theory- the ones that rely on the show (and therefore JB) to fund or supplement their lifestyle will continue having children because there is very little else they can offer as a storyline and it’s what JB wants so he’ll keep writing the cheques.

[Sabine]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

My own theory- the ones that rely on the show (and therefore JB) to fund or supplement their lifestyle will continue having children because there is very little else they can offer as a storyline and it’s what JB wants so he’ll keep writing the cheques.

Well having babies is the story line? Or am i missing something here? the boys don't have any other job to do then to keep their wifes pregnant and lactating. Hence why the focus of the show is on the girls rather then the boys, cause the boys have no value really other then fathering children and to be honest that is not much of a story line unless you go not save for work n families and then the show would be on Pron Hub rather then TLC. 

[EmiSue]

I hope for Joy's sake that Baby Forsyth comes over the weekend if she hasn't already. And that Joy and Baby are both okay this time. 

[Bobology]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:46 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I would never have a gun in my house, but I was raised with them in the home and it was drilled into me that you never pull a gun with the intent to use it as a deterrent, only if you are fully prepared to use it.

I have taken a concealed carry course and an additional gun safety course (two different instructors, two different businesses) and the strongest point made throughout each course was to never pull out a gun unless you were prepared to use it at that moment to prevent yourself from being killed.