Joy & Austin 30: Who Needs Fire Safety when You Have Jesus?

[neurogirl]

A few years ago, my then-boyfriend and our roommate went out drinking. I drove them home and in the apartment they started drunkenly waving this old-timey gun around. I literally ran hyperventilating into a back room before they could tell me it was a replica prop gun - the barrel was completely filled in so it can't possibly fire anything. I had such instant terror. They felt really bad. There will be no guns in our house. 

[neuroticcat]

No guns here either. It’s still astonishing to me that people casually have them around the house with the idea of self-defense...as in they are actually prepared to take someone else’s life in a moment of confusion and adrenaline. 
I guess if someone must have them they should at least go to the shooting range frequently and learn how to use them calmly.

 

 

[Italiangirl]

No guns even here, except for the water one and only at the sea house. My father one's buyer an air gun, just for fun and because he always wanted one, but after a couple of months it has ended up in the attic forget in her gun case cause none of us feel comfortable to have it around, we have pets and I and my sister are both adults and yet we prefer to keep it far far away from everyday life 

[princessmahina]

We inherited a lot of funds from my grandfather and have kept them for sentimental reasons. I’ve shot Dr Pepper cans, but I don’t think I could ever shoot a person. They’re all locked away and unloaded. I prefer a baseball bat as a self defense item. 

[AprilQuilt]

It's funny, until watching that video I didn't realise how off I feel about little kids playing with guns. It was quite normal in my 90s UK childhood, where to be fair guns were pretty much academic - you could role play cowboy or James Bond or something but it was unlikely that real guns would be anywhere near us. It's only now seeing Gideon choose a gun that I find it very weird. He's so little and it's not like (digging deep here) it's a rifle that might be useful for hunting. A toddler with a handgun is a very weird sight and it's very odd that we have socialised little boys to find them as exciting as Gideon found the trains and binoculars.

But besides that, I think Joy and Gideon's date (I don't feel too squick about its usage here, as 'special time to connect, just you and me' seems fair enough) was adorable, and it is obvious how much Joy and Austin love and enjoy their son. And they are doing a good job - he's so sunny and engaged, and was genuinely thrilled by the little treats, like he doesn't get them every day but they aren't so alien to him that he is uncomfortable about accepting them?

I hope the Forsyths are always keen and able to take their children out for ice cream and fun times. Nothing will make Annabell's death less than a tragedy, but this extra time with an only child might have helped them stop to smell the roses a bit, and maybe see that children are to be enjoyed rather than hoarded in bulk as God points. I think all the Duggar daughters expected to churn out babies like Michelle did, and all have found that pregnancy is more complicated and more dangerous for them than it was for her - being as she was a bit of a reproductive anomaly. I don't really expect the Forsyths to actively limit their family size, but I hope that perhaps they will level out to a more typical 6-10 kids, and be OK with that. They have horrible views but right now they are pretty good parents, and it would be nice for that to continue.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, princessmahina said:

We inherited a lot of funds from my grandfather and have kept them for sentimental reasons. I’ve shot Dr Pepper cans, but I don’t think I could ever shoot a person. They’re all locked away and unloaded. I prefer a baseball bat as a self defense item. 

Sadly DH & I are considering getting hand gun & a shot gun and soon, if trump loses (and he should) people will be flipping their shit, including a couple neighbors of ours who are real scary trumpers. I'm also hoping not to be living in my current home in November, it will just depend on how long it takes to sell our house. 

[WiseGirl]

My grandfather had guns and a pretty (to me) gun cabinet. It was always locked and when he passed all of them including the cabinet went to my cousin's husband who is a hunter. He's the only one in the immediate family with knowledge of guns so it was the right thing to do. They rest of us don't even have water guns maybe there us a Nerf gun somewhere. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm not against water guns or nerf guns as toys in theory, but since my husband kept shooting me in the ass they have also been banned.  He knows exactly what he did.

[purple_summer]

10 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Sadly DH & I are considering getting hand gun & a shot gun and soon, if trump loses (and he should) people will be flipping their shit, including a couple neighbors of ours who are real scary trumpers. I'm also hoping not to be living in my current home in November, it will just depend on how long it takes to sell our house. 

My fear as well. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'm not against water guns or nerf guns as toys in theory, but since my husband kept shooting me in the ass they have also been banned.  He knows exactly what he did.

I miss our Nerf gun wars. The kids & I used to gang up on their father or we'd gang up on a kid or they'd gang up on me. We'd shoot them over the cats heads or at their tails and they's chase the little darts. Our deaf kittty Moo just looks at you all indignantly because she's not amused by our games when we try to get her to play with us. 

[neurogirl]

I do suspect Joy is quiverfull, and that's specifically because (all aboard the speculation bus) she mentioned in her house tour planning on moving in 5 years. I was wondering why that specific timeline, especially if its a beautiful house near her family. The home currently has 3 bedrooms. If she has a child every 2 years or so, they would have 4 kids and might want to move into bigger space. 

Hopefully that's me reading WAY to into things. I agree that she and Gideon seemed very happy and comfortable with each other. 

[viii]

52 minutes ago, neurogirl said:

I do suspect Joy is quiverfull, and that's specifically because (all aboard the speculation bus) she mentioned in her house tour planning on moving in 5 years. I was wondering why that specific timeline, especially if its a beautiful house near her family. The home currently has 3 bedrooms. If she has a child every 2 years or so, they would have 4 kids and might want to move into bigger space. 

Hopefully that's me reading WAY to into things. I agree that she and Gideon seemed very happy and comfortable with each other. 

Unless she has a VBAC I don’t think that’s a possibility for her. 

[kiwi]

I do suspect Joy is quiverfull, and that's specifically because (all aboard the speculation bus) she mentioned in her house tour planning on moving in 5 years. I was wondering why that specific timeline, especially if its a beautiful house near her family. The home currently has 3 bedrooms. If she has a child every 2 years or so, they would have 4 kids and might want to move into bigger space. 
Hopefully that's me reading WAY to into things. I agree that she and Gideon seemed very happy and comfortable with each other. 

They don’t have a good track history of staying put in one place for very long. How many fixer-uppers/trailers/etc have they lived in since they have been married? 4-6?

So I suspect you are possibly reading too much into it.

I think five years is ambitious for them! I suspect they will both be bored and onto a new project in 18 months or so.

[just_ordinary]

14 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

It's funny, until watching that video I didn't realise how off I feel about little kids playing with guns. It was quite normal in my 90s UK childhood, where to be fair guns were pretty much academic - you could role play cowboy or James Bond or something but it was unlikely that real guns would be anywhere near us. It's only now seeing Gideon choose a gun that I find it very weird. He's so little and it's not like (digging deep here) it's a rifle that might be useful for hunting. A toddler with a handgun is a very weird sight and it's very odd that we have socialised little boys to find them as exciting as Gideon found the trains and binoculars.

But besides that, I think Joy and Gideon's date (I don't feel too squick about its usage here, as 'special time to connect, just you and me' seems fair enough) was adorable, and it is obvious how much Joy and Austin love and enjoy their son. And they are doing a good job - he's so sunny and engaged, and was genuinely thrilled by the little treats, like he doesn't get them every day but they aren't so alien to him that he is uncomfortable about accepting them?

I hope the Forsyths are always keen and able to take their children out for ice cream and fun times. Nothing will make Annabell's death less than a tragedy, but this extra time with an only child might have helped them stop to smell the roses a bit, and maybe see that children are to be enjoyed rather than hoarded in bulk as God points. I think all the Duggar daughters expected to churn out babies like Michelle did, and all have found that pregnancy is more complicated and more dangerous for them than it was for her - being as she was a bit of a reproductive anomaly. I don't really expect the Forsyths to actively limit their family size, but I hope that perhaps they will level out to a more typical 6-10 kids, and be OK with that. They have horrible views but right now they are pretty good parents, and it would be nice for that to continue.

I agree. We played with toy guns all the time. And if it wasn’t a toy gun we used a stick or whatever to replace it. It was never weird. But in my country it’s pretty uncommon to be confronted with guns in the household. More so in the countryside but they are often stashed out of sight. There is only a very minimal percentage that think guns on display are somewhat cool and they often have questionable ideas anyway. (Excluding castles/Manor houses and so on that displaying vintage guns.)

Even with our police and military personnel it’s not a given that they bring their guns home. 
If the household isn’t full off neo-nazi/batshit crazy right wing idiots I would never think about my children being confronted with a gun. And in the other case I would make damn sure we stay away from them as far as possible. 

But perception definitely changed regarding the toy guns. I think it’s a mix of a transformation to a more non-violent society in general (not hitting children, women's rights in marriage and children's rights, being mostly against war - many believe in only defending on our own soil) and the reporting on the USA (mass) shootings and shootings in schools. At one point there seemed to be one per day. Now, we secretly applaud ourselves that we are so much better in that regard and it reinforces the sentiment that normal private people shouldn’t have guns and wouldn’t want them anyway.
.………

see Quote below. I messed up the comment box

I don’t understand. Why do you consider getting them if you don’t want it - at least that is how I interpret your usage of sadly ? And what does that have to do with how your election goes? Do you think armed people will storm your house? Start mass shootings in the street? Which, to me, sounds you are expecting a civil war? What the hell is going on, on your side of the pond?

13 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Sadly DH & I are considering getting hand gun & a shot gun and soon, if trump loses (and he should) people will be flipping their shit, including a couple neighbors of ours who are real scary trumpers. I'm also hoping not to be living in my current home in November, it will just depend on how long it takes to sell our house. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by just_ordinary

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

36 minutes ago, kiwi said:

They don’t have a good track history of staying put in one place for very long. How many fixer-uppers/trailers/etc have they lived in since they have been married? 4-6?

So I suspect you are possibly reading too much into it.

I think five years is ambitious for them! I suspect they will both be bored and onto a new project in 18 months or so.

To be fair when they were/are flipping houses for a living, and I'm assuming they were saving money by living in the RV on the property they were working on and they moved into 1 house for a few months just before she had Gideon. I think they lived with his folks for a while after they sold the 1st house, I'm wonder if they got a new/different RV between.  

I agree the OP is over thinking, I'm not so sure the Forsyth's are QF, I could sear I heard Joy or maybe it was Austin say they were going to have 4 kids at one time. Austin only has 1 full sibling and 2 1/2 siblings, I can see them stopping with 4, like the Dillard's Derrick only has 1 sibling and they could be done, I don't see JinJer having more than 3 kids, unless they have 3 girls then I can see them trying once more for a boy. Ben is 1 of 8 or 9 isn't he, so I can see them having 6 to 8 kids. I don't see any of the married girls having double digit kids simply because their husbands didn't grow up like that & I don't think these men see the reason behind that many kids. They are conservative Fundy Christian, but they weren't raised QF, not even Austin, the headships were raised in homes where you lived within your means, no debt, following old testament patriarchal God but you didn't have more kids than you can afford. They all have the same hateful shitty "values" just not the QF thing. 

[Bobology]

I'm not convinced that the number of kids in a family indicate whether or not the parents are/were QF. Some couples are very fertile and some not very fertile. Brandon and Michael (Bates) Keilen are likely QF yet have no children due to fertility issues that have been shared to some degree with the public. It is likely that there are some families with 1, 2 or 3 kids who are QF in their approach, but due to differences in couples' abilities to reproduce their families remain small. Their culture probably views it as those couples aren't blessed with !!11!! blessings (can't remember how you guys type that, but "eleventy" is hilarious) bc they wouldn't be able to 'handle them' or else they are being 'punished' or something ridiculous like that.

6 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't see any of the married girls having double digit kids simply because their husbands didn't grow up like that & I don't think these men see the reason behind that many kids.

This makes sense. 

[SassyPants]

I’ve always said that none of them will have double digit numbers because: 1. The Duggars DID grow up in a puppy mill, and 2. Their spouses did NOT grow up in a puppy mill. Wait until one of them gets to #7 or 8, and into their 30s. It’s not going to be so cute and precious any more. Just ask Michelle. Do you think she’s going to be anyone’s laundry fairy? If the Caldwells share religious beliefs with the Duggars, how come they don’t have 15 kids? 
 

My fundie friend who wanted to have a “circus” (her exact word) to entertain, had 3 in the first 3 years of marriage, promptly waited until those kids were in school to have #4, and last one. At that point she told me, “4 kids is a lot.” She was also 40, so a bit different.

[SorenaJ]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

 If the Caldwells share religious beliefs with the Duggars, how come they don’t have 15 kids? 

Because there is a difference between actively trying to have as many kids as possible, and "leaving it up to God". "Leaving it up to God" (as people did back in the olden days), without particularly trying, but just having sweet fellowship whenever they feel like it generally results in a spacing of ~2 years and 8-10 kids. Which is what lots of fundies have. The Duggars and Bateses purposefully tried to have as many kids as possible, and hence end up with 20 kids. So if JoKen is deliberately trying to have as many kids as possible, they could end up with 20, but if they are just not preventing, and seeing how it goes, they will probably end up with 8-10 kids. 

The Caldwells have 8 kids, which is a very normal fundie size. The Kellers have 8, the Swansons 9, the Burnetts 8, the Seewalds 7, the Paines 10, the Websters 6, and the Keilens 10. 

7-10 kids: "leaving it up to God", not particularly trying, not preventing either. Generally results in (Western) "nature's spacing" of ~2 years. Very common with fundies. 

20 kids: sweet fellowshipping like rabbits during the most fertile periods, and doing everything they can to have as many kids as possible including weaning early so periods will return sooner. 

[mpheels]

I think Cathy Dillard probably planned/spaced her pregnancies on purpose. Maybe Diana Vuolo as well. For all other Duggar-in-laws, I think their number of siblings was due to chance, fertility, and timing of marriages. That they had fewer children than JB and Michelle really just highlights how unusual the Duggars are.

[VBOY9977]

I think it’s also important to remember that Christina Caldwell was in a car accident when pregnant with Kendra. I just went back and read a recap of the ep where they mentioned it and it said that it caused some damage to her body and to have early contractions with every pregnancy. I think that was a big factor in the Caldwell’s family size, and they still managed to have 8. I think if they hadn’t had any complications they could’ve easily had 15+

Edited August 19, 2020 by VBOY9977

[HereticHick]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I’ve always said that none of them will have double digit numbers because: 1. The Duggars DID grow up in a puppy mill, and 2. Their spouses did NOT grow up in a puppy mill. Wait until one of them gets to #7 or 8, and into their 30s. It’s not going to be so cute and precious any more. Just ask Michelle. Do you think she’s going to be anyone’s laundry fairy? If the Caldwells share religious beliefs with the Duggars, how come they don’t have 15 kids? 
 

I disagree. I think Joe and Kendra could easily have 10 or more children. I also think Anna and Josh could hit the 10 mark (but not go much higher)

[AprilQuilt]

59 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Because there is a difference between actively trying to have as many kids as possible, and "leaving it up to God". "Leaving it up to God" (as people did back in the olden days), without particularly trying, but just having sweet fellowship whenever they feel like it generally results in a spacing of ~2 years and 8-10 kids. Which is what lots of fundies have. The Duggars and Bateses purposefully tried to have as many kids as possible, and hence end up with 20 kids. So if JoKen is deliberately trying to have as many kids as possible, they could end up with 20, but if they are just not preventing, and seeing how it goes, they will probably end up with 8-10 kids. 

The Caldwells have 8 kids, which is a very normal fundie size. The Kellers have 8, the Swansons 9, the Burnetts 8, the Seewalds 7, the Paines 10, the Websters 6, and the Keilens 10. 

7-10 kids: "leaving it up to God", not particularly trying, not preventing either. Generally results in (Western) "nature's spacing" of ~2 years. Very common with fundies. 

20 kids: sweet fellowshipping like rabbits during the most fertile periods, and doing everything they can to have as many kids as possible including weaning early so periods will return sooner. 

100% this. I'm sure I saw something somewhere where some Duggar-type said that basically every child that MIGHT have been, ie every ovum that went unfertilised and ended in a period, was a loss to their family and they should be mindful of that absence of a child that should have been. It's batshit.

HOWEVER, Michelle Duggar is particularly unusual and with the best will in the world, not every woman will find it as easy to have 19 kids. She's suffered only one first trimester miscarriage, and she's tended to have pretty straightforward pregnancies and deliveries. Perhaps her problems carrying Josie and Jubilee to term was her body finally reaching the limits of what it was capable of, but if she had struggled with hyperemesis, or really debilitating SPD, or if she'd regularly needed C-sections to deliver safely, would they have been as wedded to actively attempting to conceive every month? Would they have been so sure God was in favour of it? I don't doubt they went in there with a conviction to shag for Jesus, but it's easy to hold onto a conviction when the path is smooth. I hope that her daughters see that there's no shame in not matching up to her.

 

I also assume that front and centre of JB's GYM questionnaire is 'will you leave your family size up to God'? The suitors would have known they had to say yes to this in order to get the girl, but whether they really believed in it then or still do now is maybe debatable? And it's pretty much irrelevant now they're the headship. I do wonder if JB's pissed with Derick for reneging on that one, it would be a really concrete example of his deviance from the Duggar Way.

[Bobology]

Derick and Ben may have courted prior to the written questionnaire, I'm not sure. But that doesn't mean JB wouldn't have interrogated them just the same. Perhaps there ended up being something about Ben or Derick (Derick more likely) that made JB think the questionnaire was needed for future suitors.  And have any of you heard of the woman's parents being the pre-marital 'counselors' for a couple? That seems downright pervy to me.

[nausicaa]

On 8/18/2020 at 2:29 AM, neuroticcat said:

No guns here either. It’s still astonishing to me that people casually have them around the house with the idea of self-defense...as in they are actually prepared to take someone else’s life in a moment of confusion and adrenaline. 
I guess if someone must have them they should at least go to the shooting range frequently and learn how to use them calmly.

Just want to point out that a gun can be used as a deterrent without shooting anyone. People tend to back the REAL fast when they see a gun, and you can also shoot it in the air. 

I agree though that people who own a gun should take a gun safety course, know how to use it, and understand that it's a deadly weapon whose ownership carries a lot of responsibility. 

12 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I don’t understand. Why do you consider getting them if you don’t want it - at least that is how I interpret your usage of sadly ? And what does that have to do with how your election goes? Do you think armed people will storm your house? Start mass shootings in the street? Which, to me, sounds you are expecting a civil war? What the hell is going on, on your side of the pond?

I mean I own a gun and I'm not super excited about or proud of it. I am a woman who lives alone and so I consider it a last ditch tool in a worst case scenario that I hope and pray never happens. I kind of prefer people who "sadly" own guns to people who are way too proud and have made guns their personality. The latter kind are often looking for a reason to shoot. 

And I'm not saying there's going to be a civil war after the election (I think Trump and most of his cronies are physical cowards at heart), but I'm not going to lie, it has crossed my mind that I'm relieved I already own a gun and know how to use it. I'm a "cover your ass just in case" type person though. And yes, I do have a bug out bag for anyone wondering...

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

25 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Just want to point out that a gun can be used as a deterrent without shooting anyone. People tend to back the REAL fast when they see a gun, and you can also shoot it in the air. 

I would never have a gun in my house, but I was raised with them in the home and it was drilled into me that you never pull a gun with the intent to use it as a deterrent, only if you are fully prepared to use it.  

Hesitation can easily lead to it being taken from you and used against you.  That was gun safety 101 in our house just after "always assume every gun has a round in the chamber."