Joy & Austin 30: Who Needs Fire Safety when You Have Jesus?

[OyToTheVey]

On 8/5/2020 at 2:12 PM, Kelsey said:

My stance on chiropractic care is to use it for conditions that it can help with. For example, after seeing my pcp and having a bunch of tests done (ct scan, labs, medication trial periods) and getting no relief from my headaches- my doctor referred me to a chiro. I had 1 visit......and haven't had a headache in a year. 

On the other hand, if you don't have an issue likely to be solved by chiro care......don't go see one.

Prior to my docs referral, i thought people only went to chiropractors when they were trying to scam auto insurance.

I see a chiro for a few issues. When my scoliosis acts up my alignment starts getting wonky so I start walking funny. So when that gets adjusted my headaches and back pain go away with it. I know people think it's a quack but it really helps going to someone licensed and knowledgeable. 

[Vivi_music]

On 8/5/2020 at 4:26 PM, Pleiades_06 said:

That’s my experience in the Northeastern US too. 
In Northern Germany my experience has been people go to doctors and homeopaths. In fact, some doctors here specialize in homeopathy.

In both places, acupuncture and massage are recommended by doctors too.

I think there is space for all as long as people acknowledge medical science is important and don’t only rely on chiropractors and homeopaths for advice.

Wow, social perceptions are so different, it is fascinating. I'm in Quebec and here Chiropractic is usually perceived by the public as a legitimate practice that can help in different circumstances. In fact, here the chiropractic program is given at a licensed and well reputed University, accredited and recognized by the health minister of Quebec and Doctor's association. It is a 4 years B.A. program.

Whereas homepathy is REALLY seen a a quackery and I don't know any doctor who would recommend it to a patient (not judging anyone who uses homeopathy, just sharing with you the public perception in my home province). Considering it takes no degree at all to call yourself a homeopath here, it is really seen with a weary eye. Same with Osteopathy, which is not recognized as a profession here in Quebec.

[mpheels]

1 hour ago, Vivi_music said:

Wow, social perceptions are so different, it is fascinating. I'm in Quebec and here Chiropractic is usually perceived by the public as a legitimate practice that can help in different circumstances. In fact, here the chiropractic program is given at a licensed and well reputed University, accredited and recognized by the health minister of Quebec and Doctor's association. It is a 4 years B.A. program.

Whereas homepathy is REALLY seen a a quackery and I don't know any doctor who would recommend it to a patient (not judging anyone who uses homeopathy, just sharing with you the public perception in my home province). Considering it takes no degree at all to call yourself a homeopath here, it is really seen with a weary eye. Same with Osteopathy, which is not recognized as a profession here in Quebec.

In contrast with the US, where chiropractors are pretty much unregulated, but osteopaths (DO) go through the same post-graduate training and licensure process as allopathic doctors (MD).

There is some empirical evidence that chiropractic care, massage, and acupuncture/acupressure are helpful for some conditions. Some practitioners over promise and/or practice beyond the scope of their training. To be fair, a lot of MDs do the same and a shocking amount of what we accept as standard medical practice is based on best guesses and intuition. Once those intuitive practices become entrenched , it’s really hard to change them, no matter how much evidence we get to disprove the theory.

[Mama Mia]

I wonder if they are Q anon believers too? I wouldn’t be surprised. I like Joy and Austin, they remind me of some of my kids — ( if they grew up non-fundie, in California) - but those kind of conspiracy theories are really popular, and shockingly easy to fall into. 

[AussieKrissy]

I love conspiracy theories. I take all of them with a grain of salt though. Some I believe are more likely than others and some I think may be right but the conspiracy have got the wrong details, time  or people for example... 

i do love me some Alien Duese bigalow guy.... 

[just_ordinary]

On 8/8/2020 at 5:28 PM, Vivi_music said:

Wow, social perceptions are so different, it is fascinating. I'm in Quebec and here Chiropractic is usually perceived by the public as a legitimate practice that can help in different circumstances. In fact, here the chiropractic program is given at a licensed and well reputed University, accredited and recognized by the health minister of Quebec and Doctor's association. It is a 4 years B.A. program.

Whereas homepathy is REALLY seen a a quackery and I don't know any doctor who would recommend it to a patient (not judging anyone who uses homeopathy, just sharing with you the public perception in my home province). Considering it takes no degree at all to call yourself a homeopath here, it is really seen with a weary eye. Same with Osteopathy, which is not recognized as a profession here in Quebec.

While a lot of people use Homeopathy it is definitely more seen as an additional treatment or used in cases were normal medication is just treating symptoms instead of curing, so for easy things like a cold. There is also a big difference between homeopathy and natural medicine. I think it is basically using the placebo effect and if that kicks in for you, that is great. But I would argue that the majority is still not believing in it or seeing it as on the same level as normal medicine. Same goes for Schüßler Salt or Bachblüten.

Homeopathy, Osteopathy, Schüßler Salze und Bachblüten seem to go hand in hand but most people are all too happy to use normal medicine and doctors if needed. Universal healthcare definitely helps because you don’t have too think twice if you are making the appointment or not. Waiting times and the favouritism of privately insured patients is very annoying, but to my experience you will get an appointment fast if you have a serious condition. Like with everything you can come across a great doctor or an condescending and unfeeling asshole. That’s life but no one keeps you from changing doctors.

[Cheetah]

So are we on baby watch here yet?  Wonder if she's having a scheduled c-section?  If so it would likely be this week, right?  

[VBOY9977]

4 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

So are we on baby watch here yet?  Wonder if she's having a scheduled c-section?  If so it would likely be this week, right?  

I don’t think she’s having a scheduled c-section. In her YT video where she packs her hospital bag she mentions going to the chiropractor and that he was trying to align her hips so that the baby would drop and get in position. I don’t know a lot about this topic but I’d imagine this wouldn’t be necessary with a scheduled c-section. 

[Timetraveler]

I honestly really do not know why, but I am a bit scared for her; hopefully all goes well.

I always feel a bit anxious when a Duggar sister is about to give birth; they often have difficult/dangerous births.

[Jrodseyeliner]

How old is Gideon? OB’s here in Aus don’t recommend a Vbac for 24 months. But he is over 2 isn’t he? 

[VBOY9977]

20 minutes ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

How old is Gideon? OB’s here in Aus don’t recommend a Vbac for 24 months. But he is over 2 isn’t he? 

He turned 2 in February.

[Bobology]

Thinking about a chiropractor swiveling Joy's hips, so to speak, made me wonder. When a fundie woman goes to a male gyn or ob, must her husband accompany her and remain in the room? Or is a fundie female relative/friend enough protection? How about the doc's female nurse or assistant, would that be enough?

I once had to go to the ER and have an ultrasound (so, so not pregnant, it was for something else) and the ultrasound tech was male. Would a fundie have to request a female tech or else demand a female staff member be in the room with her if there were no available or suitable friends/relatives with her? I'm talking about an external ultrasound. I don't know how fundies are with or deal with male doctors whenever <gasp> skin is shown. According to Michelle... can't see the skin of the mama! (Yes, I'm making fun of her, but my questions are legit.)

[Giraffe]

@Bobology, my assumption is the rules conveniently adjust in those instances. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I agree. I think Michelle is just making a big, dramatic show of this because she's Michelle. 

[AussieKrissy]

I dunno man, I worry for Joy. I had one emergency c section, no labour at all. I’m untested in labour.  Joy was tested in labour and failed. I would be booking a c section and just waiting for that baby safely in my arms. Then again I did do ok after a c section. Do you think it’s the holy mother martyrdom driving the desire for a natural birth or a real dislike of c section/recoveries? Yes yes I know not all labour’s are the same, but she has one c section that makes it harder to come back from. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

We should be on baby watch, she's due in 9 days, and she went into labor w/ G on her due date, so she could go any day now. 

I'm not worried for Joy, she's had prenatal care, she's delivering AT a hospital with an OB & nurses, she's a very good candidate for a VBAC. She did deliver Annabelle, though delivering a less than 1lb baby is significantly different than delivering a 10+ pound baby.  She'll be monitored and if required she'll have c/section. Did she mention being induced if she makes it to 40 weeks since Gideon was so big or am I pulling that out of my ass? 

She didn't labor at home for 3 days like Jill did with Israel & however long she labored with Samuel.  Joy labored at home for several hours, but most women do that. In the US the hospital won't usually admit you until you are 4cm dilated so no point going at the 1st signs of labor.  Only Jill & Jessa have been totally reckless trying for & having home births, Jessa needs to stop, the next hemorrhage could kill her and she's stupid for insisting on delivering at home. I think Jill learned a lesson with whatever went horribly wrong with Samuel (something required a 2 week NICU stay and extended hospitalization for Jill) I think IF Jill has anymore kids she will have scheduled c/sections. 

My cousin had her 1st baby emergency c/s but her next 3 kids were VBAC, it was important to her to have VBACs if possible, and she was able to do that, the only difference was she had to be delivered by an OB and not her midwife like she wanted, since she was slightly higher risk for uterine rupture.  I had 2 c/sections, after protracted labor and an emergency c/section with #1 I was NOT wanting to even bother with #2, I was unable to push out an 8lb baby and #2 baby was over a pound bigger, there was no way I was getting her out. If She had been smaller I may have tried but I can't say that 100%.  Everyone is different, these women plan on having LOTS of babies, if you have multiple c/sections with your 1st 3 or 4 kids that is going to cut down on the number of kids they are able to have.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by allthegoodnamesrgone

[VBOY9977]

@allthegoodnamesrgone She did mention in her last YT video that the doctor had said they would talk about induction if she went past 40 weeks since Gideon was so big.

I’m not worried about Joy either. She seems to have learned from her past experience and is making a wise decision based on that. I hope it all goes well, she’s had 2 traumatic births already, she deserves a good birthing experience. 

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I dunno man, I worry for Joy. I had one emergency c section, no labour at all. I’m untested in labour.  Joy was tested in labour and failed. I would be booking a c section and just waiting for that baby safely in my arms. Then again I did do ok after a c section. Do you think it’s the holy mother martyrdom driving the desire for a natural birth or a real dislike of c section/recoveries? Yes yes I know not all labour’s are the same, but she has one c section that makes it harder to come back from. 

Every one is different obviously, but I had 3 c-sections and one v-bac. I’d take the v-bac recovery 20 times over the c-section - and I had 3rd degree tears. For me it wasn’t martyrdom, it’s that I dislike major surgery and had a lot of problems with healing / scarring etc....  Particularly if I planned to have 3 or more kids I’d be wanting v-bacs. It’s not a zipper ?

[dawbs]

6 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Every one is different obviously, but I had 3 c-sections and one v-bac. I’d take the v-bac recovery 20 times over the c-section - and I had 3rd degree tears. For me it wasn’t martyrdom, it’s that I dislike major surgery and had a lot of problems with healing / scarring etc....  Particularly if I planned to have 3 or more kids I’d be wanting v-bacs. It’s not a zipper ?

Seconded.  Well, almost.

I had a 'almost c-section' (abdominal surgery on my ovaries, my doc described it as 'c section w/o a baby') and then had a baby through induced and uncomplicated labor.

Even with the added stress of having a friggin baby hanging from a boob during recover, the baby recovery was 3 million times easier.
(in both cases, I went back to work 6 weeks later; only in the surgery-only case was I still a complete disaster at that point. The 'baby' version I was still recovering  but was 3 gazillion times easier.

 

[Jrodseyeliner]

17 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Every one is different obviously, but I had 3 c-sections and one v-bac. I’d take the v-bac recovery 20 times over the c-section - and I had 3rd degree tears. For me it wasn’t martyrdom, it’s that I dislike major surgery and had a lot of problems with healing / scarring etc....  Particularly if I planned to have 3 or more kids I’d be wanting v-bacs. It’s not a zipper ?

I have yet to meet anyone that loves major surgery???  ??? In my 10 years experience as a theatre nurse, not one patient has been excited for major surgery.. 

Like someone said above, I hope she has a safe birthing experience
 

[indianabones]

I wonder if Joy and Austin still have the puppy they got back in February? Joy's last post about her was in March... Perhaps she was sent to the same place as Jake Vuolo.

[dolcez]

I've been on Baby Watch since Joy reached* early term on July 29, 2020! (Thanks, DuggarData!) Glad to know I'm not alone on this, haha.

* is this correct phrasing? I have no experience with pregnancy. 

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I dunno man, I worry for Joy. I had one emergency c section, no labour at all. I’m untested in labour.  Joy was tested in labour and failed. I would be booking a c section and just waiting for that baby safely in my arms. Then again I did do ok after a c section. Do you think it’s the holy mother martyrdom driving the desire for a natural birth or a real dislike of c section/recoveries? Yes yes I know not all labour’s are the same, but she has one c section that makes it harder to come back from. 

Joy has been visiting real doctors and is going to a real hospital, so if they let her try to deliver naturally, there's no reason to suspect it's risky at all.

 Also, Joy didn't fail anything: it was her midwife who failed not to sending her to a hospital sooner. Having one kid in breech does not mean next kids won't be in a right position. And she deliver her little Annabelle.

[justoneoftwo]

Everyone is different. My first was a very easy delivery, my second a c section. The second recovery was way easier, even with being older, and having a toddler already.  I would still try for a vbac, but only because not being allowed to pick up my oldest sucked.

[Sullie06]

I would chose a C Section again 100%. Yes it's major surgery but my recovery after was so much better than it was with my first who I had vaginally. Maybe it's different though because my C Section was planned with #2 (I had Placenta Previa) and I was preparing for it mentally for months. With my son I had a long labor (almost 20 hours) and a big baby (9lbs 9oz) and had 2nd degree tears. The thought of going through a long labor again gives me such anxiety. Then again, I'm done having children anyway so maybe if I was actually planning to get pregnant again I would explore a VBAC but I doubt it.