No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[Florita]

Just finished reading the affidavit of probable cause (https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/96/c1/c0d8cb684f5a87aee1560040bcd0/affidavit-of-probable-cause.pdf)

It appears Lori didn't confess after all. They found the remains via Alex Cox's phone pings. Wow!!

And Chad tried to run!?!

[TuringMachine]

Is there enough there to charge Lori and Chad with murder?  Or conspiracy?

[Howl]

Cell phone forensics, bruh.  Staggeringly incriminating.  @TuringMachine, stick a fork in these people, they're done!  It's just a matter of time until the murder charges come about, although Lori is at a remove form everything.  Lori's at home in her apt. while Chad is placed at the scene of the crime.  One the other hand, Lori has an inept and clueless attorney. 

Cell phone pings from Lori Vallow's late brother led investigators to the bodies of her children

Chad texted Tammy that morning that he'd shot a raccoon and buried it near their pet cemetery, and that he's "had an interesting morning",  when in reality he been in involved in the murder of his lover's children and the disposal of their bodies. ETA: Documents detail horrific manner JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found in Chad Daybell’s yard

From the CNN article linked above: 

Quote

About 14 minutes after Cox's phone last registers being in the backyard, Daybell texts his then-wife Tammy Daybell to tell her he shot a raccoon that morning and buried it in their pet cemetery.

"Well, I've had an interesting morning," he writes.

The investigator, recalling that raccoons are usually nocturnal, notes his suspicion in the affidavit, and says the pet cemetery is where Cox's phone had been.

Chad's hearing, originally scheduled for July 1, has been moved to August.  

Edited June 20, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Update: Scott Reisch (Voir Dire podcast) has clarified that Chad Daybell has NOT plead guilty. His first  opportunity to plead anything will be at his preliminary hearing, currently scheduled for the first week of August.  On the day of the preliminary hearing (if Chad pleads not guilty) the clock starts ticking on the 6-month window to get Chad to trial.

[nvmbr02]

Body Cam footage from the Gilbert (AZ) police from January 2019. Charles is explaining that Lori has had a mental break and he fears for his life and the life of the children. ? 

 NBC 12 news (local news article) 
'She needs some serious help‘

 

[Florita]

It appears Idaho does NOT allow an insanity defense. Telling everyone who will listen that your children are "zombies" isn't going to help Chad & Lori.

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Florita said:

It appears Idaho does NOT allow an insanity defense.

Idaho: no insanity defense and the death penalty.

Not looking good for our wing-nut but spunky middle-aged lovebirds, now held in two different jails.  Why, it was just months ago that Chad was strumming a uke and they were getting married on the beach...now they are probably two of the most reviled people in America.  

New Dateline on Monday! 

Also, detail: When Chad was texting Tammy about shooting a raccoon (as an explanation for a gun shot?) and the time frame when the kids were being murdered, Tammy was away for a week visiting her parents.  I recall that the visit was at Chad's insistence, but I can't remember for sure. 

Would one of the adult kids have been living in the house at that time? 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Howl

[EmmieJ]

Don't know if any adult kids were living with Chad and Tammy when Lori's children went missing, but the affidavit stated that Chad was parked across the street in his daughter's driveway watching the FBI search before he drove off (then got his ass arrested).  So grown children living with or right across the street while innocent children were buried at Chad's home.  

And side note, but if someone tells me their child has turned into a zombie, I'm contacting the authorities.  Why did zero of the people who were told this by Lori do nothing?  What sort of reality do they inhabit that these remarks caused no concern?  Everyone involved seems questionable to me.

[Howl]

The other weird thing is that the Daybell property has very few trees and looks like it has county roads on three sides.  Unless you're doing something in the dead of a moonless night, somebody is going to see what you're up to. 

 

[Howl]

So, thinking about it, the whole thing must have been planned out.  Chad would have clandestinely prepared the hole where JJ was buried (it wasn't that deep) in anticipation of the murder.  Tylee was much larger and (if reports are accurate) she was dismembered OR her remains were scattered around in the process of burning.  Horrific, all of it. 

I do think Alex Cox died of natural causes -- his autopsy showed extensive atherosclerosis and I think he had a blood clot in his lungs. He had reported feeling ill with chest pain for a week and refused to go to the doctor.

I would think that being involved with three murders (Charles Vallow, JJ, Tylee) and possibly the attempted assassination of Melani's (ex) husband would be a source of immense stress. 

If JJ's autopsy showed he was poisoned/overdosed, it may reflect how Tammy was killed. 

 

 

[meep]

23 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

Don't know if any adult kids were living with Chad and Tammy when Lori's children went missing, but the affidavit stated that Chad was parked across the street in his daughter's driveway watching the FBI search before he drove off (then got his ass arrested).  So grown children living with or right across the street while innocent children were buried at Chad's home.  

And side note, but if someone tells me their child has turned into a zombie, I'm contacting the authorities.  Why did zero of the people who were told this by Lori do nothing?  What sort of reality do they inhabit that these remarks caused no concern?  Everyone involved seems questionable to me.

Not mormon, but growing up around fundies in conservative Christianity, my mom would tell others that my sibling and I had the devil/demons inside of us. It wasn't uncommon to hear other parents say the same things. Zombie would be a weird choice of word, but at the time, I don't think I or my parents would have questioned it. 

19 hours ago, Howl said:

The other weird thing is that the Daybell property has very few trees and looks like it has county roads on three sides.  Unless you're doing something in the dead of a moonless night, somebody is going to see what you're up to. 

 

If he's often burning and burying animals and wood, I wonder if his neighbors wouldn't register that anything significant was happening? And if he's most immediate neighbors are his family, maybe he knows their schedules really well planned things for when they wouldn't be home. ???

[Howl]

Yes, I think Tammy was visiting her parents for the week (at Chad's insistence?) when the killing and burying was going on.  The property is three or four acres, and cars driving by or neighbors a hundred yards or more away  would not think anything is remiss. 

[meep]

Did anyone else watch the updated Dateline episode on Monday? Very sad. It turns out Melanie did go to the police eventually after all and told them what she knew. I feel bad for Colby (Tylee's brother), that side of the family has basically been decimated. 

[TuringMachine]

21 minutes ago, meep said:

Did anyone else watch the updated Dateline episode on Monday? Very sad. It turns out Melanie did go to the police eventually after all and told them what she knew. I feel bad for Colby (Tylee's brother), that side of the family has basically been decimated. 

Which Melanie, the niece or the friend?

[Howl]

2 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Which Melanie, the niece or the friend?

Melanie Gibb is the friend and she did eventually go to the police.  She was supposed to have been interviewed on the Dateline show (I think).  My DVR was supposed to record and didn't. 

Melani (no "e")  Budreaux Pawlowski (Lori's niece) was at least interviewed by police. 

Morbid curiosity: Had Lori already decided to do away with JJ when she returned his therapy dog in Arizona and took him off medication? These two things were apparently important to keeping JJ on an even keel. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Howl

[EmmieJ]

I feel better to hear Melanie Gibb did go to the police with her information, such as it was.  

[WiseGirl]

A statement from Lori's sister, https://people.com/crime/ori-vallows-sister-statement-2-kids-deaths/

"Shiflet says that her trust in her sister was misplaced. "I was wrong," she reportedly wrote in her Facebook post. "

[Howl]

The carnage wreaked by Chad and Lori is staggering.  At first, Lori was cast as the home wrecker femme fatale, with semi-schlubby Chad as her feckless target.  It's not looking that way anymore.  

Edited June 25, 2020 by Howl

[Ozlsn]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:30 AM, Howl said:

Morbid curiosity: Had Lori already decided to do away with JJ when she returned his therapy dog in Arizona and took him off medication? These two things were apparently important to keeping JJ on an even keel. 

Yes. In my opinion at least. I actually thought he was already dead when the dog was returned, the medication sounds like a belief that it's Evil Pharma causing the problems, so we'll discontinue. Then of course he's "possessed by demons". 

The dog being returned was when I was certain that he was dead, because there was no other reason he wouldn't need it, and there was no way a loving or even just competent carer would have returned it if he wasn't. The fact she tried to sell it first was a huge flag. 

I feel so sorry for both kids, they were both so vulnerable. I did hope that maybe Tylee had escaped and gone into hiding in fear - but JJ I was certain was dead because he was so young and his needs so great that I didn't think he could have. 

[TuringMachine]

Police searched Chad's house again today

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/police-executing-search-warrant-at-chad-daybells-home/

What could they be looking for now?

[Howl]

More charges for Lori!  The courts aren't open yet, but more detail about the charges should be available today, Tuesday, June 30. 

Lori Vallow Daybell charged with conspiracy to conceal evidence

 

[Howl]

Shit's getting real for Ms. Lori

Lori Daybell lied and conspired to conceal the deaths of her children, documents allege

Lori Daybell set for court hearing Tuesday on new criminal charges (that Tuesday, today, June 30th). Looks like she has the same inept lawyer. 

In Texas, if you somehow are involved in a murder but did not actually do the killing, you are equally culpable.  For example, you are the getaway car driver in a bank heist where a bank guard is killed, you can face murder charges. Don't know how this works in Idaho.  

If they found Lori's fingerprints or DNA on JJ or the plastic he was wrapped in...

When July 22 (the date for the big changes when the 144,000 something something) comes and goes, and all hope for an easy out is lost, who knows what will happen.  Unless there is an earthquake with unfortunate timing or some other coincidental event...

[Howl]

From this East Idaho News post yesterday, June 30:  Daybell lied and conspired to conceal the deaths of her children, documents allege

Quote

[Melanie] Gibb began working with police in November after Lori and Chad asked her to lie to officers. She told them that when she arrived in Rexburg to visit Lori in September, “Vallow informed Gibb that she had arranged for JJ to go live with his grandma, Kay Woodcock,” Ball says. “Vallow further told Gibb she had told Kay that she had cancer in order to convince Kay Woodcock to take JJ. Vallow further elaborated to Gibb that she had traveled with JJ and handed him off to Kay in an airport.”

So remarkably sad that instead of actually asking Kay Woodcock to care for JJ, Lori and Chad (and Alex?) decided to kill him.  

I keep thinking there is a money angle.   Lori was likely receiving some type of benefits (state, Federal) for JJ and didn't want to lose that money by returning JJ to Kay. 

[Howl]

Chad was in Zoom court today to hear the amended charges against him.   Formalities, but hearing the judge read out the charges was pretty chilling.  Chad showed no emotion; he was...neutral, I guess.  He wasn't wearing jail clothes; white shirt and tie. 

[Howl]

On 6/20/2020 at 12:49 AM, TuringMachine said:

Is there enough there to charge Lori and Chad with murder?  Or conspiracy?

In Chad's latest charges:

Quote

"On or about September 9, 2019, Chad Guy Daybell sent text messages to another for the purpose of disguising the destruction, alteration and/or concealment of human remains on his property." 

The "another" could only have been Alex or Lori, or, I suppose, both. 

Anyone else starting the count down to July 22, the beginning of the End Times when the 144,000 go to live in white tents?  What will happen when they don't have Lori and Chad to lead them? 

Actually, whoever ends up  leading the exodus for the 144,000 to live in Tent City  should consult with the group that puts together Burning Man. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Howl