No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[Chickenbutt]

Daybell defense attorneys file motion regarding DNA testing - East Idaho News

The state wants to do further DNA testing, on what it doesn't really say, and it will use up all the remaining DNA samples. Chad and Lori are requesting an expedited hearing to discuss it. 

Attorneys in Vallow, Daybell case quarrel over DNA | ktvb.com   (another article)

 

[pooplexed]

On 2/28/2021 at 12:53 PM, Bobology said:

@WiseGirl, thanks for the heads-up. I watched it and though I can't say I learned any noticeable new thing, I do appreciate seeing the differences in layout and approach of the whole situation by each of the productions.

I've seen Lori's mom interviewed on other shows but this time I caught something she said. I may have heard it before but wasn't paying attention. In reference to Alex Cox's funeral/memorial service, their mom said, "We didn't invite anyone to his service who believed he was a murderer, so it was a very small, precious group of us who loved him."

Sounds like basically everyone other than a few immediate family members DO believe he was a murderer. Even then, how many of the small, precious group who loved him secretly thought or wondered if he had murdered?

Ha, ha. Forgot that one.

Nobody who believed he was a murderer was invited.

So, it seems, only the very small, precious group who loved him enough to have evidence that he certainly was a murderer were present. 

He was on a mission from - whatever kind of beings his sister and bro in law were. I don't mean to suggest that they do not appear as guilty or more so, in my opinion.

[Bobology]

If Lori and Alex's mom had been thinking ahead she could have said something more that would tend to cast Alex in a murderous light (as opposed to protecting him after his death) thereby helping to "protect" Lori at her eventual trial. Maybe kind of. Because if Alex didn't kill and try to kill those different people then it was Lori and Chad. And I'm pretty sure Lori and Chad will be throwing dead Alex under all the buses they can find.

[EmmieJ]

CourtTV put up a short video this morning titled "Breaking:  Grand Jury Subpoenas Issued in Doomsday Couple Case."  According to "multiple unnamed sources" the Fremont County prosecutor's office is to convene a grand jury investigation into the deaths of JJ, Tylee and Tammy Daybell, starting May 17th.  Subpoenas supposedly going out to members of the community.  Whatever that means.

Tammy Daybell's autopsy was finally completed at some point but I do not believe any details have been released about those results.  I wonder if any of the peripheral people in Chad and Lori's circle have been talking with investigators.  Maybe So indictments for murder are coming down for both Lori and Chad?

[TuringMachine]

On 5/8/2021 at 2:09 PM, EmmieJ said:

CourtTV put up a short video this morning titled "Breaking:  Grand Jury Subpoenas Issued in Doomsday Couple Case."  According to "multiple unnamed sources" the Fremont County prosecutor's office is to convene a grand jury investigation into the deaths of JJ, Tylee and Tammy Daybell, starting May 17th.  Subpoenas supposedly going out to members of the community.  Whatever that means.

It's pretty thoroughly explained here

Spoiler

 

Some key points since it's long:

• The subpoenas are for gathering people to serve on the grand jury
• In Idaho the prosecutor can choose between a grand jury and a preliminary hearing. For the current charges (the destruction / concealment of evidence) Wood opted for a preliminary hearing, which seems to be the most common choice in Idaho.
• The fact that they're doing a grand jury now is a pretty definite sign these are more serious charges since unlike the preliminary hearings, grand jury proceedings are not public.
• The burden of proof for a grand jury is much lower than that of the criminal proceedings: more likely than not as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt. So we can feel pretty secure they'll vote to indict.
• Lori, Chad, and their lawyers will not be there.
• We'll likely see confirmation that the grand jury subpoenas have gone out some time next week.
• We'll see what the charges are very soon after the grand jury reaches their decision.

[Howl]

I don't know why this popped into my mind at this late date, but what if Tammy Daybell had somehow discovered the human remains in the fire pit or became suspicious, meaning that Chad and Lori decided she had to die. 

On the other hand, I think they decided she had to die because they needed the money from her life insurance to fund fun in Hawaii.

I do think the weird episode Tammy reported of someone with a "paint gun" was a failed hit.  I'm assuming it was Alex Cox and he lost his nerve, so it was just a matter of time until her husband/Lori figured out another way to do her in. 

It would be great if one of these horrible people turned on the other, and we could find out what really happened. 

[EmmieJ]

I think Tammy Daybell trusted her POS husband to the very end. 

I agree that the "paint gun" episode was a failed hit, most likely by Alex Cox.  (The timing and circumstances of his death are very odd to me - and certainly very convenient for Chad and Lori).  When that hit didn't work out as hoped, I think Chad took matters into his own hands and gave Tammy something that ended her life.  Some sort of hard to detect poison?  

As far as turning on each other, which one has more to offer the authorities? I am certain both of them were happy to have Alex do their dirty work for them, but Chad had to be involved along with Alex in burying the bodies on Chad's property.  Lori stayed home, sung hymns and entertained herself with delusions of grandeur as the high priestess of their wierdo cult.

I'm in no way excusing Lori, who is a horrible evil person, but I think she actually really believed the mumbo-jumbo Chad was selling; while I believe Chad was infatuated with Lori's attractiveness.  I see him as always wanting to be see as someone special, when he was really an average nerdy guy.  He meets Lori and she is quite attractive, vibrant, draws a lot of male attention -- and she finds him interesting!  She falls for him.  I bet he could hardly believe his luck.   What I wonder is:  does Lori still believe that Chad and she were predestined to meet, that they have shared many past lives, and that he and she are destined to lead the world (or what remains of it after the apocolypse)?  If so, she is very unlikely to turn on him.

On the other hand, if Chad never really believed any of his baloney, and he's facing down a long prison term, he may well figure it's better to strike whatever deal he can with the D.A. and find another gullible woman later on.

[FiveAcres]

First degree murder charges filed against Vallow; conspiracy to murder charges filed against Daybell.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/murder-charges-announced-against-lori-vallow-and-chad-daybell/article_3ab110d4-bd8e-11eb-b20d-9bd2525ea2e9.html

Not much else, but this is an apparently legit news source.

[TuringMachine]

27 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

First degree murder charges filed against Vallow; conspiracy to murder charges filed against Daybell.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/murder-charges-announced-against-lori-vallow-and-chad-daybell/article_3ab110d4-bd8e-11eb-b20d-9bd2525ea2e9.html

Not much else, but this is an apparently legit news source.

This appears not completely accurate, Lori and Chad were both charged with conspiracy to commit murder for Tammy, JJ, and Tylee, and both were charged for the murder of the two children. Chad was charged with murder for Tammy.

You can find the press conference here https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/05/chad-and-lori-daybell-indicted-for-murders-of-jj-vallow-tylee-ryan-and-tammy-daybell/

Here's the full list of charges from that source:

Quote

1. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on the charge of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder and grand theft by deception for the death of Tylee Ryan.
2. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on the charge of first-degree murder for the death of Tylee Ryan.
3. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on the charge of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder and grand theft by deception for the death of JJ Vallow.
4. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on the charge of first-degree murder for the death of JJ Vallow.
5. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on the charge of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder in the death of Tammy Daybell.
6. Chad Daybell was indicted on the charge of first-degree murder in the death of his wife Tammy Daybell.
7. Lori Daybell was indicted on the charge of grand theft related to Social Security Survivor benefits over $1,000 allocated for the care of minors Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow that were appropriated after the children were missing and ultimately found deceased.
8. Chad Daybell was indicted on the charge of insurance fraud related to a life insurance policy he had on Tammy Daybell for which he was the beneficiary and received funds after her death.
9. Chad Daybell was indicted on the charge of insurance fraud related to another life insurance policy he had on Tammy Daybell for which he was the beneficiary and received funds after her death.

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I just got a notification from the local news. I guess KTVB doesn't have anything on FJ sleuths!   I don't have time to read right now, so this may well be just a recap of the East Idaho News article 

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/crime/vallow-daybell-murder-charges/277-58d3aa10-6d51-4e2c-b2b9-7dd1a9ade829

[TuringMachine]

I just learned today would have been JJ's 9th birthday. Hopefully you get your justice soon little man.

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I just got a notification from the local news. I guess KTVB doesn't have anything on FJ sleuths!   I don't have time to read right now, so this may well be just a recap of the East Idaho News article 

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/crime/vallow-daybell-murder-charges/277-58d3aa10-6d51-4e2c-b2b9-7dd1a9ade829

I happened to be over on the Websleuths message board when the news broke. I couldn't really find anything on mainstream media except for the rather terse article link I posted above.  Now I am off to read the East Idaho News article because they have been doing excellent work on this case. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I just quickly read the East Idaho News article and the KTVB article. One thing jumped out at me from the one I linked.

Quote

The new charges come as Vallow was declared indigent.

I assume that Lori being declared indigent will affect her legal representation. There already seems to have been a big difference in the quality of Chad's lawyer vs the quality of Lori's lawyer. If Lori now gets a public defender, that would be interesting. 

Of course, if Chad's money to pay his lawyer has been mostly the money from Tammy's life insurance (which he is now indicted for obtaining by fraud), I suppose Chad may not be able to pay an expensive lawyer anymore! 

I'm glad we're finally seeing some results from the work that has (hopefully!) been going on outside of the public eye.

Edited May 25, 2021 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
As far as I know, Chad Daybell only has one lawyer.

[EmmieJ]

You can watch the brief press conference on YouTube, via Crime Talk.  

Wow.  I do believe these two are going down.  As to Lori being broke, the Court appointed Mark Means as her "public defender" because to appoint a new attorney would cause a serious delay.  I think Means will only be able to charge a lesser hourly rate, and his bills will be reviewed before approved for payment.

since Chad is charged with Tami's murder, does that mean the autopsy results showed evidence of foul play?

[TuringMachine]

2 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

You can watch the brief press conference on YouTube, via Crime Talk.  

Wow.  I do believe these two are going down.  As to Lori being broke, the Court appointed Mark Means as her "public defender" because to appoint a new attorney would cause a serious delay.  I think Means will only be able to charge a lesser hourly rate, and his bills will be reviewed before approved for payment.

since Chad is charged with Tami's murder, does that mean the autopsy results showed evidence of foul play?

I saw someone on the subreddit (so take this with a grain of salt) that Means is not qualified to defend someone against murder charges so he wouldn't be allowed to defend her now. Also Prior might not be qualified to be lead council but could be on the team. So I think we can expect Lori at least to be getting new representation.

As for the autopsy, no details have been made public, but it seems likely.

[EmmieJ]

I searched around to see what news I could find about whether Mark Means has been or will be appointed by the Court to continue representing Lori.  I first heard this on a youtube video published on Monday (05/24) by Scott Reich of Crime Talk.  He said that initially, Chad Daybell provided money for Lori's defense attorney, via the money he received from Tami Daybell's life insurance policy (policies?).  I'm not sure if that's a certain fact but he's usually pretty good about not speculating.

Not surprisingly, Means has run through that initial retainer and no more money is coming his way via Chad Daybell.  (In fact, I am certain the insurance company is going to try to claw back whatever funds they can squeeze out of old Chad, if and when he is convicted of killing Tami.)  Chad's attorney, Prior, has a lien against Chad's property to cover his legal fees.  This is not considered ethical in some states but perhaps in Idaho it is allowed.  Chad, through his attorney, has filed a request to have his trial heard separately from Lori's - while Lori, through her attorney, has indicated that they have no problem with a joint trial.

In a short article on East Idaho News from May 21st, the Judge declared Lori indigent.  Normally a public defender would be appointed, but then the case would have to start all over again, to allow the new attorney to review all the discovery and properly prepare for and defend her.  In a one-sentence paragraph (3rd paragraph in the article), Means confirmed he would continue to represent Lori - which makes it sound like the judge appointed him to do so, and most likely at whatever the State rate is (Reich seemed to think between $45-$80/hour).  (Just for a little context, I work for a family law attorney in California and her hourly rate is somewhere between $350-$450/hour.  I'm not going to say her exact hourly rate, but just want to say that $45 to $80/hour to defend a possible death penalty case is not a whole lot.  I make somewhat close to $35/hour myself as a legal assistant.)

ETA:  I would agree with that subredditor that Means is in over his head in this case.  He has no prior experience in criminal law, especially a very serious case such as this.  I think he's doing it for the publicity and perhaps he has a huge ego and thinks he's doing a bang up job so far.

Edited May 25, 2021 by EmmieJ

[Chickenbutt]

Just heard on AZFamily News that Chad and Lori will be in court tomorrow morning at 10 and 10:30 am. 

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

Means is in over his head in this case.  He has no prior experience in criminal law, especially a very serious case such as this. 

All this. I could see that the court might keep him on if a public defender with criminal law expertise were also appointed. Means could then provide some continuity for the case. If Means is Lori's primary/sole legal representative, however, that's not good for her defense or the possible outcome at trial.

Don't get me wrong -- Chad & Lori completely deserve what I hope will be guilty verdicts on all counts. I just don't want to see Lori get off through a mistrial or something because she was able to claim that she had inadequate legal representation.

 

[Howl]

Just saw this on CNN. 

Also in the CNN article:

Quote

Daybell also is charged with insurance fraud, while Vallow is charged with grand theft for allegedly continuing to draw Social Security benefits for her children after their deaths.

Holy Schmoley, did y'all read the indictment?  

First paragraph:  "The defendants, Chad Guy Daybell, Lori Norene Vallow and Alex Cox (deceased) and other co-conspirators, both known and unknown, on or between the dates of October 26, 2018 and January 15, 2020...as part of a continuing criminal transaction as part of a common scheme or plan, did willfully and knowingly combine, conspire, confederate and agree to commit murder in the First Degree of Tylee Ryan." 

"Co conspirators, both known and unknown" really caught my attention. So, maybe others (Lori's niece comes to mind) are going to be charged? 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Howl

[Chickenbutt]

Just heard on the AZ news something that had fallen by the wayside. Charles Vallow's killing. Lori is still being investigated by Maricopa County for her role in the killing of Charles Vallow. Girl is sooooo screwed. 

@HowlCan you post the link to the indictment please. Thanks. 

[church_of_dog]

6 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

I happened to be over on the Websleuths message board when the news broke. 

Same here.  I'm Auntie Cipation over there, btw.  (I thought "Church of Dog" might offend folks not on a religious snark board... )

Edited May 26, 2021 by church_of_dog

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

 

@HowlCan you post the link to the indictment please. Thanks. 

I'm found the indictment here. 

https://www.wtvr.com/news/national/court-documents-chad-daybell-lori-vallow-indicted-on-murder-charges-insurance-fraud

I'll try to put screenshots of all 11 pages under spoilers. 

Spoiler

Page 1

Spoiler

Page 2

Spoiler

Page 3

Spoiler

Page 4

Spoiler

Page 5

Spoiler

Page 6

Spoiler

Page 7

Spoiler

Page 8

Spoiler

Page 9

Spoiler

Page 10

Spoiler

Page 11

 

There are a lot of details in some of the sections of the indictments. On the last two pages, there's also a list of witnesses who testified before the grand jury. 

IANAL (nor do I play one on tv), so I haven't read many indictments. Do they usually have this level of detail?

[Chickenbutt]

Nor am I a lawyer, but I have read quite a few Grand Jury Indictments and they have all been pretty detailed. Thank you so much for posting it. 

[FiveAcres]

8 hours ago, church_of_dog said:

Same here.  I'm Auntie Cipation over there, btw.  (I thought "Church of Dog" might offend folks not on a religious snark board... )

Yeah. Websleuths has a lot of what I consider performative Christian pearl clutching. I am pretty sure Church of Dog wouldn't work there. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Hi guys - per request I stickied the legal documents in a post by @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?.  I'm happy to add to that so just give me a shout out in a post if you have more links/documents you want stickied.