No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[Howl]

@Bobology, It will be a two-hour special, so I need to make sure my DVR is set to record both hours!  Here's some info about it from EastIdahoNews.com  It will definitely have some new information. 

Dateline NBC airing new 2-hour program on Daybell case, including first interview with Melani Pawlowski

Melani Cope Boudreaux Pawlowski is Lori Cox's niece, and ex-wife of Brandon Boudreaux, who   "someone" attempted to assassinate in  drive-by shooting last fall.  It may have been Alex Cox (Lori's deceased brother) or maybe not.

Anyway, Melani moved to Rexburg, ID and quickly married Ian Pawlowski after divorcing Brandon. 

Here's what Keith Morrison has to say about Melani.  Read this in the ominous Keith Morrison voice: 

Quote

“Melani essentially appeared to want to present that all is fine,” Morrison says of the interview. “She acted like, ‘I don’t know of any problems whatsoever. We were all just doing our own thing and anything that seemed suspicious was merely a coincidence.’  She’s a sweet, very attractive young woman who looks at you with big eyes and says it’s absolutely the truth. The viewers can look at it and see what they think.”

Keith Morrison thought balloon: "She's lying."

What I think ?  Melani is up to her neck in very, very bad juju skullduggery and is trying to save her own ass.   With Alex dead, she may skate, unless somebody rolls over to save his or herself. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Lori's bond reduction hearing is scheduled for tomorrow, Friday, May 1 at 2pm, Mountain Standard Time, in Rexburgh, ID. 

No spectators are allowed in the courtroom, but EastIdahoNews.com will be allowed to livestream. 

 This is Lori's first appearance in front of the new judge, Michelle Mallard. 

Chad has ditched his lawyer and now Lori's current attorney, Mark Means, is representing them both. 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Howl

[justwatching]

[mention=26665]Bobology[/mention], It will be a two-hour special, so I need to make sure my DVR is set to record both hours!  Here's some info about it from EastIdahoNews.com  It will definitely have some new information. 
Dateline NBC airing new 2-hour program on Daybell case, including first interview with Melani Pawlowski
Melani Cope Boudreaux Pawlowski is Lori Cox's niece, and ex-wife of Brandon Boudreaux, who   "someone" attempted to assassinate in  drive-by shooting last fall.  It may have been Alex Cox (Lori's deceased brother) or maybe not.
Anyway, Melani moved to Rexburg, ID and quickly married Ian Pawlowski after divorcing Brandon. 
Here's what Keith Morrison has to say about Melani.  Read this in the ominous Keith Morrison voice: 

“Melani essentially appeared to want to present that all is fine,” Morrison says of the interview. “She acted like, ‘I don’t know of any problems whatsoever. We were all just doing our own thing and anything that seemed suspicious was merely a coincidence.’  She’s a sweet, very attractive young woman who looks at you with big eyes and says it’s absolutely the truth. The viewers can look at it and see what they think.”

Keith Morrison thought balloon: "She's lying."
What I think ?  Melani is up to her neck in very, very bad juju skullduggery and is trying to save her own ass.   With Alex dead, she may skate, unless somebody rolls over to save his or herself. 

Keith Morrison is in the top 5 of my fantasy bedtime story readers. He’s a fantastic story teller.

[Howl]

7 hours ago, justwatching said:

Keith Morrison is in the top 5 of my fantasy bedtime story readers. He’s a fantastic story teller.

Yes he is!  

What with the hearing AND the two-hour Dateline, should be an interesting day! 

 

[Howl]

Alrighty, then.  The hearing was 2 hours, 45 minutes of my life I'll never get back.  Her attorney went on and on and on and on and on and f**king ON about how some privileged attorney client conversations have been recorded and he's having trouble with meeting with his client and reviewing all of the YUGE amounts of materials obviously trying to make the case that the only way he and his client can meet and make progress is for her to be out of jail, without actually saying that.  Lori's lawyer also brought up some William Barr stuff about courts in the time of coronavirus this and that, even though this was in a state, not Federal court. 

The very patient and tactful judge wasn't having it and did not lower bail.  As she pointed out more than once, Lori's lawyer did not ask the judge to revisit Judge Sullivan's original conclusions so she didn't.  (Judge Sullivan was the judge that Lori + lawyer wanted thrown out. They got their wish, but the same result.) 

 Judge Michelle Mallard is completely calm, quietly sharp as a tack, and has obviously spent a lot of time in the court room dealing with histrionic lawyers.  

She encouraged Lori's attorney (who isn't from Rexburgh) to meet with local attorneys and go over with them how they meet with their clients in the time of coronavirus. 

It's becoming quite apparent that Lori's natural hair color is mousy brown with streaks of gray.  My guess is she'll remain in jail until trial.  

The missing children were never mentioned. 

 

[EmmieJ]

I sometimes watch Crime Talk with Scott Reich and he's been talking about the Lori Vallow case.  He says her lawyer doesn't seem to practice much criminal law, because his website doesn't mention criminal law at all.  Plus, the attorney served a bunch of subpoenas seeking things he's either not yet entitled to, or seeking things from agencies that aren't the actual custodians of the records being sought.  

I'm glad her bail wasn't reduced.  I hope Chad gets arrested soon too.  He's neck deep in this, the scum.

[Howl]

33 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

He says her lawyer doesn't seem to practice much criminal law

The judge mentioned several times that Lori's attorney, Mark Means, did not ask her to review the numerous points laid out by the original judge, so she didn't and therefore had no basis on which to lower bail.  So, my impression, that was a huge error/oversight on the lawyer's part.  Also, he seemed to think that a dramatic presentation meant to convince a jury would work on a judge.  She pretty much picked him apart.  At one point she noted that she'd been in the courtroom for a very long time and had never heard the argument being presented by Means. 

Means was trying to make a very dramatic case (the new findings!!!!!) about an oversight of attorney/client conversations being recorded!!!!!!! However, the prosecutor noted that every time Lori got on the phone, she had to acknowledge that she knew she was being recorded; a statement to that effect is played.   Various other reasons this was not a big a deal as it would seem.  The lawyer has to give the jail his phone number; it's put into their system and calls with that number are automatically not recorded. 

[Howl]

Watched most of the first hour of Dateline last night.  We DVR, so will catch the rest of it today. 

New information: Colby Ryan disclosed that he was sexually abused by his father, Joe Ryan.  I'm not certain if Joe Ryan was his adoptive dad or his bio dad.  Lori's marriage to Charles Vallow brought a lot of financial and emotional stability to the family. When Charles and Lori adopted JJ, he was adored by both Colby and Tylee. 

I think that Charles was deeply in love with Lori. Even after she disappeared for a few months, subsequently hoovered out his bank account and he filed for divorce, I suspect he somehow hoped to salvage the marriage. 

Multiple people interviewed noted that Lori underwent drastic changes in personality, outlook and beliefs after getting involved with Chad's writings and beliefs and subsequently, Chad himself.  Pre Chad, she was an outgoing happy woman, fitness instructor and very devoted mom.  Post Chad? Not so much. 

One woman interviewed who was involved with (I think) Chad's groups Preparing a People and maybe Another Voice of Warning, likened leaving those groups to leaving a cult.  

Several people posting on the Vallow/Daybell topic over at the LDS Freedom Forum are extremely concerned that the world outside the LDS aren't making the distinction between standard LDS beliefs and the wingnut Preparing a People/Another Voice of Warning end times beliefs.  The woman interviewed who left  PAP/AVOW makes that distinction well -- that these are not in anyway mainstream Mormon beliefs, even though many of the people involved are deeply integrated into typical Mormon religious life -- regular church attendees, active in their respective Wards and so forth. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

I'd really enjoy reading a prosecutor's or criminal defense lawyer's critique of Mark Means' presentation yesterday.  I don't think they would be kind. 

Anyway, wrapped up the two-hour Dateline this morning.  My personal opinion?  Melani Cope Boudreaux Pawlowski is lying.  She knows things, probably directly involved.  She's not a good liar.  

Melani moved to Rexburg, ID not long after Lori did.  She claimed that she didn't think too much about not seeing Tylee, because Lori would say she was with friends.  She had zip to say about why JJ wasn't around. 

Ian, who married Melani two weeks after they met, wore a wire for the FBI not long into his new marriage, to see if Melani would say anything about the whereabouts of the children.  Yeah. 

Ian memorialized Melani's discussions about Chad/Lori and their beliefs.  Ian's ex wife found this document on a computer she received as part of their divorce settlement and gave it to police. I'll see if I can find it on line. 

[Chickenbutt]

Another death to add to the already long list......

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-sister-of-lori-vallow-whose-kids-are-missing-died-mysteriously-in-1998-report/ar-BB13tRiX?ocid=msedgntp

In an exclusive report on Court TV Live on Tuesday night, journalist Ashleigh Banfield uncovered the mysterious death of Vallow's older sister, Stacey Lynn Cox Cope, who died suddenly in 1998 at the age of 31. Her cause of death was undetermined.

 

[Howl]

Yes, Stacey Lynn Cox Cope is Melani Cope Boudreaux Pawloski's late mother.  I think Melani was subsequently raised by her dad, but not sure about that. 

Alex Cox, Stacey and Lori's brother, was in the house when she died, and supposedly used her credit card to buy pizza while she was dead in the house.  I haven't been able to substantiate that,  but that tidbit has been floating around forever. 

17 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

I sometimes watch Crime Talk with Scott Reisch and he's been talking about the Lori Vallow case. 

@EmmieJ,  I stumbled across a Scott Reisch youtube a week or two ago!  He was interviewing psychologist  Lena Derhally, author My Daddy is a Hero: How Chris Watts Went from Family Man to Family Killer.  

She introduced the concept of the community psychopath -- psychopaths who live among us, who lead normal lives, who may, but most often don't, commit crimes and it made me think of Lori and Chad. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

Re: Lori's attorney. Sounds like the judge ate his lunch and threw away the styrofoam container. There's a reason people hire criminal defense attorneys. I wonder if he's going to be replaced. 

7 hours ago, Howl said:

The woman interviewed who left  PAP/AVOW makes that distinction well -- that these are not in anyway mainstream Mormon beliefs, even though many of the people involved are deeply integrated into typical Mormon religious life -- regular church attendees, active in their respective Wards and so forth. 

I can see this and it must be frustrating for mainline LDS members, trying to live their normal lives. OTOH, as an outsider, it also seems as though the LDS church has more than its fair share of nutwad offshoots. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

17 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

I can see this and it must be frustrating for mainline LDS members, trying to live their normal lives...it also seems as though the LDS church has more than its fair share of nutwad offshoots. 

As one commenter noted over on the LDS Freedom Forum Daybell thread, Yes, we're a "Peculiar" People, but we don't want to be known as that peculiar.  

17 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Re: Lori's attorney. Sounds like the judge ate his lunch and threw away the styrofoam container.

First, Means asked to remain seated during what turned out to be a lengthy argument.  The judge told him that in that district, the attorney had to stand to make the presentation.  

Further along,  when Means was attempting to make some point referencing the constitution, she whipped out HER copy of the constitution.  At the end,  Means was flop sweat and desperation, the prosecution made a few salient points,  the judge noted (not for the first time) that Means hadn't provided a reason for her to lower bail, Lori shrugged and went back to jail in her generic orange Crocs. 

EastIdahoNews has a good summary of the proceedings:   Lori Vallow Daybell to remain in jail on $1 million bail

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Howl

[EmmieJ]

21 hours ago, Howl said:

 

@EmmieJ,  I stumbled across a Scott Reisch youtube a week or two ago!  He was interviewing psychologist  Lena Derhally, author My Daddy is a Hero: How Chris Watts Went from Family Man to Family Killer.  

She introduced the concept of the community psychopath -- psychopaths who live among us, who lead normal lives, who may, but most often don't, commit crimes and it made me think of Lori and Chad. 

I saw that episode too.  It is fascinating and horrible at the same time.  I

ETA:  I have cousins who are Mormon, and lead law abiding, "normal" lives.  Their children attend public schools, the younger generation moms often work outside the home, one separated from her husband after he was unfaithful with the full support of her family, etc.  They do tend to be insular, their friends primarily made up of Mormons. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by EmmieJ

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

I have cousins who are Mormon, and lead law abiding, "normal" lives.  Their children attend public schools, the younger generation moms often work outside the home, one separated from her husband after he was unfaithful with the full support of her family, etc.  They do tend to be insular, their friends primarily made up of Mormons. 

Growing up, my primary exposure to Mormons was through a family who (I now realize) were probably among the LDS A-listers in terms of culture & the arts -- so, not bigwigs in the church hierarchy but very well-respected by the church as a whole for their contributions to LDS culture. They lived in our midwestern town for many years and were actually very close friends of my UU parents. They were certainly faithful Mormons -- their 4 kids did missions & all of them went to BYU in UT -- but they were incredibly gracious & socially aware individuals, not insular at all. Given all this, I never understood how wack Mormons could be until later in life when I learned about all of the offshoot cults & sects due to media coverage.

[Howl]

A note about Lori's niece Melani who sat for the Dateline interview.   Melani is in a ferocious custody battle with her ex Brandon Beaudreaux.   According to Brandon, she abandoned the family (4 kids) when she began to be involved with Lori's new beliefs and went to live in Idaho.  

If she doesn't disavow that and distance herself from these wing nut beliefs and the rather incredible string of deaths associated with Lori and Chad, including an attempt on her ex's life, she could certainly risk losing custody to Brandon. 

My personal opinion?  Brandon is financially successful.  I suspect Melani would have received a ton of money and assets and maybe a major life insurance payout if the attempt on Brandon's life had been successful.  Shooter? Probably Alex Cox. 

[Chickenbutt]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/cult-mom-lori-vallow-asked-her-doomsday-author-husband-chad-daybell-to-determine-whether-her-children-had-light-or-dark-spirits-before-they-went-missing-newly-uncovered-email-reveals/ar-BB13wcjA?ocid=msedgntp

Cult mom' Lori Vallow asked her soon-to-be husband Chad Daybell to determine whether her two children had 'light or dark spirits' nearly a year before they went missing, a newly uncovered email reveals. 

 

This just keeps getting more odd by the moment. 

[Howl]

Pretty good summary of some of the crazy beliefs around Melani, Ian, Brandon et al. and how Ian found out about the Preparing a People beliefs, zombies, dark spirits, Oh My!  

Zombies and Cain’s dark 50: Court documents offer a look at what those close to Lori Vallow have to say

I keep thinking I have a pretty good handle on all the players, have opinions on who did what and who knew what when, and then it all unravels.  

Also, Melani Cope Boudreaux Pawlowski is pregnant with (presumably) Ian's child. 

[Chickenbutt]

Report says Alex Cox died of natural causes. 

The Maricopa County, Arizona Medical Examiner concluded Cox died of a blood clot in his lung and heart

disease.

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/uncle-of-missing-idaho-kids-died-of-natural-causes-autopsy-report-says

Copy of the report

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/05/read-the-medical-examiner-and-toxicology-reports-on-alex-cox/

Edited May 8, 2020 by Chickenbutt
Added Medical Examiner Report

[Howl]

Dang, a 51-year-old guy with heart disease, blood clots in his lungs, no drugs.  He's been cremated, so this is it.  

If Tammy's 2nd autopsy has no adverse findings,  will Chad skate? 

[Chickenbutt]

@Howl I can't even begin to predict what the hell is going to happen. Nothing makes a bit of sense in this whole mess. The local news interviewed Lori's mom and sister yesterday.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/investigations/cbs_5_investigates/lori-vallow-received-threats-and-is-protecting-her-children-according-to-mom-sister/article_819d590c-90cc-11ea-9ab1-6f6f76554a6a.html

 

 

[Howl]

12 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

@Howl I can't even begin to predict what the hell is going to happen. Nothing makes a bit of sense in this whole mess.

I know, right? Long ago sports announcer: "This game has more turns than a barrel full of snakes!"  

An earthquake in SLC a few months ago knocked off Angel Maroni's trumpet and a plague is currently ravaging the country -- what if Preparing a People is right about the July 20, 2020 thing?   (I keed, I keed!)

[Bobology]

I've done a half-hearted search of narcan and the possibility of its abuse. I cannot find any useful info that I can understand. Is it possible for an autopsy to find narcan but not opioids in the deceased's system? Is there a reason someone would take narcan as a stand alone drug, and if so for what benefits or high? There is another treatment drug that can be given for opioid overdose for which narcan is also sometimes given in order to prevent abuse of the other drug (long name and I can't remember it. Did the release of Alex's autopsy findings omit any other drugs found in him?

In other words, what are the possible reasons Alex would have had narcan but no other drugs in his system at his time of death?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Bobology
clarification

[Howl]

From the EastIdahoNews.com article: 

Quote

The medical examiner performed extensive tests including a toxicology report, which showed caffeine and a drug called Narcan in his system. First responders give Narcan to non-responsive people to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose.

It sounds as though Narcan showed up because it was administered pre-emptively by the first responders; it wasn't anything Alex was taking on his own. 

ETA: My acupuncture lady has noted more than once that this is why men die, while women get sick, go to the doctor and (usually) get well.  Alex reportedly had chest pain and shortness of breath for the week before he died,  but didn't seem to have bothered to get to a doctor STAT.  

Also, I have no idea what Alex did for the last week or two of his life, but my vague recollection is that he was a truck driver by trade, and periodically drove from AZ to Arkansas. 

Also, could he have possibly been driving between Rexburgh, ID and Phoenix (Gilbert) AZ?

Sitting for long periods of time can be a triggering event for blood clots. 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Howl

[Bobology]

Thank you, @Howl for the clarification. I somehow missed that detail. Now I'm really glad I didn't spend too much time down that rabbit hole looking at narcan on google.